Ben, Welcome To Salary Cap Hell!

[Ben E Lou]

I've completed four seasons with the Falcons. I've had some success, but have yet to win a playoff game:

Front Office Football 2004
GM Performance for Ben Lewis of the Atlanta Falcons
   
Year  Team  Eval  Perf  Diff  Proft FrVal Record    Playoffs  
2006  ATL   66    90    78    52    63    14-3-0    Division Final         
2005  ATL   50    57    75    42    57    9-8-0     Wild Card Round        
2004  ATL   54    66    75    45    52    12-5-0    Wild Card Round        
2003  ATL   58    40    74    69    51    7-8-1     None                 

I signed FA's with impunity in 2004. (Those first-year lowball prices...), not yet understanding the full long-term ramifications of such a course of action. I've had cap issues every since, but have been able to temporarily solve them with the cap out offer. I knew things were starting to get bad when I only could afford to take 52 players to training camp last year (2006).

It is now the 2007 Free Agency period, and I am $8M over the salary cap, with 36 guys signed. If I do as many cap out offers as I can, I'll still only be $4M under the cap--barely enough to sign 7 draftees, but not enough to even get to 46 players.

Fortunately/unfortunately, every one of my high-salary guys has also been a high producer. Fortunate, because I've been getting good value. Unfortunate, because it doesn't make the decision of whom I need to cut/trade any easier.

I have to make some hard decisions this year, with no house rules.

I LOVE this game.

[Bee]

The adjustments that have been made to the financial side of things in the game really increases the challenge. It took me a few years of fighting with the salary cap to really get a feel for how to control my spending. And just a warning...the cap out offers can really come back to bite you later...

[Gambit]

The cap is the single most frustrating item in the game. It's also the coolest thing in the game

[Ben E Lou]

It gets even better/worse. The first guy I decided to trade, WR Darrell Jackson:

No general manager has expressed significant interest in this player.

I have to outright cut a starter.

I LOVE this game!

[Francis_Cole]

Unfortuantly you can't seem to offer new contracts which shorten a players contract, although I remeber the jets doing that this year to our reserve center, we offered him a huge bonus just to forget about his previous long term deal and sign a new one year deal so he leaves this summer!

[Eilim]

I've come to the conclusion that the "Cap Out" button was an idea planted in Jim's head by satan.

..Go ahead, press that button... Look at the all that new cap room...


3 years later:

Arrgh.. Whats going on? No 3rd round pick? 10 mil over the cap with only 35 guys signed? How'd this happen?

(/insert menacing music, with a cackle slowly rising in the background)

"Muhahaha... I own your soul now!"


An idea of satan I say...

Well, I'm off to attempt to rebuild my team. (and yes, I'm playing far too much of this game, and not very well.)

[Ben E Lou]

Originally posted by Eilim
I've come to the conclusion that the "Cap Out" button was an idea planted in Jim's head by satan.

..Go ahead, press that button... Look at the all that new cap room...


3 years later:

Arrgh.. Whats going on? No 3rd round pick? 10 mil over the cap with only 35 guys signed? How'd this happen?



"Muhahaha... I own your soul now!"

That is so accurate, it is frightening. I cracked up when I read that!

[Francis_Cole]

Its so easy to press it as well. Its just sitting there. In gray. Looking all inocent. I just... want to press it... one more time.. can't resist *arghhh*

[Alan T]

Yes, my favorite thing is the little window that says Cap used next year = $115 mil... I guess thats bad when I still have an $85mil salary cap.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally posted by Alan T
Yes, my favorite thing is the little window that says Cap used next year = $115 mil... I guess thats bad when I still have an $85mil salary cap.

Yeah, I never paid attention to the Cap Used Next Year slot before this game.

[Ksyrup]

Can someone give a quick explanation of the "cap out" feature? I haven't gotten in-depth in the game at all, so that hasn't figured into my playing around yet. I think I understand the effect of it, but can someone give me a "before and after" of what someone's salary structure looks like? Thanks.

[Ben E Lou]

Update:

So I do some renegotiating, some capping out, some cutting and two trades. I've got JUST enough cap room to go after one cheap free agent, if any are available. I need a starting FB, and don't want to use an early draft pick on a FB, so I search for cheap FB's. I see B.J. Askew. He's 85 in run blocking, and 91 power inside. I CAN'T BELIEVE MY EYES! HE ONLY WANTS A CONTRACT THAT IS A $700K CAP HIT AND NO ONE HAS MADE AN OFFER TO HIM BY WEEK 5!!! I jump in and hit the submit offer button.

This player is currently injured. Do you wish to continue with this offer?

