Concussion (the movie)

[Kodos]

Should be interesting to see how this movie does. NFL can't be happy about its existence.

[ISiddiqui]

Apparently Sony edited the film to avoid pissing off the NFL

Sony edited its new movie Concussion to avoid pissing off the NFL - Vox

Emails released in the November 2014 Sony hacks show that studio executives altered the script to placate the league and tried reaching out to league representatives to discuss it. In one email, a Sony lawyer said that "most of the bite" has been taken out of the film "for legal reasons with the N.F.L. and that it was not a balance issue."

[Kodos]

For NFL Fans, 'Concussion' Movie Will Be Heartbreaking, Enlightening, Disturbing | Bleacher Report

[nilodor]

Saw the preview of this movie when my wife and I saw the Martian. As someone who has been dealing with lingering concussion issues in day to day life for the past 6 years I have some thoughts:
1) No chance in hell I'm seeing the movie, I'm way too close to the subject matter and getting outraged or upset isn't going to help.
2) I'm glad that it's going to be in the public discourse. I hope it's good and reaches a lot of people.
3) I hope that lawyers and corporate interests didn't neuter the story too much. I really hope that there is an expository component to the movie and that professional leagues are made to feel uncomfortable.
4) Ultimately I'd love for the leagues to be put into a position where they have to acknowledge the issues and be proactive about dealing with them. I doubt that will ever happen, but going through what I'm going through, I can only imagine what some of these guys/gals are going through and I hope something is done to prevent others from dealing with it.

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by nilodor

I hope that lawyers and corporate interests didn't nuder the story too much.

I apologize for being "that guy," but this made me laugh way too hard.

[nilodor]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

I apologize for being "that guy," but this made me laugh way too hard.

Lol, whoops...

[NobodyHere]

I could've sworn I've seen this movie, but I just don't remember it.

[MacroGuru]

I am like nilodor in some ways.

1) I never sustained a concussion through High School and Juco ball. It wasn't until I started playing semi pro ball that I picked up 6 throughout 4 years.

My short term memory is shot, and at times I suffer from severe headaches.

I have a son playing HS ball right now as a DE and TE. He hasn't experienced a concussion yet, but I fear for him being a DE, those collisions will affect him if he goes to college and plays, I know it. He knows it.

If he gets an academic scholarship he probably won't play ball in college. If he doesn't and get's a sports scholarship, I don't want to stop him. I will guide him to the best of my abilities but I have explained what I am going through to him enough that I hope he understands the dangers.

[Kodos]

Former NFL receiver Antwaan Randle El regrets ever playing football - The Washington Post

Randle El is one of my favorite players. As time goes by, it gets harder to ignore the injuries these guys suffer for our entertainment. I'm trying to transition to basketball as my primary sport, but it's hard to change 45 years of habit.

[stevew]

I thought the movie was kind of weak. It would have been so much better if they cast Chiwetel Eijofor instead of Will Smith. I totally couldn't buy the accent he did all film.

[EagleFan]

They may want to start cutting back on the padding they wear. Give them armor and they feel invincible. Make them feel more vulnerable and the recklessness should go away. Of course you still have the Madden/SportsCenter factor but I think the players may not want it that bad if they think their career is at risk with every hit once that false security of the added protection goes away.

[RainMaker]

Movie was disappointing. It's one of those topics you need to either go all-in on or just pass. They did a half ass job on tackling the issue and I think it hurt the overall picture.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Kodos

Former NFL receiver Antwaan Randle El regrets ever playing football - The Washington Post

Randle El is one of my favorite players. As time goes by, it gets harder to ignore the injuries these guys suffer for our entertainment. I'm trying to transition to basketball as my primary sport, but it's hard to change 45 years of habit.

