Alright Boyz, Here We Go!!! NCAA Football 2009 impressions thread - Page 8

Groundhog · 07-03-2008, 11:09 PM

Yeah, I was having an awesome time with the game last year before I noticed that the visors of the defensive backs on my team who kept picking off the AI's passes 7 or 8 times a game were in fact dark instead of clear - a violation of NCAA rules. This completely shattered the illusion of reality for me, and I turned it off before my CB even reached the endzone for the 9th time.

Galaxy · 07-03-2008, 11:24 PM

Sounds like we aren't getting any clear indications. I guess we'll have to wait until it comes out. I wonder if this is why EA says no reviews until the 15th.

DeToxRox · 07-03-2008, 11:32 PM

I'm still all in for 09. I played 08 online with my best friend who lives in NY all the time and had no problems. Now with online dynasty, I'll just be playing that much more with human opponents.

DeToxRox · 07-03-2008, 11:48 PM

Abner posted more:

I stopped the game at halftime because -- hey I'm tired and can't stay up like I used to.

31-7 Ohio State on Heisman. The good news? This had nothing to do with INTs. OSU is just better. In fact the Iowa QB is 13/18 with zero picks in the first half. Woo hoo! I think we need to be careful, though. QBs DO throw picks. Just because we see one doesn't mean we should get upset. There just needs to be a balance to it all.

This was also with QB ACC at (I think) 60. Very promising. But to me it seems clear at least thus far that it's w/o a doubt a Heisman thing. The game just flat plays better on this level and look..I'm killing Iowa so it's not like the AI is going to whip you at this level mercilessly.

Right now my number one concern on this lvl is the return game. I ran a punt back for a TD which was cool but I'm telling you -- it's REALLY easy. Something ain't right with the coverage. I guess if one thing had to be broken...

So I go to bed tonight optimistic. It started off a tad rocky, eh? I will revisit AA lvl with different teams to see how it shakes out but I'm thinking it's Heisman for me this year.

The online dynasty with Todd and Billy Baroo will be a go but I can't test that until the game is out. I do love the feature set for that mode, though. I'll try to post some tomorrow but it being the 4th, we'll have to see. Knowing me...I'll find the time to play a few games

Kodos · 07-04-2008, 01:33 AM

Had a blast playing SirFozzie tonight on '08. Maybe it'll be a just play folks online game. That wouldn't be terrible, if we had a good bunch of guys to play.

RainMaker · 07-04-2008, 01:34 AM

If the shoelaces for UTEP isn't the official black, EA can forget about my money. I don't care about the 8 interceptions a game, I just want realism with my virtual player's shoelaces.

Kodos · 07-04-2008, 01:35 AM

Amen, brother. Amen!

BYU 14 · 07-04-2008, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Yeah, I was having an awesome time with the game last year before I noticed that the visors of the defensive backs on my team who kept picking off the AI's passes 7 or 8 times a game were in fact dark instead of clear - a violation of NCAA rules. This completely shattered the illusion of reality for me, and I turned it off before my CB even reached the endzone for the 9th time.

I hear you GH, oversights like this are ridiculous....On top of the visor issue when I checked my BYU roster I noticed 95% of the players were white...............oh wait.

DeToxRox · 07-04-2008, 09:49 PM

Abner sounds impressed. He said the game is a thing of beauty and that since his first two games with adjustments he isn't having INT problems at all. Take it for what it is worth.

Eaglesfan27 · 07-05-2008, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Abner sounds impressed. He said the game is a thing of beauty and that since his first two games with adjustments he isn't having INT problems at all. Take it for what it is worth.

Those impressions sound wonderful. I think there will probably be an occasional game where the QB gets rattled and throws a ton, but it sounds like the INT slider may actually be working. If it worked last year, I'd still be playing that game now.

Ironhead · 07-05-2008, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Those impressions sound wonderful. I think there will probably be an occasional game where the QB gets rattled and throws a ton, but it sounds like the INT slider may actually be working. If it worked last year, I'd still be playing that game now.

