Unofficial Official 2012-13 College Basketball Thread

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

It reminds me of Harrison Barnes getting hyped before stepping on campus - even if he is that good, why not wait to see how it translates to college and the system he is playing in. That's without even touching the likely suspension.

Originally Posted by Radii

Harrison Barnes says be careful.

John Wall asks, why?

(See what I did there?)

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Fans of Bob Huggins-coached teams probably shouldn't throw stones (although I certainly agree with you on Calhoun).

If Huggins has been dirty at WVU we certainly haven't benefited from it in recruiting.

Basketball recruiting, in general, is a dirty game. It's also almost impossible for the NCAA to police because of the number of handlers nearly every 4 and 5 star recruit has. Football recruiting violations are easier to catch and therefore get everyone's attention, but those kids generally don't have handlers and they don't have years of AAU connections that money/benefits can be funneled through.

If Yahoo/Rivals focused their attention to digging up basketball recruiting dirt they'd probably have enough to stories to last a decade.

I've always found it interesting that those that cover recruiting will quickly name Calhoun when it comes to who the dirty coaches are in college basketball and a poll I saw of college coaches listed him a close 2nd to Calipari as dirtiest recruiter, but he's never developed the reputation that Calipari has. Even when he held UConn hostage with the timing of his retirement just so he could force the school to go with Kevin Ollie it didn't get much attention. A lot of praise for what he accomplished at UConn, but I didn't see a single person in the media question him for retiring the way he did.

[britrock88]

TBH, I'm not sure why the UNC scandal merits mention for the basketball team. Sure, there were AFAM majors on the basketball team. But we don't have anything like the tutor scandal that sank Butch and the football team.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

John Wall asks, why?

Wall wasn't a preseason all american. Barnes was. Point isn't that freshmen can be great, the point is that its unbelievably stupid to put someone who has never played a minute of college ball on an all american team based on potential and high school play.

[MrBug708]

Perhaps, but most people felt that Shabazz was the best player (Or right there with Anthony Davis) in the nation as a Junior in HS as well.

Sure he can be a bust, but what's the point of preseason AA lists? They usually are created to determine who will be there at the end of the year

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

It reminds me of Harrison Barnes getting hyped before stepping on campus - even if he is that good, why not wait to see how it translates to college and the system he is playing in. That's without even touching the likely suspension.

Originally Posted by Radii

Harrison Barnes says be careful.

Exactly. Stick him on the first team All-Freshman or Freshman of the Year. If he's good enough, he'll get the accolades at the end of the year for All-American. I know it's an argument that doesn't mean much, but it seems awfully silly to put him on the 1st Team AA.

[MrBug708]

It's about as silly as comparing him to either Barnes or Wall

[cartman]

Not sure how this is going to turn out.

Cavs' Tristan Thompson says he paid for Texas G Myck Kabongo to visit Cleveland; NCAA investigates | cleveland.com

[sterlingice]

And we have arrived at late night

SI

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

And we have arrived at late night

SI

In related news, for the first time since April, a KU fan has been sighted in public.

Great dunk out of Keion Bell at last night's Mizzou Madness. Was #1 on SC Top 10......

Watch @Keion_Bell dunk over 6 people to win the Mizzou Madness dunk contest.

[TargetPractice6]

At least Kansas made it to April...

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

In related news, for the first time since April, a KU fan has been sighted in public.

Great dunk out of Keion Bell at last night's Mizzou Madness. Was #1 on SC Top 10......

Watch @Keion_Bell dunk over 6 people to win the Mizzou Madness dunk contest.

Norfolk St. says "What's up?"

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by TargetPractice6

At least Kansas made it to April...

Let him have his fun. I'm a bit disappointed we don't get to play this season, tho. Guess we'll have to meet in the tournament.

SI

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

In related news, for the first time since April, a KU fan has been sighted in public.

Great dunk out of Keion Bell at last night's Mizzou Madness. Was #1 on SC Top 10......

Watch @Keion_Bell dunk over 6 people to win the Mizzou Madness dunk contest.