I thought this - School said son suffered a concussion; parents sued to get him back on field - The Washington Post - was the more interesting link over there. People understand "concussions" are bad now, but people don't really know what concussions actually are. And as a high school coach, none of this matters if the kids won't buy in and be honest about their symptoms. Not sure if it's statewide, but our school gave every athlete "baseline" cognitive tests a couple falls ago, with a policy that they had to sit out a minimum of 2 or 3 weeks if there was a suspected concussion, then they had to pass their tests again. Year 1 we had a kid who desperately wanted to get back on the field that seemed fine in every respect that just couldn't pass his test like 8 different times, and others who probably weren't concussed that sat out and missed weeks of games... so year 2 of this wonderful policy every single returning varsity lacrosse (and soccer, and hockey, and probably football) player basically tanked their baseline tests and would refuse to talk to the trainer. We joke that we should be getting extra money for coaching all these special ed kids, but I've also had kids tell me they had to leave class because of headaches and felt out of it all day that they don't tell the school nurse, or the trainer, or even their parents or the head coach. So even though the school would probably fire me for not following procedure, I told the kid he wasn't playing that day, told the head coach he couldn't play that day, told his parents to take him to a real doctor, and told the kid we'd talk every single day and he'd be honest with me or I'd go tell the trainer. And he missed a couple more practices and one more game, and then was the best player on the field as we upset the #1 team in the state 8 days later, and that's the game tape we sent to colleges where he'll probably be starting for a top 5 team this spring.

I guess my overall point is that concussion awareness has succeeded. Everybody (I hope, although I'm sure you can find some somewhere) is aware that brain injuries are bad at this point, and wants to protect long-term health to the extent we shouldn't see kids with the obvious bad concussions (a.k.a. loss of consciousness) callously put back in for the next play. But for the rest of it we need better data, we need to do a better job of explaining the current scientific consensus to people, and we need to accept that people will do things that are bad for their long-term health. I've gone back in to a meaningless men's league game when I knew I had a concussion (and whiplash) because my team didn't have any subs, but I've also played with a separated shoulder, a broken foot, a fractured wrist, and I've had some sort of bicep tendon or rotator cuff injury since August that I've been ignoring even though it means I need to skip certain exercises at the gym and I've been shortarming or throwing everything sidearm for 6 months. And I'm not even someone who was good enough to play D1 sports! So while I think certain aspects should/will change (is there really any reason not to make Pop Warner strictly a 7v7 passing league, or at least make it so until maybe 7th grade? Heck, as a coach of different sports I can't even imagine trying to get a bunch of 9 year olds to repeatedly line up in formation correctly and then not false start) I'm certainly not going to shed any tears for NFL players, because the only difference between them sacrificing some long-term health as opposed to weekend warriors, or cigarette smokers, or people who drink alcohol, is that they're getting fame, glory, and 6 figures+ for making that sacrifice. Which almost all at this point do with their eyes wide open.

[Kodos]

But studies show that people are terrible at handling long-term risk. We think in the short term. That's why people smoke, eat terrible food, and don't bother to exercise. The fear of the chronic disease and premature, painful death that they are setting themselves up for later in life can't overcome the immediate pleasure of scoring that touchdown, eating that bacon-wrapped steak, and smoking that cigarette right now.

I wonder if going back to old-fashioned leather helmets would help. Something softer that isn't an effective weapon to use on opponents.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

They may want to start cutting back on the padding they wear. Give them armor and they feel invincible. Make them feel more vulnerable and the recklessness should go away. Of course you still have the Madden/SportsCenter factor but I think the players may not want it that bad if they think their career is at risk with every hit once that false security of the added protection goes away.

I've heard similar thoughts on moving back towards leather helmets or removing facemasks but the issue then becomes...accidents happen. As reckless as some of these guys are, the first time two guys slam skulls when going up for a ball and one maybe never gets up, that's a potential game-changer.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Kodos

As time goes by, it gets harder to ignore the injuries these guys suffer for our entertainment. I'm trying to transition to basketball as my primary sport, but it's hard to change 45 years of habit.

Indeed. I've tried to scale back myself. As of now, I barely follow the NFL. But it's hard to check out of college football, especially in the South, where it's tied to all sorts of social events.

[Kodos]

Yeah. Football is something my father and I bond over a lot, and with him looking to move nearby this spring (he currently lives in NC and I'm in CT), I'd hate to cut off something that we could enjoy doing together. So I really feel conflicted inside. I know football will continue whether or not I watch it, but I do feel a measure of guilt enjoying something that can be so destructive to the people who play the game.

