QB rushing in FOF 2004

QuikSand · 06-17-2004, 01:03 PM

I've been thinking about trying a "novelty" career, and recently got a seed of inspiration. I have an olf FOF save game, from the early stages of my long career, where I had a promising young QB who was blazing fast (I believe he was in the top ten of league's fastest men). Regrettably, his career was cut short by many injuries when I initially played it out - but I've been thinking about re-starting from an early point, and seeing what I could do with a player like that.

Has anyone had particular success trying to get a QB to really run with the ball in FOF 2004? I'm assuming that you'd set your "finesse" running tendencies high, but past that I'm fairly lost.

Better yet - does anyone have a game plan I could use? (That would be sweet... and I'm really disappointed that the market for saved game plans hasn't gone anywhere... I guess the shadow of multi player looms pretty large)

I might make it my primary goal to get my QB to 1,000 yards rushing... I've never really paid much attention to QB rushing before, so I don't have much to work with quite yet.

Any ideas on launching this in earnest?

QuikSand · 06-17-2004, 01:08 PM

Just thinking out loud here...

100% use of the 5-WR setup.
0% use of finesse runs.

That might translate to a pretty fair number of carries for the QB... wouldn't he, by necessity, be getting all the carries?

Ksyrup · 06-17-2004, 01:08 PM

Didn't someone just post about this, thinking it was a bug, where their QB rushed like 30+ times in a game? I don't think I read any further in the thread, but I thought it had sometrhing to do with how the depth charts were set? Or maybe it was a multi-player upload problem?

MikeVick7 · 06-17-2004, 01:08 PM

I definitely saw some great results when running a career with the Falcons and Vick. I won back to back Super Bowls early in my franchise and it seemed like he was the MVP in every single game I had. I just used the offense that was suggested by the scout so I can't add any offensive suggestions. But having that kind of QB is definitely a huge advantage.

albionmoonlight · 06-17-2004, 01:09 PM

It goes without saying, but just make sure that you pass the ball a lot. I had a QB like yours (top ten 40 time) and he got 964 yards one season--most of it, I imagine, on scrambles. (I do not, however, have the gameplan anymore because I don't save them).

Perhaps you could also surround him with receivers who all have poor route running skills so that he will be forced to tuck it and run more.

I didn't know that finesse running affected QB rushes at all.

QuikSand · 06-17-2004, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Didn't someone just post about this, thinking it was a bug, where their QB rushed like 30+ times in a game? I don't think I read any further in the thread, but I thought it had sometrhing to do with how the depth charts were set? Or maybe it was a multi-player upload problem?

I remember some speculation that the depth chart was set using a third party utility - and the QB was being slotted as both QB and HB by accident.

I'm not looking for that sort of back door, I don't think.

Passacaglia · 06-17-2004, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuikSand

I'm really disappointed that the market for saved game plans hasn't gone anywhere... I guess the shadow of multi player looms pretty large

Threadjack!

This is pretty interesting -- I mean, after all, anyone can find out the gameplan that an opponent of theirs has used, if they really wanted to. Given that, I see no reason for such secrecy.

To answer your question -- I dunno, run a lot of 5 WR formations? Or talk to JeeberD about his CFL gameplan.

JeeberD · 06-17-2004, 01:12 PM

My gameplan was a run heavy offense that somehow managed to give my QB 38 rushes in a game. Still haven't figured out exactly how that happened...

Passacaglia · 06-17-2004, 01:12 PM

Have you tried to replicate it, JeeberD?

JeeberD · 06-17-2004, 01:14 PM

No, I haven't. I guess I could load that gameplan into a single season game and see if it does it again...

JeeberD · 06-17-2004, 01:27 PM

Hmmm...the QB is still leading the team in rushing every game, but he's also throwing the ball a lot more than he did in the one CFL game that I used this plan...

Passacaglia · 06-17-2004, 01:32 PM

Is he getting gi-normous stats like he did in the one game? I think there was a theory about that the QB had high rushing values *for a QB*, that, when used in your gameplan, were made to look like high rushing values *for a RB*

The part about throwing the ball is strange? Are you falling behind early at all?

JeeberD · 06-17-2004, 01:39 PM

It varies. There are some games where he only has 18 carries for 45 yards, but then there are other games where he gets 40 carries for 180 yards. I would say the average has been about 25-30 carries for somewhere around 100 yards.

Yeah, the team is losing most of thier games, so they're behind most of the time. That may contribute some to the extra passing...

Sorry about the threadjack, Quik...

