Uh-Oh. Parents Not Happy

tarcone · 01-08-2009, 11:05 PM

I could use a little feedback. My daughter is in 3rd grade and playing soccer. She has played soccer for the same coach since August. I helped coach the outdoor season in the Fall and brought in about 9 girls to play on this team. When Indoor soccer started this winter, I quit coaching. I know very little about soccer and am not that interested in it. I just wanted to make sure we had enough girls to field a team. I coach a bunch of them in softball and now basketball. We have won 1 game since the outdoor season started in August. Yes, 1 game. And we regularly lose 10 or more to zero.
The guy who coaches the girls is real nice guy and very Knowledgeable about soccer. But he is very laid back. Not much of a disciplinarian. The gorls tend to run a little wild. We played in a division in outdoor that was way above our heads and face the same problem in indoor. Regularily facing teams that are a year older. This is why we lose all the time.
Thats the background.
We have a revolt on our hands. A parent is going to fire off an email to the coach. Not real sure of the content, but it wont be pretty I dont think. The parent wants to break away from this coach and take the group that I recruited and form a new team in a lessor division. The parent would coach.
The parents are tired of losing and the coaches laid back attitude.
My problem is that I like the guy, he is a maintenance guy at the school district I work at. The parents want my girl to play with them.
I am torn. My loyalty is too the parents who are revolting for the reasons stated above (I coach them in BB and SB). But I hate to piss this guy off. Like I said He is a real nice guy. And I think, eventually, he will teach them a lot. I think.
If these parents leave, he may not have a team. So my daughter would have to leave anyway.
Any thoughts on the subject would be appreciated.

st.cronin · 01-08-2009, 11:08 PM

Seems like a no-brainer to drop down a level if you're getting creamed 10-0 on a regular basis. I side with the parents - what's the point of youth sports if there's no competition?

Atocep · 01-08-2009, 11:11 PM

Quote:

The parents are tired of losing and the coaches laid back attitude.

Are the kids having fun?

Mustang · 01-08-2009, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atocep

Are the kids having fun?

That was my thought. If they are out there excercising, trying and enjoying each other as a team (even losing 10-0) well, stick with the current situation.

Unless your daughter really loves soccer and she thinks she might do it all the way through high school then maybe go with the more 'organized' group.

Glengoyne · 01-08-2009, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atocep

Are the kids having fun?

That to me is the songle most important question.

That and why would you use email to announce this. If the kids aren't having fun, then approach the guy straight up, and get his buy in to drop a division. How much of this is a power play by the emailer to become a coach or to oust the other fellow?

Eaglesfan27 · 01-08-2009, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glengoyne

That to me is the songle most important question.

That and why would you use email to announce this. If the kids aren't having fun, then approach the guy straight up, and get his buy in to drop a division. How much of this is a power play by the emailer to become a coach or to oust the other fellow?

My thoughts as well. Why not just approach this guy and ask him to drop down the division. The emailer should assist in coaching the team if he wants to.

Atocep · 01-08-2009, 11:27 PM

The reason I asked is I coach a youth league basketball team and prior this experience I was all about the winning/losing competitive side of things. What I've learned from actually working directly with young kids (I coach 7 year olds) is that winning/losing really doesn't matter much to them at that age. The most important thing is making sure they're having fun and that they're learning. Once they're older and have a better grasp on winning/losing and competition its different, but when they're that young its usually the last thing on their minds.

Kids that age can win every single game they play and if they walk away at the end of the season without having much fun then its unlikely they'll play the sport again. Put them in a situation where they're having fun and learning how to play the sport and they'll be back the following year with the knowledge necessary to succeed.

Tarone's post says that he feels the coach is knowledgeable and he feels the kids will learn a lot from him. If the kids are also having fun I don't see why any parent would want to remove them from that environment. Asking the coach to drop them down a level because you feel getting beat 10-0 on a regular basis hinders learning is understandable. Simply hijacking the team as a parent because you want to see them win more sends a really bad message to the kids and is a big part of what's wrong with youth sports to begin with.

sterlingice · 01-08-2009, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glengoyne

That to me is the songle most important question.