[cougarfreak]

Originally Posted by Kodos

Former NFL receiver Antwaan Randle El regrets ever playing football - The Washington Post

Randle El is one of my favorite players. As time goes by, it gets harder to ignore the injuries these guys suffer for our entertainment. I'm trying to transition to basketball as my primary sport, but it's hard to change 45 years of habit.

So, he wishes he never played, but started football at the high school he's the athletic director at, and it had to be cut, but because it was too expensive..............I don't get that. Sounds like he's glad it got cut though.

[Kodos]

I imagine he's like me to some degree. Loves the game, but wonders if the level of injuries players incur makes the game not worth it for many players.

I've tossed around the idea of just enjoying football as a video game going forward.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Kodos

But studies show that people are terrible at handling long-term risk. We think in the short term. That's why people smoke, eat terrible food, and don't bother to exercise. The fear of the chronic disease and premature, painful death that they are setting themselves up for later in life can't overcome the immediate pleasure of scoring that touchdown, eating that bacon-wrapped steak, and smoking that cigarette right now.

I like to think I'm not a complete dilettante. But even though I know a diet of kale and beets would be better for my long-term health I still enjoy that bacon-wrapped steak, because I made a conscious choice to enjoy something. If we really go to that extreme, the point of life isn't to live as long as possible, it's to enjoy it as much as possible (and be a good person, and help others, and set yourself up for the afterlife if you believe in one, or whatever your goals are), and although it's important to find a balance sometimes that means making long-term sacrifices for short-term pleasure. Young men especially are prone to actively seeking out risky activities. Some of those are more noble than others (joining the military, becoming a firefighter, etc), some are just dumb (smoking cigarettes, although I'm sure many people would say drinking alcohol too), and a whole lot of others (I'm thinking "extreme" sports etc) make no sense to me but who am I to decide what people enjoy?

I'm not going to argue that football is some societal necessity, but people do enjoy playing it, and people do enjoy watching it, and that alone has some value, in addition to the obvious material benefits NFL players get. Is it worth the costs? I don't know (and the answer clearly isn't the same for Tom Brady as it is for some scrub RB). And I could understand the idea of boycotting the NFL for its shameful actions, or being incredibly leery of allowing immature kids who don't fully comprehend the angles to play full contact, and I definitely support finding ways to make it safer, but the idea of boycotting the NFL because you're worried about the long-term health of players? That's kind of insulting to their intelligence imo. They're consenting adults actively choosing a dangerous job.

(And don't get me wrong, I've definitely had some self-reflection on this issue, and thought it was really weird that, for example, ESPN was promoting Pittsburgh-Denver with this headline and picture Ryan Shazier, Steelers D launching into Denver with momentum - NFL Nation- ESPN , but I'm really not a fan of telling mature adults what they can or can't do with their own body.)

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

the idea of boycotting the NFL because you're worried about the long-term health of players? That's kind of insulting to their intelligence imo. They're consenting adults actively choosing a dangerous job.

Is it, though? I mean if one doesn't want to be part of an industry that allows it's participants to go through long term damages for entertainment is that really insulting the intelligence of the participants? Would you say the same for folks that refuse to watch boxing matches for the same reason? Or, heck, gladiatorial fights?

By participating in spectating, you are indeed part of the issue. Some people have a moral aversion to that sort of thing.

[nilodor]

The extra bonus is that when you're suffering the effects of a concussion your awareness of how you are feeling, and you're ability to judge that you are concussed is impaired. When you look back on it, you're like yeah I was concussed, in the moment it's very difficult to tell. Also symptoms can take a couple of days to materialize due to shock, adrenaline, etc. There's a very difficult risk perception gap here for the athletes, coaches and the doctors.

[Kodos]

I wasn't really trying to tell football players what to do. Obviously, it's their choice. But I do think that, as a species, we tend to be very short-term focused in our decision making. Throw in a lot of money and the possibility of being a celebrated athlete, and I can see where many if not most players find a chance at an NFL career impossible to walk away from.