Pfft. Izzo really flies.

[mauchow]

Badgers will be without their hustle man, Senior Mike Bruesewitz, for at least 5 weeks with a laceration of at least 12 inches long on his leg that extends from his knee down to his ankle. He got it from the backside of the basketball hoop. Cut it open enough for his teammates to see the bone........

This pretty much locks up the starting job for Dekker (who was likely starting anyway over Mike). This could also mean the Badgers will have two freshman starters on this years team. George Marshall in line for the job at PG over Josh Gasser (will start at SG) and Ben Brust (sixth man).

I know I've said it before but this team will be much better than last year's team without Jordan Taylor playing.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

Norfolk St. says "What's up?"

Agreed. Our program is at the point now where 30-5 is a bad season. It's just so difficult to handle.

[mauchow]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Agreed. Our program is at the point now where 30-5 is a bad season. It's just so difficult to handle.

No way. You have one 30-5 season and that's the expectation every year? pfft

Mizzou is not where you say it is, sorry.

And two years removed from the season of the hot start for the Tigers to nearly missing Tourney only to lose in first round...

Wisconsin's program is much further along than Mizzou's.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by mauboy1

No way. You have one 30-5 season and that's the expectation every year? pfft

Mizzou is not where you say it is, sorry.

And two years removed from the season of the hot start for the Tigers to nearly missing Tourney only to lose in first round...

Wisconsin's program is much further along than Mizzou's.

I'll ignore the comparison (best to agree to disagree) and simply focus on Mizzou. Mizzou has averaged over 25 wins over the past three seasons. While I certainly realize that NCAA results play a big factor, 95% of the other schools would sell their soul for those results.

Mizzou is stacked with talent this year. Pressey has already been selected on a 1st team AA team (see previous post I made). Dixon should step right into Marcus Denmon's scorer role without any issues. Bowers returns from his injury and should be a great force in the post. Transfers Keion Bell and Earnest Ross were both the leading scorers for their old team (note that Ross won't even be starting for Mizzou). Oriachi won a national championship at UConn and should help Bowers find space. Jabari Brown is a 5 star recruit who has had a year to learn under last's year's senior-laden team (he'll be available in December).

Here's the schedule for this year for Mizzou with my prediction:

W Missouri Southern
W SIUE
W Exempt game
W Nicholls State
W Stanford
W Louisville/No. Iowa
L Atlantis Finals
W Appalachian State
W SEMO
W Tenn. State
W So. Carolina St.
W Illinois
L @UCLA
W Bucknell
W Alabama
W @Old Miss
W Georgia
L @Florida
W South Carolina
W Vanderbilt
W @LSU
W Auburn
W @ Texas A&M
W Old Miss
W @Arkansas
W Florida
L @Kentucky
W @South Carolina
W LSU
W Arkansas
W @Tennessee

27-4 is what I have there. The three possible swing games that picked as a win that may swing the other way are @Arkansas, @Texas A&M, and @Tennessee. Even with all of them going away, that's still a 24-7 mark (with likely a couple more wins available in the SEC tourney). That prediction isn't out of line with the media selections I've seen thus far, with Mizzou and Kentucky being the only two teams even considered as a SEC champion selection option.

[mauchow]

You spent a lot of time on that only to continue being wrong.

Mizzou at this point in time is a flash in the pan.

Oh and the Badgers have also averaged 25 wins in the last three seasons. And before that you went five years without an NCAA tourney appearance...as a program I'd take Wisconsin's over Mizzou at this point in time. Whether or not Mizzou is better than Wisconsin this year doesn't matter to me, "Agreed. Our program is at the point now where 30-5 is a bad season. It's just so difficult to handle.", this statement doesn't sit well with me at all... You've had ONE season at 30-5 and you talk about having a 30-5 season as a bad season because of where your program is. I'm sorry, man, but your program isn't a Duke or UNC. Not even close. Your one year of success has gotten to your head and made you extremely ill(ogical).

[Chubby]

missouri has averaged 20 wins the last 9 years. and that's in a weaker conference.

