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Old 11-07-2006, 06:37 PM   #1
Buccaneer
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A libertarian voter on election day

This article speaks to me (bolded the key points)

Quote:
WASHINGTON — Libertarians — people who cringe at intrusive government, high taxes, nation-building and politicians telling them how to behave — could turn out to be the key swing voters in Tuesday's contentious midterm election.

And, in an unusual development, that might not bode well for Republicans this time around.

A number of political scientists and libertarian pundits say that libertarian voters who sided with the Republicans in the past have become disgusted with bloated federal spending, the war in Iraq and prevailing social conservatism in the GOP-dominated White House and Congress. Many feel libertarian voters will either vote for Democrats on Tuesday or just stay home, and that could play a role in deciding key battleground races.

Republicans need to be taught a lesson — that they can't keep thumbing their noses at us," said Chuck Muth, president of Citizen Outreach, a libertarian think tank in Washington.

“Very few of us will vote Democrat. A lot of us will stay home,” he said.
Muth, who lives and works in Nevada, has long considered himself a Republican. But not this year. He points out that libertarians aren’t necessarily card-carrying members of the Libertarian Party, but have long toiled away in the conservative movement of the Republican Party.
"A lot of columnists and conservative leaders in the movement are saying, I don’t care how angry you are, you have to go out and vote Republican," Muth said. "No I don't. They haven't earned it."

For months, the cracks have been showing in Republican support from the usual backers: in the most recent FOX News Poll, 78 percent of Republicans said they were definitely voting Republican on Tuesday, a drop from previous election cycles.

“We are seeing greater solidarity among Democrats than among Republicans,” said Scott Keeter of the Pew Center for the People and the Press, which has conducted extensive public opinion polling throughout the election cycle.

While Republicans have recently been courting wary social and religious conservatives with a media blitz that concentrates on border protection and gay marriage, those who consider themselves libertarian-conservatives say they feel they have been given the shaft for the last six years.

"With libertarians you have to worry about turnout and whether they might even vote Democrat," said David Boaz, vice president of the Cato Institute, which in October released "The Libertarian Vote" with David Kirby, executive director of the America's Future Foundation.

The Cato report, which crunches numbers from the Pew Center, the Gallup Governance Study and the American National Election Studies, asserts that voters with libertarian ideals make up about 13 percent of the electorate, and though they preferred George W. Bush in the last two presidential elections, the president's support actually declined among these voters from a 50 point lead over Al Gore in 2000 to a 21 point lead over John Kerry in 2004.

“That was the original reason why I got into this race,” said Brian Houillion, a Libertarian Party candidate for Congress in the conservative 4th District of Kentucky, where former Democratic Rep. Ken Lucas is running neck-and-neck with GOP Rep. Geoff Davis.

“In our area, in northern Kentucky, I saw how voters have become disillusioned and disappointed with our system,” he said. “I saw Republicans, who through the 1980s and '90s were trying to be fiscally conservative and trying to limit government and its power, not doing that anymore. They’re trying to make government bigger than even the Democrats before them.”

According to Pew, libertarians make up around 9 percent of the electorate. They also find that 50 percent of libertarians typically identify with or lean Republican, while 41 percent identify or lean Democratic and 9 percent are independent or unaffiliated.

About 18 percent of independents in today’s electorate hold libertarian values, according to Boaz, suggesting that if libertarians are indeed looking for a change, they could be playing a role in the strong independent movement toward Democrats this year.

According to an October Washington Post/ABC News poll, independent voters are supporting Democrats 2 to 1 over Republicans.

“I think if libertarians don’t have someone from the (Libertarian Party) on their ballot … I think a strong number of them will vote for the Democrats,” said Butch Morgan, a Democratic Party official in the 2nd Congressional District in northern Indiana, where Democrat Joe Donnelly is giving GOP incumbent Rep. Chris Chocola a run for his money.

Disaffected Republican voters who say GOP-led Washington has led to bloat and bad government are the ones who can really affect the turnout on Tuesday, he said.

