Israeli Army frowns on D&D players

Arles · 03-09-2005, 02:23 PM

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles//0,...052074,00.html

Quote:

Does the Israel Defense Forces believe incoming recruits and soldiers who play Dungeons and Dragons are unfit for elite units? Ynetnews has learned that 18-year-olds who tell recruiters they play the popular fantasy game are automatically given low security clearance.

“They're detached from reality and suscepitble to influence,” the army says

Quote:

"These people have a tendency to be influenced by external factors which could cloud their judgment, a military official says. "They may be detached from reality or have a weak personality – elements which lower a person's security clearance, allowing them to serve in the army, but not in sensitive positions."

I don't buy it. Tell me these guys aren't based in reality. They'd make a great army:

sachmo71 · 03-09-2005, 02:25 PM

I have a weak personality.

Arles · 03-09-2005, 02:31 PM

BTW, this article was found by Farrah - so she gets the credit

wishbone · 03-09-2005, 02:33 PM

I thought it said DVD players and was thinking "they have to make a statement that watching a movie while on duty is a bad thing?" Thank goodness that the truth was more believable.

RendeR · 03-09-2005, 02:34 PM

Fuck them, there is nothing detaching or weak minded about using one's imagination and flexing the brain to create and think tactically on the fly.

fear mongering religious freaks who can't appreciate the real strength of a creative mind.

Ksyrup · 03-09-2005, 02:38 PM

I'd give some text sim players low security clearance, if the criteria is detachment from reality.

RendeR · 03-09-2005, 02:40 PM

I don't see it as detachment from reality. Think about it, how focused do text sim players become on their games? how critical of every minute detail do some people get?

Take that level of focus and apply it to military training and tactical decision making.

These people should be in CHARGE.

Ksyrup · 03-09-2005, 02:45 PM

Maybe they've seen the Lightning Bolt! Lightning Bolt! video and are understandably worried.

SirFozzie · 03-09-2005, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arles

BTW, this article was found by Farrah - so she gets the credit

you mean she reads slashdot, Arlie?

The horror! THE HORROR!

Arles · 03-09-2005, 02:50 PM

I think she got it off fark.com

RendeR · 03-09-2005, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Maybe they've seen the Lightning Bolt! Lightning Bolt! video and are understandably worried.

Bah, ignore me and my foul mood. I'm just sick to death of the eternal bashing of anyone who partakes in games, role playing, tabletop, or otherwise which somehow intimidate them or their belief system.

There is no statistical proof that people who enjoy such games and activities are any better or worse at anything than those who do not partake in them. The vast majority of articles and comments I've come across over the years like this one are baseless and are written more to denounce something they, for whatever reason dislike or fear due to their own (most often) religious beliefs.

Honestly I've never seen the "lightning bolt" video. I'm assuming its a satirical comedy film about a bunch of geeks playing D&D?

Not everyone who plays such games are geeks or losers.

Then again, maybe my own inherint distrust and dislike of Isreal is tainting my reaction somewhat.

gstelmack · 03-09-2005, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RendeR

Honestly I've never seen the "lightning bolt" video. I'm assuming its a satirical comedy film about a bunch of geeks playing D&D?

Oh my. It wasn't intended to be a satirical comedy film, it was more a home video of a group playing D&D that turned into a satirical comedy film (without any editing) as more and more people viewed it.

Ksyrup · 03-09-2005, 02:56 PM

hxxp://www.squizzle.com/movieview.asp?id=647

RendeR · 03-09-2005, 03:01 PM

Wow, so people who have the ambition, and the creativity to come up with a script, create the costuming and correagraph a scene are something to insult and make fun of.

While I see the ease of which people could jump on the hilarity bandwagon, I'm still rather sickened by it.

Society creates hate and intolerance.

Fuck Society.

Ksyrup · 03-09-2005, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RendeR

Wow, so people who have the ambition, and the creativity to come up with a script, create the costuming and correagraph a scene are something to insult and make fun of.

