Armchair Referees: You Make the Call!

[Poli]

Steelers have the ball, 1st and 10 on their 40 yard line. Steelers snap the ball but are flagged for an illegal procedure as the play begins. The Volunteers intercept the pass at the 40 yard line and returns the interception for a touchdown. During the return a Volunteer is flagged for a block in the back at the Steeler 20 yard line.

Where do you spot the ball?

[cartman]

Since there was a turnover, original illegal procedure call is ignored. The block in the back penalty is assessed from the Steeler's 20 yard line.

[JetsIn06]

Offsetting penalties, replay the down, ball is on the 40.

[Tasan]

The ball should be at the 30 yard line with the Volunteers having the ball. The illegal block occurred after the change of possession, so it doesn't have any bearing on who has the ball. The illegal procedure penalty is ignored. Something tells me though that some ref got it wrong and did what cartman said.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Tasan

The ball should be at the 30 yard line with the Volunteers having the ball. The illegal block occurred after the change of possession, so it doesn't have any bearing on who has the ball. The illegal procedure penalty is ignored. Something tells me though that some ref got it wrong and did what cartman said.

I didn't say the turnover got reversed. Instead of a touchdown, the intercepting team kept possession, with the penalty enforced from the spot of the foul.

[Masked]

Isn't the play dead as soon as there is an illegal procedure penalty (which is by definition, before the snap). Therefore, Steelers keep the ball at their 35 yard line, replay 1st down (now 1st and 15).

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Masked

Isn't the play dead as soon as there is an illegal procedure penalty (which is by definition, before the snap). Therefore, Steelers keep the ball at their 35 yard line, replay 1st down (now 1st and 15).

Not necessarily. Illegal procedure could be two people in motion at the time of the snap.

[Masked]

Originally Posted by cartman

Not necessarily. Illegal procedure could be two people in motion at the time of the snap.

Yeah, I was thinking of only the one case.

[saldana]

Originally Posted by Masked

Isn't the play dead as soon as there is an illegal procedure penalty (which is by definition, before the snap). Therefore, Steelers keep the ball at their 35 yard line, replay 1st down (now 1st and 15).

this is my call as well.

[BrianD]

I don't think Illegal Procedure can happen before the start of the play. If the initial description is accurate, the penalty happened at the start of the play, so it isn't a dead ball foul. Since the defensive penalty happened after the turnover, they gained possession with "clean hands". This means the initial penalty will be declined. The block in the back penalty will be enforced at the spot of the foul. 1st and 10 from the 30 for the intercepting team.

[Tasan]

Originally Posted by cartman

I didn't say the turnover got reversed. Instead of a touchdown, the intercepting team kept possession, with the penalty enforced from the spot of the foul.

My bad, I read that wrong. Sorry.

[Tasan]

Originally Posted by BrianD

I don't think Illegal Procedure can happen before the start of the play. If the initial description is accurate, the penalty happened at the start of the play, so it isn't a dead ball foul. Since the defensive penalty happened after the turnover, they gained possession with "clean hands". This means the initial penalty will be declined. The block in the back penalty will be enforced at the spot of the foul. 1st and 10 from the 30 for the intercepting team.

Great explanation. I believe this is the correct call.

[Dr. Sak]

Originally Posted by BrianD

I don't think Illegal Procedure can happen before the start of the play. If the initial description is accurate, the penalty happened at the start of the play, so it isn't a dead ball foul. Since the defensive penalty happened after the turnover, they gained possession with "clean hands". This means the initial penalty will be declined. The block in the back penalty will be enforced at the spot of the foul. 1st and 10 from the 30 for the intercepting team.

B will decline the illegal procedure (probably not enough guys on the LOS) and the ball should be 1st and 10 from the 30 like Brian D says.

[EagleFan]

It's soooo obvious....

1st and goal Steelers at the 5....

[TroyF]

I don't think it'd be illegal procedure, that's a dead ball, play stops. illegal motion (one man moving toward line, different signal) or Illegal shift or not enough men on the line (same signal, but different wording on the penalty) are all calls that would keep the play alive.

Assuming it was one of the last three (and considering the play continued, I'm assuming this), the second foul occured after change of possession. Steelers ball on the 30. (like others have said first)

[Poli]

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak

B will decline the illegal procedure (probably not enough guys on the LOS) and the ball should be 1st and 10 from the 30 like Brian D says.

That's the way I saw it as well.

Instead, this great referee marks off 5 yards from the original line of scrimmage and then awards us (the Volunteers) the ball at the Steeler 45.

[Dr. Sak]

Originally Posted by Poli

That's the way I saw it as well.

Instead, this great referee marks off 5 yards from the original line of scrimmage and then awards us (the Volunteers) the ball at the Steeler 45.

No offense to that referee...but that is why he is doing that kind of ball and not anything higher.

[Poli]

He's actually a high school referee.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Poli

That's the way I saw it as well.

Instead, this great referee marks off 5 yards from the original line of scrimmage and then awards us (the Volunteers) the ball at the Steeler 45.

Was it because of not enough guys on the LOS? If so, that shouldn't kill the play. On a false start, the penalty happens when the guy moves which is why you blow the play dead. The actual infraction happens before the snap (even if the snap happens before the ref can blow the whistle). Not having enough guys on the LOS isn't a penalty unless a snap happens with that condition. Since the penalty happens at the time of the snap, the play is allowed to continue.

[Poli]

The completely weird parts were having the penalty marched off 5 yards toward us and then awarding us the football. I have no clue what this guys was doing.