“I’m hearing a lot of that at headquarters,” said Morgan. “A little balance is what they are looking for. That is what people are telling us and we’re listening to them.”

But not everyone is convinced that Republicans — even those with libertarian values — are leaving the party in droves. Carol Tabor, president of Family Security Matters, said national security is still a top issue among Republican voters, and they are not likely to vote for a Democrat on that score.

“It depends on turnout — I wish I had a crystal ball,” she said. “While there is a tremendous disappointment in the Republicans, its not enough to punish them by not voting for them,” particularly when they feel Democrats are so bad on the issue.

Ed Patru, spokesman for the National Republican Congressional Committee, said libertarians certainly aren’t going to find solace with the Democrats, who he says have made it “crystal clear in unambiguous terms that they want to repeal the tax cuts and tax relief as we know it.

“Along with that, they’ve promised billions of dollars in new spending … and bloat the size of government beyond what anybody can imagine,” Patru said.

But Keeter points out that national security isn’t as hot an issue among voters as it was in 2002 and 2004 and concern about the Iraq war has consistently topped their surveys among voters.

“A lot of what happened in 2002 and 2004 was some of these (swing) groups’ ideological views were overshadowed by national security and the War on Terror. We know that terrorism is not as prominent an issue for people today,” Keeter said.

“I think if libertarians are not making up their mind on the basis of terrorism they are open to persuasion by Democrats today because of issues like gay marriage, stem cell research,” he said, noting that libertarians do not think the government has any place in deciding who can marry, and should not impede on important medical research based on moral beliefs. "You can see libertarians taking more things into account as they make their minds up.”

I voted early this morning. In the race for the US House, I wrote in our retiring Congressman as he leans libertarian. For the State House, I voted Libertarian. The rest I left blank.

For the 20+ issues on the ballot, I simply shaded in the "NO" circle on every single one.

It is my hope that by 2008, more voters would be libertarian-minded since it does have appeal to the whole political spectrum.


Last edited by Buccaneer : 11-07-2006 at 06:38 PM.
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Old 11-07-2006, 06:52 PM   #2
Jonathan Ezarik
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Originally Posted by Buccaneer View Post
I voted early this morning. In the race for the US House, I wrote in our retiring Congressman as he leans libertarian. For the State House, I voted Libertarian. The rest I left blank.

For the 20+ issues on the ballot, I simply shaded in the "NO" circle on every single one.

It is my hope that by 2008, more voters would be libertarian-minded since it does have appeal to the whole political spectrum.

No offense, but I don't see how your votes help your cause. Writing in for a candidate that is retiring is basically throwing away your vote. And there are libertarian-minded candidates. They're called Democrats. And while I would love to have a valid third party, right now that isn't a choice. So why not vote for the party that most appeals to your values?
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Old 11-07-2006, 06:55 PM   #3
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And there are libertarian-minded candidates. They're called Democrats.

Do you know what a Libertarian is?

A good hint would be if the person gets mad when you talk about raising the taxes on the top 1% of Americans and universal health care, he just may be a Libertarian .
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Old 11-07-2006, 07:05 PM   #4
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Biggle must have changed his screen name to Ezarik (unless he's Jesse). But to take the bait, there is something called "principles". Voting for red or blue does not adhere to those principles, esp. after what we've seen the Reps done the past 6 years and the Dems for 30 years during my lifetime. But I'll just excuse you for being clueless.

The majority of eligible voters will stay home today. Many are disgusted with the business of politics and if they do vote, it will be for none of the above (unless you think that changing from one evil to another will solve anything). However, as other articles pointed out, gridlock will be a desirable thing but I am not sure exactly what will achieve more of that.

