2020 Democratic Primaries/General Election Thread

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Vegas Vic

The Texas counties on the border with Mexico also stand out. Also, take a look at California, New York and Florida.

Noticed that, but then look at South Carolina through Mississippi. It looks like you red stains throughout really blue states, but blue stains in very red states.

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by CarterNMA

Thank you Gary for this comment! Because you spout your know-it-all dribble you have assured that I'll never buy a Wolverine Studios product, ever. You're not Chick-Fil-A, Hobby Lobby or Walmart so you probably shouldn't be pissing on potential customers. As Qwikshot said, cram it up your ass!

Ditto. It's a wonder Catholics get a bad rep in some circles...

[GrantDawg]

Even Kentucky. You don't see a red splotch anywhere.

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

My CNN colleagues looked into 50 of the names on a viral MAGA list supposedly showing 14,000 Michigan cases of ballots being cast in the name of dead people.

Result:
- 37 are dead, no vote cast
- 5 are alive and voted
- 8 are alive and didn’t vote https://t.co/2qvoVmRI3N

— Daniel Dale (@ddale8) November 10, 2020

I'm no mathologist, but, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that's not enough to swing Michigan in trump's favor.

[Drake]

I don't think it's about numbers that swing the election, at this point. By the narrative, if they find one instance of voter fraud, they've invalidated the whole election.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Vegas Vic

The Texas counties on the border with Mexico also stand out. Also, take a look at California, New York and Florida.

Here's a different Texas one that was making the rounds and should worry any Dems expecting to "turn Texas blue":

https://twitter.com/longhornderek/st...39532614979585

SI

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by JediKooter

I'm no mathologist, but, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that's not enough to swing Michigan in trump's favor.

You mean 0 out of 50 being fraudulent probably doesn't scale very well to steal an election?

SI

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Drake

I don't think it's about numbers that swing the election, at this point. By the narrative, if they find one instance of voter fraud, they've invalidated the whole election.

Exactly. Because the cover-up is so massive, they were only able to find whatever sparse evidence they have. The system is precluding them from proving the massive scale of what happened.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Gary Gorski

First of all just because Pope Francis or any other pope says something it does not make it an infallible statement nor is the pope allowed to change church teaching just by giving his opinions.

Now, Francis is correct - Catholics cannot be concerned only with abortion. They should be concerned with those other issues as well. Whether they are "equal" in concern is not an official teaching of the church, that is Francis' opinion but regardless they are obviously important.

In fact your post speaks to the idea that one must be concerned about ALL of those things - which would then make it very hard to claim that Joe Biden is practicing his Catholic faith when he is opposed to the very first item in your quote "the dignity of a human life, which is always sacred"

So you are right, it is not just one issue that makes you Catholic - it is a large group of them but it is also a requirement that you follow all of them and not just the ones that win you political points with your side (as you did happen to include in the quote from Francis)

So when it comes to who is "Real Catholic", Gary Gorski > Pope, got it.

Pretty cool the guy that defines Christianity for all peoples and God himself is right here on FOFC. I mean, hot damn!

This is an opportunity we haven't fully taken advantage of. I say we spin this off into another thread and you can make a list of all FOFcers who are going to hell, and all who will serve you in your Kingdom of Heaven.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Exactly. Because the cover-up is so massive, they were only able to find whatever sparse evidence they have. The system is precluding them from proving the massive scale of what happened.

Well, 0* eleventy billion is still 0...

Also, LOL @ Dems being able to pull off a massive conspiracy

SI

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

You mean 0 out of 50 being fraudulent probably doesn't scale very well to steal an election?

SI

Exactly. If my memory serves me, every instance of voter fraud found in the past equals such a small number that there's no way anyone can say there is a coordinated effort of voter fraud. This is just the GOP tilting at windmills and putting on a puppet show for their fans.

[sabotai]

Just saw the clip of Mike Pompeo saying ‘There will be a smooth transition to a second Trump administration’.

I thought it was clearly a joke.

EDIT: NOT a funny joke, mind you....just that he wasn't being serious.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Also, LOL @ Dems being able to pull off a massive conspiracy

This is all that needs to be said. Anyone who thinks the Dems are competent enough to pull this off is crazy in the head.

