Dallas washes hands of Avery

[AgustusM]

ESPN - Dallas Stars: Suspended Sean Avery won't return to team

What am I missing about this story? He said "sloppy seconds" and people are losing their minds!?!?!. I don't get it. Every team I have ever been around has a hundred things more vulgar than that said very day. Albeit not normally in an interview, but still.

Can someone enlighten me on why this is such a big deal?

[Lathum]

I don't get it either.

[Logan]

Read the NHL thread.

[samifan24]

Originally Posted by AgustusM

Can someone enlighten me on why this is such a big deal?

Quite a few of us had the same reaction over in the NHL thread.

[Lathum]

would he have any sort of wrongfull termination case?

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Logan

Read the NHL thread.

I have read the NHL thread, too, and I also agree this is much ado about nothing. So Avery's an ass. Whatever. If the Stars want to cut him because his presence is more of a distraction than his performance is worth, fine by them. But, IMO, this isn't half the big deal it becomes if everyone didn't go way overboard over-reacting about it.

There are complete jerks in every sport, but no law here was broken. I don't know why we should draw the "jerk line" at Avery.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I have read the NHL thread, too, and I also agree this is much ado about nothing. So Avery's an ass. Whatever. If the Stars want to cut him because his presence is more of a distraction than his performance is worth, fine by them. But, IMO, this isn't half the big deal it becomes if everyone didn't go way overboard over-reacting about it.

There are complete jerks in every sport, but no law here was broken. I don't know why we should draw the "jerk line" at Avery.

Ya, I just read some of the last few pages there and it was a debate on whether Avery's antics are good for the league. Which kind of misses the point, IMO.

We've finally reached the point where a league suspends a guy just for being a jerk. When will it end? Pretty soon players are going to have dress codes when they're not playing....oh wait.

If Larry Bird played today, he'd be considered the biggest jerk in sports, and he might just be suspended. Back then, we found his arrogance fun and almost charming (or if you were on the other side, he pissed you off, but it made it more fun to beat him).

Sports are far less interesting they used to be.....It's like we're trying to beat every last bit of non-conformance and individuality from athletes. These guys used to be larger than life, like rock stars. Now when they say naughty words, they're scorned (or suspended)

When a football player hands the ball to the referee after a TD, he's praised. And some people prefer that approach, and that's fine. But the only reason such an approach is praise-worthy is because it's his CHOICE. In a world of celebrations, Barry Sanders comes off very classy. If everyone is required to do it by rule...Sanders' class isn't a big deal anymore.

[bhlloy]

The fact that Avery doesn't have a job this morning and Brett Hull still does is the ultimate head-scratcher to me. The sooner the Stars realise that Hull is the real cancer on their team, the sooner they will be back to being a relevant hockey franchise.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by molson

Ya, I just read some of the last few pages there and it was a debate on whether Avery's antics are good for the league. Which kind of misses the point, IMO.

We've finally reached the point where a league suspends a guy just for being a jerk. When will it end? Pretty soon players are going to have dress codes when they're not playing....oh wait.

If Larry Bird played today, he'd be considered the biggest jerk in sports, and he might just be suspended. Back then, we found his arrogance fun and almost charming (or if you were on the other side, he pissed you off, but it made it more fun to beat him).

Sports are far less interesting they used to be.....It's like we're trying to beat every last bit of non-conformance and individuality from athletes. These guys used to be larger than life, like rock stars. Now when they say naughty words, they're scorned.

When a football player hands the ball to the referee after a TD, he's praised. And some people prefer that approach, and that's fine. But the only reason such an approach is praise-worthy is because it's his CHOICE. In a world of celebrations, Barry Sanders comes off very classy. If everyone is required to do it by rule...Sanders' class isn't a big deal anymore.

Before the "is he good for the league?" debate in that thread, I think those who understood the Avery suspension were in agreement: you can't have a player publicly ridicule another player's wife/girlfriend/family. In what world is that okay? Yes it was a funny comment (and I love Avery) but if you remove that part of it, it's clearly overstepping boundaries and I really can't see how anybody could not have a problem with it.

Originally Posted by AgustusM

Albeit not normally in an interview, but still.

