Idea: Vulture League

[Young Drachma]

So...I was kicking around an idea.

What if we had a 4-8 team Vulture League that only say, had younger players under a certain age (capped at age 25, maybe) and with a low salary cap and in such a manner that wouldn't allow them to sign any of our stars.

The reason?

Well, if we need new people, it'd be nice to know who we have already. If we're ever going to expand, we should know the people we've got before we go adding teams for them and having them leave or something.

Plus, I could see a scenario where we could have working agreements with VL teams for player loans and such alike, to see how a player would play in what amounts to AAAA.

Plus, it'd get people used to dealing with FOOL and its quirks. We'd keep that league even more low-key than FOOL, because it's not like I want more work to do. But...I dunno, it's an idea I was kicking around and wanted to see what the board of trustees thought.

So let's hear it.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

So...I was kicking around an idea.

What if we had a 4-8 team Vulture League that only say, had younger players under a certain age (capped at age 25, maybe) and with a low salary cap and in such a manner that wouldn't allow them to sign any of our stars.

The reason?

Well, if we need new people, it'd be nice to know who we have already. If we're ever going to expand, we should know the people we've got before we go adding teams for them and having them leave or something.

Plus, I could see a scenario where we could have working agreements with VL teams for player loans and such alike, to see how a player would play in what amounts to AAAA.

Plus, it'd get people used to dealing with FOOL and its quirks. We'd keep that league even more low-key than FOOL, because it's not like I want more work to do. But...I dunno, it's an idea I was kicking around and wanted to see what the board of trustees thought.

So let's hear it.

Huh...initial impression is that I like it, good out of the box thinking that presents us with another twist to the league experience.

But that's going to be one we have to tread carefully, as I think without being certain about the rules (especially with what is available to such a league), there is a lot of room for error and issues there.

But if we can make it work (and have some owners who want to try it), I like it.

[Young Drachma]

Good point. We'd have to define the rules out of the box. I don't want them really getting "in the way" of FOOL, as much as I'd like them to really be able to "experience" FOOL, is all. Sorta like associate membership. Maybe just prevent them from signing FOOL players at all and just leave them with young players, that way, they're invested in our success and we're obviously keeping on eye on them and their league. A person who builds a good team down there is gonna be someone we'll know well when it comes time to promote/expand, etc.

[gstelmack]

My big concern would be them locking up the good young talent, but it's a perfect place for all those 27-year-old 1-* guys I've got clogging my minors right now...

[muns]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

Good point. We'd have to define the rules out of the box. I don't want them really getting "in the way" of FOOL, as much as I'd like them to really be able to "experience" FOOL, is all. Sorta like associate membership. Maybe just prevent them from signing FOOL players at all and just leave them with young players, that way, they're invested in our success and we're obviously keeping on eye on them and their league. A person who builds a good team down there is gonna be someone we'll know well when it comes time to promote/expand, etc.

I like the Idea DC. You just keep coming up with stuff that adds some more flavor. I agree with Chief with the rules though, and as gstelmack just pointed out with the contracts, them holding onto players would be something that would need to be defined. Just another fun thing for me to look at when im bored at work.

[Young Drachma]

I think we'd set it like an independent league. So the rules would prevent players from over 25 or something from being there. Or maybe we should just make it the "old timers" league and have them only managing 1-star players or something and then we can loan them youngsters that we want to get playing time against star players.

That's not a bad idea, now that I think of it.

Hmm...let's keep brainstorming. This wouldn't happen until next offseason at the earliest.

[muns]

While I wouldnt mind either, I think id prefer them to go with the under 25 guys for a few reasons.

1. Wouldnt be a whole lot of fun for them managing guys that wont develop anymore ( IE castoffs)
2. We more than likely wont want (older guys as we do have our own farm systems) so we would call our own guys up instead of trying to get one of the vulture league players.
3. The young 1 star prospects still have a chance to boom and become half decent players especially with the playing time they would get here.