If you think about it, what has much greater impact on our lives are the local issues. That's what many don't realize when they look to Washington DC for "answers" or "solutions". The reason I voted no on all but one issue is the simple mantra the the government (no matter what level) the governs least, governs best. The one issue I voted yes on was to allow a competing cable company to come into one section of town. Breaking up a monopoly is a cool value to vote for.
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Old 11-07-2006, 07:25 PM   #5
Jonathan Ezarik
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Biggle must have changed his screen name to Ezarik (unless he's Jesse). But to take the bait, there is something called "principles". Voting for red or blue does not adhere to those principles, esp. after what we've seen the Reps done the past 6 years and the Dems for 30 years during my lifetime. But I'll just excuse you for being clueless.

You're the one who thinks that your little stunt today is going to change anything and you call me clueless? I would think that your vast years of experience would tell you that this is the system we have. Do I like it? Hell no. I would love to have a valid third party in this country but it's not happening any time soon. You can vote your principles all you want, but why complain when nothing changes? Why should a politician listen to you? Especially if you only represent 9 percent of the electorate?

Quote:
The majority of eligible voters will stay home today. Many are disgusted with the business of politics and if they do vote, it will be for none of the above (unless you think that changing from one evil to another will solve anything).

Are you talking about voters in general, or libertarian voters?

And yes, I know what a libertarian is. I also know that in today's world, the Democratic party is closer to libertarian views than the Republican party.
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Old 11-07-2006, 07:35 PM   #6
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In general. Would 35% turnout be expected?
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Old 11-07-2006, 07:38 PM   #7
Jonathan Ezarik
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I've heard that voter turnout has been pretty high, especially with it being an off year.
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Old 11-07-2006, 07:41 PM   #8
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You can vote your principles all you want, but why complain when nothing changes? Why should a politician listen to you? Especially if you only represent 9 percent of the electorate?

Officially, yes but according to a recent poll, more than half of those polled lean towards libertarian values. Take me, for example, I am not counted in the 9% since I have never registered for a political party (R, D or L).

But to answer your question. Because they will not listen and will cater primarily to their own self-interest of power and corruption, we get the politicians we deserve because voters think re-re-re-re-re-re-re-electing the likes of Byrd, Kennedy, Stevens, etc. will actually make more of a difference than voting what you truly believe is right.
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Old 11-07-2006, 07:41 PM   #9
Bubba Wheels
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And yes, I know what a libertarian is. I also know that in today's world, the Democratic party is closer to libertarian views than the Republican party.
Not hardly! Big government tax and spend Democrats being even close to libertarians??? Don't think so at all.
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Old 11-07-2006, 07:42 PM   #10
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Not hardly! Big government tax and spend Democrats and Republicans being even close to libertarians??? Don't think so at all.

Fixed.

If you and Erirak start a pissing contest, I'll delete this thread and start over.
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Old 11-07-2006, 07:42 PM   #11
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And yes, I know what a libertarian is. I also know that in today's world, the Democratic party is closer to libertarian views than the Republican party.

Eh. I wouldn't say that. I think liberation-minded (tend to lean to the center wings of the party line) candidates exist on both sides of the party. Both parties are just too far-winged, in general, to be able to match up with the liberatarian values.
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Old 11-07-2006, 07:43 PM   #12
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Eh. I wouldn't say that. I think liberation-minded (tend to lean to the center wings of the party line) candidates exist on both sides of the party. Both parties are just too far-winged, in general, to be able to match up with the liberatarian values.

That would be a more accurate statement.
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Old 11-07-2006, 07:44 PM   #13
Jonathan Ezarik
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Not hardly! Big government tax and spend Democrats being even close to libertarians??? Don't think so at all.

And I suppose the big spending Republican government (which has gotten much larger in the past six years) is closer? Especially with that whole getting involved with people's private lives (gay marriage), spying on people, that sort of thing.
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Old 11-07-2006, 07:47 PM   #14
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His vote, he can vote how he likes.

For what it is worth, where I could on the ballot today, I voted Libertarian.

I've never voted for any party other than Republican or Democratic. If my vote is deemed useless and clueless.. oh well.
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Old 11-07-2006, 07:49 PM   #15
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Fixed.

If you and Erirak start a pissing contest, I'll delete this thread and start over.

I won't defend Republicans, since this is the first time I split my ticket between Gop and Tax Payer Party (also called Constitution Party elsewhere).