In the manner in which they did it, yes. Sorry my sense of humor offends you. I''ll get back to you when I stop laughing.

Bee · 03-09-2005, 03:08 PM

Well my D&D game consists of 2 lawyers, a guy with a pHD in biochemistry, a Division Manager for the Red Cross also with a pHD, and a VP of an engineering company...oh and a cook (don't ask). I wouldn't consider any of them losers or weak personalities...ok maybe the cook...

rkmsuf · 03-09-2005, 03:08 PM

Yes, yes. The tennis ball was particulary creative as the lightning bolt.

sachmo71 · 03-09-2005, 03:15 PM

I think Ren is having a bad day.

Ren, I am as big of a stealth geek as you will find, and I found it funny, too.

MacroGuru · 03-09-2005, 03:35 PM

I echo this sentiment I saw posted on User Friendly

Quote:

Although the article does a crappy job of reporting. The pictures were all for LARP, which bears little to no resemblance to D&D. D&D is a pen/paper game which is played out largely in the mind. LARP (Live-Action Role-Play) is dress-up.

I don't LARP - playing a mind-game on paper and practicing character acting skills is one thing, dressing up and doing it in a performing arts sort of way - not my cup of tea.

sterlingice · 03-09-2005, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bee

Well my D&D game consists of 2 lawyers, a guy with a pHD in biochemistry, a Division Manager for the Red Cross also with a pHD, and a VP of an engineering company...oh and a cook (don't ask). I wouldn't consider any of them losers or weak personalities...ok maybe the cook...

Is the cook Steven Seagal?

SI

Sharpieman · 03-09-2005, 04:31 PM

Don't the vast majority of people in the world already frown down on D&D players?

Ksyrup · 03-09-2005, 04:33 PM

And most can't get security clearance for the office microwave.

Marc Vaughan · 03-09-2005, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RendeR

Wow, so people who have the ambition, and the creativity to come up with a script, create the costuming and correagraph a scene are something to insult and make fun of.

While I see the ease of which people could jump on the hilarity bandwagon, I'm still rather sickened by it.

Society creates hate and intolerance.

Fuck Society.

As someone who was a very active role player (and still would be if there were groups around here) I found it funny all the same ..... and yes I used to live role play also (as a student there's nothing quite so much fun as running around dressed as a warrior in woodland when old ladies are walking their dogs

... yes I know I've a warped sense of humour, but then again so did a lot of the old ladies we came across

).

Marc Vaughan · 03-09-2005, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sharpieman

Don't the vast majority of people in the world already frown down on D&D players?

I've never understood this myself - after all people don't have a 'downer' on kids playing 'cowboys and indians' ... same thing different age group (ditto for text sims imho, I've described CM/FM as a sports management role playing game for quite a while - as a kid you imagine being one of the star players, as you get older your games become more sophisticated and to combat the fact that in your heart of heart you realise there's a chance that Brighton might not sign an unfit 32 year old defender you pretent to be a 'manager' at the club instead).

Franklinnoble · 03-09-2005, 05:22 PM

So, I suppose I shouldn't mention my robe and wizard hat if I'm interviewing for any federal jobs requiring a security clearance?

HomerJSimpson · 03-09-2005, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Franklinnoble

So, I suppose I shouldn't mention my robe and wizard hat if I'm interviewing for any federal jobs requiring a security clearance?

Your fine as long as the job is not with the Isreali government. Shoot, I bet Condeleeza Rice has played a half-elf a time or two.

Franklinnoble · 03-09-2005, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HomerJSimpson

Your fine as long as the job is not with the Isreali government. Shoot, I bet Condeleeza Rice has played a half-elf a time or two.

Quick... somebody photoshop Condi with a wizard hat...