2 can play that game

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Chubby

missouri has averaged 20 wins the last 9 years. and that's in a weaker conference.

Wait? Big XII weaker than SEC in basketball?

EDIT: I'd even argue that the Big Ten and Big XII are really close the last 10 years in basketball.

SI

[sterlingice]

And I'd be right in arguing that the Big XII and Big Ten are comparable over the last ten years. Both have been the best conference twice and the Big XII has a better average record. There's not a lot separating those top 5 conferences. Tho, until the last 2 years, the ACC held a noticeable edge (if you only do the 8 years up until 2010) and the other 4 were a step behind. But that's kindof cherry picking an arbitrary 8 years.

http://statsheet.com/mcb/conferences/stats/rpi?season=2011-2012
Conference RPI the last 10 years

Big XII 3 3 1 3 3 7 5 3 4 1 = 33
Big Ten 1 2 5 2 6 4 1 6 6 5 = 38
Big Est 2 1 3 4 5 5 2 2 3 4 = 31
ACC Con 6 5 2 1 1 2 4 1 1 3 = 26
SEC Con 4 6 4 6 4 1 3 5 2 2 = 37 
Pac  10 9 7 8 5 2 3 7 4 9 6 = 60 

*Technically the Pac-12 was 10th last year but I went with 9 to keep it single digit

403 Forbidden
Conference RPI the last 10 years
EDIT: Funny that the link shows up as forbidden but it still works for me.

SI

[mauchow]

Yep, the B12 and B10 have been pretty comparable and now Mizzou gets the benefit of playing in the regularly horrid SEC (with the exception of Kentucky and usually Florida).

[Chubby]

eh who pays much attention to conferences NOT the big east and acc in hoops

[sterlingice]

How's that going to work this year for the Big East

Since there are only 24 teams now in the conference, does that mean the Big East tourney doesn't take up the entire month of February

SI

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by mauboy1

You spent a lot of time on that only to continue being wrong.

Mizzou at this point in time is a flash in the pan.

Oh and the Badgers have also averaged 25 wins in the last three seasons. And before that you went five years without an NCAA tourney appearance...as a program I'd take Wisconsin's over Mizzou at this point in time. Whether or not Mizzou is better than Wisconsin this year doesn't matter to me, "Agreed. Our program is at the point now where 30-5 is a bad season. It's just so difficult to handle.", this statement doesn't sit well with me at all... You've had ONE season at 30-5 and you talk about having a 30-5 season as a bad season because of where your program is. I'm sorry, man, but your program isn't a Duke or UNC. Not even close. Your one year of success has gotten to your head and made you extremely ill(ogical).

LOL......someone's sarcasm meter malfunctioned at about 8:55 AM yesterday morning.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Wait? Big XII weaker than SEC in basketball?

SI

This. Obviously I'm a much bigger basketball fan than a football fan. While the discussion on the SEC was mostly focused on football, I was pretty excited for basketball. There's a lot more room to stack up some wins and getting a top 3 spot consistently in the SEC conference than in the Big 12. The B12 is a very competitive conference (if not the best) in basketball. The prediction I laid out in the previous post is very doable in the SEC, especially since we only play UK and UF once each.

[cartman]

USA Today Coaches Top 25 was released today. IU is the preseason #1. Really surprised that Texas snuck in at a tie for 24, with the extreme youth of the team and the Kabongo situation not resolved.

NCAA College Basketball Polls, College Basketball Rankings, NCAA Basketball Polls - ESPN

[Matthean]

I would love for Michigan to be #5, but I'm wait and see with that team. If Hardaway Jr. continues to be unimpressive, it's hard to back that team too much.

[Izulde]

First time in 20 years UNLV's been in the preseason Top 25.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Honestly a bit disappointed with #17 for Mizzou, but I think that is a ranking that involves the uncertainty of how all the talent will gel as a unit more than any concern about the talent level at MU.

[Wolfpack]

NC State gets #6. Expectations are officially off the charts insane.

