EURO 2004

[Sharpieman]

I was just wondering soccer fans thoughts on who you think is going to win this year. It starts June 13th. And for those in the US, does anyone know what station will carry some of the games? Will it be ESPN1 (god forbid) or Fox Sports World?

[Easy Mac]

AFAIK you have to purchase a package on DirecTV, DISH Network, or InDemandPPV

more info http://www.soccertv.com/

[mordhiem]

May take on it:

Joint Favourites: Italy and France
Potential Winners: England, Germany, Netherlands, Portugal (purely due to home advantage)

As an Englishman, I think that we have a good chance and would be dissapointed with anything less than semis. The big thing is that we have a fully fit squad this time around (bar Rio 'Bonehead' Ferdinand and Woodgate), unlike the World Cup in 2002 and our young side have all gained in experience and maturity. Main concerns are the lack of form Beckham has been in for Real just about since December and that if we lose badly to France in the opener (I don't think we will) it could hit our confidence big time and cripple us from the off. If Sven can somehow fit Lampard, Gerrard, Scholes and Beckham in the same midfield it will be excellent, although I fully expect Butt to play at the base of the diamond in the first game at least (stick with what you know).

[bhlloy]

I hope it is on Fox World as I'll be in California for the entire tournament. Don't fancy having to pay extra for a package.

It's going to be a very very close tournament. Mordheim has a good list but you can't rule out Spain or Czech Republic and let's not forget Denmark only won it 12 years ago. Crazy things can happen in the Euro's. A team like Denmark again or Sweden could be the surprise package.

If I had to pick a team I'd say Italy... at the back they are solid and their firepower is incredible. France will be hurt by not having Cisse there and their depth is a bit ropey. England can do it but they need James to have a solid tournament, the defense to mature and somebody other than Owen (Rooney?) to score goals consistently. The midfield however is the best in the world at the moment.

[Alf]

France !!!

[MIJB#19]

Here's a possible scenario for Euro 2004

Group A
Greece - will be out of contention after two games
Portugal - will march unbeaten into the quarterfinals
Russia - could upset Portugal or Spain, but I bet they choke against Greece
Spain - will have three tough games and end up second in te group

Group B
Croatia - will upset England or France, only to choke against the Swiss
England - will dissapoint once again, yet take second place over whatever tiebreakers will be needed
France - although they won't be confident like in the qualifiers, they will win the last two games to win the group
Switzerland - are clear favorites to end up last in the group, and they will

Group C
Bulgaria - are the dark horese of the group, will upset Italy with a draw
Denmark - will be underserved non-quarterfinalists
Italy - think they have an easy group and end up disillusioned, yet advance thanks to the scandinavian derby
Sweden - go 4 out of 2 and then escape in the scandinavian derby

Group D
Czech Rep. - will escape in two of three games and win the group
Germany - will be knocked-out in the group stages, but only due to the early loss to the Dutch
Latvia - will surprise one of the three others with a draw
Netherlands - should trash the Germans, only to escape in the last game to advance

Quarterfinals
Portugal are upset by England on penalties
France trash Spain and advance
Netherlands will beat Sweden with unexpected ease
Italy upset the Czechs by a late penalty kick

Semi Finals
The Netherlands keep rolling and beat England
Italy denies the French defending their title and get their revenge

Finals
The Dutch golden generation chokes once again and Italy claim the title

[Coder]

Just want to put in a word of warning for my homenation Sweden. I'm usually very skeptical about our chances, but with players like Zlatan Ibrahimovic(Ajax) and Henrik Larsson(Celtic) suiting up as forwards, Fredrik Ljungberg(Arsenal), Kim Källström(Rennes), Christian Wilhelmsson(Anderlecht) on the midfield and then a killer defense with Olof Mellberg(Aston Villa) and Michael Svensson (Southampton).. add some bits and pieces here and there from various leagues around Europe and then put in Andreas Isaksson in goal.. best goalie we've had since 1994 when we won the bronze in the World Cup.

If Wilhelmsson and Källström can feed Ljungberg like he's being used in Arsenal, we'll have a VERY exciting summer ahead of us. Previously, we haven't had those kinds of players to work with "Freddie", but finally he can play in the national team like he's done for Arsenal.

