2016-2017 College Basketball Thread

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

With the Feds moving on to Nike, it's only a matter of time until everyone can brush up their resumes to apply for soon-to-be-open college jobs. It has that feel of an impending armageddon in the coaching ranks.

Who takes that many jobs though? 7th grade English teachers?

I mean, nearly all the head coaches are dirty, the assistants are dirty, the high school ranks are certainly dirty, the AAU/developmental et al coaches are dirty.

Maybe it really IS armageddon.

[Arles]

yeah, Miller's office was raided yesterday and Arizona is starting its own investigation on Book Richardson. At a minimum, it appears the agent Christian Dawkins has stated he appeared at Arizona practices - which would be a violation of NCAA rules on its own. I could see Miller surviving if there's no hard evidence connecting Miller and Richardson on the bribes case - but I have to think some pretty hefty sanctions are upcoming.

Another writer made the point that there is a ton of information yet to be released on the recruitment of Brian Bowen. He insinuated that other schools involved like Texas, UCLA, Michigan State and NC State could be referenced in the report. Combine that with the Nike subpoena and who knows how many teams get impacted by this.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Who takes that many jobs though? 7th grade English teachers?

I mean, nearly all the head coaches are dirty, the assistants are dirty, the high school ranks are certainly dirty, the AAU/developmental et al coaches are dirty.

Maybe it really IS armageddon.

I think this could end up happening. I mean, just look at Arizona. One of the assistant coaches involved in the complain is Joe Pasternack. He left this offseason to be the head coach of UC Santa Barbara. There's a chance his position gets impacted depending on his involvement with Richardson. Illinois coach Brad Underwood hired Lamont Evans (part of the investigation) and was his boss at Oklahoma State during the time when all these violations occurred. Finally add in these AAU coaches who are facing charges could be convinced to flip on programs and who knows where it ends up.

[Ksyrup]

I've wondered for years how Leonard Hamilton brought in so many good players to FSU. I mean, Jonathan Isaacs at FSU was like me dating a supermodel. I hope it's not the case, but I would not be remotely shocked to find out people connected to FSU had something to do with the steady stream of good players that have been at FSU the past decade or so. Now, whether they or other schools get caught up in this, or there's enough evidence to clearly connect players to payments to coaches/boosters, is another thing.

This is kinda like the steroids thing, except "outkicking your coverage" is now the "back acne" or "cap size" stereotype that leads to suspicion. Not bball, but I can remember when Seantrel Henderson chose New Mexico State over Miami, FSU, USC and other legit big time schools. Seriously? That was totally clean, I'm sure.

[Radii]

I quit on college basketball before it was cool! Very interested to see how this all blows up. It'd be nice if it somehow ended up in just paying the players, but I assume it will go a very different direction.

[Arles]

Yeah, my hope is they just figure out a way to pay these players in a legit manner. They are going to get paid some way or another. I'd rather not wake up every 2-3 years and see some major university program caught up in a Louisville-type scandal. Just regulate it and allow part of the shoe money teams receive into their program to be allocated to the players. That's basically what is happening now - except it is done under the guise of seedy assistant coaches/middle men.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Arles

Yeah, my hope is they just figure out a way to pay these players in a legit manner. They are going to get paid some way or another. I'd rather not wake up every 2-3 years and see some major university program caught up in a Louisville-type scandal. Just regulate it and allow part of the shoe money teams receive into their program to be allocated to the players. That's basically what is happening now - except it is done under the guise of seedy assistant coaches/middle men.

I'd rather see it end entirely than go down that road honestly.

Just let 'em start the E-League or whatever, and I'll ignore it just fine.

Without the school affiliations, I have no interest in them at that level.
And if they're paid employees instead of student athletes, I have no interest in them there either.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I'd rather see it end entirely than go down that road honestly.

Just let 'em start the E-League or whatever, and I'll ignore it just fine.

Without the school affiliations, I have no interest in them at that level.
And if they're paid employees instead of student athletes, I have no interest in them there either.

Do you have any interest in following the teams with the one and done types, who have no real interest in being a student athlete and stop going to classes as soon as their season ends?

[ColtCrazy]

This has me concerned about Archie Miller at IU now. If his brother was involved...

Not surprised at all by Louisville's involvement. Pitino has been a mess there for years, and Jurich proved character doesn't matter when he brought Petrino back. It's like a mob down there.

Honestly, I will be surprised if the program just down the road from them doesn't get caught.

[Ksyrup]

I find it funny how many people around here are laughing at UL, as if this is the end of the investigation and UK was proven to be clean. The reaction to Pitino himself, it's actually been a little mixed given his connection to UK. But there isn't a school that's been reasonably good at bball that shouldn't be extremely worried at what is going to be uncovered in the upcoming weeks/months.

[MrBug708]

All I know is if ucla survives this, the landscape is much easier for them. If they don't survive it, the buyout for Alford goes away so it's win win

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by ColtCrazy

This has me concerned about Archie Miller at IU now. If his brother was involved...