JeeberD · 06-17-2004, 01:47 PM

Dola-

After one season with this gameplan my starting QB started ten games and ran for 1053 yards on 277 carries for a 3.8ypc. The backup QB had 182 carries for 707 yards, also a 3.8ypc. The next leading rusher on my team was the fullback (46 carries for 222 yds), then the #2 RB (45 carries for 171 yds), then the #1 RB (18 carries for 55 yds). No RB is shown as having started a game for me all season long...

Hmmm...I'm apparently starting a two TE set...

QuikSand · 06-17-2004, 01:54 PM

Seems pretty obvious to me that the HB1 duties are being fulfilled by the QB somehow.

Did you build this gameplan in the game exclusively - or were there some utilities involved?

JeeberD · 06-17-2004, 02:04 PM

No, I had a run heavy/normal defense plan and a pass heavy/heavy blitz plan already made. Using Celeval's gameplanner I split off the run heavy offense and and the blitz heaby defense to create this third plan.

I've used the run heavy/normal defense plan after I made the third plan, and it worked fine with me, so the error wasn't there.

QuikSand · 06-17-2004, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeeberD

Using Celeval's gameplanner I split off the run heavy offense and and the blitz heaby defense to create this third plan.

My best guess as to how this happened is right there...

QuikSand · 06-19-2004, 07:58 AM

Well, I played through a few quick seasons of a career, trying the heavy use of the 5WR set in running situations, just to see if I could get my fleet-footed QB to put up impressive rushing totals.

Answer? Nope.

The team was awful, the offense pathetic overall. In fact, when I switched to a more traditional pass-heavy offense overall, the QB ended up with just about as many rushing yards -- even though he was no longer being pushed into that role. But I failed to get him even over 500 yards for a season, in either scenario.

Don't know if I have lost interest in it completely... but I have yet to find any way to really get this to work well.

Anthony · 06-19-2004, 10:39 AM

that's odd. i think your goal would ultimately put the QB in a position where he'd have to tuck the ball and run with it, which is why i assumed the 5 WR set would do the trick (more plays breaking down, more DB's on the field to emphasize pass coverage rather than run coverage). when you think about it - other than QB sneaks and draws, or "trick plays" meant to get a handful of yards at best - any QB scramble is the result of a broken play. there aren't any plays i've seen in the NFL where it was painfully obvious the OC had called for the QB to run the ball - no team wants to put their most important player in harm's way.

i think you might be seeking something the game is not equipped to handle - formally giving your QB opportunities to run with it. it's odd that we'll get this rating about the QB's scrambling ability - but no way to implement it. Guys like Vick and Culpepper have the "green light", if you will, to run the ball if the opportunity presents itself (rather than the pocket passer's way of throwing it out of bounds if nothing's there). maybe we should have a box to check or a slider to adjust that basically gives our QB the "green light" to run w/ it. you'd be basically saying either "you should not be running downfield unless it's to save the play" or "you are allowed to run the ball if you see the opportunity". formula-wise that would trigger some numbers and algorithms to allow the QB to either throw it away or scramble.

wig · 06-19-2004, 10:57 AM

What about running more 1 WR sets and passing a ton? The coverage should be excellent, and force the QB to tuck and run.

Just an idea.

Dutch · 06-19-2004, 12:43 PM

Quote:

What about running more 1 WR sets and passing a ton? The coverage should be excellent, and force the QB to tuck and run.

Just an idea.

You have to be careful when running 100% on certain formations. The defense will slowly start keying in on that defense. The message, "The defense saw that formation before" or something like that.

So while you might successfully get your QB to run more, the defense may be stuffing him.

wig · 06-19-2004, 02:00 PM

I just wonder if that will make the QB run more.

Dutch · 06-19-2004, 02:04 PM

I understand, I was thinking a step ahead with the question, "Would it do us any good if we rigged the gameplanning to let them run more?"

I think the best solution is adding a "patience in the pocket" factor to the gameplan screens. So you can adjust it and force your QB to look for a receiver or take off when the options are covered too tightly.

3ric · 06-19-2004, 02:37 PM

Maybe the type of quarterback is important, if his playing style is "long passes" then he's not as likely as run as a "roll-out" style passer?

Dutch · 06-19-2004, 02:53 PM

I would assume that has some sort of significance in the gameplanning effects.

SFL Cat · 06-19-2004, 02:54 PM

Just one reason I wish FOF would let you build gameplans using actual plays rather than just formations and percentages.

cuervo72 · 06-19-2004, 03:09 PM

Didn't Daimyo get his qb to rush for a good number of yards?