Hubba-hubba!

lighthousekeeper · 03-09-2005, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Article

"These people....have a weak personality – elements which lower a person's security clearance, allowing them to serve in the army, but not in sensitive positions."

If they have a weak personality, can't they just re-role and start again?

Dutch · 03-10-2005, 12:41 AM

So, does this mean the Arabs have been letting D&D guys into their armies for decades?

Vinatieri for Prez · 03-10-2005, 01:22 AM

Am I the only one amazed that the guy took 8 lightning bolt and 2 sleep spells before he went down. That is some serious "constitution" and "hit points" going on there.

Neon_Chaos · 03-10-2005, 01:42 AM

well. Vin Diesel is a big D&D nut.

KeyserSoze · 03-10-2005, 05:09 AM

Yeah . You need a much stronger personality to sit and watch the tv hours and hours day in day out.

Marc Vaughan · 03-10-2005, 06:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KeyserSoze

Yeah . You need a much stronger personality to sit and watch the tv hours and hours day in day out.

I agree - looking back on my childhood I believe that RPG's seriously helped me develop in many ways:

* Social interaction (much better for this imho than watching TV or playing computer games, sorry to admit it but true

).
* Maths (the amount of math used in these games is huge BUT because its not 'work' kids do it and enjoy it)
* History (gave me an immense amount of interest in history, myths and such like)
* Reading (helped get me into reading fiction novels - via. Fighting Fantasy style books)
* Creativity (as with most role-players I spent hours designing adventures, worlds and indeed whole gameplay systems ... in fact one of them (designed as a role playing style way of playing Subbuteo ended up being the basis for the original CM3 match engine

).

You will always get obsessive people doing bad things with potentially good hobbies or opportunities, that is human nature and life imho - you only have to look at religion to see this is the case (eg. most religious people are 'good' for their communities and want to live productive lives and help people, but some are obsessive and give religions a bad name).

Just my tuppence worth on a pet subject,

Marc

Eilim · 03-10-2005, 07:40 AM

quick threadjack...

To any roleplaying fans who like their games somewhat on the quirky side (not running around yelling "Lightning bolt" quirky, mind you.), check out Its a Dog life RPG . Just picked up the second edition for 6 bucks at RPGnow and have to say I can't wait to try it out in a gaming session.

/end threadjack

Bee · 03-10-2005, 08:05 AM

What I find funny about this is the main reason I play D&D is for the tactical combat. With the latest ruleset, the combat is similar to playing a strategic war game. I guess the Israeli army wants grunts who do what they're told and not generals...

Dutch · 03-10-2005, 09:48 PM

Well, a battlefield full of generals would definately suck.

Greyroofoo · 03-10-2005, 10:17 PM

Too many chiefs and not enough indians

Flasch186 · 03-10-2005, 10:31 PM

LIGHTNING BOLT! LIGHTNING BOLT!

www.dungeonmajesty.com

be prepared because it IS exactly as awful as you think it could be!!

Vinatieri for Prez · 03-15-2005, 01:52 AM

Yeah, but go there (http://www.dungeonmajesty.com/home.html) and check out pic 12:

You will be pleasantly surprised, trust me!

Sun Tzu · 03-15-2005, 02:14 AM

I hear Robert E. Lee was into D&D big.

sachmo71 · 03-15-2005, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinatieri for Prez

Yeah, but go there (http://www.dungeonmajesty.com/home.html) and check out pic 12:

You will be pleasantly surprised, trust me!

About what? Is she in the Israeli army? If so, they have sucky uniforms.

Desnudo · 03-15-2005, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sun Tzu

I hear Robert E. Lee was into D&D big.

I say suhs, have any of you all seen my wizud hat?

Desnudo · 03-15-2005, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sachmo71

About what? Is she in the Israeli army? If so, they have sucky uniforms.

I think he was talking about the fact that she only has one chin.

sterlingice · 03-16-2005, 02:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desnudo

I say suhs, have any of you all seen my wizud hat?

