The 2013-2014 NFL Offseason/Coaching/Free Agency (non-draft) Thread

[JPhillips]

Hard to imagine that Harbaugh might be difficult to get along with. He's always so humble and friendly in interviews.

[chadritt]

He's just a competitor after all. He's no thug.

[Matthean]

Clowney benched 21 reps at the combine. 13 DL did lower. 36 did more. I keep getting the impression Clowney is inconsistent in his play and his lower strength might be why.

[Julio Riddols]

God told him to not participate at the combine. Is this an orchestrated move by Carroll to get this kid to go undrafted?

[Julio Riddols]

I just find it insanely hard to believe a guy would exhibit such obvious signs of mental illness without actually being mentally ill.

[chadritt]

Has anyone checked to see if he IS mentally ill? I mean...hes at one of the major age ranges for that stuff to start happening.

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by Matthean

Clowney benched 21 reps at the combine. 13 DL did lower. 36 did more. I keep getting the impression Clowney is inconsistent in his play and his lower strength might be why.

But apparently his 40 was super-fast. Who knows?

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by Matthean

Clowney benched 21 reps at the combine. 13 DL did lower. 36 did more. I keep getting the impression Clowney is inconsistent in his play and his lower strength might be why.

I think he is going to get eaten up at the pro level.

[henry296]

Originally Posted by Matthean

Clowney benched 21 reps at the combine. 13 DL did lower. 36 did more. I keep getting the impression Clowney is inconsistent in his play and his lower strength might be why.

I saw a good point on Twitter that Robert Quinn only did 22 reps last year and has done well so far.

[CU Tiger]

I helped coach JC at the pop warner level and have watched him every year since. (He wend to JR hi, intermediate and HS with a good friend's son)

He has more natural athletic talent than any individual I have ever known and Ive been around some Hall of Fame NFL guys.

He probably has a worse attitude and work ethic than any other individual Ive ever known as well.

I know for a fact that his HS coach sat him down at one point during his JR year and told him he was running the risk of ruining his opportunity to "Escape"...JC responded by throwing a tantrum and telling the coach he was jealous of him and a "piece of shit"...this was minutes after said coach had convinced both the local PD and the school principal to ignore a pretty serious issue on campus.

From a mentor who is still very close to him: "He still glorifies the "gangsta" life style and thinks being a badass is what matter in life. When we were prepping for the combine interviews I tried to coach a few responses and he replied 'Fuck them old faggots. If they dont wanna draft me someone will and I'll shit on them every time we play. I aint kissing no ass for no one.' That's waht we are dealing with and why he is such a toss up."

IMO if he finds a Reggie White type mentor or a Ray Lewis type...a guy that is a certified badass but also has a focus and an inner peace he has a chance to set every sack record imagineable. He also has the chance to be out of the league in 2 years and slinging drugs or in jail just as easily.

[molson]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

this was minutes after said coach had convinced both the local PD and the school principal to ignore a pretty serious issue on campus.

Hard to imagine how he could develop a sense of entitlement.

[Matthean]

Kind of fits my thinking of how he played against Michigan. He wasn't really note worthy in the game until late and then suddenly people can't stop talking about him. It's like he showed up only when he needed to. I think not going 1st would be the best thing for him.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

I helped coach JC at the pop warner level and have watched him every year since. (He wend to JR hi, intermediate and HS with a good friend's son)

He has more natural athletic talent than any individual I have ever known and Ive been around some Hall of Fame NFL guys.

He probably has a worse attitude and work ethic than any other individual Ive ever known as well.

I know for a fact that his HS coach sat him down at one point during his JR year and told him he was running the risk of ruining his opportunity to "Escape"...JC responded by throwing a tantrum and telling the coach he was jealous of him and a "piece of shit"...this was minutes after said coach had convinced both the local PD and the school principal to ignore a pretty serious issue on campus.

From a mentor who is still very close to him: "He still glorifies the "gangsta" life style and thinks being a badass is what matter in life. When we were prepping for the combine interviews I tried to coach a few responses and he replied 'Fuck them old faggots. If they dont wanna draft me someone will and I'll shit on them every time we play. I aint kissing no ass for no one.' That's waht we are dealing with and why he is such a toss up."

IMO if he finds a Reggie White type mentor or a Ray Lewis type...a guy that is a certified badass but also has a focus and an inner peace he has a chance to set every sack record imagineable. He also has the chance to be out of the league in 2 years and slinging drugs or in jail just as easily.

