2014 NFL Regular Season, Week 16

[miami_fan]

Hmmm...

Chicago Bears to start Jimmy Clausen over Jay Cutler this week - ESPN Chicago

[Lathum]

Sounds like Tresman going scorched earth on the way out...

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Hmmm...

Chicago Bears to start Jimmy Clausen over Jay Cutler this week - ESPN Chicago

Dear Chicago,

Thanks for letting us into the playoffs.

Sincerely,

The Lions.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by Matthean

Dear Chicago,

Thanks for letting us into the playoffs.

Sincerely,

The Lions.

Even with Chicago imploding I think it's way too early to rule out a Lion's collapse.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

Even with Chicago imploding I think it's way too early to rule out a Lion's collapse.

Yeah. I still remember that game from a few years ago when the Packers started Matt Flynn. Everyone thought the Lions would roll, but Flynn ended up having that incredible day that earned him millions.

[Matthean]

But that was at Green Bay so I'm sure they'll be fine.

[Thomkal]

maybe this will wake him up and realize he might never be a starter again in the NFL if he doesn't shake off his demons on the field. Or not

[JAG]

Originally Posted by Matthean

Dear Chicago,

Thanks for letting us into the playoffs.

Sincerely,

The Lions.

If you've watched the Bears lately, you'd know that it really doesn't matter who the QB is, this is a team that's a lot worse than their record. I sent my Bears friend my condolences after watching them play a couple weeks in a row.

[RainMaker]

When your defense can't stop anyone and your special teams makes a few blunders each game, it doesn't matter who the QB is.

[stevew]

Is this the worst primetime game in NFL history? Jags/Titans square off in a UFL matchup.

[Solecismic]

Since my wife grew up in the Chicago area, we watch the Bears whenever they're on, which is a lot. Cutler is not the issue here. The offensive line has regressed to a 2012 level, the defense is weak and, on Monday, Alshon Jeffrey looked like Jeffrey Tambor. My guess is that it's Trestman showing support for Kramer, now that there's no question Trestman will be unemployed in a couple of weeks.

This is an opportunity for Cutler to take the high road, keep quiet before and after Trestman is fired, and make a point of making friends with the new staff the minute there's a hire.

[RainMaker]

I think it's the organization trying to save face by placing all the blame on Cutler.

[miked]

I guess Jay Cutler should have playing defense and tackling people. Watching that Monday night game I was amazed at how many defenders took bad angles or just couldn't bring anyone down on first contact.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by stevew

Is this the worst primetime game in NFL history? Jags/Titans square off in a UFL matchup.

Yeah kinda feel sad for Jim/Phil having to announce this one and make it sound important and quality football-whomever scheduled this game for Thursday game should be fired

[Solecismic]

In fairness, there are many who thought Jake Locker could break out this year, and Blake Bortles was the first quarterback taken, so there's often some excitement there.

Odds say there's going to be one featured night game like this every once in a while. I'm sure we could find one if we looked.

[Kodos]

Could Jim Harbaugh end up coaching the Bears?

[RainMaker]

There is zero chance they'll spend that kind of money and cede that kind of control. They'll just hire some second tier coordinator.

[albionmoonlight]

I follow the NFL pretty closely. But until the moment Gruden said on Monday Night, "I'd put Jimmy Clausen in to see what you have there," I had no idea Clausen was still employed as an NFL quarterback.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

I follow the NFL pretty closely. But until the moment Gruden said on Monday Night, "I'd put Jimmy Clausen in to see what you have there," I had no idea Clausen was still employed as an NFL quarterback.

Me either.

[BishopMVP]

Worth noting his new contract is not quite as bad for the Bears as it first appears.