But if the Libertarian Party starts to gain traction it will come from ticked-off Republicans, not from Democrats. BTW, must be nice to have a 'delete' button. How's that feel?
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Old 11-07-2006, 07:50 PM   #16
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His vote, he can vote how he likes.

For what it is worth, where I could on the ballot today, I voted Libertarian.

I've never voted for any party other than Republican or Democratic. If my vote is deemed useless and clueless.. oh well.

Thank you. It's only the Big Party machines that makes you believe you are wasting your vote, not realizing how wasteful it has been sending those politicans to DC for the past 40 years.
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Old 11-07-2006, 07:53 PM   #17
Jonathan Ezarik
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Officially, yes but according to a recent poll, more than half of those polled lean towards libertarian values. Take me, for example, I am not counted in the 9% since I have never registered for a political party (R, D or L).

But to answer your question. Because they will not listen and will cater primarily to their own self-interest of power and corruption, we get the politicians we deserve because voters think re-re-re-re-re-re-re-electing the likes of Byrd, Kennedy, Stevens, etc. will actually make more of a difference than voting what you truly believe is right.

I'm not surprised that most voters have libertarian values. I know I do. I don't want the government telling me what I can and can't do. I know I don't want the government spying on me. I know that I value my rights and don't want the government to take any of them away. That's the same view as most liberals. We might differ on taxes, but we do have some things in common. That was my point. Is libertarian support of Republicans based entirely on taxes and ignoring everything else?

So what's your plan for getting more libertarian candidates? You'd better get them in one of the two parties because otherwise they won't stand a chance. Doing your little protest isn't going to change anything. Especially in today's politics where it comes down to voting for the lesser of two evils.

Oh, and my last name is Ezarik. Ezarik. I'm not Jesse.
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Old 11-07-2006, 07:56 PM   #18
Jonathan Ezarik
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His vote, he can vote how he likes.

For what it is worth, where I could on the ballot today, I voted Libertarian.

I've never voted for any party other than Republican or Democratic. If my vote is deemed useless and clueless.. oh well.

You're right. It is his vote to do as he chooses. And you're free to vote as you like, too. But I don't understand all the hang wringing when nothing changes. What do you expect to happen? Do you really expect a Libertarian candidate to win?
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Old 11-07-2006, 07:59 PM   #19
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I won't defend Republicans, since this is the first time I split my ticket between Gop and Tax Payer Party (also called Constitution Party elsewhere).

But if the Libertarian Party starts to gain traction it will come from ticked-off Republicans, not from Democrats. BTW, must be nice to have a 'delete' button. How's that feel?

It will not be the Libertarian Party. In the most libertarian city in the second most libertarian state in the US (after NH), the Libertarian Party has disbanded. They had gone about it wrong. Instead of working from the grassroots, they tried to make a splash at the top.

I fully believe the time is right to get the message out because of widespread voter discontent that is being drowned out by the red/blue hype/myth. Look how many criticize taxation, nation-building spendings, Patriot Act, security over civil liberties, PAC influence, earmarks, morality by legislation, incompetent federal beauracracies, protectionism, govt land grabs, etc.
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Old 11-07-2006, 07:59 PM   #20
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Thanks for posting that Bucc. I could never really get a handle on where you were coming from and always felt your position smelled a bit fishy. Now I understand and respect it a lot more.

I don't agree with it but I understand it and can certainly see the appeal in the argument.
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Old 11-07-2006, 08:00 PM   #21
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I'm not surprised that most voters have libertarian values. I know I do. I don't want the government telling me what I can and can't do. I know I don't want the government spying on me. I know that I value my rights and don't want the government to take any of them away. That's the same view as most liberals. We might differ on taxes, but we do have some things in common. That was my point. Is libertarian support of Republicans based entirely on taxes and ignoring everything else?

So what's your plan for getting more libertarian candidates? You'd better get them in one of the two parties because otherwise they won't stand a chance. Doing your little protest isn't going to change anything. Especially in today's politics where it comes down to voting for the lesser of two evils.