[Alan T]

If they go for under 25 guys and we go for under 25 guys, how would that all work out together? Wouldn't that cause even more demand for the same players we can't get already due to competition?

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Alan T

If they go for under 25 guys and we go for under 25 guys, how would that all work out together? Wouldn't that cause even more demand for the same players we can't get already due to competition?

I thinking 1) scrap the feeders and 2) have just younger players (18-20) being generated by that league annually and who become free agents every 2-3 years. Effectively no more feeders and the Vulture League is our feeder league. Gives them a definitive place in the game, without making them become distracting.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

I thinking 1) scrap the feeders and 2) have just younger players (18-20) being generated by that league annually and who become free agents every 2-3 years. Effectively no more feeders and the Vulture League is our feeder league. Gives them a definitive place in the game, without making them become distracting.

I'm ok with this as long as it doesn't effect our ability to get younger players ages 19-24 range.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I'm ok with this as long as it doesn't effect our ability to get younger players ages 19-24 range.

The game will still generate them. They'd have a pool of their own players. Like the Dominican or something.

[gstelmack]

Actually, the international aspect is intriguing. Make them a Japan league or Dominican league or Central American league, and they get all players from that country / area, and some get good enough to get FA contracts from us. Interesting...

[JeeberD]

Would it be possible for them to run some of the HS/college teams?

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by JeeberD

Would it be possible for them to run some of the HS/college teams?

Not in their current form. They'd only be able to be managers. If we did say, the foreign baseball academy thing, they could GM them, yes. But those players would enter our league as free agents, not draftees.

Which I'd be fine with...because I suspect if they say, play 3 years in a foreign league and leave that league at 20 or 21, star players would no longer sign for minor league contracts.

[fairly]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

... and some get good enough to get FA contracts from us. Interesting...

As someone who expressed interest in the league and one who might end up with a vulture team, I would object strongly to seeing players I developed used against me, should I get a 'real' team. I'd want to keep such stars for myself to import into my own 'real' team should I be eligible for one.

[Young Drachma]

Thanks for posting, fairly. That's an interesting concept and one that would make sense to me. I do think the players should be able to be "promoted, etc." because we'd need to cultivate a purpose for the vulture league and our purpose for it, would be player development -- probably foreign players -- rather than domestic.

But that being said, I could totally see a scenario in which a "promoted" owner, could say, take an allocation of players with him/her to their new team as an incentive for participating in the VL.

Hmm...I like how this is evolving.

Let's keep chatting about it.

[Commo_Soldier]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

Thanks for posting, fairly. That's an interesting concept and one that would make sense to me. I do think the players should be able to be "promoted, etc." because we'd need to cultivate a purpose for the vulture league and our purpose for it, would be player development -- probably foreign players -- rather than domestic.

But that being said, I could totally see a scenario in which a "promoted" owner, could say, take an allocation of players with him/her to their new team as an incentive for participating in the VL.

Hmm...I like how this is evolving.

Let's keep chatting about it.

I am not really for this idea unless all the players will be scrubs. Reason being that this will give them an unfair advantage when it is time for them to recieve a team. They already will take over a team with a roster of players and now they will be able to add players that no one else even gets a shot at? It would be one thing if they took over an expansion team or the players they want to bring to their team then get dropped into free agency, but I do not like the idea of just letting them have the players since none of the other owners have a team they can just pick players they want from.

[gstelmack]

I agree. Vulturing should be separate from having an ML team. You might decide to go harder after those guys, but you shouldn't be able to bring your team with you. Unless we're going to do a relegation thing where your whole team comes up (warts and all) and the team you are replacing moves on down.

[Young Drachma]

I didn't mean a whole team. I meant a few players. Mostly as an incentive for people to consider doing it. Not an entire team though.

And there would be rules about that too. (Chances are, they'd have to be younger, unrealized prospects, etc.)

I mean, there is no shame in say, being a juggernaut developer of talent in the VL either. They still get to say they're in the Front Office Offseason League, just they'll win VL pennants, not FOOL Classics.