Oh yeah, I guess that being-out-for-23-more-weeks-because-of-ACL-surgery thing is what has scared other teams off, huh?

[Bee]

Originally posted by Ksyrup
Can someone give a quick explanation of the "cap out" feature? I haven't gotten in-depth in the game at all, so that hasn't figured into my playing around yet. I think I understand the effect of it, but can someone give me a "before and after" of what someone's salary structure looks like? Thanks.

It basically takes the current contract and reduces this year's salary to the veteran minimum and gives the rest of this year's salary as a bonus so the affect is spread out over the length of the existing contract to reduce the salary cap impact this year.

[BishopMVP]

Originally posted by Francis_Cole
Its just sitting there. In gray.

They should change it to a dark red.

[Bee]

Originally posted by SkyDog
Update:

So I do some renegotiating, some capping out, some cutting and two trades. I've got JUST enough cap room to go after one cheap free agent, if any are available. I need a starting FB, and don't want to use an early draft pick on a FB, so I search for cheap FB's. I see B.J. Askew. He's 85 in run blocking, and 91 power inside. I CAN'T BELIEVE MY EYES! HE ONLY WANTS A CONTRACT THAT IS A $700K CAP HIT AND NO ONE HAS MADE AN OFFER TO HIM BY WEEK 5!!! I jump in and hit the submit offer button.Oh yeah, I guess that being out for 23 more weeks because of ACL surgery is what has scared other teams off, huh?

It warned you? I accidently signed an injured player one year, but didn't see a warning. I guess I need to pay closer attention.

[SnowMan]

DOH...thank god for that prompt tho, eh? Then you'd really be hosed.

:P

[Ksyrup]

Originally posted by Bee
It basically takes the current contract and reduces this year's salary to the veteran minimum and gives the rest of this year's salary as a bonus so the affect is spread out over the length of the existing contract to reduce the salary cap impact this year.

Gotcha. Thanks.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally posted by Ksyrup
Can someone give a quick explanation of the "cap out" feature? I haven't gotten in-depth in the game at all, so that hasn't figured into my playing around yet. I think I understand the effect of it, but can someone give me a "before and after" of what someone's salary structure looks like? Thanks.

Ok. I just traded for a tackle. Of course, I have no bonus hit for the next two years of his contract. Here are the numbers:

This Season: $1.52M
Next Season: $1.94M

A cap out offer looks like this:

Bonus: $940K
This Season: $580K
Next Season: $1.94M

The Cap Out offer gives the player the exact amount of money he would have made this year, but instead of as all salary, the "salary" figure drops to the league minimum, and the rest is given as a bonus. The effect is that the bonus money is spread out over the length of the contract. In this case, it isn't a huge effect. I would save $470K in cap room this year, but $470K is added to next year's cap hit, no matter what I do with the guy from here on out. The player makes the same amount of money his contract calls for, and the team gets some cap relief for this season. A pure win-win, right??? Well, the problem (as several in this thread have attested to) is that if you do it for multiple players in the same season, you end up with quite a bit of cap money already allotted for future seasons. I think the key is going to be limiting myself to a "cap" of how much cap room I'm willing to use for next year.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally posted by Bee
It warned you? I accidently signed an injured player one year, but didn't see a warning. I guess I need to pay closer attention.

You do.

[Ksyrup]

Very cool feature. Thanks for the primer.

[Ben E Lou]

Dola--

Bee beat me to it, with a much more succinct explanation. I guess I can't say very much in less than 1,000 words either, huh?

[FrogMan]

Originally posted by SkyDog
Yeah, I never paid attention to the Cap Used Next Year slot before this game.

The exact same thing I told myself yesterday night when I was going through my first free agency and was reading all your horror stories and Eilim's been telling me his through AIM and PM... I started freaking out and looking at that figure... 75M used under a 80M cap, better stop spending NOW!

FM

[Fritz]

Ben, I had the same sort of thing in my first career.

My initial draft was good with a strong QB, WR, LBs, CB, and S. The Oline was half good. The D line was not so good.

Inside of 3 years I was losing star quaility players and having to replace them with mid level types.

By 6 years I had lost the superstars (except the QB), played with some very obvious holes, and carried a ton of players on 1 year deals.

[Samdari]

Originally posted by Bee
It warned you? I accidently signed an injured player one year, but didn't see a warning. I guess I need to pay closer attention.

I've signed an extended injury player several times, with no warning given. I have seen the warning multiple times, but I don't think this feature is working at 100%.

[OldGiants]

Interesting thread. I'm in the same boat going into 2007, only with a dreadful Dallas team. Compounding my problems are that my big salary boys are also the ones who get hurt all the time, so they don't play much.