SI

03-09-2005, 02:31 PM	#3
Arles Grey Dog Software Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Phoenix, AZ by way of Belleville, IL	BTW, this article was found by Farrah - so she gets the credit __________________ Developer of Bowl Bound College Football http://www.greydogsoftware.com

03-09-2005, 02:34 PM	#5
RendeR Coordinator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Buffalo, NY	Fuck them, there is nothing detaching or weak minded about using one's imagination and flexing the brain to create and think tactically on the fly. fear mongering religious freaks who can't appreciate the real strength of a creative mind. __________________ http://wotlabs.net/s...8/signature.png http://wotlabs.net/sig_dark/na/banichi18/signature.png

03-09-2005, 02:38 PM	#6
Ksyrup This guy has posted so much, his fingers are about to fall off. Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: In Absentia	I'd give some text sim players low security clearance, if the criteria is detachment from reality. __________________ M's pitcher Miguel Batista: "Now, I feel like I've had everything. I've talked pitching with Sandy Koufax, had Kenny G play for me. Maybe if I could have an interview with God, then I'd be served. I'd be complete."

03-09-2005, 02:40 PM	#7
RendeR Coordinator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Buffalo, NY	I don't see it as detachment from reality. Think about it, how focused do text sim players become on their games? how critical of every minute detail do some people get? Take that level of focus and apply it to military training and tactical decision making. These people should be in CHARGE. __________________ http://wotlabs.net/s...8/signature.png http://wotlabs.net/sig_dark/na/banichi18/signature.png

03-09-2005, 02:45 PM	#8
Ksyrup This guy has posted so much, his fingers are about to fall off. Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: In Absentia	Maybe they've seen the Lightning Bolt! Lightning Bolt! video and are understandably worried. __________________ M's pitcher Miguel Batista: "Now, I feel like I've had everything. I've talked pitching with Sandy Koufax, had Kenny G play for me. Maybe if I could have an interview with God, then I'd be served. I'd be complete."

03-09-2005, 02:25 PM	#2
sachmo71 The boy who cried Trout Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: TX	I have a weak personality.

03-09-2005, 02:33 PM	#4
wishbone High School JV Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Hillsboro OR	I thought it said DVD players and was thinking "they have to make a statement that watching a movie while on duty is a bad thing?" Thank goodness that the truth was more believable.

03-09-2005, 02:50 PM	#10
Arles Grey Dog Software Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Phoenix, AZ by way of Belleville, IL	I think she got it off fark.com __________________ Developer of Bowl Bound College Football http://www.greydogsoftware.com

03-09-2005, 02:56 PM	#13
Ksyrup This guy has posted so much, his fingers are about to fall off. Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: In Absentia	hxxp://www.squizzle.com/movieview.asp?id=647 __________________ M's pitcher Miguel Batista: "Now, I feel like I've had everything. I've talked pitching with Sandy Koufax, had Kenny G play for me. Maybe if I could have an interview with God, then I'd be served. I'd be complete."

03-09-2005, 03:01 PM	#14
RendeR Coordinator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Buffalo, NY	Wow, so people who have the ambition, and the creativity to come up with a script, create the costuming and correagraph a scene are something to insult and make fun of. While I see the ease of which people could jump on the hilarity bandwagon, I'm still rather sickened by it. Society creates hate and intolerance. Fuck Society. __________________ http://wotlabs.net/s...8/signature.png http://wotlabs.net/sig_dark/na/banichi18/signature.png

03-09-2005, 03:08 PM	#16
Bee Pro Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Fairfax, VA	Well my D&D game consists of 2 lawyers, a guy with a pHD in biochemistry, a Division Manager for the Red Cross also with a pHD, and a VP of an engineering company...oh and a cook (don't ask). I wouldn't consider any of them losers or weak personalities...ok maybe the cook...

