College Football Week 13 (Rivalry Week) discussion - Page 8

Chief Rum · 11-29-2009, 05:23 PM

I'm not going to get into it with USC fans, because I already know what the reaction will be. I don't see a point in going down that road.

I think Neuheisel had the right to call the timeout, because he believes the same as Pete Carroll, keep competing to the end. And for that reason, I don't really feel too done up about Carroll going deep the next play; he's competing, too, and Neuheisel should have expected that.

Now, if Carroll were a classy coach, he still wouldn't have done that. He, however, has proven on a number of occasions that he is pretty much the epitome of the classless coach, so it's on Neuheisel, IMO, for not recognizing that Carroll would be completely to form on that next play.

So I don't really blame Carroll as much as Neuheisel.

My big problem was after that, the dancing, the taunting, moving onto the field with their celebration. IMO, that was the part where Carroll erred, not the on field play call, but how he chose to allow (hell, he led them) his team to celebrate the way it did, and the game's not even over. That was utterly and completely shitty and that stuff doesn't belong in college football.

Unfortunately, I am sure the USC fans here will just continue to defend that and say "winners win" and whatever, and I don't have much to say, because, hey, they won. I'm not them; if they're comfortable having a guy like that as their coach, the ends (winning) justifying the means (classless team and program), then that's their decision to make.

Regardless, it will definitely make for an interesting game next year. UCLA had its chances in this game, very winnable, but they just didn't do it. Kudos to USC for their opportunistic D and making the big plays when they needed to.

FTR, if anyone was wondering I was avoiding this discussion, I just finished watching the game DVR'd. Had to work last night late, and I had to try like hell to avoid seeing a score or results or anything until I got a chance to watch this afternoon.

Good luck the rest of the way, USC and in the recruiting season.

CU Tiger · 11-29-2009, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcchief19

Missouri's were a one-time only, and I think the rest are too. They are all part of a Nike campaign to introduce their new "Combat" line of jerseys that are lighterweight and whatnot. There were 10 schools involved (all Nike clients) and Nike decked them out with special unis and designs along with a nice cash payment -- supposedly a $100,000 per school.

Each uniform had a "slogan." Missouri's slogan was "Beast Mode," which was a phrase the team was using since the summer. Now we don't know whether Nike picked up on the phrase for the uniform or Nike gave them the phrase. It's unclear.

Missouri's unis were supposed to be inspired by the B-2 stealth bombers that are based in Missouri. I'll admit they did remind me of the B-2. I just didn't like the grey on black and the lack of gold.

It actually ended up being 11.
Clemson held out until two weeks ago as they negotiated with another uni maker(allegedly) and refused to wear any other helmet. They finally re upped with nike for 5 years and wore theirs yesterday. All in all I thought they were hideous, and found it real funny that several players including Spiller refused to wear the special edition cleats.

Crapshoot · 11-29-2009, 05:27 PM

I don't have a dog in this fight, but hell: CR - this is somehow Carroll's fault? Why take that timeout for any reason other than to be a douche? USC was willing to play the game out - when UCLA then calls a timeout, it takes a ridiculous amount of gall to call USC classless at that point.

kcchief19 · 11-29-2009, 05:27 PM

Catching up on all my reading and mega-posting ... my throat is still soar from yelling at the game yesterday. You have the throw out the records when rivals play and that's what the Border War was yesterday. Great game again, and great atmosphere playing at Arrowhead. Just glad we won.

However, the sponsors of the Biletnikoff Award need to announce they are suspending voting and just give the trophy to Danario Alexander. These idiots have a "system" where they announce their "watch list" before they season and if you aren't on the watch list you can't be a "semifinalist." If you aren't a semifinalist you can't be a "finalist." So Danario Alexander is not on the official ballot. And Mike Williams from Syracuse is.

Alexander has simply been dominant this year and the last half of the season. He leads the nation in yardage and is second in receptions. There have been seven 200-yard receiving games in FBS this year and he has three of them -- no one else has more than one. In his last four games he's gone over 200 yards three times and went for 173 the fourth time. He has 943 yards in the last five games.

Shipley is going to win it and think about this for "rivalry" games. Shipley had 10 catches for 86 yards and no TDs against OU and OSU. Alexander had 7 catches for 181 and a TD against KU -- in the THIRD QUARTER ALONE.

As for comparable competition, Alexander had 15 catches for 254 and a TD against OSU and Texas.

Chief Rum · 11-29-2009, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

I don't have a dog in this fight, but hell: CR - this is somehow Carroll's fault? Why take that timeout for any reason other than to be a douche? USC was willing to play the game out - when UCLA then calls a timeout, it takes a ridiculous amount of gall to call USC classless at that point.

Crap, please re-read my post. You must have missed the part where I blamed the in-game stuff more on Neuheisel than Carroll. If you need me to re-post and bold for you, I will.

Crapshoot · 11-29-2009, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Crap, please re-read my post. You must have missed the part where I blamed the in-game stuff more on Neuheisel than Carroll. If you need me to re-post and bold for you, I will.

I don't think I missed the part where you essentially accused Carrol of being classless for doing it. Perhaps this part was it:

Now, if Carroll were a classy coach, he still wouldn't have done that. He, however, has proven on a number of occasions that he is pretty much the epitome of the classless coach, so it's on Neuheisel, IMO, for not recognizing that Carroll would be completely to form on that next play.

Chief Rum · 11-29-2009, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

I don't think I missed the part where you essentially accused Carrol of being classless for doing it. Perhaps this part was it:

Now, if Carroll were a classy coach, he still wouldn't have done that. He, however, has proven on a number of occasions that he is pretty much the epitome of the classless coach, so it's on Neuheisel, IMO, for not recognizing that Carroll would be completely to form on that next play.