I've had some success creating cap room the old fashioned pre FOF4 way of renegotiating contracts, but I hadn't fathomed the Cap out button yet. I don't whether to thank or damn all of you for making that temptation clear!

I do love the rookie negotiations. Is that new this year?

I'm beginning to form some hypothoses on negotiationg and the agent rankings and stubbornness ratings.

First, I haven't had much luck making counter offers to veterans. Basically, what they ask for is what I have to pay, no matter what. No cutting 10 or 20% and knowing that will likely be accepted any more. The offer patterns aren't there any more.

So what I'm thinking is this:

The agent ranking is an indication of how well the agent understands the "true worth" of a player. A good reputation means he will give you a decent, market representative bid. a low ranking means the guy will ask for the moon.

The negotiating factor is an indication of how much the guy is willing to come off the initial bid.

So an agent with a high rank and low stubbornness should give a decent offer and come off a bit. A low rank agent with high stubbornness is the agent from hell and will blow the roof off your cap.

Avoid these guys.

I'm planning to test a cap strategy of only dealing with reputable agents, and not dealing with stubbornness all that much.

EDIT: Just re-read the agent help file. The agent ranking is what I assume Jim means by "charisma" In reality, the agent with the most players is ranked "1" and so on down the list. That could still mean the reasonablilty is there.

Also, the more players an agent represents on your team, the easier it is to deal with him. HMM. I guess I'll look for rookies who are with my big stable agents.

[Radii]

Originally posted by SkyDog
Update:
I need a starting FB, and don't want to use an early draft pick on a FB, so I search for cheap FB's.

Based on your lack of a FB, and other posts of yours that indicate your preferred play calling style, I would definitely recommend a switch to the run and shoot

[cthomer5000]

Originally posted by SkyDog
It gets even better/worse. The first guy I decided to trade, WR Darrell Jackson:I have to outright cut a starter.

I LOVE this game!

I've also found it difficult to generate interest much interest in my decent players, which I feel is a great thing. No more unloading guys and getting something in return - we have to make tough decisions.

One trade story:

As the New York Jets I draft my superstar-to-be QB #1 overall in the 2004 draft. He's developing OK, and in 2005 I grab a QB in the 2nd round who looks like a terrific long-term project ...someone simply too good to pass up, and a nice insurance policy in the event of injury/failure of my starter.

My #1 develops at a nice pace over the next few years, and the #2 is coming around slowly, but is now potentially a better long term prospect. In 2008 I realize I cannot keep them both, and seek to trade the 2nd round pick, figuring I'll keep my starter and make out well in the trade market.

My stadium-mates the New York Giants were interested, so I sent my #2 QB for a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round pick 2 years in the future. For some reason they fail to re-sign him after 2008 and he moves on to Cincinnati.

It's 2009. My QB seems to have it all there in front of him - the personal talent, a good RB, and a great trio of receivers. He puts up dynamic numbers in every way - 32 touchdowns and 30 interceptions and over 4,000 yards. As his contract expires, I realize he simply isn't the QB for my team. He's erratic, and has absolutely killed me in some big games (including the playoffs). His record after 5 years is only 1 game over .500.

I am completely revolted to find Cincinnati has just signed an extension with their starting QB. A brand new 5 year deal for the man who has lead them to the best record in the league and a super bowl title. My second round pick is now the class of the league at QB, but in a city far away.

I Guess I traded the wrong guy.

[Daimyo]

Originally posted by SkyDog
Oh yeah, I guess that being-out-for-23-more-weeks-because-of-ACL-surgery thing is what has scared other teams off, huh?

This ALWAYS happens to me!! Everytime I find a bargain that's too good to be true they're always injured.

Have you noticed that injured players don't take their ratings hit right away, but when they return from injury? I found that out early on taking chances on injured FA's.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally posted by Daimyo
Have you noticed that injured players don't take their ratings hit right away, but when they return from injury? I found that out early on taking chances on injured FA's.

This was in FOF4, I think. It makes sense to me. In real life, you don't know how the guy is gonna be until he returns.

[cthomer5000]

Originally posted by Daimyo
This ALWAYS happens to me!! Everytime I find a bargain that's too good to be true they're always injured.

Have you noticed that injured players don't take their ratings hit right away, but when they return from injury? I found that out early on taking chances on injured FA's.

I take 1-2 chances a year on injured guys. If I can sign him cheaply to a 2 year deal, i'll IR him all year and hope it pans out.

I guess I've been in relatively good cap shape with my team, and we've been a bordeline playoff team each year (2003-2009) We've made the playoffs the last 2 years (losing our first game each time).