I went looking through a rankings archive website and the last time State was ranked so high apparently was 1984 in the follow-up year to the national title before everyone realized just how badly State would suffer without Lowe, Whittenburg, and Bailey. They ended up crashing and burning in the ACC and missed out on the NCAAs altogether that year. Before that, it looks like 1979 where they had a similar strong start before a bad finish. The last legitimate wire-to-wire top 10 team at State was in 1974-75. That would be David Thompson's senior year.

It's been a while.

[Butter]

SLU, VCU, Butler, and St. Joseph's in the "Others Receiving Votes" section. It's going to be a murderous year in the A10.

[sterlingice]

Kansas too high at #7. Lots of young talent but unless Withey improves a lot offensively or Elijah Johnson doesn't have to run the point, they don't have much in the way of veteran scoring.

SI

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Kansas too high at #7. Lots of young talent but unless Withey improves a lot offensively or Elijah Johnson doesn't have to run the point, they don't have much in the way of veteran scoring.

SI

I think a lot of that is the fact that most people didn't pick them to win or do well last year and they went out and won another championship. One of those deals where you don't pick against them until they prove otherwise.

[mauchow]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

LOL......someone's sarcasm meter malfunctioned at about 8:55 AM yesterday morning.

Sure.

[molson]

I'm sure going to miss crusty old Jim Boeheim when he's gone. He said Rick Pitino was "full of shit" for saying Memphis and Temple would "more than replace" Syracuse, Pitt, and Notre Dame in the big east. Meanwhile, I see Syracuse checks in at #9 in the first poll. Expectations have really gone up for that program the last 5 or 6 years, it seems they always start pretty high in the polls now even when there's minimal buzz around the team. I'm just glad they're somewhat relevant and will play in significant games this year, since we don't get that in football anymore.

[tarcone]

Iowa received no votes? They will end the season in the top 20.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Yet another nice get for Mizzou on the recruiting trail. This time it's 2013 recruit Johnathan Williams III out of Memphis, TN. He selected Mizzou over Michigan St. and Georgetown.

Haith has capitalized extremely well on the program momentum of late. He's now landed three 4-star recruits in the past four months. Love to see the wins keep the talent coming in.

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by tarcone

Iowa received no votes? They will end the season in the top 20.

And you will end the season with something I wrote as your signature.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

SEC pre-season all-conference teams and finish predictions are out. A bit surprised that Florida was picked in front of Mizzou. Phil Pressey was selected pre-season Player of the Year.

http://www.secdigitalnetwork.com/NEW...-champion.aspx

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

SLU, VCU, Butler, and St. Joseph's in the "Others Receiving Votes" section. It's going to be a murderous year in the A10.

Perfect for the A-10. If any of those teams (or us) get some early wins they'll be in by early December, but there isn't one pre-ordained standard-bearer that would look bad for the conference if they stumbled. (I'm thinking of SLU even more now with Kwamain Mitchell's injury.) One thing I do worry about is SLU (when mitchell gets back for conference play), Temple and Xavier (with lots of new faces) struggling non-conference, then playing much tougher late in the season and playing spoiler to knock one or two A-10 teams off the bubble.

Originally Posted by molson

I'm sure going to miss crusty old Jim Boeheim when he's gone. He said Rick Pitino was "full of shit" for saying Memphis and Temple would "more than replace" Syracuse, Pitt, and Notre Dame in the big east. Meanwhile, I see Syracuse checks in at #9 in the first poll. Expectations have really gone up for that program the last 5 or 6 years, it seems they always start pretty high in the polls now even when there's minimal buzz around the team. I'm just glad they're somewhat relevant and will play in significant games this year, since we don't get that in football anymore.

I like that Boeheim said that, but from Pitino (and Louisville's) perspective, he's kind of right. Playing Memphis probably means more to that fanbase than the other 4, and Temple has a pretty strong track record the past 20 years. Losing Syracuse and Pitt really hurts the Villanova/St. John's/Providence/Seton Hall's more than Louisville/Cincinnati.

