Science Projects for a 13 year old girl

[Marc Vaughan]

Hi,

As most of you know I'm new to America and am in the novel situation of having to help my daughter on an 'extra credit' science project to under take - I have no idea whats acceptable as far as such things go or what level of complexity is expected with either the experiment or the write up.

Current ideas are very "boy toy" (ie. things I've enjoy doing myself):

* Building and launching a rocket
* Writing a simple 'space lander' computer game to demonstrate the effect of various aspects of physics.

Both of these Haley could handle (I'd obviously 'help' a little with the computer game - but would leave the plumbing and understanding of the majority of the equations up to her - she's a bright kid).

What I don't know is 'would these be acceptable?' and 'how much help is a parent allowed to give?' ...

Err help .... I've tried asking the teacher involved and recieved pretty much a shrug of the shoulders in that "you should know" sort of way ...

(and yes I am open to suggestions the ones above are just those which I've come up with off the top of my head - however I'm more than happy to hear other peoples suggestions, not least because perhaps one of them will be of more excitment to Haley*)

*Haley is very bright, likes animals and wants to work with them when she's older. She loves computers and computer games (although not FM ).

[molson]

I think building a rocket would be a big hit with that age-group.

Writing a computer game wouldn't go over so well.

Even if both would require similar parental input, the former seems a little less blatant. And I think that's kind of the rule. Kids are expected to get help from them parents, but it if it's something that's just completely outside the realms of what a 13-year old girl could do herself (computer game), a lot of the kids with lesser projects are just going to be annoyed.

But everyone likes rockets.

[Eaglesfan27]

At 13, I'm assuming she is either in 8th grade or a freshman in H.S. Most parents help a bit, but it is sort of unspoken that they help. If you help too much and that becomes obvious, I think you risk the teacher holding that against Haley, but a little guidance and help on either of those projects probably would be fine. I also think both sound like reasonable projects for that age/grade level.

[terpkristin]

She could always do the Barbie electric chair.
http://www.boingboing.net/2007/09/07...-a-barbie.html

Somehow, I don't see Mattel selling that particular accessory. Just what DID Barbie do with the Dream Car to deserve that?

Edit to add: Yes, I realize how horrible that is, though it DOES demonstrate how electricity works. As one who's against the death penalty, the idea sickens me, but as one who likes the idea of a melted Barbie, I'm intrigued.

Anyway, we didn't do science projects when I was in middle school. In 5th grade (when I was 10), I did a science project about bone density, demonstrating how horribly vinegar (a base) destroys bones. As an aerospace engineer, I of course totally love the idea of model rockets, but I can honestly say that when I was 13 years old (and being a girl), I wasn't really interested in them. Granted, at that point in time, I thought I was going to be a doctor. What is she interested in?

/tk

[rowech]

Kids love seeing things blow up....that's the bottom line. Anything you can do that might involve explosions, eruptions, crashes, etc. is going to be a big hit.

[terpkristin]

Originally Posted by rowech

Kids love seeing things blow up....that's the bottom line. Anything you can do that might involve explosions, eruptions, crashes, etc. is going to be a big hit.

Yeah, but what's the point of a science project? Is it to amuse your classmates or is it to pick something that interests you and actually learn something? I'd think it's the latter. If she digs the rockets, cool, but I wouldn't get hung up on it because it's something "everybody else will like." Maybe that's just my opinion. I've found that girls at that age tend to get steered away from science (in working with them through college, and watching my peers when I was growing up)...

You said she's interested in animals. Do you have any pets? If yes, maybe she could experiment with different types of food for said pet, and examine the correlation between how much it eats, what it's got in it that's good for it (how "healthy" it is), and how that impacts its weight (or something like that).

Just my $0.02.

/tk

[terpkristin]

Dola,

What are the requirements of the project? Is it just to do something? Does she have to explain how things work/what science has been done? To take the example of the model rocket stuff, it's great if she builds one and launches it, all fun and games, but the science that's going on there is about thrust and combustion and reactions (chemical and thermal). If she's not going to look at those, what's going on there, how is it really a "science" project?

Ok, I'm off my soapbox. Sorry.

/tk

[Radii]

Originally Posted by terpkristin

What are the requirements of the project? Is it just to do something? Does she have to explain how things work/what science has been done? To take the example of the model rocket stuff, it's great if she builds one and launches it, all fun and games, but the science that's going on there is about thrust and combustion and reactions (chemical and thermal). If she's not going to look at those, what's going on there, how is it really a "science" project?