[Vegas Vic]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Here's a different Texas one that was making the rounds and should worry any Dems expecting to "turn Texas blue":

https://twitter.com/longhornderek/st...39532614979585

SI

The one that's really shocking is Starr County, which is 95% Hispanic. The last Republican to win that county was Benjamin Harrison in 1892. Obama won it in 2012 with 84% of the vote, and Biden won it this year with 52% of the vote.

[stevew]

And nobody is going to challenge Nancy for leadership. Glad to see the Dems remain so tone deaf.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by stevew

And nobody is going to challenge Nancy for leadership. Glad to see the Dems remain so tone deaf.

Glad they don't really want those two Georgia seats. Because this would take away one thing to run against ("Evil Socialist Nancy!")

SI

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Glad they don't really want those two Georgia seats. Because this would take away one thing to run against ("Evil Socialist Nancy!")

SI

To be fair, the GOP would try to demonize anyone. It's not like they have to stick to facts or any nonsense like that.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

To be fair, the GOP would try to demonize anyone. It's not like they have to stick to facts or any nonsense like that.

Right. Before the election there were numerous negative ads about "Hollywood Jon Ossoff".

[bronconick]

Originally Posted by stevew

And nobody is going to challenge Nancy for leadership. Glad to see the Dems remain so tone deaf.

When you only have a 7-8 vote edge, I don't know if you can have a prolonged fight over the Speakership. They'd probably screw up and hand it to Kevin McCarthy

[JPhillips]

I believe Francis' point is that most everyone comes up short of the teachings of the church, and it's foolish to start picking and choosing what should result in kicking them out of the church.

In essence, it's very similar to, Let he who is without sin...

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by bronconick

When you only have a 7-8 vote edge, I don't know if you can have a prolonged fight over the Speakership. They'd probably screw up and hand it to Kevin McCarthy

The Speaker fight I think happened in 2018. Everything I've seen says that the agreement was for Pelosi to stay as leader until after the 2022 election.

[SackAttack]

Never seen somebody light their small business on fire before. Even, uh, metaphorically.

Maybe don't get into a shouting match with your customers about whether they're Real Catholics (tm), Gary.

[Brian Swartz]

This isn't going to go over well, but frankly I don't care.

I know Gary Gorski and had the pleasure of working for him at WS for several years. I consider him one of the finest and noblest human beings I've ever had the privilege of being associated with professionally. I think it's rather revealing the degree to which, once again as a contrarian voice, what others have said about him here is far ruder and more disrespectful than anything he said, and completely out of proportion to what he said. It's just one more example of how FOFC is all for diversity ... so long as it's the kind of diversity we approve of.

[molson]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

I believe Francis' point is that most everyone comes up short of the teachings of the church, and it's foolish to start picking and choosing what should result in kicking them out of the church.

In essence, it's very similar to, Let he who is without sin...

This is what I learned growing up in church (where my father was the pastor).

It was quite a surprise when I reached adulthood and learned that that, and many many other things, meant we weren't "real Christians" as defined by people who had bestowed upon themselves the power to define us and nullify our church.

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

This isn't going to go over well, but frankly I don't care.

I know Gary Gorski and had the pleasure of working for him at WS for several years. I consider him one of the finest and noblest human beings I've ever had the privilege of being associated with professionally. I think it's rather revealing the degree to which, once again as a contrarian voice, what others have said about him here is far ruder and more disrespectful than anything he said, and completely out of proportion to what he said. It's just one more example of how FOFC is all for diversity ... so long as it's the kind of diversity we approve of.

Oh come on. He jumps in the thread as the arbiter of what a true Catholic is and tells other Catholics that they aren't real Catholics because they don't do things the way he thinks they should. People rightfully called him out on it and told him he'd lost them as potential customers. Where is the problem?

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by molson

This is what I learned growing up in church (where my father was the pastor).

It was quite a surprise when I reached adulthood and learned that that, and many many other things, meant we weren't "real Christians" as defined by people who had bestowed upon themselves the power to define us and nullify our church.