But you apparently did miss this part.

So I don't really blame Carroll as much as Neuheisel.

Crapshoot · 11-29-2009, 05:43 PM

We're going to have to agree to disagree on that one.

PS - I spent Thanksgiving hanging out with my buddy (and his girlfriend, who is a big UCLA fan); some of my best friends here are USC alumni. None of you people have anything good to say about the other school, let alone the football team.

MrBug708 · 11-29-2009, 05:45 PM

Most of the UCLA fans posts are directed at Carroll being a douche for his temper tantrum after the Stanford game and then pulling this. Most UCLA fans think that Rick was stupid to call the TO. I dont blame Carroll for going for it, I hope Rick would do the same thing to USC.

Blade6119 · 11-29-2009, 05:45 PM

Your both right here...you called Carroll a a massive douche who has no class, but said its Neuheisel's fault because he should have known that...so your both going to win this arguement

digamma · 11-29-2009, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

It actually ended up being 11.
Clemson held out until two weeks ago as they negotiated with another uni maker(allegedly) and refused to wear any other helmet. They finally re upped with nike for 5 years and wore theirs yesterday. All in all I thought they were hideous, and found it real funny that several players including Spiller refused to wear the special edition cleats.

I had wondered about the Clemson helmets. I didn't like the unis either, but then again, I don't like much Clemson garb.

Cuckoo · 11-29-2009, 05:50 PM

I don't have a dog in this fight either. I wouldn't have done it (the game was over, and USC was taking a knee), but I can find a way to rationalize Neuheisel's timeout in the category of playing to the end. I can't find a way to rationalize throwing deep other than rubbing it in.

Chief Rum · 11-29-2009, 05:51 PM

And, I'm right, if Carroll was a classy coach, he wouldn't have done that. You know that, too. Harbaugh, your dog in the conference, IIRC, was just as classless two weeks ago, but I didn't think that was a big deal either, because Carroll has run up the score on many teams on a number of occasions over the past few years, so he has no right to complain.

Turnabout here is also true. Neuheisel made the decision to call that timeout, and it was a decision with consequences. He made it, IMO, purely for form. If he didn't call the timeouts, people on his own sidelines (and coaches from other schools in recruits' living rooms) would say he gave up, he doesn't compete to the end. So Neuheisel decided to call that timeout; very much a longshot down two scores with 52 seconds left, but crazier stuff has happened. But Neuheisel screwed up, because he didn't look long range and recognize that he was going up against Carroll. Carroll has shown he only reads this sort of thing one way. IMO, it was obvious Carroll would throw it long after that timeout and Neuheisel should have known it. That doesn't mean Carroll isn't classless; he has long established that. It means Neuheisel was dumb for not taking into consideration what Carroll is and prepping his defense for it.

So the whole on field thing is pretty much on Neuheisel. I can't blame Carroll for being true to his nature and throwing that pass. It's what he does. He competes to the end. If anything, Carroll's decision to kneel prior to the timeout was an amazing nod against his form. Kinda like the good Carroll angel over his shoulder finally got to him after all these years. And then Neuheisel called the timeout, Carroll's competitive spirit took over and the bad Carroll angel on his other shoulder had its way again.

Kinda like playing with a lion, you know? Neuheisel made a decision that played with the lion, and he didn't make the proper preparations for what was going to result from that. Pretty dumb.

Eaglesfan27 · 11-29-2009, 05:51 PM

CR, you should know that the moshing towards the end of the game has happened every year for the last 3 or 4. Pete kept his team under control and on their side of the field. Slick Rick couldn't do that as it was his team that was trying to turn it into a brawl by crossing over the field.

I'm still ecstatic about Pete sticking it to Rick for calling that timeout. Pete tried to end the game in a classy manner, but Rick wanted to keep competing so Pete did. Recruits are reportedly thrilled with how things went as well. Mods are clearly saying that Tony Jefferson has decommitted from UCLA, and Jefferson was seen giving the Victory sign and wanting to come down from where he was. I think this weekend restrengthened Dillon Baxter's committment as well and I wouldn't be surprised if USC gets 2 of the 4 OOS recruits they were hosting last night as well as a few of the other in-state guys who were there.

Eaglesfan27 · 11-29-2009, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

If anything, Carroll's decision to kneel prior to the timeout was an amazing nod against his form. Kinda like the good Carroll angel over his shoulder finally got to him after all these years. And then Neuheisel called the timeout, Carroll's competitive spirit took over and the bad Carroll angel on his other shoulder had its way again.

That is such a crock of shit. Carroll has taken knees inside the opponents 5 multiple times over the last few years rather than score late in the game. It's not his fault if his 2nd, 3rd, and 4th string running backs have been scoring early in the 4th quarter.

Chief Rum · 11-29-2009, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

We're going to have to agree to disagree on that one.

PS - I spent Thanksgiving hanging out with my buddy (and his girlfriend, who is a big UCLA fan); some of my best friends here are USC alumni. None of you people have anything good to say about the other school, let alone the football team.

Heh, heh, I can see that being true in some circles (hell, most

).

I personally have tried to step back from that. I try not to judge the school anymore or the fans or teams in general, because I know too many people with USC ties who I know are good people and USC is not a bad school (and I know UCLA people who are jerks, just as many as on the other side).

That said, I do call out individuals when they're dumb and classless, so I have no qualms about pointing out either issue with Neuheisel and Carroll, respectively.