That and why would you use email to announce this. If the kids aren't having fun, then approach the guy straight up, and get his buy in to drop a division. How much of this is a power play by the emailer to become a coach or to oust the other fellow?

You use email to do this if you're the type of person who tries to have a coup rather than talk to the coach about it. Spoiled parents...

SI

Cringer · 01-09-2009, 12:10 AM

Um, has anyone talked to the coach about dropping the team down? Maybe if the parents go to him and talk to him about it he would be fine with that. I suggest trying to work it out with him unless all the other parents are just set on not having their kids on any team of his at any level.

tarcone · 01-09-2009, 09:33 AM

The parent who is severly pissed feels her daughter has regressed. As for fun, I think at the beginning the girls had fun. But even at 8, losing wears you down eventually. Im not sure how much fun they are having.
Another parent watched my 1st grade daughters team and commented on how much better their skill work is compared to the 3rd grade teams.
These parents also want the coach to have more control over the girls. There is feeling that the girls run wild and the parents want more structure.
The coach has already stated that we will drop down to B division next season. I think the parents want C division.

I agree that these parents should talk to him face to face. But you know how that works. As on this forum and any other forum that you hide behind a keyboard. Its easier to be brave.

I feel caught in the middle because i recruited all these players.

chesapeake · 01-09-2009, 09:47 AM

I always find it amusing when parents act younger than their children.

From what you write, tarcone, I think your instinct is to see if we all can't just get along. I think that is probably right. You should be the grownup here and try to get the parent(s) to respect the coach enough to talk to him directly. If they can't reach an amicable agreement, then they can part ways.

You would think that a parent would know that they should use their words instead of resorting directly to hit-and-run tactics. Perhaps somebody needs a time out?

DaddyTorgo · 01-09-2009, 10:17 AM

I'd say somebody should offer to assistant-coach the team with this guy and be more of the hard-ass and try to prod him to teach them sort of. Like "hey bob...what are we going to teach the girls this week?" and then handle the like...discipline and structure of the practice.

In American football terms what I think you want to do is make him the OC/DC (or hell a position coach would be a better analogy) and have someone else be the Head Coach.

But i also think dropping down would not be a bad thing - perhaps the two in combination would be most ideal.

chesapeake · 01-09-2009, 10:23 AM

I think DT is onto the right answer. If this coach is good at teaching skills -- which is a lot harder to find than an enforcer -- I'd think that you'd want to find a way to hold onto the guy in some capacity.

Telle · 01-09-2009, 10:33 AM

If the coup happens regardless of anything you try to do to stop it, then wait for the dust to settle and when the current coach no longer has a team then move your girl to the other team. That way you're not taking part in the coup but rather just reacting to the reality of the situation after it happens.

If the other parents demand to know where you stand then be honest and simply tell them that you'd personally prefer to stay with the current coach, but if he ceases to have a team then you would like your girl to be part of their new team.

Galaril · 01-09-2009, 10:41 AM

You need to give that coach the Pats Reign book on Belichick.

Barkeep49 · 01-09-2009, 10:45 AM

If the coach truly has no control over his team then it doesn't matter how good of a teacher he is, he isn't instructing the kids. I think the optimal solution, as others have suggested, assuming that the coach actually is able to instruct and help the kids improve, is to get the coach to move down with the team.

JonInMiddleGA · 01-09-2009, 11:01 AM

Quote:

I feel caught in the middle because i recruited all these players.

I'd say you don't just feel that way but rather you are caught in the middle because of that. Maybe a minor distinction but one that seemed worth making.

More importantly (to me anyway) is a bit of disconnect I'm getting from your initial post and this one. Maybe it's just my perception of it or maybe there's some sort of tell here.

You said: And I think, eventually, he will teach them a lot. I think.
You also later say: Another parent watched my 1st grade daughters team and commented on how much better their skill work is compared to the 3rd grade teams.

I may not be a soccer expert but I'm thinking this shouldn't be the case, with the possible exception of your 1st graders team being a stacked traveling squad or something like that.

This seems to indicate that he isn't actually good at teaching skills at all. Maybe that's an overall coaching problem, maybe it's just a function of the apparent lack of focus he's demanding or whatever, but the bottom line sounds like they aren't learning much (for whatever reason) and they're being run out as cannon fodder at the same time. Makes it pretty easy for me to see why parents are looking for a different situation.

