The 2013-2014 NFL Offseason/Coaching/Free Agency (non-draft) Thread

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by stevew

Dola
Mitchell got at least 5 fines last year for penalties. Just when we finally ditch Ryan Clark it's time to bring in yet another personal foul machine.

He was called for a grand total of 3 penalties last year. 2 were personal fouls. I don't think that makes him a personal foul machine. Just FYI, I watched him last year at Carolina. His fines weren't big either - ticky-tack stuff. He also didn't get fined after mid-October, so he must have learned to tone it down just a bit.

[PilotMan]

I think it's a good move. It keep Thomas from having to step up too soon. If Troy can have another solid, injury free year it'll be totally worth it.

[miked]

I guess Logan Ryan will be the man in NE. Amazing that they could potentially start 3 RU players in their secondary.

[Ronnie Dobbs3]

Originally Posted by miked

I guess Logan Ryan will be the man in NE. Amazing that they could potentially start 3 RU players in their secondary.

Really like Logan Ryan. But come on, FA has been going on for 17.5 hours now.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by Draft Dodger

I think Denver will end up regretting the Talib move.

I disagree. First we have taken the one defensive player from our biggest in conference competition that was extremely effective against our passing game. I think even with the Pats signing one of the remaining big name CBs I still prefer our chances against that group. Also, if Talib pans out over the long haul they are set along with Chris Harris for a long time at CB and now safety too and if not we are supposed only on the hook for threes of the six year deal the number that matters as usual is 26 million not the $57.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Galaril

I disagree. First we have taken the one defensive player from our biggest in conference competition that was extremely effective against our passing game. I think even with the Pats signing one of the remaining big name CBs I still prefer our chances against that group. Also, if Talib pans out over the long haul they are set along with Chris Harris for a long time at CB and now safety too and if not we are supposed only on the hook for threes of the six year deal the number that matters as usual is 26 million not the $57.

I agree with Galaril unfortunately.

[Ronnie Dobbs3]

Surprise, surprise.

The same folks will bitch, the wheel in the sky will keep on turning, and the Pats will contend for a Super Bowl.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs3

Surprise, surprise.

The same folks will bitch, the wheel in the sky will keep on turning, and the Pats will contend for a Super Bowl.

I sure hope so.

I am the resident Chicken Little fan though, so like you said, surprise surprise.

You can't argue with the fact that they went into FA needing to ADD a CB though, and so far they've lost their #1 and added none.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Blackadar

He was called for a grand total of 3 penalties last year. 2 were personal fouls. I don't think that makes him a personal foul machine. Just FYI, I watched him last year at Carolina. His fines weren't big either - ticky-tack stuff. He also didn't get fined after mid-October, so he must have learned to tone it down just a bit.

I had a hard time finding out exactly how many penalties he had after calling out the Commish for "pocketing the fine money." Sounds like a rocket scientist that will fit well on our 8-8 machine we're building in perpetuity.

[Ronnie Dobbs3]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

You can't argue with the fact that they went into FA needing to ADD a CB though

Disagree. Ryan, Dennard, Arrington + a hole which will be filled

[Ronnie Dobbs3]

Originally Posted by Galaril

the number that matters as usual is 26 million not the $57.

Which is the most guaranteed to a CB, ever.

[jeff061]

Originally Posted by Galaril

I disagree. First we have taken the one defensive player from our biggest in conference competition that was extremely effective against our passing game. I think even with the Pats signing one of the remaining big name CBs I still prefer our chances against that group. Also, if Talib pans out over the long haul they are set along with Chris Harris for a long time at CB and now safety too and if not we are supposed only on the hook for threes of the six year deal the number that matters as usual is 26 million not the $57.

I think everyone agrees if the Talib signing pans out over the long haul it will, by definition really, be a good signing.

Given his personal and physical issues over the course of his entire career that's a massive if. Also 26 million is a huge number.

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by stevew

I had a hard time finding out exactly how many penalties he had after calling out the Commish for "pocketing the fine money." Sounds like a rocket scientist that will fit well on our 8-8 machine we're building in perpetuity.

Two. One on 12/8 for pass interference (5 yards) and one on 1/12 for unnecessary roughness.

He doesn't need to be a rocket scientist. He needs to be a football player. Seriously, have you even seen him play? Or are you just grousing because he's not some washed-up but bigger named player?

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs3

Disagree. Ryan, Dennard, Arrington + a hole which will be filled

So who's your #1 corner? Dennard?

I've seen enough of Arrington to last a lifetime. No more on my team's field please.

[stevew]

I half watched like 6-8 Panthers games last year. I'm sure he's a decent enough player. I mainly watch offense. Really don't have much hope in what this team is doing though. I'd much rather take one "pain" type year and fix all the cap issues instead of this constant slow descent into irrelevance we got going on.