Oh, and my last name is Ezarik. Ezarik. I'm not Jesse.

You differ on taxes with Bucc, or with the Democrats?
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Old 11-07-2006, 08:05 PM   #22
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What do you expect to happen? Do you really expect a Libertarian candidate to win?

Using that logic, you might as well vote for any candidate that is ahead in all the polls by any significant margin that could be deemed as impossible to overcome. After all, why vote for a loser...
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Old 11-07-2006, 08:06 PM   #23
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Thanks for posting that Bucc. I could never really get a handle on where you were coming from and always felt your position smelled a bit fishy. Now I understand and respect it a lot more.

I don't agree with it but I understand it and can certainly see the appeal in the argument.

I think the perception has been about legalizing all drugs, opening up all borders and stuff like that. That would be the extremist wing, just like the Reps and Dems have their extremist wings. But thanks for your kind words.
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Old 11-07-2006, 08:09 PM   #24
Jonathan Ezarik
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You differ on taxes with Bucc, or with the Democrats?

I meant liberals and libertarians differ on taxes.
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Old 11-07-2006, 08:11 PM   #25
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You differ on taxes with Bucc, or with the Democrats?

Taxes fall under the general heading of govt revenues/expenditures - not something that is inherently good or bad in of itself. I (and other libertarians) have been criticized for talking about "money" but the point is not about money but how money is used for power and corruption in the federal govt (esp. against local govts, private citizens and busineses). The evil is the increasing power of the federal govt and money (or taxation, "wastes", etc.) are just means to that end.
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Old 11-07-2006, 08:11 PM   #26
Jonathan Ezarik
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Using that logic, you might as well vote for any candidate that is ahead in all the polls by any significant margin that could be deemed as impossible to overcome. After all, why vote for a loser...

Not really. If you vote for one of the two major party candidates, you know you have at least a hope of winning because it's going to come down to one of those two. But you know going in that a libertarian candidate doesn't stand a chance.
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Old 11-07-2006, 08:21 PM   #27
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Not really. If you vote for one of the two major party candidates, you know you have at least a hope of winning because it's going to come down to one of those two. But you know going in that a libertarian candidate doesn't stand a chance.

I never understood this argument.

Here's a reality check - your one vote won't turn any election. The personal importance of voting goes far deeper than trying to influence the outcome of an individual election. Going against ones values to in a futile attempt to alter election results just makes no practical sense.

If people voted their conscious, and not strategically, we'd have more meaningful options on election day.
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Old 11-07-2006, 08:27 PM   #28
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I just read something regarding the exit polls. They are making the conclusion that voting has become more national, as oppose to local as has been said for decades. I don't know about that because in many places, the representative (or at least the party) will not change and there are a lot of hot button state/local issues to vote on. A voter cannot vote for gridlock (if that's a goal) because we can only vote for one candidate. Voters rightly feel frustration about the whole process but if they actually take the time to look at the ballot, there is very little "national" in it.
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Old 11-07-2006, 08:28 PM   #29
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Not to mention that with campaign finance laws, I believe you need 5% to get funded from a Presidential standpoint. (I'm sure there are probably other laws on the books too but, not sure of them all).

So, outright winning isn't everything. There are other goals to be achieved.
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Old 11-07-2006, 08:30 PM   #30
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i consider myself a libertarian, i'm extremely anti-big gov, but the one area i differ is i am opposed to gay marriage. opposed in the sense that i don't agree w/ it, not in the sense that i would attend a rally. i don't care all that much, but if you ask me my opinion on that issue you would know where i stand.

i don't vote though. if i want to make a point rather than throwing away a vote i would sooner just stay home and post on a message board and try to sway people's opinion's like Bucc does on many occassions. more effective that way. i'm not naive enough to think silly little voting protests will affect anything other than making a voting line longer for someone behind me whose vote will go towards one of the big two party candidates.
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Old 11-07-2006, 08:31 PM   #31
Jonathan Ezarik
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If people voted their conscious, and not strategically, we'd have more meaningful options on election day.