Henrik Larsson's decision to come back to the national team after having said "no more" after our disappointing loss to Senegal in the World Cup in 2002 will make a huge difference as well. He's won the golden boot as best goalscorer in Europe, he holds the all time goalscoring record in Celtic and the Scottish league, but he's also won the Champions League goalscoring title.

Zlatan Ibrahimovic is one of the most exciting players ever to come out of Sweden. He's outspoken, cocky but nothing short of brilliant on the field. I'll never forget when Ajax played Lazio... Zlatan goes left, Stam goes left, Zlatan goes right, Stam goes right, Zlatan goes left, Stam is buying hot dogs in row Z.. He's the guy who caught slack from Norway's John Carew, who thought "Zlatan isn't very technical at all", and responded with "What Carew does with a football, I do with an orange".. =)

[Katon]

Sounds plausible. I think the four main contenders are Holland, Spain, Italy, and France, in no particular order. England have only one good striker at this level and are severely mismanaging their midfield, so I don't see them as among the favorites. I can see the argument for putting Butt in the team, although he wouldn't get near the squad if we had anyone else who played the same position; what I can't see is the argument for keeping Frank Lampard out - which is what Sven looks likely to do. That said, almost everyone has some weakness or other and I'm expecting a lot of surprises based on that.

[Sharpieman]

Coder, I agree, look out for Sweden to be a sleeper. Also the Netherlands too. Henrik Larsson was great this season for Celtic and should continue to do well in EURO 2004. However, I look for France, England, Italy and Portugal to be the favorites in this tourney. I see Italy or Portugal being the victors this year, but who knows. This tourney ought to be crazy.

[Coder]

Oh yes.. Portugal will be dangerous indeed.. while Sweden played 2-2 against Portugal in a training-match a few weeks ago, it was obvious that Portugal had loooooads of potential but were going on gear 2 instead of 5. It was a training-match, nothing more, nothing less. Had it been competative, Portugal would have won 5-2 or something. In Sweden's defense I'll say that we were using nothing but backups, but Portugal's quality certainly showed. Home field advantage and that quality... wow.

[Chief Rum]

In my current CM03/04 dynasty, Italy beat France to win Euro 2004. France was lucky to get by Portugal in the semis. Italy earned its way to the final the hard way--through Germany and Kahn.

The winning goal in the final was by Del Pietro (did I get his name right?).

Of course, France came back to win the Cup in 2006. What does all this matter? Nothing at all. I just wanted to share.

CR

[Sharpieman]

Originally Posted by Coder

Oh yes.. Portugal will be dangerous indeed.. while Sweden played 2-2 against Portugal in a training-match a few weeks ago, it was obvious that Portugal had loooooads of potential but were going on gear 2 instead of 5. It was a training-match, nothing more, nothing less. Had it been competative, Portugal would have won 5-2 or something. In Sweden's defense I'll say that we were using nothing but backups, but Portugal's quality certainly showed. Home field advantage and that quality... wow.

One thing that might hurt Portugal is the fact that many of their players play dirty and Portugal may get in trouble with yellow cards and possibly even reds.

[ice4277]

My two favorites for the tournament are Spain and Italy, however, it would be foolish to not put the French right up there, and I think there are a handful of other teams (England, Portugal, Germany, Holland) that would not be surprising at all to see end up on top. Should be a very interesting tournament with a few surprises in store for us.

As for the games on American TV, I thought I had heard that Fox Sports World would be able to broadcast the games, but only on a three-day delayed basis. For live coverage, you have to either purchase the PPV package, or go to a soccer-friendly bar/pub. Personally, I am hoping FSW does broadcast all the games on a delayed basis; I can manage to not visit any soccer websites for a couple weeks, and not know what happens until they air it.

[SirFozzie]

The games are on 72 hour tape delay.

you can also purchase the Euro2004 webcast package from euro2004.com

[cartman]

So... anyone up for a Euro 2004 pick'em contest, ala the one we did for Champions League? I haven't seen any online ones at the usual suspects. If there's enough interest, I'll get something together and make a post.

[bhlloy]

I'd be up for that and able to give you a hand setting it up if you like.

Holland - CHOKE. They choke more often than Dubya eating pretzels. If Holland actually win the whole thing I'll walk around for a week wearing nothing but a strategically placed orange.

