No, Screw You, Johnny Damon and the Union Hardliners

[sterlingice]

Schilling teammate Johnny Damon, Boston's union player representative, told the Courant that he believes owners are using the steroids issue to fracture the union.

"The owners know that we are divided, with some players wanting the testing and other players not," Damon told the newspaper. "They know that's a very key issue, especially a key issue going into the next bargaining session, which will happen in a couple years [the CBA runs through 2006]. I just think they want to try to tear the union apart with that. That's something that you are going to be divided on. I think that's why a lot of guys want to do the test, to clear their name."

Damon also told the Courant that he believes there are some owners who do not want to rid the game of steroids because it boosts attendance.

"I actually believe the owners want [steroids] in the game," Damon said. "What boosted attendance in baseball more than home runs, guys taking steroids and hitting home runs? That boosted attendance. It boosted salaries. It boosted money for owners."

Damon said that BALCO should bear the brunt of the blame.

"Bonds, Sheffield and Giambi are going on trial," Damon told the Courant. "They're getting in trouble because another company got in trouble and to save their time they spilled the beans. So that's what I'm kind of upset about. It's unfortunate. It's like they got convicted of a murder and they're on trial for murder."

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1761707


You know, I'm not sure why I'm even posting this, but really, it's quotes like this that just drive me batty about the MLBPA. These just make me want to scream at the top of my lungs "IT'S STEROIDS! THAT'S A HEALTH ISSUE FOR ALL OF YOUR MEMBERS AND YOU WANT TO MAKE IT A BARGAINING CHIP!" Any fracturing to the union will be forgotten in a few years as they chase after more cash with a united front. It's like they can't think with their own minds any more and any issue that comes up must first be viewed through the lens of "what do we have to gain from it in the CBA".


SI

[Lucky Jim]

I'm kind of split on this. I actually think that the clips I saw of congressmen demanding that baseball make their testing as stringent as possible were a bit absurd. I think that random drug testing, without reason or substantial evidence for suspicion, is against the spirit of free society, innocent until proven guilty, etc. I don't agree with employers having the right to demand drug testing whenever they want. I see that there is another aspect to the professional athlete scenario, because the, gasp, children might be affected, but the more I hear, the more inclined I am to side in favor of the idea that random drug testing is against the spirit of many of this country's ideals. This may be a function of the fact that the other side is so often and so strongly represented that the only interesting place to look at the situation from is the from the perspective of someone that thinks the testing is bad. I find more and more weight to the argument that the call for more testing is misguided every time I think about it. But I agree with the idea that this issue should not simply be a bargaining chip.

[KevinNU7]

"Bonds, Sheffield and Giambi are going on trial," Damon told the Courant. "They're getting in trouble because another company got in trouble and to save their time they spilled the beans. So that's what I'm kind of upset about. It's unfortunate. It's like they got convicted of a murder and they're on trial for murder."

No it's like they paid BALCO to murder someone and when BALCO got caught BALCO told the Authorities who paid them.

[JasonC23]

Originally Posted by Lucky Jim

I'm kind of split on this. I actually think that the clips I saw of congressmen demanding that baseball make their testing as stringent as possible were a bit absurd. I think that random drug testing, without reason or substantial evidence for suspicion, is against the spirit of free society, innocent until proven guilty, etc. I don't agree with employers having the right to demand drug testing whenever they want. I see that there is another aspect to the professional athlete scenario, because the, gasp, children might be affected, but the more I hear, the more inclined I am to side in favor of the idea that random drug testing is against the spirit of many of this country's ideals. This may be a function of the fact that the other side is so often and so strongly represented that the only interesting place to look at the situation from is the from the perspective of someone that thinks the testing is bad. I find more and more weight to the argument that the call for more testing is misguided every time I think about it. But I agree with the idea that this issue should not simply be a bargaining chip.

Wow, you said this much better than I've been able to. Thanks!

And as I've mentioned in previous threads, Bud and the owners aren't doing this because of the health risk.

[John Galt]

I found the early part of the article much more interesting. Schilling says that 99.9% of players would support testing if it were done by an independent company. On this point, I think the players are totally right. Given the history of the owners (even just on testing) is so bad, I think they have every right to demand independent testing before signing away some privacy rights.

[rkmsuf]

Damon is a couple sandwiches short of a picnic anyway...