Yeah. I'm pretty sure Gary would have no use for my NE Presbyterianism.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Right. Before the election there were numerous negative ads about "Hollywood Jon Ossoff".

I watched the GOP turn Thom Daschle into Lenin. It doesn't matter who it is.

[Brian Swartz]

He made an argument about the nature of belief itself, including Catholicism. At no point in that argument did he make a personal attack. People deciding not to buy his products is besides the point and not what I was referring to. What did follow is him being called a 'dumb ass' (by Qwikshot), a sanctimonious ass (Qwikshot again), AlexB posts in support of that statement. Then Gary makes his final post, which again contains no personal attack but a further elaboration and defense of his position. This is followed by CarterNMA, whose helpful comments included 'know-it-all dribble' and 'cram it up your ass', Galaril in support of that (same here), and then you as well Kodos.

By my count, that's five posters, all of whom crossed the line. molson then won the whole discussion with this: "say we spin this off into another thread and you can make a list of all FOFcers who are going to hell, and all who will serve you in your Kingdom of Heaven." Which is so far out of proportion the phrase res ipsa loquitur comes to mind.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by molson

I say we spin this off into another thread and you can make a list of all FOFcers who are going to hell, and all who will serve you in your Kingdom of Heaven.

Good thing I'm Catholic and we have purgatory.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Here's a different Texas one that was making the rounds and should worry any Dems expecting to "turn Texas blue":

https://twitter.com/longhornderek/st...39532614979585

SI

The problem for me is that there were so many low propensity voters that it seems risky to make predictions based on their votes. How many of the new voters on both sides return in 2022 and/or 2024? Is it possible the electorate looks much more like 2014? How much of the Trump effect carries over to any other candidate?

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Good thing I'm Catholic and we have purgatory.

That's looking on the bright side (and an amusing response)!

[Kodos]

Luckily the Deep State will keep me from having my posting rights stripped away.

[JPhillips]

At some point stepping closer to the cliff will result in a fall.

Pence message today to Senate Republicans, per source:

I want to keep serving with you (as president of the Senate), and I think I will.

— Annie Karni (@anniekarni) November 10, 2020

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

I think it's rather revealing the degree to which, once again as a contrarian voice, what others have said about him here is far ruder and more disrespectful than anything he said, and completely out of proportion to what he said.

I don't know if you are religious or not, but telling people they aren't a true believer in the faith if you believe X is one of the more offensive things I think you can tell a religious person.

Like if someone told me I wasn't a true Lutheran or Christian because I believe in gay marriage, I would literally write that person out of my life.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Good thing I'm Catholic and we have purgatory.

Purgatory. Like missing your Greyhound bus connection in Columbus, Ohio.

[Ghost Econ]

Originally Posted by molson

Purgatory. Like missing your Greyhound bus connection in Columbus, Ohio.

Jokes on him, we've been in purgatory the last 4 years so that both siders could have their 401k go up less.

[Brian Swartz]

I don't even know what to say to that. You know where I stand theologically, we've debated it on multiple occasions.

More to the point, are we really at the point where we're just going to come right out and say that debate is simply not acceptable if the opinion being expressed is offensive? Because if that's where we are than my point is proven:

Originally Posted by me, a few posts ago

It's just one more example of how FOFC is all for diversity ... so long as it's the kind of diversity we approve of.

Any type of honest debate involves risking offending someone and/or being offended. There's no point in debating at all if we don't accept that possibility going in.

[molson]

We can debate. But if one side of the debate's position is, "My word is God's law and he rejects you and your beliefs", then don't be surprised if it invokes some rebuttal. Even if someone is not particularly religious.

[ISiddiqui]

Deliberately offending someone is very different than inadvertently offending someone. Telling someone they aren't a practicing member of the faith because they believe something differently is deliberately offending others. Deliberately offending someone is being an ass. There is no debate when someone is doing that.

It's akin to someone saying you aren't a real American if you voted for Trump, especially when you know there are Trump voters in the room.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by molson

Purgatory. Like missing your Greyhound bus connection in Columbus, Ohio.

Just as long as I have all the books of the Bible and not a cut-down version.

[Brian Swartz]

Rebuttal is fine though - this went way beyond that.