Look at the public backlash whenever a Barry Sanders or a Robert Smith retires earlier than people expect them to. Often, players are villified for walking away while they can still walk.

From a personal standpoint, I was trying to voice something like the "Is this really something I want to have a hand in perpetuating?" angle. There are other sports out there that don't take the same toll on players. It's unfortunate that I enjoy those sports less. I was brought up loving football far more than all other sports combined.

There have been other similar discussions on the board. It's pretty clear to me that I fall toward the caution/maybe this isn't worth it side of the bell curve. There are plenty of people who take the "they're able to make their own decisions--they know the risks" approach to the NFL. And that viewpoint is just as valid as mine. All I know is I'm happy that my son will never play football (very little interest in sports, not athletic).

I like to think I'm not a complete dilettante. But even though I know a diet of kale and beets would be better for my long-term health I still enjoy that bacon-wrapped steak, because I made a conscious choice to enjoy something. If we really go to that extreme, the point of life isn't to live as long as possible, it's to enjoy it as much as possible (and be a good person, and help others, and set yourself up for the afterlife if you believe in one, or whatever your goals are), and although it's important to find a balance sometimes that means making long-term sacrifices for short-term pleasure.

As for the food debate, that's probably better discussed in the Forks Over Knives thread. But I do think diet isn't an all or nothing proposition. People tend to think if they can't eat their current favorite food, or even if they scale things back, then their diet will be reduced to eating stuff they hate. A life spent choking down cardboard. There's still enjoyment to be had in diets that don't center around various meats and fatty/salty foods. I don't consider a high-vegetable/fruit diet to be unpalatable. Yes, things are different than when I was a meat-and-potatoes guy. Now I'm a veggie-beans-fruits-nuts-and-potatoes guy. But I feel a lot better, and I'm more confident that I will be fit and able to enjoy my retirement years. Of course, there are no guarantees in life, but I'm doing what I can to move the odds in my favor.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

I like to think I'm not a complete dilettante. But even though I know a diet of kale and beets would be better for my long-term health I still enjoy that bacon-wrapped steak, because I made a conscious choice to enjoy something. If we really go to that extreme, the point of life isn't to live as long as possible, it's to enjoy it as much as possible (and be a good person, and help others, and set yourself up for the afterlife if you believe in one, or whatever your goals are), and although it's important to find a balance sometimes that means making long-term sacrifices for short-term pleasure. Young men especially are prone to actively seeking out risky activities. Some of those are more noble than others (joining the military, becoming a firefighter, etc), some are just dumb (smoking cigarettes, although I'm sure many people would say drinking alcohol too), and a whole lot of others (I'm thinking "extreme" sports etc) make no sense to me but who am I to decide what people enjoy?

I'm not going to argue that football is some societal necessity, but people do enjoy playing it, and people do enjoy watching it, and that alone has some value, in addition to the obvious material benefits NFL players get. Is it worth the costs? I don't know (and the answer clearly isn't the same for Tom Brady as it is for some scrub RB). And I could understand the idea of boycotting the NFL for its shameful actions, or being incredibly leery of allowing immature kids who don't fully comprehend the angles to play full contact, and I definitely support finding ways to make it safer, but the idea of boycotting the NFL because you're worried about the long-term health of players? That's kind of insulting to their intelligence imo. They're consenting adults actively choosing a dangerous job.

(And don't get me wrong, I've definitely had some self-reflection on this issue, and thought it was really weird that, for example, ESPN was promoting Pittsburgh-Denver with this headline and picture Ryan Shazier, Steelers D launching into Denver with momentum - NFL Nation- ESPN , but I'm really not a fan of telling mature adults what they can or can't do with their own body.)

Well stated.

[Icy]

I wonder if helmets are the main problem here, I have no data about it, but I guess there are way less concussion issues in rugby and I have read that rugby players have even less injuries than soccer players.

[Toddzilla]

Have you ever seen a rugby player and a soccer player? They are barely even the same species.