(It's cherry-picking the most favorable statistic, but fwiw Temple and Memphis have combined for 9 Elite 8's in the last 25 years, Cuse/Pitt/ND? 5)

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Is UCLA going to have anyone left for the first game? Two guys who haven't been declared eligible and two injuries before the season starts. Now their prize recruit (who isn't even eligible yet) injures his shoulder.

Shabazz Muhammad of UCLA Bruins injured his right shoulder during practice - ESPN Los Angeles

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Is UCLA going to have anyone left for the first game? Two guys who haven't been declared eligible and two injuries before the season starts. Now their prize recruit (who isn't even eligible yet) injures his shoulder.

Shabazz Muhammad of UCLA Bruins injured his right shoulder during practice - ESPN Los Angeles

Yeah, it has been a rough stretch. It's looking like we'll have six scholie players for the first game--which will also be the re-opening of the renovated Pauley Pavillion (which, from what I have heard, looks amazing now, BTW).

[digamma]

Does Mizzou always play such a soft non-conference schedule?

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by digamma

Does Mizzou always play such a soft non-conference schedule?

(This is what is known in the business as "poking the bear")

SI

[Marmel]

Originally Posted by digamma

Does Mizzou always play such a soft non-conference schedule?

You think that is soft? Have you looked at their conference schedule??

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by digamma

Does Mizzou always play such a soft non-conference schedule?

You and I have a different definition of 'soft'. In Atlantis, we face the toughest exempt tournament field you'll find this year. All eight teams are expected to make the NCAA tournament field. We'll likely face Stanford, Louisville, and then either Duke/Memphis in the third game.

After that, we have a three game stretch before conference play that includes the Braggin' Rights game, @UCLA (first good opponent to visit the new Pauley Pavilion), and then a home game against a very good Bucknell squad.

ESPN rated MU's non-conference schedule the 4th toughest in the conference.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

(This is what is known in the business as "poking the bear")

SI

Or a lack of basketball knowledge. We'll go with your definition to be nice.

[digamma]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

You and I have a different definition of 'soft'. In Atlantis, we face the toughest exempt tournament field you'll find this year. All eight teams are expected to make the NCAA tournament field. We'll likely face Stanford, Louisville, and then either Duke/Memphis in the third game.

After that, we have a three game stretch before conference play that includes the Braggin' Rights game, @UCLA (first good opponent to visit the new Pauley Pavilion), and then a home game against a very good Bucknell squad.

ESPN rated MU's non-conference schedule the 4th toughest in the conference.

Do you actually believe the stuff you type? Do you type it with a straight face?

Your team plays in a tournament. Great. You could end up playing Stanford, Louisville and Duke. Or you could end up playing Stanford, Northern Iowa and VCU.

And you play a rivalry game. Also, great. Unfortunately, for your strength of schedule, your rival is coming off a 6-12 conference finish and is in the first year under a new head coach.

And you play one other BCS team on the road. I will give you credit for that.

Of the team's on your schedule (not who you could play), you play one ranked non-conference opponent: UCLA. I'd call that pretty average scheduling.

But that's not really the issue. The issue is what you're doing with the rest of the non-conference schedule. It's wretched.

Bucknell is ok and Tennessee State had a decent year last year. Other than that, it is all 250+ RPI teams (OK, so Southeastern Missouri was 248th). You're not just playing teams from weak conferences. You're playing the weakest teams from weak conferences. 6 games against high 200 RPI teams, two of these are 300+.

Where do I sign up to see that home slate?

And fourth toughest non-conference schedule in the league? That's worth touting? Five of your fellow conference teams play no ranked teams out of conference (preseason, of course). Four others are like you and play one ranked team. And three play more than one ranked team, Kentucky leading the way playing 4, Florida 3 and Arkansas 2. So, you're grading with a pretty severe curve here. As long as we're being "nice," we'll give Mizzou the gentleman's C in scheduling.

Have fun at the games. What is a SIUE, anyway?

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Or a lack of basketball knowledge. We'll go with your definition to be nice.

Right.