That's the whole point. I'm sure Larry Bird was a jerk but I didn't hear him rip on Isiah Thomas' kids.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I have read the NHL thread, too, and I also agree this is much ado about nothing. So Avery's an ass. Whatever. If the Stars want to cut him because his presence is more of a distraction than his performance is worth, fine by them. But, IMO, this isn't half the big deal it becomes if everyone didn't go way overboard over-reacting about it.

There are complete jerks in every sport, but no law here was broken. I don't know why we should draw the "jerk line" at Avery.

Is there a case to be made about a slippery slope here. What if he had said something about a player's wife that he had slept with in the past as opposed a girlfriend? And what if he had made fun of their inability to have kids or a recent death in the family or a handicapped child or anything?

I don't see what the big deal is about these comments either. But I can understand why the league would want to nip this in the bud before someone decides to take this just a little further.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Logan

That's the whole point. I'm sure Larry Bird was a jerk but I didn't hear him rip on Isiah Thomas' kids.

I'm not aware of Avery ripping on anyone's kids. (I don't know the whole Avery saga)

But I'm sure it's not the first time a hockey player insulted another player's wife or girlfriend.

I guess it's more offensive that he says it to a microphone, off the ice, but I'm guessing years ago newspapers just wouldn't print that stuff. Because its offensive.

[Logan]

He didn't say anything about anyone's kids...but what is allowed to be publicly said about another player's personal life and what isn't? He called a guy's girlfriend a whore and I think if she wasn't famous, people would care more.

Do you guys really not understand that Avery saying this in public to a group of reporters is the ENTIRE issue?

[molson]

Originally Posted by Logan

He didn't say anything about anyone's kids...but what is allowed to be publicly said about another player's personal life and what isn't? He called a guy's girlfriend a whore and I think if she wasn't famous, people would care more.

Do you guys really not understand that Avery saying this in public to a group of reporters is the ENTIRE issue?

So let people hate him and let him be a jerk. It's not that I don't have a problem with what he said. It was clearly wrong and he's clearly a jerk.

I just find a suspension for mere words pretty lame.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Logan

Before the "is he good for the league?" debate in that thread, I think those who understood the Avery suspension were in agreement: you can't have a player publicly ridicule another player's wife/girlfriend/family. In what world is that okay? Yes it was a funny comment (and I love Avery) but if you remove that part of it, it's clearly overstepping boundaries and I really can't see how anybody could not have a problem with it.

I think he overstepped his bounds a little, but fact is, it wasn't another player's wife or kids or parents or sick dog or what not. It was just ex-girlfriends, and public figures themselves, to boot. Could I see him being suspended for a game or two, yes. Six? Really, really overboard. Not letting him back on the top. Congrats, Stars, you have now reached sublime territory with respect to overreaction.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Logan

He didn't say anything about anyone's kids...but what is allowed to be publicly said about another player's personal life and what isn't? He called a guy's girlfriend a whore and I think if she wasn't famous, people would care more.

Do you guys really not understand that Avery saying this in public to a group of reporters is the ENTIRE issue?

No, he basically said "I had her first". He didn't call her whore. Nice complete make up statement you have there to try to make your point.

And nice how you basically question our intelligence for not agreeing with you. No, wait, I guess I just don't understand.

[Logan]

Let's not go crazy either...if Avery was leading the team in goals and was loved by everyone in the locker room, he'd be back.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

No, he basically said "I had her first". He didn't call her whore. Nice complete make up statement you have there to try to make your point.

From ESPN:

"I'm really happy to be back in Calgary; I love Canada," the Ontario native said. "I just want to comment on how it's become like a common thing in the NHL for guys to fall in love with my sloppy seconds. I don't know what that's about, but enjoy the game tonight." He then walked out of the locker room.

Avery's ex-girlfriend, actress Elisha Cuthbert of the television show "24" and the movie "Old School," is dating Calgary defenseman Dion Phaneuf; she had been romantically linked to Mike Komisarek of the Montreal Canadiens. Avery also dated Rachel Hunter, the former Sports Illustrated swimsuit cover model and actress who is now the girlfriend of Los Angeles Kings center Jarret Stoll.