Yep. Really glad to hear they fixed the depth chart bug as well.

kingnebwsu · 07-05-2008, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Those impressions sound wonderful. I think there will probably be an occasional game where the QB gets rattled and throws a ton, but it sounds like the INT slider may actually be working. If it worked last year, I'd still be playing that game now.

Me too. I can't tell you how many games I'd be playing a quality opponent and my offense was struggling, yet I was up 17-0 because of 2 defensive TD's and 3-6 other INT's. I would always think how awful it was that I was ahead because of my inept offense.

Hopefully that will be a thing of the past. 10 more days!

CraigSca · 07-05-2008, 11:52 AM

Yeah, after reading Bill's follow-up impressions, I'm very much looking forward to this one. Fortunately, a business trip that was to run the 16th-18th has been delayed two weeks. Phew!

kingnebwsu · 07-05-2008, 11:58 AM

Crisis averted!

I'm planning to take 2 vacation days the week NCAA comes out. That means I'll have 4 days off instead of 2. Huzzah!!!

(Shakes fist & glares at NCAA 09...don't disappoint me!)

Eaglesfan27 · 07-05-2008, 11:52 PM

Bill has put up another post in which he has proclaimed the INT issue gone with the use of the interception slider, even on AA. However, he is seeing the ghost juke fairly frequently (5 times so far over a few games.) He mentions a few other issues as well, but they are all things that I think will be much less annoying than last year. He also says the gameplay is the most fun so far since 2004.

rowech · 07-06-2008, 07:53 AM

I'm sticking by what I said to my brother after I played the demo. This will be the highest ranked next generation football game.

Logan · 07-06-2008, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Bill has put up another post in which he has proclaimed the INT issue gone with the use of the interception slider, even on AA. However, he is seeing the ghost juke fairly frequently (5 times so far over a few games.) He mentions a few other issues as well, but they are all things that I think will be much less annoying than last year. He also says the gameplay is the most fun so far since 2004.

What does this mean?

Ironhead · 07-06-2008, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Logan

What does this mean?

There has been some times where the CPU had open field for a touchdown and just randomly performed a juke move. This allowed the defender to catch up and make the tackle.

Kodos · 07-06-2008, 12:18 PM

I'll just pretend that they are a relative of Leon Lett, and have taken to showboating at an unfortunate time.

kingnebwsu · 07-06-2008, 12:28 PM

Leon Lett must have a lot of offspring then

Kodos · 07-06-2008, 12:31 PM

As we learned from the Thanksgiving Day game against the Dolphins, Lett would jump on pretty much anything that moved.

kingnebwsu · 07-06-2008, 01:40 PM

/Rimshot

I've been playing the demo almost every day now. My excitement for the new game is reaching a fever pitch. I hope there's nothing gamebreaking in it. Reading Bill Abner's impressions is helpful...but we'll see how things go. Some flaws I can live with, but things like excessive blocked kicks or excessive turnovers (flaws with 07 and 08) would be game-killers for me. We'll see.

9 more days?

Ironhead · 07-06-2008, 04:00 PM

Some kind of announcement is going to be made about the game tonight at 9 PM EST. Nothing regarding a new feature in the game but the developer believes the community will be pleased. I am praying this is a pushed up release date and not something like free mascot pictures.

Galaxy · 07-06-2008, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ironhead

Some kind of announcement is going to be made about the game tonight at 9 PM EST. Nothing regarding a new feature in the game but the developer believes the community will be pleased. I am praying this is a pushed up release date and not something like free mascot pictures.

Maybe they'll announce that the game is suppose to play, gasp, like an actual football game.

Ironhead · 07-06-2008, 04:06 PM

Rats, definitely not about release date.

Eaglesfan27 · 07-06-2008, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ironhead

Rats, definitely not about release date.

Where you reading this? OS?

Ironhead · 07-06-2008, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Where you reading this? OS?