[flere-imsaho]

Not that there isn't something to the "no helmets = fewer injuries" idea, but I'd suspect a much larger percentage of Rugby injuries are contact injuries than those for soccer players. Mostly on the strength of the fact that there's a not insignificant number of soccer injuries that are things like rolled ankles (which rugby players can shake off more easily and still play the game) or hamstring / speed-related injuries (see Michael Owen's entire career).

[Kodos]

Real Life Delivers More Hits Than Concussion Movie Portrays - Buffalo FAMbase - Creators of #BillsMafia

[Alf]

Originally Posted by Kodos

Real Life Delivers More Hits Than Concussion Movie Portrays - Buffalo FAMbase - Creators of #BillsMafia

Must read article.

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

the idea of boycotting the NFL because you're worried about the long-term health of players? That's kind of insulting to their intelligence imo. They're consenting adults actively choosing a dangerous job.

Yeah, we shouldn't want better safety regulations in any industry because "they knew what they were getting into." That's great stuff.

Originally Posted by Icy

I wonder if helmets are the main problem here, I have no data about it, but I guess there are way less concussion issues in rugby and I have read that rugby players have even less injuries than soccer players.

Helmets/padding must be a very big part, but I would also imagine unlimited substitution is one of the biggest reasons for the massive amount of injuries.

Unfortunately I don't really see solutions that wouldn't fundamentally change the sport. I think you'd basically have to turn it into what looks like Rugby at first glance to have a serious impact on things.

[Kodos]

Ex-Bills safety Bryan Scott details post-career concussion struggles - Buffalo Rumblings

[Kodos]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...udy/507634001/

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by Kodos

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...udy/507634001/

Now just imagine all the former college and high school players that have some form of this. Obviously playing at the highest level against world class athletes increases your exposure, but you don't have to take shots to the heard for 10+ years in the NFL to develop issues.

Hell, I only played through JC ball and by my best estimate probably played several games with concussions, since back then you got your "bell rung", got some ammonia capsules shoved up under your nose and sent back in when you could walk straight. There was a particular game my senior year in High School that I couldn't remember even playing. When I went to film Monday morning I had to ask if we won....

[BYU 14]

and to add, coaching for so long I really have been torn the last few years over my love for the game and the potential danger of concussions as more and more info has come out. It is one of several reasons that I feel I am pretty much done with High School ball at this stage in my life.

I will say that Arizona has implemented some very good things to protect players now. Starting with certification of both coaches and athletes, baseline cognitive tests every season for athletes and a very strict protocol for returning to play to insure the health of the player is the top priority.

I know over the last few seasons I have lost players for games/practices for things like sinusitis, failure to eat all day, otitis, etc. because their symptoms can mirror concussion symptoms. But better to lose 10 for that, than allow one to play when it puts their health in danger.

[JPhillips]

Small size and needs replicated, but more data suggesting football isn't safe.

Data collected from 38 University of Rochester football players before and after three consecutive football seasons were analyzed for the study. The players’ brains were scanned in an MRI machine before and after a season of play, and the football helmets they wore throughout the season were equipped with impact sensors that captured all hits above 10g force sustained during practices and games. Race car drivers feel the effects of 6 gs, and car crashes can produce brief forces of more than 100 gs.

The analysis showed a significant decrease in the integrity of the midbrain white matter following just one season of football as compared to the preseason. While only two players suffered clinically diagnosed concussions during the time they were followed in the study, the comparison of the post- and pre-season MRIs showed more than two-thirds of the players experienced a decrease in the structural integrity of their brain.

The research team also found that the amount of white matter damage was correlated with the number of hits to the head players sustained, and that rotational acceleration (when the head twists from side to side or front to back) was linked more strongly and more consistently to changes in white matter integrity than linear acceleration (head-on impact).

“Public perception is that the big hits are the only ones that matter,” said senior study author Brad Mahon, an associate professor of psychology at Carnegie Mellon University and Scientific Director of the Program for Translational Brain Mapping at the University of Rochester. “The big hits are definitely bad, but the public is likely missing what’s causing the long-term damage in players’ brains. It’s not just the concussions. It’s everyday hits, too. And the place to look for the effect of such hits, our study suggests, is the midbrain.”