Making/doing something that's kinda cool and hopefully learning just a little about the science behind sounds like every science fair type project ever to me! Doing something interesting and hopefully getting a very basic introduction to some concepts of physics that no 13 year old is going to know a thing about yet but that might help increase interest in science in general or those specific topics a few years down the road is exactly the point of these kinds of things IMO.

[RPI-Fan]

Rocket seems pretty easy for an extra credit project... I know we made them as part of a regular class project in 7th grade. I'd go for something a bit more novel...

[terpkristin]

Originally Posted by Radii

Making/doing something that's kinda cool and hopefully learning just a little about the science behind sounds like every science fair type project ever to me! Doing something interesting and hopefully getting a very basic introduction to some concepts of physics that no 13 year old is going to know a thing about yet but that might help increase interest in science in general or those specific topics a few years down the road is exactly the point of these kinds of things IMO.

That was sort of my point, though I admit I'm horrible with expressing it at times (I swear, I write better than most of my peers in engineering, but twice nothing is still nothing ).

I was just trying to say that "just" building and launching a rocket is nice and all, but without at least noting that there is SOMETHING going on (i.e. the burning up of the solid propellant, the energy from it being directed in one direction--down to make the rocket go up), it's not really what I'd consider a science project. You don't have to know what the exact reactions are or all the specifics, but there should be some observation/write up of what happened, IMO. A lot of teachers disagree, I've found, so I guess the question for MV is what is the teacher requesting in terms of the project?

/tk

[Shkspr]

In general, it seems to me that the experience of doing a science project is to give the student the experience of using scientific method to find things out. The topic doesn't have to be something spectacular; you're not putting on a show so it isn't about the special effects budget. That said, the general format of "Mythbusters" can come into play here: ask a question, form a hypothesis, and figure out how to determine whether the hypothesis is right or not. The help that parents can (and should) give is limited to overcoming the technical hurdles needed to test the hypothesis. The ideas for how to test the problem, as well as the modeling of the problem itself, should generally be hers.

The rocket case fails because launching the rocket illustrates scientific principles, but there isn't a valid framework for demonstrating WHY it's important to demonstrate those principles. Now if you can find a fun and interesting question that can be proved or disproved by launching a rocket, then go for it. In Mythbusters, this question might be phrased as "Can a person sitting on a chair be launched into space?" And you strap Buster into a chair and light off 50 firecrackers underneath him or something like that.

If she wants to work with animals, here's an idea: Can you, in fact, teach an old dog new tricks? She goes to Petsmart or a trainer, gets lessons on how to train dogs, and finds neighbors/family/friends with dogs at a variety of ages and uses the techniques she learned from the trainers to try to teach the dogs how to fetch, or jump over a fence, or something. She can then measure how many repititions it took to teach the dog, make qualitative judgments on the reliability of the trick learning, but mostly, she's playing with dogs. Animal behavior is a perfectly valid science.

[Shkspr]

Here's another dog question, quite a bit more complicated, but to illustrate finding questions in everyday life...

My wife and I have computers in the same room at one end of the house. Our yellow labs have kennels at the other end of the house. When my wife watches movies or plays games on her computer, the dogs stay silent. When I turn on the sound for my computer to play games, though, they always bark and fuss as if someone is breaking in. Why is that?

My working hypothesis is that my wife's computer is by the door to the room, which means that any sound traveling from her speakers to the dogs is relatively direct and easy to account for, while the sound from my computer bounces off a couple of walls making it difficult to locate directionally. An alternate hypothesis is that the construction of my computer's speakers differ from those of my wife, and that the shape of the sound waves unnerves the dogs when coming from my speakers. Or, it's possible that the content of what my wife and I play affects the dogs' comfort level - I play games that have more voice work and gunplay, while my wife plays games with more melody and music. Finally, it might be that I only turn the sound up on occasion because I play while my wife is asleep, while my wife always has the sound on, so the dogs are more used to sound from that direction.

Testing the hypothesis, then, becomes a matter of mixing and matching computer location, switching components around, and testing different aural content, and seeing how the dogs react. After a couple days of testing, I should have a pretty good idea of what sets the dogs off, and what doesn't.

