IT folks; Attendance policies in your work place

[secretCIO]

This is obviously a pseudonym, but I've got a question that for professional reasons requires that I remain anonymous.

I head an IT organization, and have recently been receiving some feedback on how I'm requiring my management team to enforce attendance policy. So, I'm looking for some feedback from a group of people that I do not know from Adam. Thus that requirement of anonymity.

If you're in IT, please let me know how attendance is managed in your shop.

"You'll be punching a time clock, if you can't get here ten minutes before your start time",
"I noticed that you arrived at 8:03 this morning. I put a note in your file."
...
"You came in ten minutes late twice this week. Are you having a problem that prevents you from making it in at your start time?"
...
"I'd appreciate it if you'd just let me know if you're going to be coming in after 9AM.",

"What time did you come in today?",

"Were you here yesterday?"

[cartman]

Pretty much whatever hours you want, as long as the work gets done. That's how I handle it.

[Peregrine]

At my work it's pretty casual, but if you come in late frequently (few times a week) the management would mention it to you.

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by Peregrine

At my work it's pretty casual, but if you come in late frequently (few times a week) the management would mention it to you.

Precisely.

[cartman]

Yeah, Peter, I noticed that you were a minute or two late. Gonna need you to add that to your TPS report.

[Calis]

My situation is a bit odd because I'm the only person in my "shop". My supervisor and co-workers are at a different building. I do clock in, and it does throw up a flag if I'm over 10 minutes early or late. I've never been bothered about it, but I'm sure I would if there was a trend.

No flexibility in my hours because I'm there directly supporting teaching staff so I have to be there the hours that they're scheduled.

[Passacaglia]

What was the feedback you received?

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by Peregrine

At my work it's pretty casual, but if you come in late frequently (few times a week) the management would mention it to you.

Yup, that's how it is for us too. Very flexible as long as you don't abuse it.

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by cartman

Pretty much whatever hours you want, as long as the work gets done. That's how I handle it.

Core hours of 10-4 that you must be present at the office for and a 40 hour work week, in theory. In practice, what he said.

Earned time off for all hours over 40 worked, but nobody actually claims all their hours.

[jeff061]

Consulting rocks. I can do whatever the hell I want and work whatever hours I want as long as I keep the time billable.

I can go a week without showing my face in the office or checking in with the bosses. As long as I don't abuse it.

[KWhit]

Our group is very laid back. Come in pretty much when you want; leave when you need to. Just make sure the work gets done and you meet your customer commitments.

But I work for a smallish software company, so YMMV.

[Peregrine]

Originally Posted by jeff061

Consulting rocks. I can do whatever the hell I want and work whatever hours I want as long as I keep the time billable.

I can go a week without showing my face in the office or checking in with the bosses. As long as I don't abuse it.

[Mustang]

I show up sometime between 7-9 and leave 8 1/2 - 9 hours later depending on how long of lunch I take.

I have a decent amount of leeway in the office just because of my knowledge base and what I do.

[Aylmar]

As long as you meet your deadlines and wear the pager a weekend a month, you can pretty much come and go as you please. It doesn't get abused (and if the perception gets going that someone is abusing it, the other employees will ride the person about being sure not to miss a deadline). We have remote access, though, so management knows that the time you spend in the office doesn't necessarily equate to the time you spend working.

[Galaxy]

Do you think companies, in general, work better with a more laid-back policy (provided you get the work done)?

[Maple Leafs]

I don't work in IT, but I do somewhat technical marketing work for a hi-tech company.

I have a rough set of hours, but if I take a long lunch or come in late, nobody says a word. I may give my manager a heads up if I know in advance, but that's more a courtesy than anything.

At the same time, I know that if I have to put in unpaid overtime or work from home on a weekend, that's part of the deal too.

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

Do you think companies, in general, work better with a more laid-back policy (provided you get the work done)?

I'd say so, because I think it makes employees happier to have that flexibility as it allows them to deal with other things that may crop up in their lives, yet still get their work done.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

Do you think companies, in general, work better with a more laid-back policy (provided you get the work done)?

I've been in two departments which had the the laid-back approach. Whether it works or not depends entirely on boss. Staff turnover is usually lower than places where it's stricter, but if the boss can't pull people in line who abuse the system, the quality of work will begin to fade.