Chief Rum · 11-29-2009, 05:55 PM

EF27, I'm not getting into it with you. I already know what you'll say before you say it. I gave up hope of you trying to meet me in a middle ground a long time ago. Say what you want, I'm not going to bother to respond past this post.

MrBug708 · 11-29-2009, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

That is such a crock of shit. Carroll has taken knees inside the opponents 5 multiple times over the last few years rather than score late in the game. It's not his fault if his 2nd, 3rd, and 4th string running backs have been scoring early in the 4th quarter.

How can you take a knee yet manage to score?

Do you even believe what you write about Carroll or is there a script?

Eaglesfan27 · 11-29-2009, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrBug708

How can you take a knee yet manage to score TD's with the RB's?

Do you even believe what you write about Carroll or is there a script?

I said he has had the team take a knee late in the 4th quarter, such as under 2 minutes. No one takes a knee early in the 4th quarter when the backup RB's are doing most of their damage.

Chief Rum · 11-29-2009, 05:58 PM

Here's what's lost in all the post-game/end-game hubbubb:

UCLA went toe to toe with USC at the Coliseum and gave them all the Trojans could handle. Anyone who didn't watch this game will see 28-7 and not realize just how perilously close and even this game was for almost the entire game.

USC doesn't have as much room to play with in front of their rivals as they used to.

Eaglesfan27 · 11-29-2009, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

EF27, I'm not getting into it with you. I already know what you'll say before you say it. I gave up hope of you trying to meet me in a middle ground a long time ago. Say what you want, I'm not going to bother to respond past this post.

Give some good specific examples of Pete running up the score, rather than making unfounded claims. He called almost all running plays when the team was destroying Washington State a year or two ago. He pulled way off the pedal in the 2nd half against Penn State in the Rose Bowl last year. He's generally pulled off the throttle too early the last few years, rather than run it up.

Chief Rum · 11-29-2009, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Give some good specific examples of Pete running up the score, rather than making unfounded claims. He called almost all running plays when the team was destroying Washington State a year or two ago. He pulled way off the pedal in the 2nd half against Penn State in the Rose Bowl last year. He's generally pulled off the throttle too early the last few years, rather than run it up.

I told you, EF, you're blinded by your bias. There is no point in discussing this with you, so I'm not going to do it.

Eaglesfan27 · 11-29-2009, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Here's what's lost in all the post-game/end-game hubbubb:

UCLA went toe to toe with USC at the Coliseum and gave them all the Trojans could handle. Anyone who didn't watch this game will see 28-7 and not realize just how perilously close and even this game was for almost the entire game.

USC doesn't have as much room to play with in front of their rivals as they used to.

They only lost by 21 to the worst USC team in the last 8 years. The gap is definitely closing.

Chief Rum · 11-29-2009, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

They only lost by 21 to the worst USC team in the last 8 years. The gap is definitely closing.

Ha ha, someone sounds scared.

MrBug708 · 11-29-2009, 06:17 PM

Tony Jefferson was already decommitted. He does need to grow some thicker skin though...at least to play for Carroll

Eaglesfan27 · 11-29-2009, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I told you, EF, you're blinded by your bias. There is no point in discussing this with you, so I'm not going to do it.

Give some good concrete examples.

Here I'll even do the work for you. In 2008, USC's biggest wins were against Virginia who they beat 52-7. I might give you that one. Pete had Mustain throw a pass late, but Mustain was the #2 QB at the time and he wanted to get him a bit of game experience. Still, I could see an argument there.

USC beat Ohio State 35-3. USC almost exclusively ran in the 2nd half against them and didn't score in the 4th quarter.

USC did pass late against Oregon after losing the previous week to Oregon State. They beat Oregon 44-10 and again Mustain threw a TD late. I guess you could make the argument he ran it up there.

The next week, they beat Arizona State 28-0. Pete didn't throw it at all in the 4th quarter and USC didn't score.

They beat Washington State 69-0 the next week, but they didn't throw it once in the 2nd half except early in the 3rd quarter. The 4th string HB had a few TD's in the 4th quarter, but I remember that one very well and USC was running the same basic running play over and over.

They barely beat Arizona before beating Washington 56-0. Again, there was only 1 pass the entire 2nd half. They only scored 2 rushing TD's in the 2nd half again with their 4th string HB's.

They only beat Cal by 2 TD's.

Stanford they only beat 45-23 and it was a rushing TD to help put the game out of the reach at the end.

Maybe, you can make a case for them running it up a bit against ND. They beat them 38-3, Sanchez played into the 4th quarter and threw a TD midway through the 4th quarter. But, him and Weis have always had bad blood.

They beat UCLA 28-7 last year and USC didn't score at all after early in the 3rd quarter.

They were up 31-7 on Penn State at the half. They tried to go very conservative in the 2nd half. Penn State brought it within 17 points, so Pete opened it up again and Sanchez threw deep one last time to put it away in the 3rd quarter. After that, it was mostly conservative runs.

I don't have the patience to go through every game in 2007, 2006, etc, but 2007 was much of the same. So, rather than just coping out with saying you don't want to debate with me, why don't you give some real concrete examples of Pete's supposed pattern of running up scores.

Eaglesfan27 · 11-29-2009, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Tony Jefferson was already decommitted. He does need to grow some thicker skin though...at least to play for Carroll

News to me but fair enough. Last I heard was that he was a soft UCLA commit.

bhlloy · 11-29-2009, 06:34 PM

I'm not sure I want Jefferson to be honest, he's a diva and he doesn't have a true position. If he puts on 30-40lbs and ends up as a linebacker cool, otherwise he's a slow safety and that's the one position we don't need. Also the ESPN analysts are in love with him but the other 2 services think he's average at best. One I was absolutely not worried about ending up at UCLA.