I just don't see how giving this guy a huge amount of money for just signing his name is going to be conducive to him working harder? He seems like another multi-million dollar talent with a ten-cent head.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by molson

Hard to imagine how he could develop a sense of entitlement.

Hah - yep. Stop enabling these kids.

Based on your description of him CU I'm betting bigger on "out of the league" then "break every sack record."

Maybe not in 2 years, because we all know the NFL is big on giving second and third chances (unless he ends up in legal trouble in this new era NFL), but in 5 years...yeah.

[Julio Riddols]

I nearly bought into the Clowney hype until I watched him play. What he has put on tape hasn't been that great compared to other guys who have been double teamed and schemed against in their college careers but still performed. His work ethic became a major concern to me after early this season, where it really seemed like he was mailing it in. He has all the signs of a guy that seems entirely content to rest on his laurels and be complacent instead of having a deep desire to succeed. I wouldn't draft him, period. There are a lot of guys out there who want it more and will be better because of it.

[Julio Riddols]

Manziel on the other hand, I think he is a guy that will have some Jake Plummer like success in the NFL. He's going to be fun to watch. I also like Blake Bortles throwing in the combine for the love of competition. Gotta love players like that.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by Julio Riddols

Manziel on the other hand, I think he is a guy that will have some Jake Plummer like success in the NFL. He's going to be fun to watch. I also like Blake Bortles throwing in the combine for the love of competition. Gotta love players like that.

I think he's either a Hall of Famer or an epic bust. Not sure there's really any in between with him.

[stevew]

I hope Clowney falls all the way to like 15th and then becomes the next great steeler 3/4 OLB

[cartman]

I thought this might have been from The Onion, but it is real. Good luck with that, pal.

Lobbyist drafts bill to ban gays from NFL | TheHill

[judicial clerk]

The story above about Clowney is not reassuring but it is not a complete deal breaker. I dont know if the Texans have a defensive leader who could bring Clowney along. Ray Lewis and Reggie White are great examples of he kind of leader this guy needs because they eclipse him in talent. A current player who comes to mind that, while maybe not a vocal leader, could show Clowney how to do it right is James Harrison.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by cartman

I thought this might have been from The Onion, but it is real. Good luck with that, pal.

Lobbyist drafts bill to ban gays from NFL | TheHill

Next stop: the 1950's!

[flere-imsaho]

Re: Clowney: has there been a player who has had an above average career (or better) in the NFL who also mainly coasted solely on his natural talent? I'm not suggesting there is or isn't, just interested in who FOFC might come up with.

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by stevew

I hope Clowney falls all the way to like 15th and then becomes the next great steeler 3/4 OLB

Fuck no. There's too big of a risk that he's Albert Haynesworth, Part II. I think if Harrison were in his prime he might be able to keep a guy like Clowney in shape. But the leaders on the Steelers defense just aren't there right now. Clark is probably gone and Keisel may be too. Foote may also be history. Troy isn't a vocal guy. Neither is Ike. Woodley can't even stay on the field. So who on the defense keeps this guy in check? Heyward perhaps in a couple of years, but not yet. There's just a void of strong leadership right now and it's probably the worst possible time to bring in a potential head case.

Clowney has amazing ability. But I think the personality risk may be too high. Even Spurrier bad-mouthed his work ethic.

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

Re: Clowney: has there been a player who has had an above average career (or better) in the NFL who also mainly coasted solely on his natural talent? I'm not suggesting there is or isn't, just interested in who FOFC might come up with.

Randy Moss and Albert Haynesworth for starters.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

Re: Clowney: has there been a player who has had an above average career (or better) in the NFL who also mainly coasted solely on his natural talent? I'm not suggesting there is or isn't, just interested in who FOFC might come up with.

I don't know how true the stories are, but you hear about how Lawrence Taylor would do hard drugs during the week and then show up and play on Sunday.

I also have the sense that Michael Irvin would pretty much party all offseason when other players would be working out.

In general, though, I think that the number of "can't miss" talents who miss because of attitude far outweigh the number who make it in spite of attitude.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

I helped coach JC at the pop warner level and have watched him every year since. (He wend to JR hi, intermediate and HS with a good friend's son)

He has more natural athletic talent than any individual I have ever known and Ive been around some Hall of Fame NFL guys.

He probably has a worse attitude and work ethic than any other individual Ive ever known as well.