[albionmoonlight]

I'm not the first to suggest this, but I wonder if the radical break-glass-in-case-of-emergency solution here is to eliminate helmets. Without helmets, we should have a lot less of those 10g type brain hits, right?

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

I'm not the first to suggest this, but I wonder if the radical break-glass-in-case-of-emergency solution here is to eliminate helmets. Without helmets, we should have a lot less of those 10g type brain hits, right?

I think in a vacuum this is the way to do it, as long as that's the way people are taught to play from the beginning, but every person/kid currently playing football has been trained to play with a helmet and that would be hard to reverse/negate.

[Warhammer]

I am behind this 100%. I think you would also see teams move away from the huge hitters to more technique oriented players.

[JPhillips]

I don't know if it would be safer, but it would absolutely be bloodier. Pictures of HS kids with bloody faces isn't going to help the game survive.

[bhlloy]

You'd absolutely need to remove blind side blocks and blind side tackles from the game. Probably legislate hitting the receiver as the ball arrives as well as well as any kind of tackles that don't involve the arms. What you'd be left with would probably be a cross between flag football and rugby, there's a fair amount of blood in Rugby but nothing that puts the paying customers off.

It's certainly doable, but would you end up with a game that is palatable to a US audience? I almost certainly think it would end up somewhere below the other major league sports in terms of popularity and you'd probably halve viewing figures overnight. Even if it's saving the game in the long run, I'm not sure anyone has the stomach for it.

[Kodos]

Should Parents Be Afraid To Let Their Kids Play Football? | FiveThirtyEight

[Kodos]

Jeff Herrod feels forgotten: ‘No one acknowledges the work we did’ - The Athletic

Earlier this season, albion said he didn't think anything could make him give up watching football. Honestly, articles like this push me a little closer each time. The price some of the players pay is just so damn high. Having a limp or other physical aches and pains seems like a cost that players go in knowing they will have to pay. But I don't think most of them imagine having to live like a hermit because everything sets you off and having a migraine for 15 straight years. It really makes me question whether I can continue to watch the sport. I think at some point, I may try to get my football fix only out of video games and avoid watching the real thing.

His dress clothes hang idle inside the closet of his north Florida home, a dozen suits collecting dust because he can’t slip them on. Not by himself at least. He settles for athletic clothes most days, the best he can manage without his wife’s help.

He rarely takes off his sunglasses, even when he’s inside, because light makes his 15-year-old headache scream even worse.

“You know what it’s like living with a migraine 24 hours a day, seven days a week?” he says.

He’ll have dreams he’s still playing, still punishing whatever poor sap happened to line up across from him, and then he’ll wake up, seething and soaked in sweat, growling like a lion before the kill, pissed that it’s over and has been over for 25 years. All he’s left with is a body that’s falling apart and a mind that’s slipping away.

He’ll have fits of crying. He’ll throw up out of nowhere. He’ll hear a horn or a siren or a buzzer and want to turn around and slug someone. He’ll scream at his wife if she cooks with the wrong colored spoon.

When the neighborhood boys tell him they want to play football, and they want to make it all the way to the NFL — just like he did — he chuckles. “That’s because you haven’t seen my hands,” Jeff Herrod will tell them. He’ll watch them shudder after they get a glimpse of his fingers darting out every which way but straight.

[Kodos]

Heh. So in an attempt to find another sport to be interested in, I decided to see if IU soccer was playing. As it turns out, they had a semifinal game in the College Cup against Pitt on Friday. I recorded and watched it today. The Hoosiers won 2-0 and now will play Syracuse for the championship on Monday. That’s a little higher success rate than I’ve had watching IU football, where I’ve seen zero Rose Bowls, zero Big Ten championship game appearances, and zero wins over Ohio State since I started rooting for them in 1989.

Maybe I should be a soccer fan. The game itself was alright. Not a ton of scoring, but watchable…

[Kodos]

Welp, still never seen IU win a championship. Lost in OT on penalty kicks. Stupid way to decide a game…