In theory, yes, but that's not how things are. And if you want to vote your conscience, do so. But again, don't complain when nothing changes. If you want to change the system, you have to work with it. Right now that means working within one of the two main parties.
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Old 11-07-2006, 08:35 PM   #32
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In theory, yes, but that's not how things are. And if you want to vote your conscience, do so. But again, don't complain when nothing changes. If you want to change the system, you have to work with it. Right now that means working within one of the two main parties.

Not if you live in states like MA, WV or AK where nothing will ever change with the likes of Byrd, Kennedy or Stevens.
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Old 11-07-2006, 08:47 PM   #33
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Not if you live in states like MA, WV or AK where nothing will ever change with the likes of Byrd, Kennedy or Stevens.

Well, in cases like that you should vote for Byrd, Kennedy, or Stevens. Do you really think that voting for someone else will change anything?
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Old 11-07-2006, 08:50 PM   #34
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i consider myself a libertarian, i'm extremely anti-big gov, but the one area i differ is i am opposed to gay marriage. opposed in the sense that i don't agree w/ it, not in the sense that i would attend a rally. i don't care all that much, but if you ask me my opinion on that issue you would know where i stand.

i don't vote though. if i want to make a point rather than throwing away a vote i would sooner just stay home and post on a message board and try to sway people's opinion's like Bucc does on many occassions. more effective that way. i'm not naive enough to think silly little voting protests will affect anything other than making a voting line longer for someone behind me whose vote will go towards one of the big two party candidates.

Check out the Constitution Party. A Constitutional named Jore just might win a congress seat in Montana.
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Old 11-07-2006, 08:52 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by mckerney View Post
Well, in cases like that you should vote for Byrd, Kennedy, or Stevens. Do you really think that voting for someone else will change anything?

And that's the point. As long as they (or their protoges) are in positions of power in Congress, how will voting for or against them change that? Might as well vote your values. What I'm trying to say that working within the party is all and good except when you have those three I mentioned (as well as others) that will go against what you will believe.
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Old 11-07-2006, 09:16 PM   #36
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I always found it distasteful people saying they are "throwing away their vote" by voting for a 3rd Party candidate because they "can't win". What ever happened to democracy and voting for who most agrees with you? Why vote for a person you really really don't like, but you dislike a small amount less than the other guy?

It's a copout to try to bring people into voting for one of the 2 major party candidates.

Listen, I voted for a Libertarian for Governor in Georgia. It wouldn't have mattered AT ALL if I voted for the Democrat. The Republican won easily... so why vote for the Dem or Libertarian? And Hell, I despised both candidates enough that if I didn't vote for the Libertarian, I wouldn't have voted for either of them... is that better for you?
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Old 11-07-2006, 09:33 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by ISiddiqui View Post
It's a copout to try to bring people into voting for one of the 2 major party candidates.

You know, I used to be an idealist, too. I wanted a third party to make a serious challenge. I was hoping Perot would do well in 1992 and Nader in 2000. And what happened? I watched as those two did nothing more than play spoiler. They never had a chance to be elected. What they did was prevent someone else from being elected.

Now, maybe you like playing the role of spoiler, but not me. After 2000 it became clear that I could either keep pulling for third parties, or I could work with one of the parties that actually has a chance to win and make changes that way. Change the system from within.
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Old 11-07-2006, 09:36 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Jonathan Ezarik
I watched as those two did nothing more than play spoiler.

And got their message out... and showed there was undercurrant of discontent in the major parties.

Quote:
What they did was prevent someone else from being elected.

GOOD. Maybe they'll pay attention to some of the disenchanted.
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Old 11-07-2006, 09:37 PM   #39
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You got to change the people's attitude, knowledge and expectations before the system can be changed.
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Old 11-07-2006, 09:41 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by ISiddiqui View Post
And got their message out... and showed there was undercurrant of discontent in the major parties.



GOOD. Maybe they'll pay attention to some of the disenchanted.