Sounds to me like this may just boil down to him being a really nice guy who has good intentions but really shouldn't be a head coach.

BrianD · 01-09-2009, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Sounds to me like this may just boil down to him being a really nice guy who has good intentions but really shouldn't be a head coach.

+1

This is the same reason that I've often thought about coaching youth sports but never actually do it. I'd be this guy.

Raiders Army · 01-09-2009, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mustang

That was my thought. If they are out there excercising, trying and enjoying each other as a team (even losing 10-0) well, stick with the current situation.

Unless your daughter really loves soccer and she thinks she might do it all the way through high school then maybe go with the more 'organized' group.

I don't know if asking "Are the girls having fun?" is even a valid question. IMHO, they either aren't having fun or shouldn't be having fun. Regardless of whatever trite sayings are out there, losing sucks and kids need to learn that it sucks. I'm not saying that winning is everything nor am I condoning a "win at all costs" attitude, but one of the problems with kids (and adults) today is that it's okay to lose. It's never okay to lose. Sure, you should learn from your losses, but at some point you need to instill a winning spirit in kids. If they get used to losing that's what they'll come to expect (example: Oakland Raiders).

To the original post, I'd say that tarcone has a responsibility to the parents whose children he brought onto the team. There's been good advice posted already on how to handle the situation, so I won't repeat it. The coach probably isn't oblivious to the losing situation, so I think that he would accept both constructive criticism and discipline for the team. Good luck with handling both the parents and the coach.

BYU 14 · 01-09-2009, 11:31 AM

Jon's post makes a lot of good points. So much of the coaching game is in ones abilty to relate to the kids (and Parents) and more importantly to lead them. It really doesn't matter if you are the greatest X's and O's guy around if you can't do that, you can encounter problems.

I would say that if you know the guy well enough, talk to him. It sounds like he knows a dropping a division is a wise move, so maybe suggest C. If he doesn't have an assistant, talk to him about the parent that is preparing the email. You can approach this as a friend and fellow coach and make some suggestions on things that may help (Discipline, maybe a little more "fire" from him, organizaton etc) I would basically try and keep things intact and just improve the situation if possible.

At this age IMO competition should be secondary and enjoyment/skill development first. That said, we all know it is not fun to lose week in and week out, so it should be the coaches job to prep the kids well enough to compete, while not making it a focal point if his/her message. Winning will take care of itself if you do those things (up to the point talent allows) and doesn't need to be discussed at this age.

As for the email thing, not a good idea. The Parent needs to step up and discuss his concerns and perhaps you could serve as a buffer. Not that it you are obligated to, but as you mentioned you feel a sense of being connected to both sides.

A laid back approach is very good at this age for a youth coach, but you still have to sprinkle it with enthusiasm and a bit of discipline, otherwise it come off like you don't care and the Kids will pick that up, no matter what age and you will lose them. At this age I believe as long as they can see the coach cares about them and the can see their own improvement (and have it recoginzed) they can still have fun even when they lose more than they win.

Either way, youth sports "physics" as I call them can be tough when you are in the middle of them. Best of luck.

01-08-2009, 11:08 PM	#2
st.cronin General Manager Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: New Mexico	Seems like a no-brainer to drop down a level if you're getting creamed 10-0 on a regular basis. I side with the parents - what's the point of youth sports if there's no competition? __________________ co-commish: bb-bbcf.net knives out

01-08-2009, 11:27 PM	#7
Atocep Coordinator Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Puyallup, WA	The reason I asked is I coach a youth league basketball team and prior this experience I was all about the winning/losing competitive side of things. What I've learned from actually working directly with young kids (I coach 7 year olds) is that winning/losing really doesn't matter much to them at that age. The most important thing is making sure they're having fun and that they're learning. Once they're older and have a better grasp on winning/losing and competition its different, but when they're that young its usually the last thing on their minds. Kids that age can win every single game they play and if they walk away at the end of the season without having much fun then its unlikely they'll play the sport again. Put them in a situation where they're having fun and learning how to play the sport and they'll be back the following year with the knowledge necessary to succeed. Tarone's post says that he feels the coach is knowledgeable and he feels the kids will learn a lot from him. If the kids are also having fun I don't see why any parent would want to remove them from that environment. Asking the coach to drop them down a level because you feel getting beat 10-0 on a regular basis hinders learning is understandable. Simply hijacking the team as a parent because you want to see them win more sends a really bad message to the kids and is a big part of what's wrong with youth sports to begin with. Last edited by Atocep : 01-08-2009 at 11:29 PM.