[GoldenEagle]

My Boss:

"I'd appreciate it if you'd just let me know if you're going to be coming in after 9AM."

[BrianD]

If you expect people to put in time after-hours, you have to give them flexibility during the work day. Nobody likes a boss who watches the clock on your way in but doesn't notice how late you end up staying.

Beyond that, managing by time is lazy and pointless. If one worker can get more done in 7 hours a day than other employees get done in 8 hours a day, why penalize the guy who is more productive? Manage by results and treat people like professionals...then expect them to act like professionals.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by jeff061

Consulting rocks. I can do whatever the hell I want and work whatever hours I want as long as I keep the time billable.

I can go a week without showing my face in the office or checking in with the bosses. As long as I don't abuse it.

Same. And working remotely from home helps. Pretty much most of the IT shops I have been in you get the work/mission down however long it takes so if you come in usually between 8-9 am and leave between 4-5. Most places have people policing themselves. If management gets too strict on the time stuff with this crowd they are really gonna hurt there organization long term since they won't be able to retain or even initially attract quality resources.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by BrianD

If you expect people to put in time after-hours, you have to give them flexibility during the work day. Nobody likes a boss who watches the clock on your way in but doesn't notice how late you end up staying.

Beyond that, managing by time is lazy and pointless. If one worker can get more done in 7 hours a day than other employees get done in 8 hours a day, why penalize the guy who is more productive? Manage by results and treat people like professionals...then expect them to act like professionals.

This is so very true.

[Mota]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

I've been in two departments which had the the laid-back approach. Whether it works or not depends entirely on boss. Staff turnover is usually lower than places where it's stricter, but if the boss can't pull people in line who abuse the system, the quality of work will begin to fade.

Definitely. We had one guy in my division that kept coming in 40 minutes late, and then leaving along with everybody else. Made everybody pissed off because he would get away with it all the time. Why should we come in on time then?

Eventually the guy ended up getting canned (for different reasons but all of it was reflective of his don't care attitude), and the atmosphere is greatly improved at work. Everybody seems to be giving a bit more and things seem to be more flexible because no one is abusing it.

[Mota]

Originally Posted by BrianD

If you expect people to put in time after-hours, you have to give them flexibility during the work day. Nobody likes a boss who watches the clock on your way in but doesn't notice how late you end up staying.

Beyond that, managing by time is lazy and pointless. If one worker can get more done in 7 hours a day than other employees get done in 8 hours a day, why penalize the guy who is more productive? Manage by results and treat people like professionals...then expect them to act like professionals.

Exactly. I had a manager who used to watch your start time like a hawk and comment if you were 5 minutes late, and the entire staff would leave at exactly 5:00 because they equally watched the clock on the way out.

[jeff061]

Originally Posted by Peregrine

We hung that up on the wall at my last job, also a consulting gig . Though that was a single client deal....boring.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Core hours of 9-3. Beyond that, pretty flexible. We can even work extra hours one day in order to get off early on another day that week as long as we get our 40 hours in. No official clocking in, though we are requested to give a general schedule (i.e. do you tend to come in at 6:00 AM or are you more the 9:00 AM type).

[JimboJ]

We are allowed to come and go when we want, as long as you get your 40 hrs a week in. If I need to leave early or come in late one day, I'll just make up the time another day. No one really watches you, so its basically the honor system.

[Phototropic]

Mandatory 8-5 and we will hear about it if we are late. I'm sure we are an exception, and it's a constant cause for low morale and cynicism in the department. We also get little to no credit for after hours work unless it's to the point where we stay up all night, in which case we can come in an hour or two late.

I'm ok with 8-5 and do no more than I'm asked for the most part so I can live with it for now, but a lot of that is due to liking most of the people I work with.

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by BrianD

If you expect people to put in time after-hours, you have to give them flexibility during the work day. Nobody likes a boss who watches the clock on your way in but doesn't notice how late you end up staying.

Beyond that, managing by time is lazy and pointless. If one worker can get more done in 7 hours a day than other employees get done in 8 hours a day, why penalize the guy who is more productive? Manage by results and treat people like professionals...then expect them to act like professionals.

+1

[JediKooter]

Used to work in IT and it was pretty laid back as well. As long as the work got done and you put in your 40 hours a week, nothing was said.