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1761707


You know, I'm not sure why I'm even posting this, but really, it's quotes like this that just drive me batty about the MLBPA. These just make me want to scream at the top of my lungs "IT'S STEROIDS! THAT'S A HEALTH ISSUE FOR ALL OF YOUR MEMBERS AND YOU WANT TO MAKE IT A BARGAINING CHIP!" Any fracturing to the union will be forgotten in a few years as they chase after more cash with a united front. It's like they can't think with their own minds any more and any issue that comes up must first be viewed through the lens of "what do we have to gain from it in the CBA".


SI

Bullshit. Bud and co still are trying to argue that its somehow a privledge for the players to play baseball, and they should be thanking their stars, and be happy with any many the owners deign to give them. Its a health issue my ass.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by KevinNU7

No it's like they paid BALCO to murder someone and when BALCO got caught BALCO told the Authorities who paid them.

This may be the dumbest statement I've ever read on this subject.

[jeff061]

All i know is some players take steroids, and some don't. This causes a rift in the playing field and casts doubts on the performance of better players. That sucks. On with random testing and harsh penalties i say. They are paid to entertain, the entertainment goes down if people are cheating.

It may be all politics, but i don't care if the outcome is a tougher stance against steroids.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Aadik

Bullshit. Bud and co still are trying to argue that its somehow a privledge for the players to play baseball, and they should be thanking their stars, and be happy with any many the owners deign to give them. Its a health issue my ass.

First of all, who cares what their motives are? It's the end result that matters. Maybe we should tell drug companies to quit searching for a cure for cancer, since we all *know* they're just doing it for the huge financial payoff in the end.

Secondly, why is it a hard concept to grasp that an employer has an obligation to its consumers and its investors to ensure that its employees are not doing anything that would materially affect the value of its product/service? When the 20-something drug addict/stock boy at the local grocery store knocks over a display while suffering from withdrawls/delusions/whatever and injures a customer, who gets sued? Whose image takes the hit? Companies don't have a right to protect themselves and their customers from employing individuals that could have a negative impact on their business? Similarly, baseball doesn't have a right to ensure that the integrity of the game - which is the underlying bedrock of most sports - isn't sacrificed?

Now, whether that should or must occur within the terms of a labor agreement is another issue altogether. But that doesn't appear to be the point you're trying to make. Irt's a two-way street - both sides need each other.

[Abe Sargent]

I agree with others - I don't like random drug testing. Let's test everybody and move on.


-Anxiety

[JasonC23]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Now, whether that should or must occur within the terms of a labor agreement is another issue altogether. But that doesn't appear to be the point you're trying to make. Irt's a two-way street - both sides need each other.

It is a part of the labor agreement, and Bud Selig's attempting to undermine the agreement by railroading his own plan into place. I agree that steroids should be out, but this is not the way to do it. All it's doing is creating yet more animosity between the owners and players.

(I may be taking your point out of context; if so, I apologize. Just trying to clarify why some of us are not thrilled with this latest possible action.)

[albionmoonlight]

Not to be lost in all this: "Johnny Damon and the Union Hardliners" would be a great name for an old-school bluegrass/country band.

[Calis]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Not to be lost in all this: "Johnny Damon and the Union Hardliners" would be a great name for an old-school bluegrass/country band.

Damn, you beat me to it. I just read this thread title and figured it was something about Johnny Damon starting up a country band. I was greatly dissapointed.

[finkenst]

Originally Posted by Johnny Damon

What boosted attendance in baseball more than home runs, guys taking steroids and hitting home runs? That boosted attendance. It boosted salaries. It boosted money for owners.

Hmm.. you guys getting along enough to have the games actually be played? Don't cancel the world series? Cal Ripken setting the consecutive games played record? hmmm.

[Taur]

Damon said. "What boosted attendance in baseball more than home runs, guys taking steroids and hitting home runs? That boosted attendance. It boosted salaries. It boosted money for owners."

Exactly how many Owners out there are happy about the boost in salaries? How many owners out there are hoping to further increase Player Salaries?

Before Bush & Chaney start casting stones and demanding baseball players take unwaranted tests lets hook the 2 of them up to a lie-detector and make them take an unwaranted test. Can you say WMD and Iraq Mr. Bush?

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Aadik

Bullshit. Bud and co still are trying to argue that its somehow a privledge for the players to play baseball, and they should be thanking their stars, and be happy with any many the owners deign to give them. Its a health issue my ass.