[Chief Rum]

I missed the Champions' contest, so I would be up for picking the Euro.

CR

[Marc Vaughan]

I'll opt for England - because I always do (not that it ever happens ).

On a more serious note, I reckon that Spain might actually come good - they've flattered to decieve in the last few tournaments and now fewer people are touting them as potential winners the pressure is off them and I think they'll do much better.

PS. imho Germany will definitely get further than the group stages - otherwise they wouldn't be in the position to knock England out on penalties later in the competition as per tradition

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by Katon

England have only one good striker at this level and are severely mismanaging their midfield, so I don't see them as among the favorites. I can see the argument for putting Butt in the team, although he wouldn't get near the squad if we had anyone else who played the same position; what I can't see is the argument for keeping Frank Lampard out - which is what Sven looks likely to do. That said, almost everyone has some weakness or other and I'm expecting a lot of surprises based on that.

I personally think Rooney and Owen are a very good pairing up front, Rooney is at the stage where Owen was when he first surfaced for England - if he starts well in the tournament I think he could do very well indeed during it ...

With regards to Englands midfield I personally think Wright-Phillips would have been the solution to the left wing position, but he's not even in with a chance. As it stands I think our midfield will make up for the lack of balance with hard-work in our traditional manner, Beckham will (as usual) be a source of goal chances from well worked set-pieces and Gerrard especially will be a tough competitor for all but the truly best opposition.

Our main problem imho is our lack of tried and tested international quality defenders in the absence of Rio Ferdinand (not that I think he should be playing in light of what happened).

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

I'd be up for that and able to give you a hand setting it up if you like.

Holland - CHOKE. They choke more often than Dubya eating pretzels. If Holland actually win the whole thing I'll walk around for a week wearing nothing but a strategically placed orange.

I'll remind you of this if my country wins it all.
There's no chickening out of this now.

Of course, the Dutch football (soccer?) team are experts in getting knocked out in the later stages and the Dutch fans "en mass" are getting pacemakers to survive another loss on penalty kicks...

[Marc Vaughan]

Holland - CHOKE. They choke more often than Dubya eating pretzels. If Holland actually win the whole thing I'll walk around for a week wearing nothing but a strategically placed orange.

Heh - I know who I'll be supporting once England have been knocked out by Germany now

[SirFozzie]

(grins)

If it does happen, can we get someone to follow him with a webcam for the week, just so we get the maximum amount of humiliation out of it?

[Darkiller]

Well, on paper and in "championship experience", FRANCE is clearly the favourites.
If you put aside the giant mistake that World Cup 2002 was, all this team has done since 1998 is win it all.

1998 World Cup Champions
2000 European Champions
2001 Confederations Cup Champions
2002 ----
2003 Confederations Cup Champions
2004 : won every games of the Qualifying round, 0 Goals against us all year long. Notable fact : went IN Germany and beat the German team 3-0 !

Withough mentionning that we went to the semis in the 1996 European Championship (lost on penalties...)


We have the world's best players at every positions, and one of the All-Time greats in Zinedine Zidane (provided he plays up to his level because he's been tired lately this season).

Normally, this team (France), has to go the distance and win it all.
Anything but a 2nd straight championship would been seen over here as a failure.

My other favourite : Portugal, Italie, Germany (never forget these guys, even when don't seem to have a stong team).

[Darkiller]

dola :
Holland is a favourite OF COURSE !

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by Darkiller

Well, on paper and in "championship experience", FRANCE is clearly the favourites.

One of the main reasons I'm not tipping France myself is simply that nearly all of their players have had tough seasons playing an awful lot of games and I think that will take the edge off the team .... probably wrong

[Honolulu_Blue]

Dunno who will win... Just know that I will be there!

Got tickets to two semi-final matches.

Good times...

[Darkiller]

you bet....I envy you my friend.
Portugal at this time of the year with such competitive games as the semis, that will be an awesome experience.

[RPI-Fan]

Kahn has been shite as of late, no?

He's basically the only chance the Germans have... Klose's had his 15 minutes of fame, and Ballack will do something stupid early on. Their backline will hold the scores to 1-nil, but their midfield is almost as bad as their strikers, and they won't score any goals.

[bhlloy]

I guess I missed the asterisk out of that statement huh?