I think it really depends on what the 'mission' is of the company and how to regulate the IT hours. Strict start and stop times may work for one department in the company, but, may not work for the IT department.

Quite truthfully though, if at the time of being hired and work hours were disclosed as not flexible, then those people should be showing up on time for work. There are going to be those times when someone is late for some unknown reason. If it happens a lot, then yes, there needs to be a discussion with all employees. An employee can account for traffic by leaving home earlier, what an employee can't account for is accidents or breakdowns or whatever that will cause traffic to be even worse than normal and the employee should be given the benefit of the doubt.

I do have agree with others who mentioned that you have a 'time keeper' watching the clock for employees being late, but, they never come to an employees desk at 5:05 asking them why are they still there.

The IT, software, hardware work environment is a completely different animal than your classic office type work place.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by JediKooter

The IT, software, hardware work environment is a completely different animal than your classic office type work place.

From my experience in 4 different IT shops, if the group is strict about time in/out, they usually have high turnover and aren't that productive. Conversely, the IT shops with flexibility tend to be more productive with less turnover and people are also more willing to help out with extra duties when needed.

[Toddzilla]

It really depends on the nature of the work - I've been in two completely different situations my last 2 jobs:

(1) At Sun Microsystems, the group I was in did Tier-3 work for customers that basically required our attention when there were problems. As long as we were available to fix issues that needed fixing, we could work whenever we wanted, wherever we wanted. Some people even moved to new cities but were successful because they could get the work done when it needed to be done.

In a case like this, you need to evaluate based on the results at the end of the day. Did all the work get done? Did it get done in an efficient manner? Was the end-user satuisfied?

(2) At my new position, I perform scheduled work for customers that generated by the customer as well as project managers. They submit requests and schedule them with my boss. This is a 9-5 scenario, so our attendance in the office is mandatory between those hours. If we are going to be late or leave early, we have to notify the group ahead of time. The people who can't keep the schedule have been asked to URAMO - Update Resume And Move On.

In this case, where attendance matters and directly impacts the level of support we provide, the bosses have every right to lay down the law. In fact, I'd prefer if they would pull aside some of the people who are frequently late and say "you got 3 more chances to be punctual or you're out of a job."

[VPI97]

I'm leinent with my guys in terms of hours...if there's something really abnormal (won't be in until 11:00/need to leave a few hours early) I expect them to say something...and they do. On the flip side, I also expect them to be able to put in night/weekend hours if I need them to do so. All that matters is getting work done.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

From my experience in 4 different IT shops, if the group is strict about time in/out, they usually have high turnover and aren't that productive. Conversely, the IT shops with flexibility tend to be more productive with less turnover and people are also more willing to help out with extra duties when needed.

I agree with this completely.

At my last job my hours were flexible, I was able to work from home once or twice a week whenever I felt like it, I generally came in at 10am and left at 5pm, as did the other technical resource. It was very obvious we were both putting in over 50 hours a week whenever it was needed, willing to stay late and willing to do anything to meet deadlines. Honestly, I expect to be asked to work late, and to work tons of hours to meet deadlines, and I expect just as much to have complete flexibility as a result.


A few months before I quit that job, a new technical director was hired. He asked me what I wanted my hours to be. I said that if I am required to have hours I'll take 10-7. He said he was fine with that. One day that week he came into my office and said "I noticed you got here at 10:03 today" and my jaw hit the floor. The next week he said "I don't like 10-7. I need you here when I get here at 8:30. your new hours are 8:30-5:30." I didn't do a single minute of work at home again, and I left the second the clock hit 5:30, and turned in my notice after about 2 months. This wasn't the only reason, but it's in the top 3. I've had a lot of managers at 4 different software companies now. This was the only one I ever had serious conflicts with.

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

From my experience in 4 different IT shops, if the group is strict about time in/out, they usually have high turnover and aren't that productive. Conversely, the IT shops with flexibility tend to be more productive with less turnover and people are also more willing to help out with extra duties when needed.

Absolutely agree with you. Where I work now (software), work hours are extremely flexible and morale is the highest I've ever seen it anywhere that I've worked in the past. Not a whole lot of turnover either.

[Alan T]

Since I do network engineering, alot of the work I do has to be done at 9pm of the time zone the work is done in (regardless if it is USA, Australia, India, or somewhere in Europe). That leads me to working all various kinds of hours. The way it is handled is, I schedule my own work to be done at a time that fits our change window and is convienant for me (as long as I meet the expected scheduled date for implementation)..