I didn't say whether it was a health issue to Bud or the owners. Please point out where I am saying this. You can't, so stop the sleigh of hand arguing: "Ooh! They want to do something mean to us,

I've long since lost hope that the union will actually have some foresight in these matters. They're content to say "they never look ahead so why should we". I never called for them to say "look at the good of the game for once instead of their own pocketbooks". That's a hopeless plea at this point and particularly in this issue.

But, what I was saying is that this should be a health issue for the union. Isn't it the union's obligation to insure the health of their members? Why should the owners even be involved? If, at an auto plant, some guys were fixing their numbers, which section of the Meadowlands would that guy be buried underneath. Now what if they were doing it via some really unhealthy activity which was forcing other members to choose whether to do it or lose money. They have certain places in teamster hell reserved for people like that.

Originally Posted by John Galt

I found the early part of the article much more interesting. Schilling says that 99.9% of players would support testing if it were done by an independent company. On this point, I think the players are totally right. Given the history of the owners (even just on testing) is so bad, I think they have every right to demand independent testing before signing away some privacy rights.

Agreed 100%! I doubt the players will ever offer this up unless they decide the media scrutiny is too glaring right now and this won't just blow over. I bet if they offered up independent testing, the owners would agree in a heartbeat. The owners have nothing to gain from testing inhouse. They just don't want to further damage the credibility of the product. I'm pretty sure the owners aren't sitting there in their offices, inbetween the pulling off of insect wings and children devouring, saying "We just want to prick the players with needless to make them bleed and steal away their rights".

And, I blame you (particularly Aadik and JasonC23) for making me have to agree with a pair of Yankees fans in this thread (Ksyrup and John Galt, if I recall my "enemies list" properly)

SI

[Leonidas]

Damon among others is saying the owners want steroids, but the union is also saying not to trust the owners with steroid testing. So if the owners really want to allow steroids for homers to boost attendance, than what exactly would they be doing to shortchange the players in drug testing. If anything the owners would be inclined to ignore positive tests using that logic.

However I do agree an independent agency should be used to supervise the training. Just plain stupid for one side or the other to have control of such an issue.

[finkenst]

why should you want an independent agency to supervise the training? how is that going to stop some player from getting steroids on the side?

[Leonidas]

Originally Posted by finkenst

why should you want an independent agency to supervise the training? how is that going to stop some player from getting steroids on the side?

Typo, I meant the testing, not training.

[k0ruptr]

hell we dont even need the MLB anymore. I'll take rice and college baseball anyway.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

And, I blame you (particularly Aadik and JasonC23) for making me have to agree with a pair of Yankees fans in this thread (Ksyrup and John Galt, if I recall my "enemies list" properly)

SI

How. Dare. You.

I most certainly am NOT a Yankees fan. I fucking hate the Yankees. However, JG and I do agree on many baseball-related issues, so I'll forgive you this once.

For the record, I'm a fan of the Phillies and Tigers. I enjoy pain.

[molson]

I think the evidence points to exactly the opposite of Damon's saying. Steriod testing makes sense, fans want it, the owners clearly want it, and most players seem to be in favor it. In the current collective bargaining agreement, it doesn't exist (with any teeth). It would be poor negotiation technique for the union to speak out in favor of it - if they speak out against it, they can eventually trade it for something else that the players REALLY want - (like a lower luxury tax or something).

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

How. Dare. You.

I most certainly am NOT a Yankees fan. I fucking hate the Yankees. However, JG and I do agree on many baseball-related issues, so I'll forgive you this once.

For the record, I'm a fan of the Phillies and Tigers. I enjoy pain.

Argh! Accept my most humblest of appologies, o slighted one. I would not wish this label or distinction upon any but those who have earned it. I will spend the night, lashing myself with a whip in penitence. Or studying for a test in Scheme which I would be doing anyways. Rest assured, it's painful.

SI

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Not to be lost in all this: "Johnny Damon and the Union Hardliners" would be a great name for an old-school bluegrass/country band.

aren't they the band who perform "Don't Fehr The Reaper"?

[hukarez]

Originally Posted by Hell Atlantic

aren't they the band who perform "Don't Fehr The Reaper"?

Blue Oyster Cult?

"...needs more cowbell!"

[Mr. Wednesday]

No, Blue Oyster Cult is Don't Fear The Reaper.

[hukarez]

Still needs more cowbell.

[finkenst]

Originally Posted by Leonidas

Typo, I meant the testing, not training.

my apologies, i just it looked funny...