Eaglesfan27 · 11-29-2009, 06:37 PM

What the heck. Here is a quick revisit of 2007 as well:

USC beats Idaho in their first game, 38-10. Last passing TD was with 11:19 left in the 3rd quarter. No scores by USC in the 4th quarter.

Against Nebraska, up 42-10 after 3, they don't pass at all in the 4th. Nebraska with 2 late TD's to make it a 49-31 game.

Maybe you can make a case against Washington State. They beat them 47-14 with a TD pass late in the 3rd and early in the 4th. However, they go conservative for the last 11:28 of the game and don't score again.

They barely beat Washington 27-24. They lose to Stanford 24-23. Then, they only beat Arizona by 7.

Next week, they beat ND 38-0 but they no passing TD's after midway through the 3rd. Only 1 rushing TD in the 4th with 9 minutes left.

They lose to Oregon the next week.

They beat Oregon State 24-3, but don't score the entire 2nd half. Pete pulls off the gas too many times for my taste, much more so than running it up.

They beat Cal 24-17 the next week.

They beat Arizona State 44-24 next and don't score the entire 4th quarter.

Next up is a 24-7 victory over UCLA. They threw a TD with 12 minutes left, but went conservative after that.

Finally, the bowl game against Illinois. I guess you might have a case here. Up 35-10, they threw a TD with 14 minutes left in the game. It was the 3rd or 4th string HB who scored the last TD on a running play as they beat them 49-17.

Where is the pattern of running it up?

Chief Rum · 11-29-2009, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhlloy

I'm not sure I want Jefferson to be honest, he's a diva and he doesn't have a true position. If he puts on 30-40lbs and ends up as a linebacker cool, otherwise he's a slow safety and that's the one position we don't need. Also the ESPN analysts are in love with him but the other 2 services think he's average at best. One I was absolutely not worried about ending up at UCLA.

He won't end up at UCLA. He showed up to last night's game in head to toe USC gear. This is a guy who was still (supposedly) a soft UCLA commit.

Needless to say, Jefferson was a little put off by how he was treated by the UCLA players. He even admitted after that that wearing the gear probably led to it (duh, Tony).

I hope he goes to Oklahoma. He doesn't sound bright enough to go to UCLA if he chose to do that, and I think USC can do better, too.

Eaglesfan27 · 11-29-2009, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhlloy

I'm not sure I want Jefferson to be honest, he's a diva and he doesn't have a true position. If he puts on 30-40lbs and ends up as a linebacker cool, otherwise he's a slow safety and that's the one position we don't need. Also the ESPN analysts are in love with him but the other 2 services think he's average at best. One I was absolutely not worried about ending up at UCLA.

I actually agree with you, and I know USC stopped recruiting him or at least backed off for a bit. However, the staff has seen something they liked enough to start going after him hard and I trust in their ability to evaluate talent.

MrBug708 · 11-29-2009, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

News to me but fair enough. Last I heard was that he was a soft UCLA commit.

After the Michigan visit, he was quoted as saying that he almost committed to them. That's is as good as gone in my opinion.

As for bholly's comment about position, I think he's right. He's the perfect guy from the 3-3-5 though

Eaglesfan27 · 11-29-2009, 07:17 PM

One more year because I'm bored while waiting for the Monday Night game to start (very interested in seeing how Pitt uses Dixon.)

Here is a quick recap of 2006:

They beat Arkansas 50-14 in their first game. With a score of 30-7, they passed it for a TD with 12 minutes to go. This was Booty's first start. After that, they strictly ran the ball (with the 3rd then 4th string HB) and scored 2 more times.

They beat Nebraska 28-10. Only 1 rushing TD in the 4th.

They beat Arizona 20-3. They mostly ran it in the 4th, primarily with Emmanuel Moody, back when he was happy at SC. Only passing TD was midway through the 3rd to put them up 10-0.

WSU, Washington, and ASU games were all won by USC but by less than a TD.

Then, they lost to Oregon State 33-31.

Next game was a 42-0 defeat of Stanford. They pulled way back after taking a 28-0 lead at the half. Sanchez did throw 2 completions in mop up duty and had the only 4th quarter score on a 4 yard scramble with 5 minutes left.

They beat Oregon 35-10. Last TD was a pass with 12 minutes left. They ran it the rest of the game.

They beat Cal 23-9, the last TD was with 8 minutes left.

They beat Stanford 44-24. They passed it with 8 minutes to go for a TD when it was still a 31-17 game. The last TD was a on a kick return.

They lost to UCLA 13-9

Last game, they beat Michigan 32-18. Last TD was a pass with 7 minutes left when it was a 25-11 game.

Still no pattern of running it up.

RainMaker · 11-29-2009, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atocep

It's kind of funny to see all the death of the BCS scenarios thrown around each year, but the only thing that will bring down the BCS is if people actually stop going to and watching the games.

The ratings are kind of shitty considering it's a championship game in a highly popular sport that comes down to one game. The BCS Championship Game does a quarter of what the Super Bowl does and is on par with the Sunday afternoon regular season games on Fox and CBS.

I'm sure they are making money and there are people who have a vested interest in keeping it. But their ratings for their big postseason games are quite pathetic considering how popular football is here.

Atocep · 11-29-2009, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainMaker

The ratings are kind of shitty considering it's a championship game in a highly popular sport that comes down to one game. The BCS Championship Game does a quarter of what the Super Bowl does and is on par with the Sunday afternoon regular season games on Fox and CBS.

I'm sure they are making money and there are people who have a vested interest in keeping it. But their ratings for their big postseason games are quite pathetic considering how popular football is here.