In return, I work from home 2-4 days a week, often sleep in till 7:30 or 8, roll out of bed and just start working in my shorts and t-shirt. I don't have a timeclock, or anyone checking to see when I started or stopped working as long as I get my workload done.

The only huge issue that my management ever has is they hate not being able to reach someone in case of an emergency. So keeping my phone/pager available most of the time pretty much allows me to work whenever I want. If I'm going on vacation, obviously that is not required.

[Coffee Warlord]

Hey original poster, if you're based in Chicago and want someone who knows how to handle IT folks, I'm still poking around for a new job.

[Daimyo]

My group of 11 is responsible for servers and infrastructure as well as identity management and enterprise security. We have operational commitments, but its largely project work for most of the team.

My philosophy is that you have to be on time for all meetings and meet all commitments you make, but other than that who cares if you're here at 9am or 9:15am or leave early every now and then as long as you get your work done? I'm also very generous on comp time for when work is needed after hours and on the weekends.

I'm pretty sure if you add up all the time people spend at work and doing off-hours research and learning we'd all be putting in well over 40 hours/week and so being strict on when people need to be in the office would end up being counterproductive. Besides from my experience if you treat people with respect in this area they're much more responsive when you do need them to work long hours because they trust there must be a good reason for it.

Things are different in help desk situations or consulting...

[johnnyshaka]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

Do you think companies, in general, work better with a more laid-back policy (provided you get the work done)?

I would say yes with a capital "Y"!!!

I'm more of a behind the scenes guy and don't deal with "front line" stuff anymore so everything I need to do for my job can be done from anywhere I have internet access. So, you would think attendance at the office would be a little less important.

Well, that use to be the case. I use to have a boss who didn't enforce "face time" whatsoever and I can assure you that he got more work out of me than I will ever know.

That boss left before Christmas and my new boss wants me in the office from 8:30 to 4:30, 5 days a week. Fair enough...I'm there during those hours but you can bet that I'm far more familiar with the latest goings on in the sports world than I am with the IT world nowadays. I no longer care who I'm putting out when I have to take servers/network down to do maintenance and I no longer lose sleep when I get a message about the mail server acting up after hours...I'll get to it at 8:30 am the next day. I also haven't bothered to install our VPN client on my laptop since rebuilding it in January.

[secretCIO]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

What was the feedback you received?

I didn't want to skew the responses by giving any information one way or another. Although, now I've seen that I've gotten a pretty good consensus of opinion here from a bunch of IT folk who are in environments that allow them to spend hours at a time logged into an internet user group. --- That isn't exactly the most independent sample I could have gone for in seeking input, but I wanted to confirm my suspicion.

In essence, the feedback I've received is that I allow my management team to run too loose of an environment. I'm firmly in the 'evaluate performance based on productivity and the quality of the work product' camp. I report up to the COO who is a believer that attendance is indicative of character, and thus can be the single determining factor in evaluating performance. She has no IT background, but is quite capable, an excellent leader, and a good executive. This is an issue where we now have a pretty direct conflict. She wants me to treat IT professionals in the same manner that her other reports treat call center agents. I'm refusing. It's a problem.


At this time most of my staff arrives at the office before 9AM. The teams that provide direct support to other staff, have stricter time requirements than developers and administrators. In other words, I define the requirement to be at a desk and ready to start at 8AM based on an employees role. More accurately I hold management accountable to make sure their departments are functional and capable of supporting the needs of the business between 8 to 5.

Factors of my position
-employee morale
-employee retention
-not all roles are equal, nor do they require equal treatment.
-attendance is a minor component of the measurement of an employee's performance.

Some of the other factors that I'm aware of.
-Individuals that abuse the system, need to be dealt with or there will be a negative affect on morale.
-Employees that do value attendance as highly as my COO, and that take pride in their attendance will feel disadvantaged in this system even if others aren't outright abusing the privilege.
-My Boss believes strongly in her position.

[Galaxy]

Could you provide a more flexible schedule to sales managers (thought you could say they work out in the field) and such?