Originally Posted by http://grantland.com/the-triangle/the-possibly-intriguing-nfl-qb-trade-market/

The Jay Cutler deal serves as the quintessential example of this type of contract. While Cutler received $54 million guaranteed as part of his seven-year deal, the typical quarterback contract has most of that money paid up front as part of a signing bonus that is then spread across the length of the contract for cap purposes. Cutler’s deal has no such signing bonus. Instead, the Bears basically guaranteed the first three years of Cutler’s base salaries, which combine to hit that $54 million figure.2

Guaranteed base salaries make a player virtually uncuttable. If the Bears wanted to cut Cutler this offseason, they wouldn’t save a dime on his $16.5 million cap figure. In fact, since they’ve already restructured the deal once (converting part of Cutler’s 2014 base salary into a bonus), the remaining bonuses on the deal would accelerate onto Chicago’s 2015 cap, meaning the Bears would owe Cutler $19.5 million to not play for them. Even if they’re wildly frustrated with Cutler, that’s not going to happen.

Trading a player like that, though, wouldn’t be a problem. The Bears could deal Cutler, and the base salaries would become the responsibility of the new team. Chicago would only have the $4 million from that restructuring bonus accelerate onto its 2015 cap, meaning it would save $12.5 million in 2015 without owing Cutler a penny more in 2016 and beyond.

Maybe a trade back to his college state and the Titans if they don't get Mariota/don't want to roll the dice on Winston? (Whisenhunt loves him some big-armed QB's!) Houston with Bill O'Brien? Heck, I'd give Dan Snyder a call and see if you could basically do an RG3 for Cutler swap. Gives Snyder a "proven" QB and you potentially a franchise one.

[JPhillips]

I think Cutler is going to end up on the Jets.

And it will be a disaster for everyone.

[QuikSand]

So, a one-off fantasy football observation from a guy who once had a few choice things to say about one Jimmy Claussen:

Originally Posted by QuikSand

I'm not saying I am sold on Cam. Not at all, honestly. I'm just saying that no NFL team should be looking at those guys and concluding anything at all about the future of their team's QB position. If you don't think you have a build-around QB in this draft, fine, go somewhere else. But for crying out loud, you don't decide you're set at QB because you have pocket lint like Jimmy Claussen already on hand. I'm pretty much with Blackadar above.

Here I now sit in a fantasy football title game, and (ironically) Cam Newton's injury has forced me to the waiver wire to pick up a QB to start this week (for context, it's a 2xQB league). While my opponent, who had the lower seed and therefore waiver advantage, rightly scooped up everyone who appeared to be available, the late news on Cutler left me with an option.

I am now COUNTING on the guy I once (rightfully, I think time has judged) called "pocket lint" for money and prestige that I actually care about. What hath god wrought?

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

In fairness, there are many who thought Jake Locker could break out this year, and Blake Bortles was the first quarterback taken, so there's often some excitement there.

Odds say there's going to be one featured night game like this every once in a while. I'm sure we could find one if we looked.

I agree with the first part-which is why this should have been an early season TV game. I'd like to see the later in the season games to get the "swap" or whatever they are calling it to get teams that are least in the playoff hunt.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

In fairness, there are many who thought Jake Locker could break out this year, and Blake Bortles was the first quarterback taken, so there's often some excitement there.

Odds say there's going to be one featured night game like this every once in a while. I'm sure we could find one if we looked.

Im positive that I said both of those teams would surprise people this season.

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

I think Cutler is going to end up on the Jets.

And it will be a disaster for everyone.

Except Patriots fans.

Originally Posted by QuikSand

What hath god wrought?

Karma will get you every time.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

So, a one-off fantasy football observation from a guy who once had a few choice things to say about one Jimmy Claussen:



Here I now sit in a fantasy football title game, and (ironically) Cam Newton's injury has forced me to the waiver wire to pick up a QB to start this week (for context, it's a 2xQB league). While my opponent, who had the lower seed and therefore waiver advantage, rightly scooped up everyone who appeared to be available, the late news on Cutler left me with an option.

I am now COUNTING on the guy I once (rightfully, I think time has judged) called "pocket lint" for money and prestige that I actually care about. What hath god wrought?