03-09-2005, 03:08 PM	#17
rkmsuf Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2001	Yes, yes. The tennis ball was particulary creative as the lightning bolt. __________________ "Don't you have homes?" -- Judge Smales

03-09-2005, 03:15 PM	#18
sachmo71 The boy who cried Trout Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: TX	I think Ren is having a bad day. Ren, I am as big of a stealth geek as you will find, and I found it funny, too.

03-09-2005, 04:31 PM	#21
Sharpieman Greatly Missed. (7/11/84-06/12/05) Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Palo Alto, CA	Don't the vast majority of people in the world already frown down on D&D players? __________________ Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.

03-09-2005, 04:33 PM	#22
Ksyrup This guy has posted so much, his fingers are about to fall off. Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: In Absentia	And most can't get security clearance for the office microwave. __________________ M's pitcher Miguel Batista: "Now, I feel like I've had everything. I've talked pitching with Sandy Koufax, had Kenny G play for me. Maybe if I could have an interview with God, then I'd be served. I'd be complete."

03-09-2005, 05:22 PM	#25
Franklinnoble Banned Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Placerville, CA	So, I suppose I shouldn't mention my robe and wizard hat if I'm interviewing for any federal jobs requiring a security clearance?

03-10-2005, 12:41 AM	#29
Dutch "Dutch" Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Tampa, FL	So, does this mean the Arabs have been letting D&D guys into their armies for decades?

03-10-2005, 01:22 AM	#30
Vinatieri for Prez College Starter Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Seattle	Am I the only one amazed that the guy took 8 lightning bolt and 2 sleep spells before he went down. That is some serious "constitution" and "hit points" going on there. Last edited by Vinatieri for Prez : 03-10-2005 at 01:22 AM.

03-10-2005, 01:42 AM	#31
Neon_Chaos Pro Starter Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Parañaque, Philippines	well. Vin Diesel is a big D&D nut.

03-10-2005, 05:09 AM	#32
KeyserSoze H.S. Freshman Team Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Spain	Yeah . You need a much stronger personality to sit and watch the tv hours and hours day in day out.

03-10-2005, 07:40 AM	#34
Eilim High School Varsity Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Foxboro,MA	quick threadjack... To any roleplaying fans who like their games somewhat on the quirky side (not running around yelling "Lightning bolt" quirky, mind you.), check out Its a Dog life RPG . Just picked up the second edition for 6 bucks at RPGnow and have to say I can't wait to try it out in a gaming session. /end threadjack

03-10-2005, 08:05 AM	#35
Bee Pro Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Fairfax, VA	What I find funny about this is the main reason I play D&D is for the tactical combat. With the latest ruleset, the combat is similar to playing a strategic war game. I guess the Israeli army wants grunts who do what they're told and not generals...

03-10-2005, 09:48 PM	#36
Dutch "Dutch" Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Tampa, FL	Well, a battlefield full of generals would definately suck.

03-10-2005, 10:17 PM	#37
Greyroofoo Pro Starter Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Alabama	Too many chiefs and not enough indians

03-10-2005, 10:31 PM	#38
Flasch186 Coordinator Join Date: May 2002 Location: Jacksonville, FL	LIGHTNING BOLT! LIGHTNING BOLT! www.dungeonmajesty.com be prepared because it IS exactly as awful as you think it could be!! __________________ Jacksonville-florida-homes-for-sale Putting a New Spin on Real Estate! ----------------------------------------------------------- Commissioner of the USFL USFL

03-15-2005, 01:52 AM	#39
Vinatieri for Prez College Starter Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Seattle	Yeah, but go there (http://www.dungeonmajesty.com/home.html) and check out pic 12: You will be pleasantly surprised, trust me! Last edited by Vinatieri for Prez : 03-15-2005 at 01:54 AM.

03-15-2005, 02:14 AM	#40
Sun Tzu Pro Starter Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: In the thick of it.	I hear Robert E. Lee was into D&D big. __________________ I'm still here. Don't touch my fucking bacon.

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)