I know for a fact that his HS coach sat him down at one point during his JR year and told him he was running the risk of ruining his opportunity to "Escape"...JC responded by throwing a tantrum and telling the coach he was jealous of him and a "piece of shit"...this was minutes after said coach had convinced both the local PD and the school principal to ignore a pretty serious issue on campus.

From a mentor who is still very close to him: "He still glorifies the "gangsta" life style and thinks being a badass is what matter in life. When we were prepping for the combine interviews I tried to coach a few responses and he replied 'Fuck them old faggots. If they dont wanna draft me someone will and I'll shit on them every time we play. I aint kissing no ass for no one.' That's waht we are dealing with and why he is such a toss up."

IMO if he finds a Reggie White type mentor or a Ray Lewis type...a guy that is a certified badass but also has a focus and an inner peace he has a chance to set every sack record imagineable. He also has the chance to be out of the league in 2 years and slinging drugs or in jail just as easily.

This reminds me of something that someone here (JiMidGA?) said a few years ago about Jonathan Sullivan--a player in whom I was interested b/c the Saints drafted him sixth overall. Almost unspeakable talent in high school. But no sense of direction or motivation. And, after a few horrible pro seasons and a failed attempt at redemption with the Patriots, he was out of the league.

[albionmoonlight]

double dola:

Assuming that Clowney really does come off as such a big risk to the teams, I think that the new CBA still means he will be drafted high (i.e top five). The fact that any team taking a chance on him will not have to pay him a cap-breaking signing bonus makes teams much more likely to take that chance.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

Re: Clowney: has there been a player who has had an above average career (or better) in the NFL who also mainly coasted solely on his natural talent? I'm not suggesting there is or isn't, just interested in who FOFC might come up with.

Mike Vick.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Blackadar

Fuck no. There's too big of a risk that he's Albert Haynesworth, Part II.

Clowney has amazing ability. But I think the personality risk may be too high. Even Spurrier bad-mouthed his work ethic.

I agree he's a great example of coasting on natural talent, but Albert Haynesworth was a great pick for 15th overall. He made multiple pro bowls and won DPOY on his initial contract with the Titans. Now, he was possibly the biggest FA bust in history, but at least the Titans didn't get stuck with that part. Just for comparison, in that draft the 3 DT's picked ahead of Haynesworth were Ryan Sims, John Henderson (good) and Wendell Bryant. The 4 picks after Haynesworth were William Green, Phillip Buchanon, TJ Duckett and Ashley Lelie. 1st overall was David Carr, Joey Harrington went 3rd.

I would skip Clowney at the top, and yeah I'm not sure I'd want to root for him on my team, but if he did fall to the 15th pick area teams would be idiots to pass him up.

[cartman]

Interesting read on draft analysis.

NFL daft: A partial history of draft day's terrible decisions and total failures - SBNation.com

[Travis]

So how good/bad of a situation would it be for him to go to Houston and be mentored by Watt and Cushing? On the field that could be ridiculous, but I don't know nearly enough about those two to have any idea of whether they'd provide the best chance for him to, well, grow up.

On the flip side, most of those in the 5 that need DE (ie: not the Rams) don't seem like great landing spots for him to mature. Will also be interesting to see if the Falcons try to get him in a similar fashion to how they got Julio.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by cartman

Interesting read on draft analysis.

NFL daft: A partial history of draft day's terrible decisions and total failures - SBNation.com

This was awesome. Should not be glanced over. Some of the graphs are staggering.

This one might be my favorite...sorry Lions fans:

[DaddyTorgo]

so 60% of the time the random draft was better? That's great.

[DaddyTorgo]

SBnation can have some junk, but that's a great article.

LOL

Originally Posted by article

3. The rules of NFL drafts apply to every team but the Patriots.


I took those figures above and plotted them against how much success each team found over the next five seasons. As one would expect, they're sprinkled diagonally: by and large, teams that drafted better won more games, and teams that drafted poorly lost more.

Bill Belichick's Patriots are the only team to exist outside of these rules. Their middle rounds were littered with guys who did nothing, or next to nothing, in the NFL. Their draft success ranked in the bottom third of the league during these seasons.

But even in 2009, those guys made up a large chunk of the roster. Nearly a third of the roster was made up of guys who were never drafted at all; the Patriots signed them for cheap and plugged them right in.