Care to take that back? Sorry, I should've said "he called them whores for running through hockey players."

And nice how you basically question our intelligence for not agreeing with you. No, wait, I guess I just don't understand.

What's with being a dick man? My point was that a few people in here said things along the lines of "Yeah, he shouldn't have said it to a microphone, but...". That "but" is the point. If he says it for 60 minutes on the ice no one would give a shit.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Logan

From ESPN:



Care to take that back? Sorry, I should've said "he called them whores for running through hockey players."

There were two girlfriends and two hockey players following him. He said "sloppy seconds", not sloppy "thousands". He never said these girls slept around with the whole league. You're reading into it what you want to make your stance look better than it really is.

What's with being a dick man? My point was that a few people in here said things along the lines of "Yeah, he shouldn't have said it to a microphone, but...". That "but" is the point. If he says it for 60 minutes on the ice no one would give a shit.

Dude, you tossed out shit like "do you guys not understand... (blah) (blah)". Do you have any freakin' clue how assholish and insulting that sounds? You're basically saying we're incapable of grasping that basic point. You deserved every bit of dick behavior you received, and it's your own fault for doing it.

[Logan]

Wow, I didn't realize how sensitive people are.

I sincerely apologize for my choice of words as I did not intend to come off that way. I made the clearly incorrect assumption that people I converse with on a regular basis across all kinds of different threads would not read into it in that manner.

I'm sorry the Mets took K-Rod from you (olive branch?).

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Logan

Wow, I didn't realize how sensitive people are.

I sincerely apologize for my choice of words as I did not intend to come off that way. I made the clearly incorrect assumption that people I converse with on a regular basis across all kinds of different threads would not read into it in that manner.

I'm sorry the Mets took K-Rod from you (olive branch?).

Apology accepted, although I don't think I am being too sensitive to take offense when you question my intelligence.

As for K-Rod, you should already be aware I was ready to buy his plane ticket to New York. Have fun with him!

[Pumpy Tudors]

Y'all takin' this shit way too far.

[Fidatelo]

The article I read on ESPN indicated that his teammates and coach all requested that he not be allowed back. Not only does that say something about the guy, as well as the ethos of NHL players, but it also was probably a major factor in the owner's decision.

[st.cronin]

I think its pretty obvious that Avery is being released because he's an asshole that nobody on the team can stand, not because of anything he said.

[DeToxRox]

I agree with Cronin.

I love Avery but I think this had everything to do with the Stars looking for a reason to get rid of Avery and Brett Hull is going to fall on the sword as well for it.

Avery had obviously been causing problems with the teams well before this happened, but nothing they could do could justify releasing him. Now with Avery gone it justifies it to the Media and possibly allows them to recoup some money.

As far as Hull goes, this was his signing, and the whole Co-GM thing looks like it's an abject failure.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

Y'all takin' this shit way too far.

FOFC Mike Grier .. Shut up.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

FOFC Mike Grier .. Shut up.

I want to be in a three-way with Mike Grier and Anson Carter.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

I want to be in a three-way with Mike Grier and Anson Carter.

3 guys, 1 puck?

We'd need the Fox Puck Tracker to find it.

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by Logan

He didn't say anything about anyone's kids...but what is allowed to be publicly said about another player's personal life and what isn't? He called a guy's girlfriend a whore and I think if she wasn't famous, people would care more.

Do you guys really not understand that Avery saying this in public to a group of reporters is the ENTIRE issue?

Really I never heard the word whore.

[johnnyshaka]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I think he overstepped his bounds a little, but fact is, it wasn't another player's wife or kids or parents or sick dog or what not. It was just ex-girlfriends, and public figures themselves, to boot. Could I see him being suspended for a game or two, yes. Six? Really, really overboard.

I think you have to take into account Avery's past and I think that's why he got six games and not just a couple.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

I think you have to take into account Avery's past and I think that's why he got six games and not just a couple.

I could see that reasoning.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

I want to be in a three-way with Mike Grier and Anson Carter.

I think Avery's already been there, so you would just be getting his sloppy seconds.