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Telling someone they aren't a practicing member of the faith because they believe something differently is deliberately offending others.

No it isn't. If that's what you believe, then saying anything less is dishonest and unworthy. The mere expression of an opinion does not constitute intent to offend, and this also just frankly proves my point. Some opinions are acceptable; others are not.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Deliberately offending someone is very different than inadvertently offending someone. Telling someone they aren't a practicing member of the faith because they believe something differently is deliberately offending others. Deliberately offending someone is being an ass.

Eh, I wouldn't call Jesus, Paul, and Nathan (among others) "asses," but that's just me...

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

No it isn't. If that's what you believe, then saying anything less is dishonest and unworthy. The mere expression of an opinion does not constitute intent to offend, and this also just frankly proves my point. Some opinions are acceptable; others are not.

Yes, in debate some opinions are acceptable and others are not. Deliberately being an ass is not acceptable in a debate. Knowing there are Catholics who are not super pro-life on this board and saying such a thing is a down low personal attack on someone else's faith.

There is no debate there and it's unacceptable.

[HerRealName]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Eh, I wouldn't call Jesus, Paul, and Nathan (among others) "asses," but that's just me...

I wouldn't have a problem with it. I'll just see my way out of this conversation.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Eh, I wouldn't call Jesus, Paul, and Nathan (among others) "asses," but that's just me...

There is a reason that Jesus and Paul got people so mad at them... and I'm betting they knew they'd be treated that way. (Yeah, they were being asses - well Paul was a bit more politic so may have avoided it most times - and I don't think that's all too controversial, I mean Jesus told a woman she was akin to a dog once)

Nathan is different as he went directly to David to confront him as a friend. He didn't just throw a bomb in a room to hit whoever.

[Galaril]

Ok election thread is a now a religion thread.... I too will grab my hat and coat and see myself out.

[Qwikshot]

I was blunt, but I am willing to say probably to an unprofessional extreme. I apologize for that.

I wish no ill to Gary or his business.

I just know how I was raised, and it was to love all, and treat all with respect, but also to fight for those who cannot fight for themselves.

I see religion twisted just like politics for purposes to segment the population into those who are worthy and those who aren't.

I was not raised that anyone was better than me, nor that anyone was doomed because they didn't follow my path, my religion, my preferences. And at the end, if you believe in God or any faith, you will be judged so let the Almighty judge rather than us on Earth, and if you don't and you've lived as a good person who am I to judge your worthiness, devoutness, or faith?

I don't think (my opinion) that God cares about a rulebook, God just cares. And if that is a simplistic infantile viewpoint, so be it.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Yes, in debate some opinions are acceptable and others are not. Deliberately being an ass is not acceptable in a debate. Knowing there are Catholics who are not super pro-life on this board and saying such a thing is a down low personal attack on someone else's faith.

There is no debate there and it's unacceptable.

While I do agree in part, I feel guilty for playing a role in steering the conversation down a road I knew would be bad for all parties. This board veers hard to the left (and I'm part of that) and I know people that disagree feel piled on simply because they tend to be outnumbered.

As for Gary specifically, I don't agree with his views on religion but he has gone above and beyond with support for his games and helping me directly. We all need to be prepared for the repercussions of our words and actions, but as soon as Gary's business starts being pulled into the debate it becomes uncomfortable for me. Some may feel I'm wrong for that or maybe not. I'm not sure, but I'd personally rather people feel free to post here without their personal lives being affected. That's a fine line that I'm not sure we want to cross into on a message board.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Knowing there are Catholics who are not super pro-life on this board and saying such a thing is a down low personal attack on someone else's faith.

Does he know that? I've been here 20 years and I have no clue what denomination almost anyone here is. I think you're ELCA-ish, maybe, and I know that GrantDawg and JIMGA are Protestant, but no idea what specific denomination. Radii is either atheist or agnostic (forget which.) I would think that revrew is some form of Protestant, but not sure which. Those are literally the only ones I even have the first inkling about...

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Eh, I wouldn't call Jesus, Paul, and Nathan (among others) "asses," but that's just me...

Well, Paul kindof was an ass and I'm not just meaning pre-conversion

SI