Bottom line, yes, safety is a need. Price seems a bit high but everything is expensive now.

[Ronnie Dobbs3]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

So who's your #1 corner? Dennard?

I've seen enough of Arrington to last a lifetime. No more on my team's field please.

Again, Arrington is an excellent slot corner. Keep him to that.

#1 is the hole to be filled. You said we needed a corner BEFORE FA began. We only need to replace Talib.

[Ronnie Dobbs3]

The Broncos look great now, and are surely going all in. It's a perfectly acceptable strategy. What happens when Harris, Miller, and the Thomases need to be extended and there's no room?

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by stevew

I half watched like 6-8 Panthers games last year. I'm sure he's a decent enough player. I mainly watch offense. Really don't have much hope in what this team is doing though. I'd much rather take one "pain" type year and fix all the cap issues instead of this constant slow descent into irrelevance we got going on.

Bottom line, yes, safety is a need. Price seems a bit high but everything is expensive now.

They're coming out of cap hell. In retrospect they should have done it a couple of years ago, but they decided to give it one more shot after losing to GB in the Super Bowl and that cost them down the road. Can't really fault them for that. The fans would have screamed had they broken up the team after that game. But those extensions pushed a lot of money into future years and that has hurt the last couple of years. Perhaps Keenan Lewis was the only real loss in that time frame, but it also prevented them from signing anyone of substance.

They had enough money to make a splash now, will have another $8m after June 1. They have enough dough to get Al Woods or Wood back if they want to keep either. Worilds will resign at a number less than $9m and that will free up some space too, probably used to sign Pouncey long-term. The cap is projected to go as high as $160m in a couple of years, meaning that they're in good shape down the road. They won't have a huge amount in cap space to spend on FAs, but at least the Steelers aren't having to do this year what they've had to do the past couple of years in terms of forcing restructured contracts simply for cap space...which is why Woodley is so much dead money now.

So in other words, the worst of that is behind them. As far as what the team is doing, they're doing what I've expected. Woodley couldn't stay healthy nor was in great shape, so they cut him loose. Clark is past his sell-by date, so they cut him loose. Ike took his pay cut. Troy and Health were extended so they can retire Steelers. They just filled a huge hole at safety so they can concentrate on CB, DL, LB, TE and WR in the draft. The next step is to resign McLendon at NT and get Worilds signed long term to reduce his cap hit. After that they'll get a DE (either Al Woods, Ziggy or someone else), extend Ben and *maybe* get Pouncey signed long term (his injury history is a problem). I figure on them bringing in a WR later (post June 1) and a backup OL (probably resign Cody Wallace).

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs3

Again, Arrington is an excellent slot corner. Keep him to that.

#1 is the hole to be filled. You said we needed a corner BEFORE FA began. We only need to replace Talib.

Problem is their lack of depth means they've consistently been unable to keep Arrington to the slot later in the year. Which is a huge weakness.

I would have argued even if they kept Talib they could have used another corner (maybe not a #1, but a #2). Now that he's gone I think they need a #1 and say a #2 or more realistically a #3 (if you want to say Dennard is a #2).

[Thomkal]

I like the Mitchell signing by Pittsburgh. Was surprised the Panthers didn't work harder to try to keep him. The secondary was pretty awful in the early part of last season-lot of injuries and lack of talent. Mitchell came out of nowhere really to help solidify the defense.

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

I like the Mitchell signing by Pittsburgh. Was surprised the Panthers didn't work harder to try to keep him. The secondary was pretty awful in the early part of last season-lot of injuries and lack of talent. Mitchell came out of nowhere really to help solidify the defense.

Details on the Mitchell deal. 5 years, $25m. $4.75m bonus, salaries $750,000, $2m, $5m, $5m, $5m. His cap hit is $1.7m and $2.95m over the next two years.

It's a great deal for the Steelers. If he doesn't pan out, he's only $2.85m in cap money if they cut him after two years. No fuss, no muss. If he does, the cap is expected to jump and $5.95m isn't out of bounds for a good starter or they just extend him at that point to a 4 or 5 year deal. Since he's currently 26, he'll be only 28 after the 2016 season meaning that if he does pan out and they do extend him, they'll be doing so during the prime of his career. It's a very low risk, high-reward deal for them. The Steelers almost never make moves early in FA, so you have to think this guy is an ideal fit for their system if they went and got him on Day 1.

EDIT: Of course, it is entirely possible that since I haven't seen the Steelers make moves on Day 1 in such a long time that I'm just overreacting to this signing.

[cuervo72]

Chris Cooley has been doing position-by-position rundowns of the FA pool on his DC radio show, and had Mitchell high on his S list. Thought he was a solid player that wouldn't cost all that much.