OS mentioned it - the actual announcement is being made over at pastapadre.com so it's not actually from EA. The more I look at it this might just me some kind of mini-publicity stunt by that website. They might just announce something like "Hey, we have a copy of the game and will take questions!" Sure will generate some traffic on their site though.

Eaglesfan27 · 07-06-2008, 05:05 PM

Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised at all if this is just Pasta Padre announcing that he has the game and will take questions. I don't think it would be the first time he has overhyped something.

CraigSca · 07-06-2008, 05:42 PM

Yeah, it's not the developer making the announcement, it's Pasta. He probably has the game early and will be posting videos and stuff. Why he needs to wait until 9pm to do so doesn't make sense to me, however.

DeToxRox · 07-06-2008, 08:03 PM

Wow. Pasta Padres announcement is for the 360 he has rosters done already and available in his EA Locker.

KWhit · 07-06-2008, 08:09 PM

So, I'm coming to realize that I suck at these football games. I need to bone up on my skills before I start playing in these online leagues. Does anyone know of a thread or site where I can learn how to suck less. I need pointers and practice!

Groundhog · 07-06-2008, 08:35 PM

I usually let the CPU playout the games because I suck at passing the ball. Far too often I either get sacked or press the wrong button and pass it to the guy with 2 DBs all over him.

Very glad that this mode is back in for NCAA 09.

kingnebwsu · 07-06-2008, 08:55 PM

Check out operation sports. There are several good (recent) articles for beginners/rookies.

Kodos · 07-06-2008, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KWhit

So, I'm coming to realize that I suck at these football games. I need to bone up on my skills before I start playing in these online leagues. Does anyone know of a thread or site where I can learn how to suck less. I need pointers and practice!

I've been playing some games of NCAA '08 online to knock the rust off. I'd be glad to play you if you likel.

KWhit · 07-06-2008, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kodos

I've been playing some games of NCAA '08 online to knock the rust off. I'd be glad to play you if you likel.

Cool. I can play most any night during the week at around 9:00.

DeToxRox · 07-06-2008, 09:23 PM

Logan and Ironside need tips on how to play too. They suck. Eat it.

SirFozzie · 07-06-2008, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kodos

I've been playing some games of NCAA '08 online to knock the rust off. I'd be glad to play you if you likel.

I'm up for games as well: SirFozzie2 is the nick, if you don't see me there, PM me here

Ironhead · 07-06-2008, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Logan and Ironside need tips on how to play too. They suck. Eat it.

Good enough to whip Colorado's bitch ass with Colorado State last year.

DeToxRox · 07-06-2008, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ironhead

Good enough to whip Colorado's bitch ass with Colorado State last year.

Cheat codes. Sure hope you're not planning on using your Game Genie come league kickoff.

Ironhead · 07-06-2008, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Cheat codes. Sure hope you're not planning on using your Game Genie come league kickoff.

Gonna be different year, same result.

Logan · 07-06-2008, 10:40 PM

Hahahaha.

Kodos · 07-07-2008, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KWhit

Cool. I can play most any night during the week at around 9:00.

9:00 is tough for me because that falls in my son's bedtime window. And I'm the one who always puts him to bed. 10 pm is more workable for me, and 11 pm almost always works if I know in advance.

Groundhog · 07-07-2008, 07:11 PM

I'm so excited about this game.

Why does EA always have to torment me so?

Kodos · 07-08-2008, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kodos

9:00 is tough for me because that falls in my son's bedtime window. And I'm the one who always puts him to bed. 10 pm is more workable for me, and 11 pm almost always works if I know in advance.

I'm heading online right now, if any FOFCers want to play NCAA 08.

Kodos · 07-08-2008, 07:50 PM

Is there anyone online who doesn't select the fastest QB to run playaction, drop back 30 yards, and wait for someone to get open? Everyone I play against who is not from FOFC does this. Tonight, this dude was running up the score and going no huddle when he was way up. Dude, I'm IU, and you're Virginia Tech. Don't think you're good or something. My team just doesn't have the personnel to match up.