I also sign 1-3 year players at the end of the year who look promising, so that way I have them as restricted free agents in the off-season. There's a lot of gambles you can take by having cap space and being willing to throw away money.

[Daimyo]

Originally posted by cthomer5000
I've also found it difficult to generate interest much interest in my decent players, which I feel is a great thing. No more unloading guys and getting something in return - we have to make tough decisions.

I haven't really found it that difficult, but I've only tried to deal a couple of guys. I dealt the best QB in the league for 1(5) in the last year of his rookie deal. I had just lucked into a stud QB with the 31st pick the year before and it made more sense to play him on his rookie deal than give $15M to the vet.

Later on I dealt the league's best punter (was actually rated as the best current player by the ai) for a future 2nd after drafting a 100/100 punter in the 4th round. The 100/100 punter was rated the best player in the draft from the 2nd round on even on adjusted rating! First time I ever saw a K/P ranked on the adj scale. I think he's also the only 100/100 guy I've ever seen (he filled it all out after his first season too). I thought it was a bit unrealistic to get a future 2nd for a punter...

[Daimyo]

DOLA, the best way I've found to avoid cap hell is to always play your top 3 draft picks even when they're not optimal. In past FOF's if a guy didn't pan out you just cut him, but now I feel like I have to play them.

I never drafted for need in past FOF's, but now I feel like I almost have to just because I can't afford to sit a rookie to develop and pay a vet to start when i could just draft a guy to start. Even the positions that used to be cheap like C or S now cost a ton to extend when you win. I also feel like I'm forced to convert guys to other positions more (maybe that is just a function of the feature actually working now). I often look for FS with CB size and speed in the draft thinking I can get a relatively cheap nickelback for a few seasons out of them.

[HornedFrog Purple]

He should have put a popup box that says "Are you sure you want to destroy any chance of maintaining respectability anytime soon and be the laughingstock of the league?"

[clintl]

I ran into cap problems, too, and traded away mostly defensive players to solve them for a year. I ended up with several undrafted FA rookies starting, and went 4-12. The weird thing, though, is that one of these undrafted FA rookie LBs (who had terrible ratings) won Defensive Rookie of the Year.

I still have a cap problem the following season, but this one is fairly obvious to deal with - I have an $8M/yr OT who had a severe injury last year, and now is only a backup quality player. I can just cut him.

[Francis_Cole]

One thing I don't know about the cap in real life... if a player retires, how much of his bonus etc is he due if he still has a few years left on his contract.... I think its most of it, but that seems a bit unfair that a team are paying for a player who has since retired

[QuikSand]

I knew a thread like this was going to come around -- I'm convinced that a number of pretty subtle changes in contract structures are going to have a potentially big impact on this game's playability.

In my longest career yet, I drove the Ravens rapidly into the ground with cap deals - but I followed suit of the real-life Ravens. I sucked it up, cut about ten starters, limped through a season of pure cap hell, and came out on the other side ready to get back into the picture.

[cthomer5000]

Originally posted by Daimyo
I haven't really found it that difficult, but I've only tried to deal a couple of guys. I dealt the best QB in the league for 1(5) in the last year of his rookie deal. I had just lucked into a stud QB with the 31st pick the year before and it made more sense to play him on his rookie deal than give $15M to the vet.

Later on I dealt the league's best punter (was actually rated as the best current player by the ai) for a future 2nd after drafting a 100/100 punter in the 4th round. The 100/100 punter was rated the best player in the draft from the 2nd round on even on adjusted rating! First time I ever saw a K/P ranked on the adj scale. I think he's also the only 100/100 guy I've ever seen (he filled it all out after his first season too). I thought it was a bit unrealistic to get a future 2nd for a punter...

you're talking about trading 2 great players. I've had trouble generating interest in mediocre/2nd-tier players. I had a washout former 1st round WR who was still pretty good, but no one wanted him. In FOF2001 or even FOF4, I'm certain I could have gotten a 4th rounder for him at least.

[Ksyrup]

This sounds so damn promising...I almost don't believe it!

I think this is what we've all wanted - some balance between the ease with which we are able to build a contender and a game that makes it too difficult to do so. Now, it sounds like we've got the best of both worlds - you can probably build a good-to-great team like you used to, but it's going to cost you to do so, which means you'll have to take it on the chin for a year or two before the rebuilding process can begin again.

No more switching teams every 8-12 years because I've taken a crappy franchise and turned them into an automatic contender every year! Woo-hoo!