More importantly, I get experience identifying a problem, framing an argument, and using logic to determine its validity. That kind of critical thinking is much more important than measuring a few thrust formulae.

[Karlifornia]

I'd suggest waiting until the night before the due-date, and then just googling "science project ideas".

[molson]

Tornado in a bottle.

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by terpkristin

Yeah, but what's the point of a science project? Is it to amuse your classmates or is it to pick something that interests you and actually learn something? I'd think it's the latter. If she digs the rockets, cool, but I wouldn't get hung up on it because it's something "everybody else will like." Maybe that's just my opinion. I've found that girls at that age tend to get steered away from science (in working with them through college, and watching my peers when I was growing up)...

You said she's interested in animals. Do you have any pets? If yes, maybe she could experiment with different types of food for said pet, and examine the correlation between how much it eats, what it's got in it that's good for it (how "healthy" it is), and how that impacts its weight (or something like that).

Just my $0.02.

/tk

I'd agree with you 100%. Last year I tried to get my son to figure out what interested him as opposed to googling for a science project. He likes to play on his Xbox 360, but sometimes his internet connection drops. His science fair project was to find out what devices interfere on the 2.4 Ghz spectrum. We used our wireless router, his laptop and Network Magic to test the upload and download rates. We put three things between his laptop and the router: 2.4 Ghz phone (while on), Xbox 360 wireless controller, and some walkie talkies (I don't think they were on the 2.4 Ghz spectrum, but nobody said anything).

Anyhow, the point is that kids should want to do a science fair project to learn more about this world we live. On a side note, I didn't know there were so many cash prizes for environmental science fair projects.

[Passacaglia]

So was the assignment really nothing more than "do a science project"? Man, teachers suck.

[Bonegavel]

didn't know you moved across the pond! Welcome and how do you like florida?

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

So was the assignment really nothing more than "do a science project"? Man, teachers suck.

Basically its 'extra credit' (or how it was presented to me and my daughter without this she can't get the highest grade possible - bear in mind Haley is amazingly studious and already appalled that she is getting ONLY B+'s in a couple of subjects here*).

There is no real 'assignment' or 'topic' for them and unfortunately I was away working in England for a month so am a bit floundering now to come back and find that this is meant to be 'underway' (the meeting where this was mentioned happened literally a day before I flew out).

Parenting - the hardest job you'll ever which without pay ...

Have Fun,

Marc
*She's finding it hard to accept that despite not ever having studied Spanish before she's only pulling a B+ after learning it for 6 months - go figure ... still could be worse, at least she's bothered about her grades.

[astrosfan64]

Originally Posted by molson

I think building a rocket would be a big hit with that age-group.

Writing a computer game wouldn't go over so well.

Even if both would require similar parental input, the former seems a little less blatant. And I think that's kind of the rule. Kids are expected to get help from them parents, but it if it's something that's just completely outside the realms of what a 13-year old girl could do herself (computer game), a lot of the kids with lesser projects are just going to be annoyed.

But everyone likes rockets.

Molson,

At 13 kids are quite capable of writing computer programs. I don't think it would be that bad for him to help in that project. Thats actually about the age that quite a few programming kids really get going.

[astrosfan64]

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

Hi,

As most of you know I'm new to America and am in the novel situation of having to help my daughter on an 'extra credit' science project to under take - I have no idea whats acceptable as far as such things go or what level of complexity is expected with either the experiment or the write up.

Current ideas are very "boy toy" (ie. things I've enjoy doing myself):

* Building and launching a rocket
* Writing a simple 'space lander' computer game to demonstrate the effect of various aspects of physics.

Both of these Haley could handle (I'd obviously 'help' a little with the computer game - but would leave the plumbing and understanding of the majority of the equations up to her - she's a bright kid).

What I don't know is 'would these be acceptable?' and 'how much help is a parent allowed to give?' ...

Err help .... I've tried asking the teacher involved and recieved pretty much a shrug of the shoulders in that "you should know" sort of way ...

(and yes I am open to suggestions the ones above are just those which I've come up with off the top of my head - however I'm more than happy to hear other peoples suggestions, not least because perhaps one of them will be of more excitment to Haley*)

*Haley is very bright, likes animals and wants to work with them when she's older. She loves computers and computer games (although not FM ).

Welcome to America