So what you're saying is...you're in a real pickle.

Spoiler

[HomerSimpson98]

Surely there are better waiver wire options than that ostritch ass monkey.

[Bobble]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Worth noting his new contract is not quite as bad for the Bears as it first appears.

Maybe a trade back to his college state and the Titans if they don't get Mariota/don't want to roll the dice on Winston? (Whisenhunt loves him some big-armed QB's!) Houston with Bill O'Brien? Heck, I'd give Dan Snyder a call and see if you could basically do an RG3 for Cutler swap. Gives Snyder a "proven" QB and you potentially a franchise one.

But if a team trades for Cutler, they take on that 16.5 mil, right? Who would do that with the way he's played?

[miked]

Can NFL teams give money toward salary or is that verboten? I understand it would still count toward the cap, but could a team ask for 10M to offset how much he's owed?

[flere-imsaho]

stevew just won the thread

[albionmoonlight]

I might be crazy, but I think that Cutler on Buffalo or Houston or Kansas City is a playoff team. Based on the Grantland analysis of Cutler's contract, I'd be interested in trading for him for a mid-round pick if I were one of those teams.

If, however, the Bears want a 2nd rounder or higher for him, then I'd say no. But a 4th rounder to take his salary and karma off the Bear's books? Sure.

It would be kind of like an NBA trade. Cutler's contract actually makes the whole Cutler package less valuable than it would be otherwise.

And, if you are the Bears? Fire Trestman, trade Cutler, and try to pick up a young guy with upside (Chase Daniel? Austin Davis?) and figure that your fans will be so happy to be rid of Cutler/Trestman that you've bought a couple seasons of grace period.

[Logan]

The $16.5MM a team would pay Cutler of course sounds like a lot, but you have to remember...quarterbacks are expensive. Even ones that aren't very good. And not only are QBs expensive from a salary standpoint, they are expensive to acquire if not in FA. Sport trac is usually really good with future salary information, so using 2015 cap hits...Cutler's number is #12 in the league and that's behind Kaep ($17.2MM), Bradford ($16.6MM) and a little above Alex Smith ($15.6MM), Flacco ($14.55MM), and Palmer ($14.5MM).

If you're a team with a huge hole at QB, plenty of cap space, and either aren't sold on a 1st round QB or won't be in a position to acquire one of them, is grabbing Cutler for a 4th that terrible of an idea? Someone has to play the position. Would you rather pay $7MM to someone like Kyle Orton (Hoyer?) or go after one of the other "who the hell knows?" FA options like Jake Locker or Ponder?

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

I might be crazy, but I think that Cutler on Buffalo or Houston or Kansas City is a playoff team. Based on the Grantland analysis of Cutler's contract, I'd be interested in trading for him for a mid-round pick if I were one of those teams.

If, however, the Bears want a 2nd rounder or higher for him, then I'd say no. But a 4th rounder to take his salary and karma off the Bear's books? Sure.

It would be kind of like an NBA trade. Cutler's contract actually makes the whole Cutler package less valuable than it would be otherwise.

And, if you are the Bears? Fire Trestman, trade Cutler, and try to pick up a young guy with upside (Chase Daniel? Austin Davis?) and figure that your fans will be so happy to be rid of Cutler/Trestman that you've bought a couple seasons of grace period.

Isn't KC a playoff team currently without Cutler heh heh?

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Isn't KC a playoff team currently without Cutler heh heh?

Nope, KC is one game out right now.

[Abe Sargent]

Alright, everything is set up for my Jaguars to win tonight baby

[Abe Sargent]

Oh, and Cutler for RG3, strait up. That's money

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

I might be crazy, but I think that Cutler on Buffalo or Houston or Kansas City is a playoff team. Based on the Grantland analysis of Cutler's contract, I'd be interested in trading for him for a mid-round pick if I were one of those teams.