[Ronnie Dobbs3]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Problem is their lack of depth means they've consistently been unable to keep Arrington to the slot later in the year. Which is a huge weakness.

I would have argued even if they kept Talib they could have used another corner (maybe not a #1, but a #2). Now that he's gone I think they need a #1 and say a #2 or more realistically a #3 (if you want to say Dennard is a #2).

So you don't want Dennard or Ryan starting?

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Chris Cooley has been doing position-by-position rundowns of the FA pool on his DC radio show, and had Mitchell high on his S list. Thought he was a solid player that wouldn't cost all that much.

Cooley rubs me the wrong way something fierce, but when he starts talking film room stuff, I want to cuddle with him. I have no idea if he's completely full of shit (which I semi-suspect) but he's very good at talking about it.

[cuervo72]

He does me, too (never mind his reliance on the term "impactful"). He's a little too bro, I think. Except for those breakdowns, which are good. The problem is, I don't want to hear them every single day. Because at that point the show is basically a Cooley monologue with Galdi or Czaban occasionally throwing in an "uh-huh" or "interesting."

I still don't know if the show is going to work in the long run. Cooley is out on location and it's just Czabe and Galdi - good. Czabe is on vacation and it's Cooley and Galdi? Ok. All three? Something's not working. I think Czaban likes Cooley, but something isn't meshing there. I don't know if it's Czaban resenting a jock with no experience getting his own show, not being completely down with the format change and Polin/regular guests being dropped, or simply Cooley's inexperience. But I've just skipped the show some days in favor of music, and that never happened with the old show.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

I had to chuckle yesterday when I saw Tyson Jackson and Asamoah (sp?) both get signed by Atlanta. Atlanta fans are going to learn to hate having Pioli in their front office.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs3

Surprise, surprise.

The same folks will bitch, the wheel in the sky will keep on turning, and the Pats will contend for a Super Bowl.

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs3

The Broncos look great now, and are surely going all in. It's a perfectly acceptable strategy. What happens when Harris, Miller, and the Thomases need to be extended and there's no room?

First off, Miller is absolutely playing for his next contract as people he are fine to let the guy walk if he doesn't get his shit together, come back from his injury in shape and produce. They definitely will need to carve some cash out for the Thomas boys also. I also think most Broncos fans are fine going all in for the next three years if that means they win at least one SB in that window.If that means after they have losing seasons for the three years after that as they rebuild ok as opposed to being 10-6 every year , win the division and one and done in the playoffs every year with no SB wins.

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs3

Surprise, surprise.

The same folks will bitch, the wheel in the sky will keep on turning, and the Pats will contend for a Super Bowl until Tom Brady retires.

FTFY

[Ronnie Dobbs3]

The line between almost winning a SB and actually doing it is so thin (having seen two won by a hair and two lost by a hair) with so many variables (the most important being health) that I am perfectly comfortable with a plan to get in that "we could win" position as much as possible.

Ware signing with 20M guaranteed with Broncos.

[Ronnie Dobbs3]

Originally Posted by Blackadar

FTFY

True, and here in Boston we've been hearing about the "Brady window" for the last 5 years, ever since the knee injury. It's a fucking bay window at this point and I'm glad we aren't in cap hell this year after blowing our wads in 2010 to take advantage.

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs3

True, and here in Boston we've been hearing about the "Brady window" for the last 5 years, ever since the knee injury. It's a fucking bay window at this point and I'm glad we aren't in cap hell this year after blowing our wads in 2010 to take advantage.

As long as he's taking the snaps, New England will have a chance. Much like Manning, Favre or Montana taking the snaps. What will be interesting will be to see how much of a "genius" Bill Belichick is once he doesn't have an All-World QB.

[Ronnie Dobbs3]

It's funny because I've heard Belichick trashed because he'd be nothing without Brady, and I've heard Brady trashed because he'd be nothing without Belichick.

[Kodos]

Belichick didn't do a whole lot before Brady.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by Blackadar

What will be interesting will be to see how much of a "genius" Bill Belichick is once he doesn't have an All-World QB.

There aren't too many coaches who are considered "genius" that don't have an "All World QB".

[Matthean]

The problem for the Pats is the gap between them and the Broncos only seems to be widening. The Pats will be of note in part because there seems to be a genuine lack of contenders from the AFC.

[Ronnie Dobbs3]

Definitely true. They are looking like the clear-cut AFC favorites this year. Almost like a dream team.