The rest of us mortals are confined by the oppression of common logic, our feet held to the ground by laws that stood for millions of years before anyone came around to write them. Bill Belichick is confined by none of them. He is a wizard whose command of elements real and abstract stretches beyond time, space, or any other dimension that the universe fecklessly tosses at his feet, like a single sandbag against a high tide. One day he will run out of idle curiosity, leave football, teleport to the Seahorse Nebula, and cook stews in the craters of unseen planets until animals crawl out. For now, he is content to outsmart your favorite team into oblivion.

He is the best. And now, the worst.

[stevew]

new cap number could go as high as 135million. Dudes are going to get PAID.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by stevew

new cap number could go as high as 135million. Dudes are going to get PAID.

I don't usually follow cap/offseason stuff terribly closely. Does this mean that Carolina is going to be able to keep Greg Hardy, or are the upcoming deals required for Newton and others still too big a barrier?

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Radii

I don't usually follow cap/offseason stuff terribly closely. Does this mean that Carolina is going to be able to keep Greg Hardy, or are the upcoming deals required for Newton and others still too big a barrier?

From some article I read they are 29-32m under and can still redo Johnson. They can easily do Hardy for 100m and give Cam a market deal(120m+) and they still have more cap room.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by stevew

From some article I read they are 29-32m under and can still redo Johnson. They can easily do Hardy for 100m and give Cam a market deal(120m+) and they still have more cap room.

Why would they redo Newton now when they still have the fourth year of his rookie deal and the fifth year option to go? Add the franchise tag on top and they still have at least three seasons where they control his rights.

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by stevew

From some article I read they are 29-32m under and can still redo Johnson. They can easily do Hardy for 100m and give Cam a market deal(120m+) and they still have more cap room.

EDIT: Carolina was $14m under the projected cap, but they freed up more space today with the retirement of Jordan Gross and restructuring contracts. They now have about $28m in cap room. That will allow them to franchise or sign Hardy, extend Cam and sign their draft class. They can also pick up a few moderate FAs and can save a couple more million by cutting DeAngelo Williams.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

Why would they redo Newton now when they still have the fourth year of his rookie deal and the fifth year option to go? Add the franchise tag on top and they still have at least three seasons where they control his rights.

Cause you aren't going to get ahead in this league if you treat players like meat.


I got 32 under by counting the potential for a 35m cap.

Also they carried over like 6m which is why they've been better than one might think.

[stevew]

For reference sake, the last #1 overall pick who got a worse contract than Cam Newton was Orlando Pace. I think the Panthers can use the remaining control on him in order to set negotiation parameters. First 4 years should count about 61m in guaranteed money(yr 4 salary + yr5 bonus + 2 franchise tags). Pad it up with incentives and you offer 120/6, he wants 150/6 and you meet in the middle somewhere. Do the deal before someone inflates the market with Homer Bailey type money.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

SBnation can have some junk, but that's a great article.

LOL

Pats should probably get a little more credit for trading picks for Wes Welker and Randy Moss in there, but yeah those were some lean drafting years.

[Logan]

Enjoyed this story as it's good to see these guys realistically plan and get ready for a post football future:

Matt Elam Explains Why He Took Job At Finish Line

[JPhillips]

Apparently Clowney did well in interviews and looks locked into the top five picks.

[Kodos]

Doom on whoever picks him!

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Apparently Clowney did well in interviews and looks locked into the top five picks.

Originally Posted by Kodos

Doom on whoever picks him!

So he can act nice for fifteen minute increments? I hope whoever takes him has a strong coaching staff and veteran defensive leaders in the locker room.

[mrtourette]

Judging him on a fifteen-minute inverview is just as dumb as judging him on how many reps he can do.

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Apparently Clowney did well in interviews and looks locked into the top five picks.

Outside of him completely tanking the interviews, he was a Top 5 pick anyway.

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by Matthean

Outside of him completely tanking the interviews, he was a Top 5 pick anyway.

Yup. And there's no limit to his ability - if he's semi-focused, he'll dominate.

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by Blackadar

Yup. And there's no limit to his ability - if he's semi-focused, he'll dominate.

Agree to a point.
He has the talent to be a Hall Of Famer (barring injury of course) ut I heard a sports talk guy in Columbia the other day suggest that JC would have 25+ sacks HIS ROOKIE SEASON...he was not joking either. He said he will be motivated and get "at least 1 every game"....these kind of expectations are crazy as hell and unobtainable.

He has the ability to be great... I dont think he has the heart. I hope I am wrong.