Not surprised at all by Louisville's involvement. Pitino has been a mess there for years, and Jurich proved character doesn't matter when he brought Petrino back. It's like a mob down there.

Honestly, I will be surprised if the program just down the road from them doesn't get caught.

FWIW, Archie is confident that IU is not one of the programs in trouble.

http://www.indystar.com/story/sports...ion/712899001/

[MrBug708]

Do you think any coach will come out and say they are not confident their school is clean?

[tarcone]

I am very confident Iowa is clean. I just dont see our coach paying for players.
And I dont see anyone at Iowa paying for players.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I find it funny how many people around here are laughing at UL, as if this is the end of the investigation and UK was proven to be clean. The reaction to Pitino himself, it's actually been a little mixed given his connection to UK. But there isn't a school that's been reasonably good at bball that shouldn't be extremely worried at what is going to be uncovered in the upcoming weeks/months.

I doubt Rutgers is 100% clean and we haven't been to the tourney since 1991. Anyone thinking otherwise of their favorite team is crazy or in denial.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by tarcone

I am very confident Iowa is clean. I just dont see our coach paying for players.
And I dont see anyone at Iowa paying for players.

Not picking on you specifically, but this was perfect to appear at the same time as my post.

[tarcone]

Originally Posted by Logan

Not picking on you specifically, but this was perfect to appear at the same time as my post.

That is funny. But I really dont see Iowa doing it. Maybe I am being naive, but the kids we have been recruiting dont seem like pay for play like kids.

[dacman]

Pierre Pierce

**drops mic**


Ok, maybe a low blow -- point being every program probably has some skeletons somewhere.

[tarcone]

Originally Posted by dacman

Pierre Pierce

**drops mic**


Ok, maybe a low blow -- point being every program probably has some skeletons somewhere.

Oh yeah, he was a mess. He was also under Alford. Who is probably as dirty as anyone.

I thought we were talking paying for players. Getting hoodlums? Yes, Iowa does that too. I think that is the nature of the business.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Logan

Do you have any interest in following the teams with the one and done types, who have no real interest in being a student athlete and stop going to classes as soon as their season ends?

Compare my level of interest in college basketball today versus my interest even 10 years ago, much less 20, 30 years ago. I'd say there's certainly some impact from that. But aside from 1-2 teams, you don't currently see too many that are entirely comprised of one-and-dones, so the impact is thinned out for me somewhat.

[lungs]

Originally Posted by tarcone

I am very confident Iowa is clean. I just dont see our coach paying for players.
And I dont see anyone at Iowa paying for players.

How about the conspiracy theory coming from Iowa that Bo Ryan was using Olive Garden to garner favor with recruits?

Here is a post I pulled from a Buckyville thread from an Iowa fan:

Having trouble finding it, it's pretty old and we might have lost it. Supposedly a former Iowa assistant relayed it to a very well connected poster. (funnily enough this assistant had a nickname that is the primary ingredient for most of Olive Gardens dishes... some say the poster IS this former assistant, but I'm not certain... his choice of username certainly would make sense)

The story went that Bo and a former Olive Garden exec had gotten to know each other well in their college days. In Bo's Horizon league days he started favoring OG(Olive Garden) because of tight recruiting budgets and the fact that OG was essentially free. Free because he had an executive account. Things got out of hand when he arrived in Madison. The free meals on recruiting visits continued, but Bo decided to take this a step further and share his private OG account with a few of his top recruits... story goes that apparently their families weren't too well off and any free food coming their way would help. This is where it gets crazy.


Some combination of family member & recruits used the account for everything it was worth. Free flights, free rental cars, free food obviously... and you name it. And free gift certificates. Why gift certificates? Because they were re-sold on ebay for profit. Story goes that the account had the power to simply order and assign any value (under 200) to a gift certificate that they wished. Over the course of a few years the source estimated that the recruits and their families received benefits of 50k plus from this account. Apparently it ceased when their recruitment ended. I have quite a hard time believing Bo was oblivious to this.

Laugh all you want. It is funny... I know I was skeptical at first, but given the poster's subsequent postings, he certainly seemed well connected and I have essentially no reason not to believe him. We know that for every NCAA infraction discovered there are likely 100 others never caught. Is what it is.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Logan

I doubt Rutgers is 100% clean and we haven't been to the tourney since 1991. Anyone thinking otherwise of their favorite team is crazy or in denial.

Well that's true. Your football team sucks and that didn't stop Kyle Flood from getting you in trouble.

[Atocep]

I'm fairly certain Huggins has been pretty clean while at WVU. The only 5 star he's landed was Devin Ebanks, who fell into his lap after Kevin Sampson was fired at IU. He's been so frustrated with the state of recruiting in college basketball he considered retirement after the 2013 season and the lack of high profile recruits has had fans calling for him to change up his assistants for several years.

Since 2013 he's focused on landing Juco guys and mostly overlooked types with the occasional lower top 100 guy mixed in. Before that he was doing a great job of getting WVU into the top 3 for the 5-star types, but wasn't able to land them.