[Galaril]

Broncos still got some where in the neighborhood of 15million with a couple of guys they are likely to release and what is remainign even after leaving enough for roster fodder and draft picks they could maybe go after one more guy but for less than 10 million. Two guys they are looking at is Brandon Lafell but think that is just a smoke screen to drive the cost up for the Pats who he is visiting with today . The others is ex Raven MLB D.Smith.if they could sign him or a Cortland Finnegan that would be spectacular.

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by Matthean

The problem for the Pats is the gap between them and the Broncos only seems to be widening. The Pats will be of note in part because there seems to be a genuine lack of contenders from the AFC.

And they play in the continually lousy AFC East. It's not the NFC West of a few years ago, but it has been consistently one of the weaker divisions. I think there's been like 5 times in the last decade that some team other than New England won at least 10 games. Maybe this is the year Miami can challenge them.

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs3

Definitely true. They are looking like the clear-cut AFC favorites this year. Almost like a dream team.

Like the Eagles a couple of years ago?

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by Matthean

The problem for the Pats is the gap between them and the Broncos only seems to be widening. The Pats will be of note in part because there seems to be a genuine lack of contenders from the AFC.

I am not sure about that far as a dream team since they are losing both Knowshon Moreno and Decker and one starting guard.

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by Blackadar

Like the Eagles a couple of years ago?

Eagles never had an elite QB.

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by Matthean

Eagles never had an elite QB.

Well, they thought they did.

[Coffee Warlord]

Josh McCown is off to Tampa on a 2 year deal.

[BillJasper]

I think the biggest problem is that Denver didn't have a very good game plan on either side of the ball against Seattle. Throwing money at free-agents won't fix that.

[Ronnie Dobbs3]

Originally Posted by Blackadar

the continually lousy AFC East

Wins outside of division, 2002-2012

AFC South, AFC East, NFC East - 237
NFC South - 232
AFC North - 227
NFC North - 208
AFC West - 206
NFC West - 174

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

I think the biggest problem is that Denver didn't have a very good game plan on either side of the ball against Seattle. Throwing money at free-agents won't fix that.

Game plan had nothing to do with that that was Alabama vs Notre Dame all over again. Seattle had FAR superior athletes on D. than Denver. I think the free agent signing are very solid sure they are over spending but that is rich peoples problems for now knowing that they are going to need to make tough choices in a couple of years. This team is a losing team in 2 or 3 years like any team without an elite QB so go for it. I also think this is less a reaction to the SB ass kicking than the fact they were vetting into the atmosphere all season on defense. I am mean shit they gave up nearly 50 to the Redskins and the Cowboys.

[Galaril]

Shefter had more on the Ware contract
"Ware's deal will pay him $13 million this season and $7 million in 2015. Both of those figures are guaranteed, according to ESPN's Adam Schefter. Consequently, Denver really signed Ware to a two-year, $20 million deal with the option of bringing him back for a third season at $10 million or cutting him without a cap penalty after two seasons."

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs3

Wins outside of division, 2002-2012

AFC South, AFC East, NFC East - 237
NFC South - 232
AFC North - 227
NFC North - 208
AFC West - 206
NFC West - 174

I probably didn't clarify my statement correctly. I'm speaking about the rest of the teams in the AFC East. Take NE out of the mix and the rest of the division is .468 in non-divisional games from 2002-2013. That's not very good. Basically it's been New England and the 3 Stooges for the majority of the last decade. Miami had a decent year, the Jets a couple of them...and that's been it. In short, New England hasn't had to work hard for their AFC East titles all that often.

[Ronnie Dobbs3]

I wonder what the other divisions' non-divisional winning percentages would be if you took out the best team each year. 46.8% doesn't sound "not very good" to me, certainly not "continually lousy."

The truth is that the AFC East has not had many great teams in it in that span, but also has had very few terrible teams. The Bills and Dolphins each have had one 4 win season, the Jets two.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Galaril

Game plan had nothing to do with that that was Alabama vs Notre Dame all over again. Seattle had FAR superior athletes on D. than Denver. I think the free agent signing are very solid sure they are over spending but that is rich peoples problems for now knowing that they are going to need to make tough choices in a couple of years. This team is a losing team in 2 or 3 years like any team without an elite QB so go for it. I also think this is less a reaction to the SB ass kicking than the fact they were vetting into the atmosphere all season on defense. I am mean shit they gave up nearly 50 to the Redskins and the Cowboys.

Game plan had something to do with it. But lets face it, the Denver D was mediocre for most of last year. There were a ton of reasons for that. Miller being hurt, Bailey being old, the S sucking (a problem in Denver since the Steve Atwater days)

At the end of the day, this was very, very simple. The Broncos know they have 2 years left, maximum on their Super Bowl window and then it's rebuild time. You may as well go for it now. I don't like all of the moves, but I understand them. This will be a nasty team next year, especially if Ball plays the way I think he will and Ware/Miller stay healthy.