I will think of a more suitable forfeit if Holland do win the tournament though... very confident it's not going to come to that though

[bhlloy]

DOLA - With regard to Kahn and Germany in general... shite of late maybe but not in a major tournament, and that is where the famous Germany clause comes in. I can't see them doing well but everybody always says that. Maybe this is the year they don't do it.

[SirFozzie]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

I guess I missed the asterisk out of that statement huh?

I will think of a more suitable forfeit if Holland do win the tournament though... very confident it's not going to come to that though

BOOOOOOOO! HISSSSSS! WELCHER!

[Katon]

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

I personally think Rooney and Owen are a very good pairing up front, Rooney is at the stage where Owen was when he first surfaced for England - if he starts well in the tournament I think he could do very well indeed during it ...

With regards to Englands midfield I personally think Wright-Phillips would have been the solution to the left wing position, but he's not even in with a chance. As it stands I think our midfield will make up for the lack of balance with hard-work in our traditional manner, Beckham will (as usual) be a source of goal chances from well worked set-pieces and Gerrard especially will be a tough competitor for all but the truly best opposition.

Our main problem imho is our lack of tried and tested international quality defenders in the absence of Rio Ferdinand (not that I think he should be playing in light of what happened).

Rooney could prove me wrong, but still: we just don't have as much up front as most of the other contenders. I mean, compare Rooney and Owen with Vieri and Totti, or with Henry and Trezeguet, or with Raul and Morientes, or . . . you get the idea.

Not quite sure about Wright-Phillips, he is after all a right-sided player. We do need to do something about the left, though, since the rest of the midfield picks itself. You have to play Gerrard and Lampard in their favorite positions after the season they've had, so the middle is set, and Beckham's an easy choice on the right; I personally would move Ashley Cole forward to cover left midfield, but that's partly because I want to see Wayne Bridge in a starting role.

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by Katon

Not quite sure about Wright-Phillips, he is after all a right-sided player. We do need to do something about the left, though, since the rest of the midfield picks itself. You have to play Gerrard and Lampard in their favorite positions after the season they've had, so the middle is set, and Beckham's an easy choice on the right; I personally would move Ashley Cole forward to cover left midfield, but that's partly because I want to see Wayne Bridge in a starting role.

Wright-Phillips does tend to play on the right for Man City in recent years, but has played just as ably on the left for them in the past ...

Watching him the last couple of seasons (my wifes a Man City fan) I have gained great respect for him, he's a hard worker both in defense and attack and shows very good vision with regards to his team mates positioning and is also a fairly nifty dribbler.

The fact that Man Utd continually put two people onto closing him down during the last derby to try shows that he's garnered a fair amount of respect from teams in the Premiership ...

I'm not so sure about Lampard as a starting player myself - I personally would put Gerrard and either Scholes or Dyer in. Lampard is a good player, but I personally think that the attacking flair of Scholes or Dyer would be useful in the tournament ..

I'd opt for Heskey on the left wing simply because having a tall winger gives a natural target for clearances from defense/goal kicks - very few teams have anyone who can challenge him in the air on the wing and his physical build can be quite intimidating to the usually smaller players who hold those roles ... he's done fairly well in that role for England in the past - just a shame he can't cross for toffee

[BreizhManu]

Originally Posted by MIJB#19

Here's a possible scenario for Euro 2004]

Group A
Greece - will be out of contention after two games
Portugal - will march unbeaten into the quarterfinals
Russia - could upset Portugal or Spain, but I bet they choke against Greece
Spain - will have three tough games and end up second in te group

100% agree

Group B
Croatia - will upset England or France, only to choke against the Swiss
England - will dissapoint once again, yet take second place over whatever tiebreakers will be needed
France - although they won't be confident like in the qualifiers, they will win the last two games to win the group
Switzerland - are clear favorites to end up last in the group, and they will

Disagree, I think Switzerland will do fine, probably better than Croatia, else I agree.

Group C
Bulgaria - are the dark horese of the group, will upset Italy with a draw
Denmark - will be underserved non-quarterfinalists
Italy - think they have an easy group and end up disillusioned, yet advance thanks to the scandinavian derby
Sweden - go 4 out of 2 and then escape in the scandinavian derby

Bulgaria will lose 3 out of 3, Italy will win all 3 games by the wonderful score of 1-0, Sweden will qualify too.