[johnnyshaka]

Originally Posted by secretCIO

I didn't want to skew the responses by giving any information one way or another. Although, now I've seen that I've gotten a pretty good consensus of opinion here from a bunch of IT folk who are in environments that allow them to spend hours at a time logged into an internet user group. --- That isn't exactly the most independent sample I could have gone for in seeking input, but I wanted to confirm my suspicion.

In essence, the feedback I've received is that I allow my management team to run too loose of an environment. I'm firmly in the 'evaluate performance based on productivity and the quality of the work product' camp. I report up to the COO who is a believer that attendance is indicative of character, and thus can be the single determining factor in evaluating performance. She has no IT background, but is quite capable, an excellent leader, and a good executive. This is an issue where we now have a pretty direct conflict. She wants me to treat IT professionals in the same manner that her other reports treat call center agents. I'm refusing. It's a problem.


At this time most of my staff arrives at the office before 9AM. The teams that provide direct support to other staff, have stricter time requirements than developers and administrators. In other words, I define the requirement to be at a desk and ready to start at 8AM based on an employees role. More accurately I hold management accountable to make sure their departments are functional and capable of supporting the needs of the business between 8 to 5.

Factors of my position
-employee morale
-employee retention
-not all roles are equal, nor do they require equal treatment.
-attendance is a minor component of the measurement of an employee's performance.

Some of the other factors that I'm aware of.
-Individuals that abuse the system, need to be dealt with or there will be a negative affect on morale.
-Employees that do value attendance as highly as my COO, and that take pride in their attendance will feel disadvantaged in this system even if others aren't outright abusing the privilege.
-My Boss believes strongly in her position.

Your boss sounds an awful lot like my new boss...no IT background and wants to run the department like a grade 3 classroom...you'll be in your desks by 8:30...recess at 10:30...lunch at noon...recess at 3:00...hometime at 4:30. If you chew gum in class you'll be held for detention and no bathroom breaks allowed...that's what recess is for.

Anyways, as a result, our department's morale is at an all-time low (I've been here nearly 7 years and only one other employee has been there longer...an extra year...and except for the first year when we essentially had no boss, I have loved my job) and many of us have our ears and eyes open for other opportunities.

By the sounds of it, you are trying to fight your boss' need for you to micromanage your staff and that is something I'm not getting from my immediate manager. As a result, our entire department has lost any respect for him and his superiors. They have really torn apart a department that used to be a fun place to work but also used to run like a well oiled machine.

[Desnudo]

Your COO sounds old school and pretty inflexible in her beliefs. You will struggle with retention and hiring younger talent as long as she sticks that core belief, which doesn't reflect performance at all in this day and age. It mattered when everyone had a desktop or a typewriter.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

Your boss sounds an awful lot like my new boss...no IT background and wants to run the department like a grade 3 classroom...you'll be in your desks by 8:30...recess at 10:30...lunch at noon...recess at 3:00...hometime at 4:30. If you chew gum in class you'll be held for detention and no bathroom breaks allowed...that's what recess is for.

Anyways, as a result, our department's morale is at an all-time low (I've been here nearly 7 years and only one other employee has been there longer...an extra year...and except for the first year when we essentially had no boss, I have loved my job) and many of us have our ears and eyes open for other opportunities.

By the sounds of it, you are trying to fight your boss' need for you to micromanage your staff and that is something I'm not getting from my immediate manager. As a result, our entire department has lost any respect for him and his superiors. They have really torn apart a department that used to be a fun place to work but also used to run like a well oiled machine.

Funny you mention that because I'm part of a group trying to figure out how to make a Grade 3 classroom LESS like that.

As a teacher I have obvious face time requirements, but beyond that if I want to leave 2:50, when classes are done, my boss has no problems, because she knows that I'm here very early in the morning. She also has no problems with the teachers who get here at 7:55, kids get here at 8:00, cause those teachers are often here until 4 or later. I love being treated like a professional, despite being in a profession which certainly demands active presence during given times.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

Your COO sounds old school and pretty inflexible in her beliefs. You will struggle with retention and hiring younger talent as long as she sticks that core belief, which doesn't reflect performance at all in this day and age. It mattered when everyone had a desktop or a typewriter.