I wonder if the Bears might have some success if they tried to run the ball some instead of letting secondaries sit in wait and defensive lines tee-off on Cutler?

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

I wonder if the Bears might have some success if they tried to run the ball some instead of letting secondaries sit in wait and defensive lines tee-off on Cutler?

On Thanksgiving, the Bears had Forte attempt a total of 5 runs against the Lions.

[bhlloy]

Bowl season gets started tonight with the Toilet Bowl from Jacksonville. Think everyone is excited about this matchup

[stevew]

Fwiw pocket lint has the talent out there to back into a 250/3/1 type of game. Never underestimate someone playing for their career. Could be a Wade Wilson 2.0 scenario.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

Oh, and Cutler for RG3, strait up. That's money

Everyone wants this to happen. Well not fans of Washington or Chicago.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

On Thanksgiving, the Bears had Forte attempt a total of 5 runs against the Lions.

To be fair, it seems like most teams abandon the run vs the Lions. Even the Pats, who were in the game/leading had only 12 rushing attempts until their last drive.

Bobble - fwiw its a flawed stat, but Jay Cutler has the highest QB rating of his career this year, 89.5. He's Andy Dalton, Joe Flacco, Eli Manning, Matt Stafford... $16.5m/y fits right into that range.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

To be fair, it seems like most teams abandon the run vs the Lions. Even the Pats, who were in the game/leading had only 12 rushing attempts until their last drive.

Bobble - fwiw its a flawed stat, but Jay Cutler has the highest QB rating of his career this year, 89.5. He's Andy Dalton, Joe Flacco, Eli Manning, Matt Stafford... $16.5m/y fits right into that range.

For comparison, PFF has him 31st, sandwiched between Austin Davis and Jake Locker.

QBR, which I like quite a bit as far as trying to put a single number on the position goes, has him 22nd between Ryan Fitzpatrick and Cam Newton.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Atocep

For comparison, PFF has him 31st, sandwiched between Austin Davis and Jake Locker.

QBR, which I like quite a bit as far as trying to put a single number on the position goes, has him 22nd between Ryan Fitzpatrick and Cam Newton.

FO has Cutler at 14th/21st, (just above Russell Wilson if we're cherrypicking), so PFF is an outlier. I've never paid for their stats so while they can be fun to look at idk how good their methodology is. I think he's 15th-20th in the league, you might think worse, but either way I don't think Jay Cutler has played any worse this year than he did leading up to signing that contract, the team just fell apart around him. And I'm glad my team isn't paying any of them, but I'd pay $16m to Cutler before I did to Dalton or Kaepernick

BTW, funny note. If you want to drop the number of attempts to qualify to just under 100 Derek Anderson is #1 in QBR. I guess only starting games against Tampa Bay helps!

[weegeebored]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

Cutler is not the issue here.

No offense, but I likely watch more Bears games than you and Cutler is an issue. Is he the only one? No. The entire team is a hot mess. But it's crazy to absolve this guy. I hope (pray) that there are GMs out there with your perspective who think Cutler is a good quarterback and may still have "potential". QBs over 30 no longer have potential nor can they be "fixed", especially those with nine years as a starter. If they suck, they suck. Cutler has enough suckage in him to be a s**t quarterback and a coach killer. Watch the tape.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

FO has Cutler at 14th/21st, (just above Russell Wilson if we're cherrypicking), so PFF is an outlier. I've never paid for their stats so while they can be fun to look at idk how good their methodology is. I think he's 15th-20th in the league, you might think worse, but either way I don't think Jay Cutler has played any worse this year than he did leading up to signing that contract, the team just fell apart around him. And I'm glad my team isn't paying any of them, but I'd pay $16m to Cutler before I did to Dalton or Kaepernick

BTW, funny note. If you want to drop the number of attempts to qualify to just under 100 Derek Anderson is #1 in QBR. I guess only starting games against Tampa Bay helps!