Group D
Czech Rep. - will escape in two of three games and win the group
Germany - will be knocked-out in the group stages, but only due to the early loss to the Dutch
Latvia - will surprise one of the three others with a draw
Netherlands - should trash the Germans, only to escape in the last game to advance

Czech Republic will advance for sure, else I think Germany could surprise the Dutch.

Quarterfinals
Portugal are upset by England on penalties
France trash Spain and advance
Netherlands will beat Sweden with unexpected ease
Italy upset the Czechs by a late penalty kick

Replace Netherlands by Germany, and Sweden eliminates Germany. Portugal eliminates England.

Semi Finals
The Netherlands keep rolling and beat England
Italy denies the French defending their title and get their revenge

Portugal defeats Sweden with ease.

Finals
The Dutch golden generation chokes once again and Italy claim the title

Italy wins the final on penalty kicks against Portugal in what will be considered the worst final ever.

[SirFozzie]

So if the wifey gets a bit angry Marc, you can always placate her with "What about if I made City a bit better in the next CM game?"

[bhlloy]

No no no Marc... you just got Heskey out of the team, you don't want to put him back in at a position that his complete lack of skill and touch will be shown up even more.

Bridge at left back and Cole at left wing is a good solution... I'm a big fan of Bridge after his performances this season and I'd like to see him given a chance.

Personally I'd go three in the middle with Gerrard holding behind and Lampard, Beckham and Scholes. Yeah it's not Beckham's favourite position but he can deal with it and it a) brings Lampard into the team and b) masks the lack of a left sided midfielder. Plus Butt just isn't a world class player and Lampard has the potential to be.

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

No no no Marc... you just got Heskey out of the team, you don't want to put him back in at a position that his complete lack of skill and touch will be shown up even more.
Bridge at left back and Cole at left wing is a good solution... I'm a big fan of Bridge after his performances this season and I'd like to see him given a chance

I agree I'd personally prefer Heskey to be watching from a pub in England - but I'm not convinced that Cole would be fully comfortable on the wing, he's a very good player but again I'm not convinced that his crossing and vision are good enough really to do the role justice .... still I'd be happy to be proved wrong

Personally I'd go three in the middle with Gerrard holding behind and Lampard, Beckham and Scholes. Yeah it's not Beckham's favourite position but he can deal with it and it a) brings Lampard into the team and b) masks the lack of a left sided midfielder. Plus Butt just isn't a world class player and Lampard has the potential to be.

Beckham isn't at his best generally when played centrally imho, he isn't as comfortable on the ball under pressure as the best central midfielders - so giving him a winger role where he has more space suits him best imho.

I'd stick to an old fashioned 442 let Beckham and Neville overlap in the way they usually do.

I like dropping the midfield into a 'bank' in front of the defense personally so from that point of view Lampard would be very effective alongside Gerrard in that sort of formation - however I think Dyer or Scholes would be key to unlocking defenses during the tougher matches, we could possibly start with Lampard and bring Dyer or Scholes on during the second half?

(I love plotting formations for teams - shame Svein never listens to me (but equally lucky he ignores my wife ) .... 'tis easy to see why people like soccer management games huh )

[3ric]

BTW, Southampton's Michael Svensson has pulled himself out of the Sweden squad due to a knee injury. Alexander Östlund of Hammarby IF will replace him.

[Katon]

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

The fact that Man Utd continually put two people onto closing him down during the last derby to try shows that he's garnered a fair amount of respect from teams in the Premiership ...

At least, relative to the rest of the Man City team . Seriously, if he can play on the left then he would definitely be worth a look there.

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

I'm not so sure about Lampard as a starting player myself - I personally would put Gerrard and either Scholes or Dyer in. Lampard is a good player, but I personally think that the attacking flair of Scholes or Dyer would be useful in the tournament ..

Frank Lampard was the second best player in the Premiership this season and the best midfielder. If you discount Hasslebaink's goals in the League Cup, which came against the might of Notts County and Reading, then he was Chelsea's leading scorer. From central midfield. For at least the last year, and arguably a while before that, Lampard has been a MUCH better player than either Scholes or Dyer.

[Sharpieman]

Right before it starts, my prediction - FC Porto 2, AC Monaco 1.