Groundhog · 07-08-2008, 07:55 PM

Online play against random opponents in sports games is, in theory, a great idea. In reality, not so much. For every game of Madden or NBA 2K I've played online against an opponent who plays the game without abusing the engine, there are 30 or so others that have.

Kodos · 07-08-2008, 07:59 PM

Yep. Dudes who think beating up on IU with Virginia Tech gives them bigger testicles.

Sun Tzu · 07-08-2008, 08:22 PM

I sold my copy of 08...I'm half tempted to rent it just to get through til the 15th...but I am leaving for Vegas on Saturday morning and not coming back until the night of the 15th. Just have to make it through Saturday!

Regarding online play with Madden/NCAA...it's an absolute joke.

Sun Tzu · 07-08-2008, 08:31 PM

dola

Who is this "Arden" fellow?

kingnebwsu · 07-08-2008, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kodos

Is there anyone online who doesn't select the fastest QB to run playaction, drop back 30 yards, and wait for someone to get open? Everyone I play against who is not from FOFC does this. Tonight, this dude was running up the score and going no huddle when he was way up. Dude, I'm IU, and you're Virginia Tech. Don't think you're good or something. My team just doesn't have the personnel to match up.

So, I guess I should work on my sportsmanship, eh?

07-03-2008, 11:09 PM	#351
Groundhog Coordinator Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Sydney, Australia	Yeah, I was having an awesome time with the game last year before I noticed that the visors of the defensive backs on my team who kept picking off the AI's passes 7 or 8 times a game were in fact dark instead of clear - a violation of NCAA rules. This completely shattered the illusion of reality for me, and I turned it off before my CB even reached the endzone for the 9th time. __________________ Politics, n. Strife of interests masquerading as a contest of principles. --Ambrose Bierce

07-04-2008, 01:33 AM	#355
Kodos Resident Alien Join Date: Jun 2001	Had a blast playing SirFozzie tonight on '08. Maybe it'll be a just play folks online game. That wouldn't be terrible, if we had a good bunch of guys to play. __________________ Author of The Bill Gates Challenge, as well as other groundbreaking dynasties.

07-04-2008, 01:35 AM	#357
Kodos Resident Alien Join Date: Jun 2001	Amen, brother. Amen! __________________ Author of The Bill Gates Challenge, as well as other groundbreaking dynasties.

07-05-2008, 11:52 AM	#363
CraigSca Pro Starter Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Not Delaware - hurray!	Yeah, after reading Bill's follow-up impressions, I'm very much looking forward to this one. Fortunately, a business trip that was to run the 16th-18th has been delayed two weeks. Phew! __________________ She loves you, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah! She loves you, yeah! how do you know? how do you know?

07-05-2008, 11:52 PM	#365
Eaglesfan27 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: New Jersey	Bill has put up another post in which he has proclaimed the INT issue gone with the use of the interception slider, even on AA. However, he is seeing the ghost juke fairly frequently (5 times so far over a few games.) He mentions a few other issues as well, but they are all things that I think will be much less annoying than last year. He also says the gameplay is the most fun so far since 2004. __________________ Retired GM of the eNFL 2007 Super Bowl Champion Philadelphia Eagles (19-0 record.) GM of the WOOF 2006 Doggie Bowl Champion Atlantic City Gamblers. GM of the IHOF 2019 and 2022 IHOF Bowl Champion Asheville Axemen.

07-03-2008, 11:24 PM	#352
Galaxy Coordinator Join Date: Apr 2005	Sounds like we aren't getting any clear indications. I guess we'll have to wait until it comes out. I wonder if this is why EA says no reviews until the 15th.

07-03-2008, 11:32 PM	#353
DeToxRox Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Michigan	I'm still all in for 09. I played 08 online with my best friend who lives in NY all the time and had no problems. Now with online dynasty, I'll just be playing that much more with human opponents.