I don't think it's a fair comparison. The Super Bowl is something people that haven't watched a single game of football all year will sit down and watch whether it's for the game, the commercials, for the halftime performance. I don't think any other sporting event can possibly touch it.

The BCS games still pull in very good ratings as all 5 BCS games beat the NCAA basketball championship by a comfortable margin. That's not a fair comparison either since basketball isn't as popular, but it's much fairer than comparing anything to the Super Bowl, IMO. The BCS title game even tops the World Series in viewers. I'd assume the BCS is quite pleased with championship game ratings in the 15.8-21.7 range while the other BCS games sit in the 5.4-12 range.

RainMaker · 11-29-2009, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atocep

I don't think it's a fair comparison. The Super Bowl is something people that haven't watched a single game of football all year will sit down and watch whether it's for the game, the commercials, for the halftime performance. I don't think any other sporting event can possibly touch it.

The BCS games still pull in very good ratings as all 5 BCS games beat the NCAA basketball championship by a comfortable margin. That's not a fair comparison either since basketball isn't as popular, but it's much fairer than comparing anything to the Super Bowl, IMO. The BCS title game even tops the World Series in viewers. I'd assume the BCS is quite pleased with championship game ratings in the 15.8-21.7 range while the other BCS games sit in the 5.4-12 range.

I think you can only compare football to football. World Series and NBA Finals have 7 games. Not to mention that football is immensely more popular than either sport at this time.

Even if you throw out the Super Bowl, the NFL crushes the NCAA with their postseason games and their regular season games beat or hang with the major bowls. I just think college football should be much more competitive on a national level.

JPhillips · 11-29-2009, 08:13 PM

College football is at a major disadvantage because many of the East coast cities don't have rabid college football fans. Boston, NY, Philly, DC, and Baltimore aren't college football cities, but have a very large and devoted pro fan base. Chicago also is much more of a pro football city.

Lathum · 11-29-2009, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips

College football is at a major disadvantage because many of the East coast cities don't have rabid college football fans. Boston, NY, Philly, DC, and Baltimore aren't college football cities, but have a very large and devoted pro fan base. Chicago also is much more of a pro football city.

regardless, if you have a playoff I think you would see much larger ratings, even in these areas. Casual fans will turn in to see a champion crowned.

kcchief19 · 11-29-2009, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Next game was a 42-0 defeat of Stanford. They pulled way back after taking a 28-0 lead at the half. Sanchez did throw 2 completions in mop up duty and had the only 4th quarter score on a 4 yard scramble with 5 minutes left.

Just to note ... Scrambling for a 4-yard TD run does seem to suggest that USC was throwing the ball at the goal line with a 35-0 lead. That would seem to be running up a score to me.

Warhammer · 11-29-2009, 09:12 PM

I'm a huge college football fan that has actually been drifting more and more away due to the BCS crap.

kcchief19 · 11-29-2009, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atocep

I don't think it's a fair comparison. The Super Bowl is something people that haven't watched a single game of football all year will sit down and watch whether it's for the game, the commercials, for the halftime performance. I don't think any other sporting event can possibly touch it.

The BCS games still pull in very good ratings as all 5 BCS games beat the NCAA basketball championship by a comfortable margin. That's not a fair comparison either since basketball isn't as popular, but it's much fairer than comparing anything to the Super Bowl, IMO. The BCS title game even tops the World Series in viewers. I'd assume the BCS is quite pleased with championship game ratings in the 15.8-21.7 range while the other BCS games sit in the 5.4-12 range.

The basketball title game outdrew all BCS bowls, most by a comfortable margin. Last year's title game drew a 15.8 rating and the basketball title game drew a 17.7. The Sweet 16 round drew more viewers than every other bowl but the title game. The Sugar Bowl rating was horrible and the Orange Bowl ratings were even worse.

The basketball tournament ratings are better than the top bowls despite the fact that the bowl games have better times (CBS airs plenty of basketball during workdays on opening weekend) and less competition.

RainMaker · 11-29-2009, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcchief19

The basketball title game outdrew all BCS bowls, most by a comfortable margin. Last year's title game drew a 15.8 rating and the basketball title game drew a 17.7. The Sweet 16 round drew more viewers than every other bowl but the title game. The Sugar Bowl rating was horrible and the Orange Bowl ratings were even worse.

The basketball tournament ratings are better than the top bowls despite the fact that the bowl games have better times (CBS airs plenty of basketball during workdays on opening weekend) and less competition.

Not to mention the people following along online at work or school.

RainMaker · 11-29-2009, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips

College football is at a major disadvantage because many of the East coast cities don't have rabid college football fans. Boston, NY, Philly, DC, and Baltimore aren't college football cities, but have a very large and devoted pro fan base. Chicago also is much more of a pro football city.

And that's the problem with the BCS. It turns the game into a regional one. There is nothing enticing to the national public about the Papa Johns Pizza Bowl. There is nothing really exciting about the ACC Championship game unless it has some kind of impact on the National Championship. Games that do such as last year's SEC Championship or the Ohio State - Michigan game in 2006 drew monster ratings that surpassed almost every single bowl game.

People on the East coast and Chicago would care if the games meant something and were not glorified consolation games. The general public is just not that interested in watching a game for 7th place.

JonInMiddleGA · 11-29-2009, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainMaker

And that's the problem with the BCS. It turns the game into a regional one.

College football is, by nature, a relatively regional one.

Quote:

People on the East coast and Chicago would care if the games meant something

I don't believe that for a minute. It's either something you get or you don't get.
Otherwise why are there not sudden massive surges in ratings for, say, the NHL in Columbus, GA for the Stanley Cup? They are, after all, crowning a champion via head to head competition.