Celeval · 06-19-2004, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuikSand

My best guess as to how this happened is right there...

Could be. Jeeb - can you send me the saved plan?

Kevin

JeeberD · 06-20-2004, 04:47 PM

What's your e-mail addy, Celeval?

06-17-2004, 01:08 PM	#3
Ksyrup This guy has posted so much, his fingers are about to fall off. Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: In Absentia	Didn't someone just post about this, thinking it was a bug, where their QB rushed like 30+ times in a game? I don't think I read any further in the thread, but I thought it had sometrhing to do with how the depth charts were set? Or maybe it was a multi-player upload problem? __________________ M's pitcher Miguel Batista: "Now, I feel like I've had everything. I've talked pitching with Sandy Koufax, had Kenny G play for me. Maybe if I could have an interview with God, then I'd be served. I'd be complete."

06-17-2004, 01:08 PM	#4
MikeVick7 College Benchwarmer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ron, Mexico	I definitely saw some great results when running a career with the Falcons and Vick. I won back to back Super Bowls early in my franchise and it seemed like he was the MVP in every single game I had. I just used the offense that was suggested by the scout so I can't add any offensive suggestions. But having that kind of QB is definitely a huge advantage. __________________ Hattrick - Seattle Reign (224367)

06-17-2004, 01:12 PM	#8
JeeberD General Manager Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: The Town of Flower Mound	My gameplan was a run heavy offense that somehow managed to give my QB 38 rushes in a game. Still haven't figured out exactly how that happened... __________________ UTEP Miners!!! I solemnly swear to never cheer for TO

06-17-2004, 01:14 PM	#10
JeeberD General Manager Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: The Town of Flower Mound	No, I haven't. I guess I could load that gameplan into a single season game and see if it does it again... __________________ UTEP Miners!!! I solemnly swear to never cheer for TO

06-17-2004, 01:27 PM	#11
JeeberD General Manager Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: The Town of Flower Mound	Hmmm...the QB is still leading the team in rushing every game, but he's also throwing the ball a lot more than he did in the one CFL game that I used this plan... __________________ UTEP Miners!!! I solemnly swear to never cheer for TO

06-17-2004, 01:08 PM	#2
QuikSand lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Annapolis, Md	Just thinking out loud here... 100% use of the 5-WR setup. 0% use of finesse runs. That might translate to a pretty fair number of carries for the QB... wouldn't he, by necessity, be getting all the carries?

06-17-2004, 01:09 PM	#5
albionmoonlight Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: North Carolina	It goes without saying, but just make sure that you pass the ball a lot. I had a QB like yours (top ten 40 time) and he got 964 yards one season--most of it, I imagine, on scrambles. (I do not, however, have the gameplan anymore because I don't save them). Perhaps you could also surround him with receivers who all have poor route running skills so that he will be forced to tuck it and run more. I didn't know that finesse running affected QB rushes at all.

06-17-2004, 01:12 PM	#9
Passacaglia Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Big Ten Country	Have you tried to replicate it, JeeberD?

06-17-2004, 01:32 PM	#12
Passacaglia Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Big Ten Country	Is he getting gi-normous stats like he did in the one game? I think there was a theory about that the QB had high rushing values for a QB, that, when used in your gameplan, were made to look like high rushing values for a RB The part about throwing the ball is strange? Are you falling behind early at all?

06-17-2004, 01:39 PM	#13
JeeberD General Manager Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: The Town of Flower Mound	It varies. There are some games where he only has 18 carries for 45 yards, but then there are other games where he gets 40 carries for 180 yards. I would say the average has been about 25-30 carries for somewhere around 100 yards. Yeah, the team is losing most of thier games, so they're behind most of the time. That may contribute some to the extra passing... Sorry about the threadjack, Quik... __________________ UTEP Miners!!! I solemnly swear to never cheer for TO

06-17-2004, 01:47 PM	#14
JeeberD General Manager Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: The Town of Flower Mound	Dola- After one season with this gameplan my starting QB started ten games and ran for 1053 yards on 277 carries for a 3.8ypc. The backup QB had 182 carries for 707 yards, also a 3.8ypc. The next leading rusher on my team was the fullback (46 carries for 222 yds), then the #2 RB (45 carries for 171 yds), then the #1 RB (18 carries for 55 yds). No RB is shown as having started a game for me all season long... Hmmm...I'm apparently starting a two TE set... __________________ UTEP Miners!!! I solemnly swear to never cheer for TO

06-17-2004, 01:54 PM	#15
QuikSand lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Annapolis, Md	Seems pretty obvious to me that the HB1 duties are being fulfilled by the QB somehow. Did you build this gameplan in the game exclusively - or were there some utilities involved?