I think 15-20 is a fair assessment. I've defended Cutler quite a bit in the past, but I'm done. Watching him this year has been painful. Body language doesn't really bother me. It's the fact that he has a coach that's proven he can teach quarterbacks the position very well and Cutler has tuned him out after 1 year. He's a guy that wants to drop back and throw to the open guy. He doesn't want someone teaching him the mental aspects of the position.

If Trestman is gone then Emery needs to clean house and get the Lovie guys out of the lockerroom, especially Briggs. Too many defensive guys still pouting about Lovie being fired.

[Bobble]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Bobble - fwiw its a flawed stat, but Jay Cutler has the highest QB rating of his career this year, 89.5. He's Andy Dalton, Joe Flacco, Eli Manning, Matt Stafford... $16.5m/y fits right into that range.

Just for the sake of talking, wouldn't you take every one of those guys before Cutler? And pretty easily?

Dalton - theoretically still learning so he could be better than what he's currently showing us.

Flacco - Superbowl, no real baggage.

Manning - Superbowls. Last name buys him a bit of a pass.

Stafford - Ability. Younger than Cutler.

Right now, Cutler has "loser" and "doesn't give a crap" smeared all over him. How do you sell that to a fanbase or his teammates unless you get one hell of a bargain on him?

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by weegeebored

I hope (pray) that there are GMs out there with your perspective who think Cutler is a good quarterback and may still have "potential". QBs over 30 no longer have potential nor can they be "fixed", especially those with nine years as a starter. If they suck, they suck. Cutler has enough suckage in him to be a s**t quarterback and a coach killer. Watch the tape.

He doesn't need to "have potential" or "be fixed". He's a perfectly competent and very consistent player who has had a QB rating between 85.7 and 89.5 in 7 of his 9 seasons (and went 10-5 in one of his two lower ones). He is 44-37 as a Bears starter. If Joe Flacco and Eli Manning can win Super Bowls, then so can Cutler in the right organization (and with the right amount of luck in the playoffs.) I don't think the relationship with the Bears is broken, but if they decide they need to trade him even after firing Tresstman and that OC there'll be plenty of GM's willing to trade a Day 2 pick for him. Good luck with the next Rex Grossman, Kyle Orton, Cade McNown, etc.

[weegeebored]

Originally Posted by Atocep

If Trestman is gone then Emery needs to clean house and get the Lovie guys out of the lockerroom, especially Briggs. Too many defensive guys still pouting about Lovie being fired.

If Emery gets a pass then only part of the problem has been eliminated. He signed Cutler. He hired Trestman. His FA signings are mediocre -- at best. He's terrible with cap management. He's had one good pick in each of his drafts -- and a lot of bad ones. I don't disagree about the pouting, but didn't Emery push for Mel Tucker, a guy with questionable defensive coaching skills?

As painful as this is for me to say...er...type, if you're not going to blow the whole thing up, then save the money and keep what you have. Half a fix is tantamount to no fix.

[weegeebored]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

He doesn't need to "have potential" or "be fixed". He's a perfectly competent and very consistent player who has had a QB rating between 85.7 and 89.5 in 7 of his 9 seasons (and went 10-5 in one of his two lower ones). He is 44-37 as a Bears starter. If Joe Flacco and Eli Manning can win Super Bowls, then so can Cutler in the right organization (and with the right amount of luck in the playoffs.) I don't think the relationship with the Bears is broken, but if they decide they need to trade him even after firing Tresstman and that OC there'll be plenty of GM's willing to trade a Day 2 pick for him. Good luck with the next Rex Grossman, Kyle Orton, Cade McNown, etc.

I like stats as much as the next guy, but they lie. Cutler doesn't pass the eye test -- at all. And a perfectly competent player doesn't lead the league in turnovers and have the highest salary. Not in my world, maybe yours. And how many OCs will he have gone through in his career? It's unlikely, statistically speaking, that all of them were incompetent. The one constant was Cutler.