Have you noticed any change in the last 14 years for Repubs or 6 years for Dems?
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Old 11-07-2006, 09:42 PM   #41
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You got to change the people's attitude, knowledge and expectations before the system can be changed.

How do you plan to do this? With your little write-in stunt for a retired Congressman?
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Old 11-07-2006, 09:44 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Jonathan Ezarik View Post
You know, I used to be an idealist, too. I wanted a third party to make a serious challenge. I was hoping Perot would do well in 1992 and Nader in 2000. And what happened? I watched as those two did nothing more than play spoiler. They never had a chance to be elected. What they did was prevent someone else from being elected.

Now, maybe you like playing the role of spoiler, but not me. After 2000 it became clear that I could either keep pulling for third parties, or I could work with one of the parties that actually has a chance to win and make changes that way. Change the system from within.

I'm still unclear how voting for a candidate who you don't like, but who comes from an established party can "change the system from within"
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Old 11-07-2006, 09:46 PM   #43
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How do you plan to do this? With your little write-in stunt for a retired Congressman?

Who would you have me vote for? Joel Hefley will pick up quite a number of write-in votes. He has been very critical of his Rep. replacement (for good reasons). His opponent is no better. Joel headed the House Ethics Committee and he went against the wishes of the leadership to act on one of the Rep. Congressman under investigation (forgot which).
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Old 11-07-2006, 09:47 PM   #44
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Have you noticed any change in the last 14 years for Repubs or 6 years for Dems?

Actually... the Republicans and Democrats have gotten a bit more extreme. I think part of that may be in response to 3rd party candidates at the extremes.

Though I wonder how voting for the Republican or Democrats would have changed those parties any.
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Old 11-07-2006, 09:50 PM   #45
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The Constitution party is a bunch of nutjobs - if you're going 3rd, at least go Libertarian.
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Old 11-07-2006, 09:53 PM   #46
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I don't understand how any of you are not voting Dem in this election esp. after what the Rep. have been doing.

Fixed.

Sorry, just slipped out.
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Old 11-07-2006, 09:59 PM   #47
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I live in that congressional district in KY that was mentioned in Bucc's article. I didn't vote today. I was working and I didn't try to get my absentee ballot. I would have voted for the Libertarian candidate for many of the reason's that were mentioned here. Houillion looks like he will grab about 5% of the vote, with Davis (R) retaining the seat 51-44.

I have voted strongly Republican for years, but I have been so frustrated and ticked off by the direction that Bush has lead the party. The main problem that I have is the complete lack of fiscal awareness. I really feel that this article speaks accurately about the way that many moderate republicans like myself feel. Normally I would be dissapointed by the results of the election tonight, but the party needed a wakeup call, they needed to get kicked in the ass, because they have drifted too far off the deep end, and if they want to get some of us back they need to rethink their strategies.
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Old 11-07-2006, 10:18 PM   #48
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Thanks PilotMan, that was well said.

One of the things I have been thinking about today is what was brought up earlier: where would libertarian-minded candidates come from? Historically is has crossed party lines (witness the late Sen. Proxmire, D-WI). It is perceived that it would be more libertarian-conservative as oppose to libertarian-liberal because one of the basic tenets of liberalism is socialism (the opposite of libertarianism). Maybe they will be better defenders of civil liberties but then again, I think about the clamp down on free speech in universities as well as past efforts regarding censorships. Perhaps they are no different in that they are for/against things if it suits them or can be used to their advantage.

So if it's not clear that libertarianism comes from a political platform, perhaps it comes from certain parts of the country or certain demographics or certain socio-economics or something else?

Just rambling...
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Old 11-07-2006, 10:23 PM   #49
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Only thing I'm concerned about is stopping another major terrorist strike on U.S. soil. Since it's starting to look like the Dems will take Congress (at least the House), I expect to see a mushroom cloud over an American city within the next 5 years or so.
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Old 11-07-2006, 10:24 PM   #50
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You think Bush will nuke bomb his own people?
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