Kodos · 11-30-2009, 08:33 AM

I made the mistake of Tivoing the Florida-FSU game rather than Stanford-Notre Dame. That would have been a much more entertaining game, and it had a happy ending.

MJ4H · 11-30-2009, 08:34 AM

Florida - FSU was brutal.

Kodos · 11-30-2009, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

College football is, by nature, a relatively regional one.

I don't believe that for a minute. It's either something you get or you don't get.
Otherwise why are there not sudden massive surges in ratings for, say, the NHL in Columbus, GA for the Stanley Cup? They are, after all, crowning a champion via head to head competition.

You have to pick a sport that people actually care about.

Kodos · 11-30-2009, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJ4H

Florida - FSU was brutal.

Yep. After it was 17-0, I started fast-forwarding. Soon after that, I was fast-forwarding at maximum speed. That's one nice thing about Tivoing games -- if they go to crap, you can fast-forward to a spot where your team looks like it might climb back into things. If it's hopeless, you save a lot of time, and you don't have to watch a team you hate win.

Eaglesfan27 · 11-30-2009, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcchief19

Just to note ... Scrambling for a 4-yard TD run does seem to suggest that USC was throwing the ball at the goal line with a 35-0 lead. That would seem to be running up a score to me.

I did say there were a few instances where you could argue it, but there is no such pattern. In almost every case, as in the one above, it was a 2nd or 3rd string young QB with little experience getting his first or second taste of PT. I'll have to look, but I'm fairly sure that was Sanchez's first career TD.

Kodos · 11-30-2009, 09:40 AM

I don't have a dog in the fight, although I will admit a mild dislike for USC and a general dislike for Carroll stemming from his NFL days--but I thought the long passing TD was hilarious and totally appropriate. "You don't want me to run the clock out? Okay, how about I air it out instead?"

11-29-2009, 05:23 PM	#351
Chief Rum Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Where Hip Hop lives	I'm not going to get into it with USC fans, because I already know what the reaction will be. I don't see a point in going down that road. I think Neuheisel had the right to call the timeout, because he believes the same as Pete Carroll, keep competing to the end. And for that reason, I don't really feel too done up about Carroll going deep the next play; he's competing, too, and Neuheisel should have expected that. Now, if Carroll were a classy coach, he still wouldn't have done that. He, however, has proven on a number of occasions that he is pretty much the epitome of the classless coach, so it's on Neuheisel, IMO, for not recognizing that Carroll would be completely to form on that next play. So I don't really blame Carroll as much as Neuheisel. My big problem was after that, the dancing, the taunting, moving onto the field with their celebration. IMO, that was the part where Carroll erred, not the on field play call, but how he chose to allow (hell, he led them) his team to celebrate the way it did, and the game's not even over. That was utterly and completely shitty and that stuff doesn't belong in college football. Unfortunately, I am sure the USC fans here will just continue to defend that and say "winners win" and whatever, and I don't have much to say, because, hey, they won. I'm not them; if they're comfortable having a guy like that as their coach, the ends (winning) justifying the means (classless team and program), then that's their decision to make. Regardless, it will definitely make for an interesting game next year. UCLA had its chances in this game, very winnable, but they just didn't do it. Kudos to USC for their opportunistic D and making the big plays when they needed to. FTR, if anyone was wondering I was avoiding this discussion, I just finished watching the game DVR'd. Had to work last night late, and I had to try like hell to avoid seeing a score or results or anything until I got a chance to watch this afternoon. Good luck the rest of the way, USC and in the recruiting season. __________________ . . I would rather be wrong...Than live in the shadows of your song...My mind is open wide...And now I'm ready to start...You're not sure...You open the door...And step out into the dark...Now I'm ready.

11-29-2009, 05:45 PM	#360
Blade6119 Coordinator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Scottsdale, Arizona	Your both right here...you called Carroll a a massive douche who has no class, but said its Neuheisel's fault because he should have known that...so your both going to win this arguement __________________ *Underachievement* The tallest blade of grass is the first to be cut by the lawnmower. *Despair* It's always darkest just before it goes pitch black. *Demotivation* Sometimes the best solution to morale problems is just to fire all of the unhappy people. http://www.despair.com/viewall.html

11-29-2009, 05:50 PM	#362
Cuckoo College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Edmond, OK	I don't have a dog in this fight either. I wouldn't have done it (the game was over, and USC was taking a knee), but I can find a way to rationalize Neuheisel's timeout in the category of playing to the end. I can't find a way to rationalize throwing deep other than rubbing it in. __________________ Commissioner - North American Football League Dallas Cowboys GM Last edited by Cuckoo : 11-29-2009 at 05:50 PM.