07-03-2008, 11:48 PM	#354
DeToxRox Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Michigan	Abner posted more: I stopped the game at halftime because -- hey I'm tired and can't stay up like I used to. 31-7 Ohio State on Heisman. The good news? This had nothing to do with INTs. OSU is just better. In fact the Iowa QB is 13/18 with zero picks in the first half. Woo hoo! I think we need to be careful, though. QBs DO throw picks. Just because we see one doesn't mean we should get upset. There just needs to be a balance to it all. This was also with QB ACC at (I think) 60. Very promising. But to me it seems clear at least thus far that it's w/o a doubt a Heisman thing. The game just flat plays better on this level and look..I'm killing Iowa so it's not like the AI is going to whip you at this level mercilessly. Right now my number one concern on this lvl is the return game. I ran a punt back for a TD which was cool but I'm telling you -- it's REALLY easy. Something ain't right with the coverage. I guess if one thing had to be broken... So I go to bed tonight optimistic. It started off a tad rocky, eh? I will revisit AA lvl with different teams to see how it shakes out but I'm thinking it's Heisman for me this year. The online dynasty with Todd and Billy Baroo will be a go but I can't test that until the game is out. I do love the feature set for that mode, though. I'll try to post some tomorrow but it being the 4th, we'll have to see. Knowing me...I'll find the time to play a few games

07-04-2008, 01:34 AM	#356
RainMaker General Manager Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Chicago, IL	If the shoelaces for UTEP isn't the official black, EA can forget about my money. I don't care about the 8 interceptions a game, I just want realism with my virtual player's shoelaces.

07-04-2008, 09:49 PM	#359
DeToxRox Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Michigan	Abner sounds impressed. He said the game is a thing of beauty and that since his first two games with adjustments he isn't having INT problems at all. Take it for what it is worth.

07-05-2008, 11:58 AM	#364
kingnebwsu College Benchwarmer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Ohio	Crisis averted! I'm planning to take 2 vacation days the week NCAA comes out. That means I'll have 4 days off instead of 2. Huzzah!!! (Shakes fist & glares at NCAA 09...don't disappoint me!)

07-06-2008, 07:53 AM	#366
rowech Pro Starter Join Date: Feb 2006	I'm sticking by what I said to my brother after I played the demo. This will be the highest ranked next generation football game.

07-06-2008, 12:18 PM	#369
Kodos Resident Alien Join Date: Jun 2001	I'll just pretend that they are a relative of Leon Lett, and have taken to showboating at an unfortunate time. __________________ Author of The Bill Gates Challenge, as well as other groundbreaking dynasties.

07-06-2008, 12:28 PM	#370
kingnebwsu College Benchwarmer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Ohio	Leon Lett must have a lot of offspring then

07-06-2008, 12:31 PM	#371
Kodos Resident Alien Join Date: Jun 2001	As we learned from the Thanksgiving Day game against the Dolphins, Lett would jump on pretty much anything that moved. __________________ Author of The Bill Gates Challenge, as well as other groundbreaking dynasties.

07-06-2008, 01:40 PM	#372
kingnebwsu College Benchwarmer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Ohio	/Rimshot I've been playing the demo almost every day now. My excitement for the new game is reaching a fever pitch. I hope there's nothing gamebreaking in it. Reading Bill Abner's impressions is helpful...but we'll see how things go. Some flaws I can live with, but things like excessive blocked kicks or excessive turnovers (flaws with 07 and 08) would be game-killers for me. We'll see. 9 more days?

07-06-2008, 04:00 PM	#373
Ironhead College Prospect Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Barnegat, NJ	Some kind of announcement is going to be made about the game tonight at 9 PM EST. Nothing regarding a new feature in the game but the developer believes the community will be pleased. I am praying this is a pushed up release date and not something like free mascot pictures. Last edited by Ironhead : 07-06-2008 at 04:01 PM.

07-06-2008, 04:06 PM	#375
Ironhead College Prospect Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Barnegat, NJ	Rats, definitely not about release date.