As a current manager, I'd echo the above comments. It's awfully easy to hire really good and motivated workers to join a flexible work group. It's next to impossible to get the best talent if the working time rules are strict. In our group, we're very flexible in that you can come in as early as 6:00 AM and can stay as late as 6:00 PM every day. As long as you put in your 40 hours, we'll work with you on any schedule adjustments. Only thing that we do is try to balance the schedules so we don't have everyone working late or everyone working early, which creates an unbalanced coverage issue.

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

Your boss sounds an awful lot like my new boss...no IT background and wants to run the department like a grade 3 classroom...you'll be in your desks by 8:30...recess at 10:30...lunch at noon...recess at 3:00...hometime at 4:30.

Anyways, as a result, our department's morale is at an all-time low...

I tell you what. If I had an 8:30 - 4:30 workday, my morale would be sky-high! And how much time do you guys get for lunch? 30 minutes or an hour? That sounds like a pretty sweet gig.

The regular employees are expected to work 50 hours a week. Managers are expected to work 60.

[Fidatelo]

KWhit your job sucks. I will often put in close to 50 hours a week, but the first time it becomes "expected", without OT, is the minute I start making calls to other employers.

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

KWhit your job sucks.

True dat.

[MO542]

Originally Posted by secretCIO

I didn't want to skew the responses by giving any information one way or another. Although, now I've seen that I've gotten a pretty good consensus of opinion here from a bunch of IT folk who are in environments that allow them to spend hours at a time logged into an internet user group. --- That isn't exactly the most independent sample I could have gone for in seeking input, but I wanted to confirm my suspicion.

In essence, the feedback I've received is that I allow my management team to run too loose of an environment. I'm firmly in the 'evaluate performance based on productivity and the quality of the work product' camp. I report up to the COO who is a believer that attendance is indicative of character, and thus can be the single determining factor in evaluating performance. She has no IT background, but is quite capable, an excellent leader, and a good executive. This is an issue where we now have a pretty direct conflict. She wants me to treat IT professionals in the same manner that her other reports treat call center agents. I'm refusing. It's a problem.


At this time most of my staff arrives at the office before 9AM. The teams that provide direct support to other staff, have stricter time requirements than developers and administrators. In other words, I define the requirement to be at a desk and ready to start at 8AM based on an employees role. More accurately I hold management accountable to make sure their departments are functional and capable of supporting the needs of the business between 8 to 5.

Factors of my position
-employee morale
-employee retention
-not all roles are equal, nor do they require equal treatment.
-attendance is a minor component of the measurement of an employee's performance.

Some of the other factors that I'm aware of.
-Individuals that abuse the system, need to be dealt with or there will be a negative affect on morale.
-Employees that do value attendance as highly as my COO, and that take pride in their attendance will feel disadvantaged in this system even if others aren't outright abusing the privilege.
-My Boss believes strongly in her position.

I’m in IT management and I’ll give you my input.

I believe, like most posters here, that you treat employees like professionals and expect professional work in return. If somebody on my team needs to have flexibility, then I give it to them and, usually, they show appreciation by going the extra miles when needed. Flexibility is a major factor in employee moral and retention.

I believe that managers should have the freedom to manage with their chosen style. If a group is meeting deadlines, has good moral, and is adding value to a firm, why does the management style matter? If your COO has expectations on how your department should be managed, then why didn’t she hire somebody with that style? You need to come to some kind of compromise. I would start with discussing her expectations of the department. She may feel that it should be managed in a certain manner, but I would make a proposal stating that you will enforce her management style if your department does not meet her expectations. The bottom line is that she has to give you the freedom to operate the department the way you see fit. If she cannot do that, then I have doubts the situation will work. Good luck.

“The best executive is the one who has sense enough to pick good men to do what he wants done, and self-restraint enough to keep from meddling with them while they do it.”
-Theodore Roosevelt

Just my $0.02

[johnnyshaka]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Funny you mention that because I'm part of a group trying to figure out how to make a Grade 3 classroom LESS like that.

As a teacher I have obvious face time requirements, but beyond that if I want to leave 2:50, when classes are done, my boss has no problems, because she knows that I'm here very early in the morning. She also has no problems with the teachers who get here at 7:55, kids get here at 8:00, cause those teachers are often here until 4 or later. I love being treated like a professional, despite being in a profession which certainly demands active presence during given times.

Even funnier, I work as a sys admin for a school district...one that now seems to think their IT Dept has 8 year olds for employees. Awesome.