[Maple Leafs]

What you're missing is that Sean Avery is a locker room cancer, a marginal hockey player, and at some point along the way decided that he's in the business of promoting himself as some sort of C-list celebrity rather than playing hockey.

The entire Stars roster hates the guy, and they don't think they can win with him in the locker room. So they're willing to pay him $4M a year to sit at home just so they don't have to put up with his sideshow.

It's really not that complicated.

[Oilers9911]

The sloppy seconds comment was NOT what led to this. That comment was merely the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back. There is a long laundry list of things that clown Avery did that led up to this. His teammates hate him, the coaches can't stand him and the only way they will make any progress is to get rid of him.

[samifan24]

Originally Posted by Oilers9911

The sloppy seconds comment was NOT what led to this. That comment was merely the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back. There is a long laundry list of things that clown Avery did that led up to this. His teammates hate him, the coaches can't stand him and the only way they will make any progress is to get rid of him.

I wonder why Dallas acquired him in the first place then.

[Pyser]

i thought hull is already out as co-gm?

[molson]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

What you're missing is that Sean Avery is a locker room cancer, a marginal hockey player, and at some point along the way decided that he's in the business of promoting himself as some sort of C-list celebrity rather than playing hockey.

The entire Stars roster hates the guy, and they don't think they can win with him in the locker room. So they're willing to pay him $4M a year to sit at home just so they don't have to put up with his sideshow.

It's really not that complicated.

I'm all for teams deciding a jerk player isn't worth it and getting rid of him.

I just hate the precedent of a league making morality decisions and suspending a guy.

[AgustusM]

Dallas must be an odd sports place these days with Avery and the Stars, TO and the cowboys. Radio guys must be happy.

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by molson

I just hate the precedent of a league making morality decisions and suspending a guy.

Fine, but there's no precedent here. Players have been suspended for on-ice comments before, and Mark Bell got 15 games for his drunk driving conviction last year.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by molson

I just hate the precedent of a league making morality decisions and suspending a guy.

All leagues do this. The image of a professional sports league is critically important to the league. The NFL makes "morality decisions" by suspending people all of the time. The NBA has done so as well.

I am pretty ambivalent about the whole thing. I am not upset or fret in the slightest about his suspension. The reasoning behind it was solid. Three main factors played into the league's decision: (1) the whole thing was planned, (2) he made a very rude comment about another player's girlfriend to the press, and (3) he's a repeat offender. That said, if they hadn't suspended him, I'd be fine with that decision as well.

As for the Dallas Stars not wanting him back, I don't see any issue there at all. They are still going to honor his contract. He's going to get paid either way, regardless of whether he's playing in the AHL or for another NHL franchise.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

All leagues do this. The image of a professional sports league is critically important to the league. The NFL makes "morality decisions" by suspending people all of the time. The NBA has done so as well.

Sure for drugs, or crimes, or on-field misconduct. I don't recall any players being suspended for comments (there may an example out there, but it's pretty rare). And it's a completely new phenomenon. Were there any players suspended for comments during the entire 20th century? Did nobody say anything stupid to the media over all that time? That's the trend I'm personally not a fan of, and I think its going to get worse.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by molson

Sure for drugs, or crimes, or on-field misconduct. I don't recall any players being suspended for comments (there may an example out there, but it's pretty rare). And it's a completely new phenomenon. Were there any players suspended for comments during the entire 20th century? Did nobody say anything stupid to the media over all that time? That's the trend I'm personally not a fan of, and I think its going to get worse.

Well, I don't recall any players from any leagues referring to another player's girlfriend/wife as a "slut" in front of the media before. Do you?

In 1997, Chris Simon was suspended three games for calling Mike Grier the "n word" during a game.

While it's not a sports league, Jimmy The Greek was kicked off CBA forever for making racial comments. I think that's a pretty apt comparison.

I don't consider one instance a "trend". Check back with me if it happens a couple more times.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Well, I don't recall any players from any leagues referring to another player's girlfriend/wife as a "slut" in front of the media before. Do you?

I doubt that in 100 years of sports, no athlete ever said something about another athlete's girlfriend/wife while a reporter was present. Not a chance.