[muns]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

I didn't mean a whole team. I meant a few players. Mostly as an incentive for people to consider doing it. Not an entire team though.

And there would be rules about that too. (Chances are, they'd have to be younger, unrealized prospects, etc.)

I mean, there is no shame in say, being a juggernaut developer of talent in the VL either. They still get to say they're in the Front Office Offseason League, just they'll win VL pennants, not FOOL Classics.

I wouldnt mind a few guys that arent the main guys i guess.... I understand what Fairly is saying here, but the purposes of being a vulture guy isnt to stay a vulture guy, nor keep your "own" players. Its to get a "FOOL" franchise. If thats what you have to do to get a "FOOL" franchise then that should be that IMO.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by muns

I wouldnt mind a few guys that arent the main guys i guess.... I understand what Fairly is saying here, but the purposes of being a vulture guy isnt to stay a vulture guy, nor keep your "own" players. Its to get a "FOOL" franchise. If thats what you have to do to get a "FOOL" franchise then that should be that IMO.

I can imagine an ad..."Are you FOOL enough?!"

Good convo, guys.

[Young Drachma]

Ok, a few new questions:

1. How many teams?
2. How long should the season be?
3. So have we decided that it'll be a foreign development league? I think we have...or at least, US-based teams and foreign players almost entirely.

What else?

[muns]

Your good with the feeder stuff, how many teams did it take to sustain a league in your SP DC?

2. my first thought would be what colleges play but if its a full foreign league it should prob be more im guessing?

3. My vote would be for a foreign development league.

I guess what we really need to hammer down would be the rules concerning the players, but we cant do that till we get the base down huh?

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by muns

Your good with the feeder stuff, how many teams did it take to sustain a league in your SP DC?

2. my first thought would be what colleges play but if its a full foreign league it should prob be more im guessing?

3. My vote would be for a foreign development league.

I guess what we really need to hammer down would be the rules concerning the players, but we cant do that till we get the base down huh?

With OOTP9, we can name them whatever we want. We can make it a "college" league, but it can have contracts and the like, that's no problem.

I'd say the league should have between 4-8 teams. Probably 8 teams and then just let the AI run whatever teams the vultures don't, that way, when we have no vultures, we can still have the league.

I'm actually thinking about deleting the feeders right now and setting up the VL now and then just letting it be an AI league for the first year, just to see how it works. I think it'll work A LOT better than the feeders have for us.

[muns]

I was thinking 6-10, so 8 works for me....... im leaving work here in a few, will fool around with foreign leagues for fun for a bit when i get home.

[muns]

80-90 games?

[Young Drachma]

I've deleted the feeders for good. We'll try to give this Vulture thing a go this year. Gonna flesh it out when I get home for real, but it'll be AI driven for year one and the players will have real contracts and will be foreign.

[Young Drachma]

Vulture League information

VL salaries are intentionally high in the settings. Not initially, since they'll all be on minimum contracts. But players can be free agents just two years after they sign their MLC deal.

That way, players there do not want to stay, but leave to get more money. After all, it's meant to be a pipeline for us.

- VL uses the DH (more players get to play, meaning another player we get to evaluate as a hitter)
- Salary cap is $10 million
- Media contract is $1.25 million
- Average attendance is 13000
- 100-game season
- Two divisions of four teams each.
- Winners of the two divisions play in a one-game, winner-take-all championship called The Big Game
- Age limits in the VL are 18-28. This ensures that even if a VL team does manage to hold onto a prospect into their 20s, that by the time they're 29, they'll be joining us. Sorta like Japan IRL. But I don't see this happening a lot. Just trying to be prepared for it.
- All teams play games at Vulture Park in Tokyo. A default ballpark factor park.

I've named the teams in that league after real life major league franchises. In part because it's 1) easier for me and 2) I don't have to make new logos.

I don't really want people coming in and changing the name of their VL team. We can make exceptions tho, it's not like we HAVE to have people playing in the VL, after all.

Just sayin'....