[clintl]

I'm finding it's harder to trade with the AI, too. When I was trying to solve my cap problems, I tried to deal a S who had very good ratings across the board, and was the 2nd team All-League the year before. Nobody would even give me a 3rd round pick for him.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally posted by Ksyrup
This sounds so damn promising...I almost don't believe it!

I think this is what we've all wanted - some balance between the ease with which we are able to build a contender and a game that makes it too difficult to do so. Now, it sounds like we've got the best of both worlds - you can probably build a good-to-great team like you used to, but it's going to cost you to do so, which means you'll have to take it on the chin for a year or two before the rebuilding process can begin again.

No more switching teams every 8-12 years because I've taken a crappy franchise and turned them into an automatic contender every year! Woo-hoo!

My impression is that I'm not going to see 5-10 years of domination from my team unless I get pretty lucky, like multiple breakout players...

[cthomer5000]

Originally posted by SkyDog
My impression is that I'm not going to see 5-10 years of domination from my team unless I get pretty lucky, like multiple breakout players...

agreed. At the end of 2009 I've made the playoffs just 3 times, and never won a playoff game. I'm hopeful now though, since I've made the playoffs 2 years straight. I love the coordintor/coach thing. I hired my current coach off of his super bowl victory as offensive coordinator - very realistic.

[BigJohn&TheLions]

I ran a quick sim to get the feel of the game. I now know to avoid the temptation of signing every friggin guy i want in 2004. Build through the draft. Sign affordable free agents and maybe one "star" who'll cost a lot.

[Ben E Lou]

Next year (2009) ought to be REALLY interesting. Vick's contract runs out at the end of 2008, and it looks like he's going to want a HUGE contract.

[tucker342]

you know, I should really try to avoid these threads, as they just make me want to get the game more and more

[MissionComplete]

I agree that the game is generally tougher. I have run a few teams into the ground already and have started over. The only time I have won a Super Bowl was in the second year of my OPU career. I had an amazing nearly maxed out QB slip to #9, and after camp he came thru already halfway developed. He is easily the best draft pick I have ever had in any FOF and I've owned every version. This almost didn't seem fair to me, since no one else could compare to him in reality. He won POTY, ROTY, SB MVP, and 1st Team QB.

I have learned that it takes more than just finding the best players and getting them all on your team. You have to search for guys that fit into your system, and not sign a massive amount of bodies and pray. It takes a combination of skill and luck, which makes this probably the most realistic FOF, IMO.

[IMetTrentGreen]

dan marino, maybe

[cthomer5000]

Originally posted by cthomer5000
agreed. At the end of 2009 I've made the playoffs just 3 times, and never won a playoff game. I'm hopeful now though, since I've made the playoffs 2 years straight. I love the coordintor/coach thing. I hired my current coach off of his super bowl victory as offensive coordinator - very realistic.

Ugh! In 2010 with my new stud QB (who is apparently the most injury prone bastard ever - 4 seperate minor injuries during the year) we got knocked out in our first playoff game again! We were 13-3 and tied for the best record in the league. My glass jaw QB got knocked out of the game early, and we just couldn't hang with them.

I have replaced my coordinators, and we're gearing up for another go at this.

Front Office Football 2004
GM Performance for C.T. Homer of the New Jersey Jets
   
Year  Team  Eval  Perf  Diff  Proft FrVal Record    Playoffs  
2010  NJY   43    86    71    0     100   13-4-0    Division Final         
2009  NJY   46    86    73    15    63    12-5-0    Division Final         
2008  NJY   42    63    73    23    56    10-7-0    Wild Card Round        
2007  NJY   39    14    70    45    57    6-9-1     None                   
2006  NJY   37    19    68    38    60    6-10-0    None                   
2005  NJY   44    14    64    53    68    6-10-0    None                   
2004  NJY   67    78    66    56    86    12-6-0    Division Final         
2003  NJY   64    63    67    55    100   9-8-0     Wild Card Round

Very Schottenheimer-like production. We just dip our toes in the playoff pool before heading into the offseason.

[mckerney]

I play with the Vikings usually, but if I play with real rosters the two biggest contracts on the team are at positions of little need in my plan, both long term deals with rather large signing bonuses. It makes things tough at first.

[MissionComplete]

My QB just led me to another Super Bowl, but came up short. We were down by 3, and we got the ball back with 48 seconds left. 3 plays later my start gets intercepted and we lose.

He still ended up with POTY, OPOTY, and All League 1st String QB awards. He beat all other QB's by atleast 10 rating points or more.

[Gambit]

2 6-10 seasons with the Cardinals after the Computer ran them into the ground, followed by a 10-6 season with a Bowl appearance = 9 million over the cap in the next season