In 2008 though, that's news for some reason. Front page news. I won't lose sleep over it, but that's just silly.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by molson

I doubt that in 100 years of sports, no athlete ever said something about another athlete's girlfriend/wife while a reporter was present. Not a chance.

In 2008 though, that's news for some reason. Front page news. I won't lose sleep over it, but that's just silly.

Like I said, you have to take the quote in context. It wasn't just an offhand comment to a reporter. It was a 100% stagged/pre-planned event performed by a guy whose conduct has been an issue multiple times. You can't look at this in isolation. It'd be like whining about Pacman Jones' latest suspension for getting into a fight with his bodyguard (where no arrest was made) without considering his storied past.

Even if he hadn't been suspended, it would have been news. Front page news. That's why he performed his little show.

[Tyrith]

Bottom line, Sean Avery has been intentionally to try to tick people off for a while now, doing whatever he feels like, and the league is sick of it. And I can deal with that. He intentionally pushed the boundaries as far as they could go at any chance he got, and he knew, and so did everyone else. In the long run getting suspended is probably the best thing that could ever happen to him because it gives him at least a small chance to realize that he's really messed up.

Hopefully the stuff he's doing now is going to work out for him, because I think he could still be an interesting character for the NHL while not going down to the level of scum of the earth. But if everyone is ticked off at you, it only seems logical that someone is eventually going to take action.

And, as a Stars fan, he really seemed to rattle the rest of the team, his fault or not, so I'm not particularly sad to see him gone. And I'd really, really like it if Brett Hull followed him out the door.

[Neuqua]

Well fwiw I am just about a marginal NHL fan and I know who Avery is. So he wins there.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by molson

I doubt that in 100 years of sports, no athlete ever said something about another athlete's girlfriend/wife while a reporter was present. Not a chance.

Prove it (half serious of course, but I sure as hell don't remember anything in my 20 years of following sports). I think it was you who said earlier that maybe a reporter had just never acted on it, because it was considered offensive, but as H_B said, it was probably his solicitation of reporters and "turn your camera on" statement that got it printed.

And re: your other question...John Rocker was definitely suspended for inappropriate comments in the media.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

I don't know much about the NHL, but one part of the whole SloppyGate that has confused me is this:

If Avery is such a known headache, who is not wanted back by the Stars and is a terrible player, person, and is going to hell, then why did the Stars sign him to a four-year, $15.5 million contract just this past July?

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

I don't know much about the NHL, but one part of the whole SloppyGate that has confused me is this:

If Avery is such a known headache, who is not wanted back by the Stars and is a terrible player, person, and is going to hell, then why did the Stars sign him to a four-year, $15.5 million contract just this past July?

That confused a lot of people, including a lot of people in Dallas. By all accounts it was Brett Hull's call. He really stood up for the guy and pushed for the signing. Hull played with Avery in Detroit for a while and I think liked the guy. He felt like the Stars could use the abrasiveness and the injection of a little personality.

While Avery was with the Rangers, their record with him in the line-up was many times better than their record with him out of the line-up. I think Hull viewed that as evidence of Avery's value. He has some talent and his antics do have the ability to get the other team off their game, which can be an advantage for the team he's playing for. Unfortunately, for Hull, he really underestimated just how disruptive Avery would be in his own locker room. He really should have known better, but Hull was always a bit of an out-spoken, cocky guy himself. I'm sure he saw a little bit of himself in Avery and pushed harder than he normally would for the guy,

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

While Avery was with the Rangers, their record with him in the line-up was many times better than their record with him out of the line-up. I think Hull viewed that as evidence of Avery's value.

It was night and day:

Rangers with Avery in lineup: .667 winning percentage.

Rangers without Avery in lineup: .360 winning percentage.

And despite that, the Rangers didn't bump their offer by a single dollar or any extra years from what it was in training camp until he signed with Dallas, which was telling to me back then.

[Fidatelo]

As a newly formed Rangers fan, their decision to ditch Avery and Jagr in the offseason sealed my love for them. Those were the two things I didn't like about the team from last year.

Now, if they sign Sundin, they will have taken a step back in my eyes.