[tarcone]

Lungs, Im not sure what your post is about. That Wisconsin cheated and Iowa reported them? We did that to Illinois a long time ago. They were offering a Truck to a kid, or something like that. In fact, that was Bruce Pearl that turned Illinois in. Yes, that Bruce Pearl.

So, you are saying Iowa turns other programs in and that makes them a dirty program?

[molson]

Originally Posted by Logan

I doubt Rutgers is 100% clean and we haven't been to the tourney since 1991. Anyone thinking otherwise of their favorite team is crazy or in denial.

Syracuse once had their 1 win vacated from a 1-10 football season. That's impressive.

[lungs]

Originally Posted by tarcone

Lungs, Im not sure what your post is about. That Wisconsin cheated and Iowa reported them? We did that to Illinois a long time ago. They were offering a Truck to a kid, or something like that. In fact, that was Bruce Pearl that turned Illinois in. Yes, that Bruce Pearl.

So, you are saying Iowa turns other programs in and that makes them a dirty program?

LOL no, I was just bringing up a couple of idiot Iowa fans that came onto a Wisconsin board claiming that sanctions were imminent against Wisconsin because Bo Ryan was using Olive Garden perks with recruits.

Olive Garden?????? Come on, I'd think they could come up with something better than that.

This all happened like four years ago and we're still waiting for the Olive Garden sanctions to come down.

[tarcone]

LOL. Okay. I got you. Yeah, rival fans on boards are usually trolls.

The Bruce Pearl thing is pretty good in retrospect. Esp. how dirty he is.

[bbgunn]

This could be the end of college sports as we know it. The FBI has to see this to its conclusion. There are only two options: the Feds pull off the gas and let what corruption remains remain (and embarrass themselves in the process), or they blow the whole thing up.

This is just the tip of the iceberg.

[MrBug708]

Ironically enough, Ed O'Bannons nephew, Chuck Obannon Jr, is one of the kids who is reported to have taken money from USC

[panerd]

Originally Posted by bbgunn

This could be the end of college sports as we know it. The FBI has to see this to its conclusion. There are only two options: the Feds pull off the gas and let what corruption remains remain (and embarrass themselves in the process), or they blow the whole thing up.

This is just the tip of the iceberg.

I think the FBI lets up on the gas all the time. The cynic in me actually thinks they weren't expecting to catch Pitino in all of this but some shoe execs and lower tier assistant coaches. Like "Oh fuck he just said Pitino!" close the investigation before Coach K or Roy Williams goes down.

[Kodos]

Or Calipari.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by bbgunn

This could be the end of college sports as we know it. The FBI has to see this to its conclusion. There are only two options: the Feds pull off the gas and let what corruption remains remain (and embarrass themselves in the process), or they blow the whole thing up.

This is just the tip of the iceberg.

Eh, it just depends on what they can find and prove now. With the Adidas investigation, they were able to sneak up on people with an undercover informant and tape/video meetings and such. Less likely they can do the same now, unless Nike or others were stupid enough to document some of this stuff or someone very trustworthy in the underground gets pulled in and turns into an informant who can fool others into giving info on the record. But you have to expect all of these people to trust nobody at this point. I guess we'll see what come of it. But the element of surprise is largely gone, which makes their job tougher.

[CrescentMoonie]

It will probably be like FIFA. A bunch of names get hit in 2-3 raids, the organization makes changes, the FBI moves on to other things and nothing really changes.

That or they wipe out a huge number of coaches/programs and this is a tipping point that changes college sports in ways nobody can foresee right now.

[Thomkal]

To break up all this depressing news about coaches and shoes, how about some news about Puerto Rico? They could no longer of course host the annual Puerto Rico Tip Off Classic in the middle of November, so went looking for a replacement venue. Who did they find? You guessed it, Coastal Carolina. Given this area's history with hurricanes, I'm glad they could do a small part in helping another area ravaged by them:

Puerto Rico Tip-Off basketball tournament moved to Coastal Carolina | Myrtle Beach Sun News

[Kodos]

Sounds like the NCAA is going to release its final report on UNC infractions tomorrow. Hammer time?

[tyketime]

It can't come soon enough. I withdrew all support (financial, rooting interest, etc) as soon as this story broke and I felt UNC manipulated the events to draw out the final final final report until after they lost the championship game two years ago and won it last year. It stinks to high hell from my vantage point.

An old college roommate pinged me the following. I will be interested to see whether he reconsiders once the announcement is made:

Five-star prospect Nassir Little committed to North Carolina on Wednesday.

Little, a 6-foot-6 small forward, chose the Tar Heels over Georgia Tech, Duke, Arizona and Miami.

"I just love Coach [Roy] Williams," Little told ESPN. "He really cares about the players off the court, which is important. They're a basketball school, which is something I wanted to be a part of. Coach Roy really knows how to win. I love winning. I really do. And that's important to me."