OT: Stealing Wireless connections

Hurst2112 · 08-26-2003, 08:47 AM

The studio where I work is in a building in downtown Minneapolis. I recently got a new lap top with a wireless network adaptor (cause it was on sale, and because I might be using it at home soon).

Anyway, I was told by a guy who works across the street that his apple, which has an airport card, that he can get onto several wireless networks around our building. I decided to try it out. Sure enough, I am not on an Apple network, downloading @ 467kbps and uploading at 356kbps. We have a couple software companies that work upstairs along with a music school that just installed several airport wireless stations. I can believe that I can just get on and go to town.

Is this stealing? I feel uneasy about hopping on their internet connection...not knowing if I am doing damage or not. When I was asked to log onto a network, it said that the connection was not secure. I would think that this would be dangerous for me but I am not sure.

Should I not use my adaptor at work? Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Daryll

pjstp20 · 08-26-2003, 10:38 AM

No your not doing any damage unless you wanted to, your just basically hoping on for a free ride. Don't think of it as stealing look at it as sticking it to the man. I'd be suprised if a software company would be stupid enough to leave a network unsecure so your probably getting it from the music school. It may not last so enjoy it will it does.

Daimyo · 08-26-2003, 10:45 AM

You're using up resources that will lower the performance for legit users. I think if they're not bothered enough to attempt to secure their connection (not really that difficult, especially in corporate environment) they probably won't be bothered by those lost resources.

EDIT: The not secure part basically means that any traffic you send across the wireless LAN is out in the open and relatively easy to intercept and view. I wouldn't do any online banking on it if I was you.

Alan T · 08-26-2003, 11:00 AM

The FBI put out an advisory about a year ago or so that this type of behavior was illegal. I personally think that anyone (home or business) that puts in a wireless access point without security is pretty foolish though.

The only part that I am not totally sure of is how prosecutable this would be if you are not breaking encryption to get onto someone's network.

Alan T · 08-26-2003, 11:05 AM

dola .. ok just looked for it again.. basically the deal is right now their stance is that war driving/war walking or other forms of searching around for unsecured access points not specifically setup for public access is a crime.

Since it is a very hazy ground though with probably not much legal stance, some lawmakers have put bills in that state any open access point (unsecured) would not be able to prosecute someone for utilizing their network if they did not secure it.

So its a really new topic , that there are different views on.

JonInMiddleGA · 08-26-2003, 12:24 PM

Based upon your last post, you went "searching around for unsecured access points" the minute you decided to "try it out".

Legally, that seems to qualify.

Ethically, it's theft plain & simple AFAIC.

Butter · 08-26-2003, 12:39 PM

I think you know it's kinda wrong since you titled the thread "stealing wireless connections". But I'm all for a little anarchy now and then.

Franklinnoble · 08-26-2003, 12:42 PM

Even 128 bit encrypted "security" can be cracked with a utility that's free on the internet and enough time to capture 10,000 or so packets on the wireless network.

Most companies that want real security have a secondary firewall in place that requires a user ID and password to authenticate onto the corporate LAN.

The real risk isn't really stealing free internet access (although, for reasons stated above, that's really not ethical), the risk is leaving your corporate computing environment open for the whole world to see.

Hurst2112 · 08-26-2003, 04:16 PM

Thanks for the info.

The way I see it, I just hopped on and went for a "free ride". I am not trying to get onto their network (nor would I have the patience to learn how to access it). I just thought it was strange that I could indeed get onto somebody's internet and freely roam. I moved to the otherside of our studio space and tried it there. I found 2 other networks that were "locked". The would come up on my computer but I couldn't go anywhere with them. I would susspect that under the right circumstances, I would be able to find a bunch of signal around this building.

08-26-2003, 10:45 AM	#3
Daimyo College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Berkeley	You're using up resources that will lower the performance for legit users. I think if they're not bothered enough to attempt to secure their connection (not really that difficult, especially in corporate environment) they probably won't be bothered by those lost resources. EDIT: The not secure part basically means that any traffic you send across the wireless LAN is out in the open and relatively easy to intercept and view. I wouldn't do any online banking on it if I was you. Last edited by Daimyo : 08-26-2003 at 10:47 AM.

08-26-2003, 11:00 AM	#4
Alan T Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mass.	The FBI put out an advisory about a year ago or so that this type of behavior was illegal. I personally think that anyone (home or business) that puts in a wireless access point without security is pretty foolish though. The only part that I am not totally sure of is how prosecutable this would be if you are not breaking encryption to get onto someone's network. __________________ Couch to ??k - From the couch to a Marathon in roughly 18 months.

08-26-2003, 11:05 AM	#5
Alan T Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mass.	dola .. ok just looked for it again.. basically the deal is right now their stance is that war driving/war walking or other forms of searching around for unsecured access points not specifically setup for public access is a crime. Since it is a very hazy ground though with probably not much legal stance, some lawmakers have put bills in that state any open access point (unsecured) would not be able to prosecute someone for utilizing their network if they did not secure it. So its a really new topic , that there are different views on. __________________ Couch to ??k - From the couch to a Marathon in roughly 18 months.

08-26-2003, 12:24 PM	#6
JonInMiddleGA Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA	Based upon your last post, you went "searching around for unsecured access points" the minute you decided to "try it out". Legally, that seems to qualify. Ethically, it's theft plain & simple AFAIC. __________________ "I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis

08-26-2003, 12:39 PM	#7
Butter Coordinator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Dayton, OH	I think you know it's kinda wrong since you titled the thread "stealing wireless connections". But I'm all for a little anarchy now and then. __________________ My listening habits

08-26-2003, 10:38 AM	#2
pjstp20 High School Varsity Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Tallahassee, FL	No your not doing any damage unless you wanted to, your just basically hoping on for a free ride. Don't think of it as stealing look at it as sticking it to the man. I'd be suprised if a software company would be stupid enough to leave a network unsecure so your probably getting it from the music school. It may not last so enjoy it will it does.

08-26-2003, 12:42 PM	#8
Franklinnoble Banned Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Placerville, CA	Even 128 bit encrypted "security" can be cracked with a utility that's free on the internet and enough time to capture 10,000 or so packets on the wireless network. Most companies that want real security have a secondary firewall in place that requires a user ID and password to authenticate onto the corporate LAN. The real risk isn't really stealing free internet access (although, for reasons stated above, that's really not ethical), the risk is leaving your corporate computing environment open for the whole world to see.

08-26-2003, 04:16 PM	#9
Hurst2112 College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Minneapolis	Thanks for the info. The way I see it, I just hopped on and went for a "free ride". I am not trying to get onto their network (nor would I have the patience to learn how to access it). I just thought it was strange that I could indeed get onto somebody's internet and freely roam. I moved to the otherside of our studio space and tried it there. I found 2 other networks that were "locked". The would come up on my computer but I couldn't go anywhere with them. I would susspect that under the right circumstances, I would be able to find a bunch of signal around this building. __________________ http://www.myspace.com/longliveanalog

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