06-17-2004, 02:04 PM	#16
JeeberD General Manager Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: The Town of Flower Mound	No, I had a run heavy/normal defense plan and a pass heavy/heavy blitz plan already made. Using Celeval's gameplanner I split off the run heavy offense and and the blitz heaby defense to create this third plan. I've used the run heavy/normal defense plan after I made the third plan, and it worked fine with me, so the error wasn't there. __________________ UTEP Miners!!! I solemnly swear to never cheer for TO

06-19-2004, 07:58 AM	#18
QuikSand lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Annapolis, Md	Well, I played through a few quick seasons of a career, trying the heavy use of the 5WR set in running situations, just to see if I could get my fleet-footed QB to put up impressive rushing totals. Answer? Nope. The team was awful, the offense pathetic overall. In fact, when I switched to a more traditional pass-heavy offense overall, the QB ended up with just about as many rushing yards -- even though he was no longer being pushed into that role. But I failed to get him even over 500 yards for a season, in either scenario. Don't know if I have lost interest in it completely... but I have yet to find any way to really get this to work well.

06-19-2004, 10:39 AM	#19
Anthony Banned Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Astoria, NY, USA	that's odd. i think your goal would ultimately put the QB in a position where he'd have to tuck the ball and run with it, which is why i assumed the 5 WR set would do the trick (more plays breaking down, more DB's on the field to emphasize pass coverage rather than run coverage). when you think about it - other than QB sneaks and draws, or "trick plays" meant to get a handful of yards at best - any QB scramble is the result of a broken play. there aren't any plays i've seen in the NFL where it was painfully obvious the OC had called for the QB to run the ball - no team wants to put their most important player in harm's way. i think you might be seeking something the game is not equipped to handle - formally giving your QB opportunities to run with it. it's odd that we'll get this rating about the QB's scrambling ability - but no way to implement it. Guys like Vick and Culpepper have the "green light", if you will, to run the ball if the opportunity presents itself (rather than the pocket passer's way of throwing it out of bounds if nothing's there). maybe we should have a box to check or a slider to adjust that basically gives our QB the "green light" to run w/ it. you'd be basically saying either "you should not be running downfield unless it's to save the play" or "you are allowed to run the ball if you see the opportunity". formula-wise that would trigger some numbers and algorithms to allow the QB to either throw it away or scramble.

06-19-2004, 10:57 AM	#20
wig Banned Join Date: Jan 2004	What about running more 1 WR sets and passing a ton? The coverage should be excellent, and force the QB to tuck and run. Just an idea.

06-19-2004, 02:00 PM	#22
wig Banned Join Date: Jan 2004	I just wonder if that will make the QB run more.

06-19-2004, 02:04 PM	#23
Dutch "Dutch" Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Tampa, FL	I understand, I was thinking a step ahead with the question, "Would it do us any good if we rigged the gameplanning to let them run more?" I think the best solution is adding a "patience in the pocket" factor to the gameplan screens. So you can adjust it and force your QB to look for a receiver or take off when the options are covered too tightly.

06-19-2004, 02:37 PM	#24
3ric College Starter Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Sweden	Maybe the type of quarterback is important, if his playing style is "long passes" then he's not as likely as run as a "roll-out" style passer? __________________ San Diego Chargers (HFL) - Lappland Reindeers (WOOF) - Gothenburg Giants (IHOF) Indiana: A TCY VC - year 2044 - the longest running dynasty ever on FOFC!

06-19-2004, 02:53 PM	#25
Dutch "Dutch" Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Tampa, FL	I would assume that has some sort of significance in the gameplanning effects.

06-19-2004, 02:54 PM	#26
SFL Cat College Starter Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: South Florida	Just one reason I wish FOF would let you build gameplans using actual plays rather than just formations and percentages. Last edited by SFL Cat : 06-19-2004 at 02:54 PM.

06-19-2004, 03:09 PM	#27
cuervo72 Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Maryland	Didn't Daimyo get his qb to rush for a good number of yards? __________________ null

06-20-2004, 04:47 PM	#29
JeeberD General Manager Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: The Town of Flower Mound	What's your e-mail addy, Celeval? __________________ UTEP Miners!!! I solemnly swear to never cheer for TO

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