07-06-2008, 05:05 PM	#378
Eaglesfan27 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: New Jersey	Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised at all if this is just Pasta Padre announcing that he has the game and will take questions. I don't think it would be the first time he has overhyped something. __________________ Retired GM of the eNFL 2007 Super Bowl Champion Philadelphia Eagles (19-0 record.) GM of the WOOF 2006 Doggie Bowl Champion Atlantic City Gamblers. GM of the IHOF 2019 and 2022 IHOF Bowl Champion Asheville Axemen.

07-06-2008, 05:42 PM	#379
CraigSca Pro Starter Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Not Delaware - hurray!	Yeah, it's not the developer making the announcement, it's Pasta. He probably has the game early and will be posting videos and stuff. Why he needs to wait until 9pm to do so doesn't make sense to me, however. __________________ She loves you, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah! She loves you, yeah! how do you know? how do you know?

07-06-2008, 08:03 PM	#380
DeToxRox Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Michigan	Wow. Pasta Padres announcement is for the 360 he has rosters done already and available in his EA Locker.

07-06-2008, 08:09 PM	#381
KWhit Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Conyers GA	So, I'm coming to realize that I suck at these football games. I need to bone up on my skills before I start playing in these online leagues. Does anyone know of a thread or site where I can learn how to suck less. I need pointers and practice!

07-06-2008, 08:35 PM	#382
Groundhog Coordinator Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Sydney, Australia	I usually let the CPU playout the games because I suck at passing the ball. Far too often I either get sacked or press the wrong button and pass it to the guy with 2 DBs all over him. Very glad that this mode is back in for NCAA 09. __________________ Politics, n. Strife of interests masquerading as a contest of principles. --Ambrose Bierce

07-06-2008, 08:55 PM	#383
kingnebwsu College Benchwarmer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Ohio	Check out operation sports. There are several good (recent) articles for beginners/rookies.

07-06-2008, 09:23 PM	#386
DeToxRox Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Michigan	Logan and Ironside need tips on how to play too. They suck. Eat it.

07-06-2008, 10:40 PM	#391
Logan Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: NYC	Hahahaha.

07-07-2008, 07:11 PM	#393
Groundhog Coordinator Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Sydney, Australia	I'm so excited about this game. Why does EA always have to torment me so? __________________ Politics, n. Strife of interests masquerading as a contest of principles. --Ambrose Bierce

07-08-2008, 07:50 PM	#395
Kodos Resident Alien Join Date: Jun 2001	Is there anyone online who doesn't select the fastest QB to run playaction, drop back 30 yards, and wait for someone to get open? Everyone I play against who is not from FOFC does this. Tonight, this dude was running up the score and going no huddle when he was way up. Dude, I'm IU, and you're Virginia Tech. Don't think you're good or something. My team just doesn't have the personnel to match up. __________________ Author of The Bill Gates Challenge, as well as other groundbreaking dynasties.

07-08-2008, 07:55 PM	#396
Groundhog Coordinator Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Sydney, Australia	Online play against random opponents in sports games is, in theory, a great idea. In reality, not so much. For every game of Madden or NBA 2K I've played online against an opponent who plays the game without abusing the engine, there are 30 or so others that have. __________________ Politics, n. Strife of interests masquerading as a contest of principles. --Ambrose Bierce

07-08-2008, 07:59 PM	#397
Kodos Resident Alien Join Date: Jun 2001	Yep. Dudes who think beating up on IU with Virginia Tech gives them bigger testicles. __________________ Author of The Bill Gates Challenge, as well as other groundbreaking dynasties.

07-08-2008, 08:22 PM	#398
Sun Tzu Pro Starter Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: In the thick of it.	I sold my copy of 08...I'm half tempted to rent it just to get through til the 15th...but I am leaving for Vegas on Saturday morning and not coming back until the night of the 15th. Just have to make it through Saturday! Regarding online play with Madden/NCAA...it's an absolute joke. __________________ I'm still here. Don't touch my fucking bacon.

07-08-2008, 08:31 PM	#399
Sun Tzu Pro Starter Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: In the thick of it.	dola Who is this "Arden" fellow? __________________ I'm still here. Don't touch my fucking bacon.

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