11-29-2009, 05:51 PM	#363
Chief Rum Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Where Hip Hop lives	And, I'm right, if Carroll was a classy coach, he wouldn't have done that. You know that, too. Harbaugh, your dog in the conference, IIRC, was just as classless two weeks ago, but I didn't think that was a big deal either, because Carroll has run up the score on many teams on a number of occasions over the past few years, so he has no right to complain. Turnabout here is also true. Neuheisel made the decision to call that timeout, and it was a decision with consequences. He made it, IMO, purely for form. If he didn't call the timeouts, people on his own sidelines (and coaches from other schools in recruits' living rooms) would say he gave up, he doesn't compete to the end. So Neuheisel decided to call that timeout; very much a longshot down two scores with 52 seconds left, but crazier stuff has happened. But Neuheisel screwed up, because he didn't look long range and recognize that he was going up against Carroll. Carroll has shown he only reads this sort of thing one way. IMO, it was obvious Carroll would throw it long after that timeout and Neuheisel should have known it. That doesn't mean Carroll isn't classless; he has long established that. It means Neuheisel was dumb for not taking into consideration what Carroll is and prepping his defense for it. So the whole on field thing is pretty much on Neuheisel. I can't blame Carroll for being true to his nature and throwing that pass. It's what he does. He competes to the end. If anything, Carroll's decision to kneel prior to the timeout was an amazing nod against his form. Kinda like the good Carroll angel over his shoulder finally got to him after all these years. And then Neuheisel called the timeout, Carroll's competitive spirit took over and the bad Carroll angel on his other shoulder had its way again. Kinda like playing with a lion, you know? Neuheisel made a decision that played with the lion, and he didn't make the proper preparations for what was going to result from that. Pretty dumb. __________________ . . I would rather be wrong...Than live in the shadows of your song...My mind is open wide...And now I'm ready to start...You're not sure...You open the door...And step out into the dark...Now I'm ready.

11-29-2009, 05:51 PM	#364
Eaglesfan27 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: New Jersey	CR, you should know that the moshing towards the end of the game has happened every year for the last 3 or 4. Pete kept his team under control and on their side of the field. Slick Rick couldn't do that as it was his team that was trying to turn it into a brawl by crossing over the field. I'm still ecstatic about Pete sticking it to Rick for calling that timeout. Pete tried to end the game in a classy manner, but Rick wanted to keep competing so Pete did. Recruits are reportedly thrilled with how things went as well. Mods are clearly saying that Tony Jefferson has decommitted from UCLA, and Jefferson was seen giving the Victory sign and wanting to come down from where he was. I think this weekend restrengthened Dillon Baxter's committment as well and I wouldn't be surprised if USC gets 2 of the 4 OOS recruits they were hosting last night as well as a few of the other in-state guys who were there. __________________ Retired GM of the eNFL 2007 Super Bowl Champion Philadelphia Eagles (19-0 record.) GM of the WOOF 2006 Doggie Bowl Champion Atlantic City Gamblers. GM of the IHOF 2019 and 2022 IHOF Bowl Champion Asheville Axemen.

11-29-2009, 05:27 PM	#353
Crapshoot Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Dec 2003	I don't have a dog in this fight, but hell: CR - this is somehow Carroll's fault? Why take that timeout for any reason other than to be a douche? USC was willing to play the game out - when UCLA then calls a timeout, it takes a ridiculous amount of gall to call USC classless at that point.

11-29-2009, 05:27 PM	#354
kcchief19 Pro Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Kansas City, MO	Catching up on all my reading and mega-posting ... my throat is still soar from yelling at the game yesterday. You have the throw out the records when rivals play and that's what the Border War was yesterday. Great game again, and great atmosphere playing at Arrowhead. Just glad we won. However, the sponsors of the Biletnikoff Award need to announce they are suspending voting and just give the trophy to Danario Alexander. These idiots have a "system" where they announce their "watch list" before they season and if you aren't on the watch list you can't be a "semifinalist." If you aren't a semifinalist you can't be a "finalist." So Danario Alexander is not on the official ballot. And Mike Williams from Syracuse is. Alexander has simply been dominant this year and the last half of the season. He leads the nation in yardage and is second in receptions. There have been seven 200-yard receiving games in FBS this year and he has three of them -- no one else has more than one. In his last four games he's gone over 200 yards three times and went for 173 the fourth time. He has 943 yards in the last five games. Shipley is going to win it and think about this for "rivalry" games. Shipley had 10 catches for 86 yards and no TDs against OU and OSU. Alexander had 7 catches for 181 and a TD against KU -- in the THIRD QUARTER ALONE. As for comparable competition, Alexander had 15 catches for 254 and a TD against OSU and Texas.

11-29-2009, 05:43 PM	#358
Crapshoot Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Dec 2003	We're going to have to agree to disagree on that one. PS - I spent Thanksgiving hanging out with my buddy (and his girlfriend, who is a big UCLA fan); some of my best friends here are USC alumni. None of you people have anything good to say about the other school, let alone the football team.

11-29-2009, 05:45 PM	#359
MrBug708 Head Coach Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Whittier	Most of the UCLA fans posts are directed at Carroll being a douche for his temper tantrum after the Stanford game and then pulling this. Most UCLA fans think that Rick was stupid to call the TO. I dont blame Carroll for going for it, I hope Rick would do the same thing to USC.

11-29-2009, 05:55 PM	#367
Chief Rum Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Where Hip Hop lives	EF27, I'm not getting into it with you. I already know what you'll say before you say it. I gave up hope of you trying to meet me in a middle ground a long time ago. Say what you want, I'm not going to bother to respond past this post. __________________ . . I would rather be wrong...Than live in the shadows of your song...My mind is open wide...And now I'm ready to start...You're not sure...You open the door...And step out into the dark...Now I'm ready.

11-29-2009, 05:58 PM	#370
Chief Rum Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Where Hip Hop lives	Here's what's lost in all the post-game/end-game hubbubb: UCLA went toe to toe with USC at the Coliseum and gave them all the Trojans could handle. Anyone who didn't watch this game will see 28-7 and not realize just how perilously close and even this game was for almost the entire game. USC doesn't have as much room to play with in front of their rivals as they used to. __________________ . . I would rather be wrong...Than live in the shadows of your song...My mind is open wide...And now I'm ready to start...You're not sure...You open the door...And step out into the dark...Now I'm ready.

11-29-2009, 06:17 PM	#375
MrBug708 Head Coach Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Whittier	Tony Jefferson was already decommitted. He does need to grow some thicker skin though...at least to play for Carroll

11-29-2009, 06:34 PM	#378
bhlloy Coordinator Join Date: Nov 2003	I'm not sure I want Jefferson to be honest, he's a diva and he doesn't have a true position. If he puts on 30-40lbs and ends up as a linebacker cool, otherwise he's a slow safety and that's the one position we don't need. Also the ESPN analysts are in love with him but the other 2 services think he's average at best. One I was absolutely not worried about ending up at UCLA.

11-29-2009, 06:37 PM	#379
Eaglesfan27 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: New Jersey	What the heck. Here is a quick revisit of 2007 as well: USC beats Idaho in their first game, 38-10. Last passing TD was with 11:19 left in the 3rd quarter. No scores by USC in the 4th quarter. Against Nebraska, up 42-10 after 3, they don't pass at all in the 4th. Nebraska with 2 late TD's to make it a 49-31 game. Maybe you can make a case against Washington State. They beat them 47-14 with a TD pass late in the 3rd and early in the 4th. However, they go conservative for the last 11:28 of the game and don't score again. They barely beat Washington 27-24. They lose to Stanford 24-23. Then, they only beat Arizona by 7. Next week, they beat ND 38-0 but they no passing TD's after midway through the 3rd. Only 1 rushing TD in the 4th with 9 minutes left. They lose to Oregon the next week. They beat Oregon State 24-3, but don't score the entire 2nd half. Pete pulls off the gas too many times for my taste, much more so than running it up. They beat Cal 24-17 the next week. They beat Arizona State 44-24 next and don't score the entire 4th quarter. Next up is a 24-7 victory over UCLA. They threw a TD with 12 minutes left, but went conservative after that. Finally, the bowl game against Illinois. I guess you might have a case here. Up 35-10, they threw a TD with 14 minutes left in the game. It was the 3rd or 4th string HB who scored the last TD on a running play as they beat them 49-17. Where is the pattern of running it up? __________________ Retired GM of the eNFL 2007 Super Bowl Champion Philadelphia Eagles (19-0 record.) GM of the WOOF 2006 Doggie Bowl Champion Atlantic City Gamblers. GM of the IHOF 2019 and 2022 IHOF Bowl Champion Asheville Axemen. Last edited by Eaglesfan27 : 11-29-2009 at 06:38 PM.

11-29-2009, 07:17 PM	#383
Eaglesfan27 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: New Jersey	One more year because I'm bored while waiting for the Monday Night game to start (very interested in seeing how Pitt uses Dixon.) Here is a quick recap of 2006: They beat Arkansas 50-14 in their first game. With a score of 30-7, they passed it for a TD with 12 minutes to go. This was Booty's first start. After that, they strictly ran the ball (with the 3rd then 4th string HB) and scored 2 more times. They beat Nebraska 28-10. Only 1 rushing TD in the 4th. They beat Arizona 20-3. They mostly ran it in the 4th, primarily with Emmanuel Moody, back when he was happy at SC. Only passing TD was midway through the 3rd to put them up 10-0. WSU, Washington, and ASU games were all won by USC but by less than a TD. Then, they lost to Oregon State 33-31. Next game was a 42-0 defeat of Stanford. They pulled way back after taking a 28-0 lead at the half. Sanchez did throw 2 completions in mop up duty and had the only 4th quarter score on a 4 yard scramble with 5 minutes left. They beat Oregon 35-10. Last TD was a pass with 12 minutes left. They ran it the rest of the game. They beat Cal 23-9, the last TD was with 8 minutes left. They beat Stanford 44-24. They passed it with 8 minutes to go for a TD when it was still a 31-17 game. The last TD was a on a kick return. They lost to UCLA 13-9 Last game, they beat Michigan 32-18. Last TD was a pass with 7 minutes left when it was a 25-11 game. Still no pattern of running it up. __________________ Retired GM of the eNFL 2007 Super Bowl Champion Philadelphia Eagles (19-0 record.) GM of the WOOF 2006 Doggie Bowl Champion Atlantic City Gamblers. GM of the IHOF 2019 and 2022 IHOF Bowl Champion Asheville Axemen.

11-29-2009, 08:13 PM	#387
JPhillips Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Newburgh, NY	College football is at a major disadvantage because many of the East coast cities don't have rabid college football fans. Boston, NY, Philly, DC, and Baltimore aren't college football cities, but have a very large and devoted pro fan base. Chicago also is much more of a pro football city. __________________ To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.. - Mr. Rogers

11-29-2009, 09:12 PM	#390
Warhammer Pro Starter Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Dayton, OH	I'm a huge college football fan that has actually been drifting more and more away due to the BCS crap.

11-30-2009, 08:33 AM	#395
Kodos Resident Alien Join Date: Jun 2001	I made the mistake of Tivoing the Florida-FSU game rather than Stanford-Notre Dame. That would have been a much more entertaining game, and it had a happy ending. __________________ Author of The Bill Gates Challenge, as well as other groundbreaking dynasties.

11-30-2009, 08:34 AM	#396
MJ4H Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Hog Country	Florida - FSU was brutal. __________________ My YouTube channel My Twitch channel My Sharona

11-30-2009, 09:40 AM	#400
Kodos Resident Alien Join Date: Jun 2001	I don't have a dog in the fight, although I will admit a mild dislike for USC and a general dislike for Carroll stemming from his NFL days--but I thought the long passing TD was hilarious and totally appropriate. "You don't want me to run the clock out? Okay, how about I air it out instead?" __________________ Author of The Bill Gates Challenge, as well as other groundbreaking dynasties.

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