01-09-2009, 12:10 AM	#9
Cringer Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Edinburg,TX	Um, has anyone talked to the coach about dropping the team down? Maybe if the parents go to him and talk to him about it he would be fine with that. I suggest trying to work it out with him unless all the other parents are just set on not having their kids on any team of his at any level. __________________ You Stole Fizzy Lifting drinks! You bumped into the ceiling which now has to be washed and steralized, so you get NOTHING! You lose!

01-09-2009, 10:17 AM	#12
DaddyTorgo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Massachusetts	I'd say somebody should offer to assistant-coach the team with this guy and be more of the hard-ass and try to prod him to teach them sort of. Like "hey bob...what are we going to teach the girls this week?" and then handle the like...discipline and structure of the practice. In American football terms what I think you want to do is make him the OC/DC (or hell a position coach would be a better analogy) and have someone else be the Head Coach. But i also think dropping down would not be a bad thing - perhaps the two in combination would be most ideal. Last edited by DaddyTorgo : 01-09-2009 at 10:18 AM.

01-09-2009, 10:41 AM	#15
Galaril Pro Starter Join Date: Jan 2004	You need to give that coach the Pats Reign book on Belichick. Last edited by Galaril : 01-09-2009 at 11:01 AM.

01-09-2009, 09:33 AM	#10
tarcone Coordinator Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Pacific	The parent who is severly pissed feels her daughter has regressed. As for fun, I think at the beginning the girls had fun. But even at 8, losing wears you down eventually. Im not sure how much fun they are having. Another parent watched my 1st grade daughters team and commented on how much better their skill work is compared to the 3rd grade teams. These parents also want the coach to have more control over the girls. There is feeling that the girls run wild and the parents want more structure. The coach has already stated that we will drop down to B division next season. I think the parents want C division. I agree that these parents should talk to him face to face. But you know how that works. As on this forum and any other forum that you hide behind a keyboard. Its easier to be brave. I feel caught in the middle because i recruited all these players.

01-09-2009, 09:47 AM	#11
chesapeake College Starter Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Arlington, VA	I always find it amusing when parents act younger than their children. From what you write, tarcone, I think your instinct is to see if we all can't just get along. I think that is probably right. You should be the grownup here and try to get the parent(s) to respect the coach enough to talk to him directly. If they can't reach an amicable agreement, then they can part ways. You would think that a parent would know that they should use their words instead of resorting directly to hit-and-run tactics. Perhaps somebody needs a time out?

01-09-2009, 10:23 AM	#13
chesapeake College Starter Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Arlington, VA	I think DT is onto the right answer. If this coach is good at teaching skills -- which is a lot harder to find than an enforcer -- I'd think that you'd want to find a way to hold onto the guy in some capacity.

01-09-2009, 10:33 AM	#14
Telle College Starter Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Buffalo, NY	If the coup happens regardless of anything you try to do to stop it, then wait for the dust to settle and when the current coach no longer has a team then move your girl to the other team. That way you're not taking part in the coup but rather just reacting to the reality of the situation after it happens. If the other parents demand to know where you stand then be honest and simply tell them that you'd personally prefer to stay with the current coach, but if he ceases to have a team then you would like your girl to be part of their new team.

01-09-2009, 10:45 AM	#16
Barkeep49 Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Not too far away	If the coach truly has no control over his team then it doesn't matter how good of a teacher he is, he isn't instructing the kids. I think the optimal solution, as others have suggested, assuming that the coach actually is able to instruct and help the kids improve, is to get the coach to move down with the team.

01-09-2009, 11:31 AM	#20
BYU 14 Coordinator Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The scorched Desert	Jon's post makes a lot of good points. So much of the coaching game is in ones abilty to relate to the kids (and Parents) and more importantly to lead them. It really doesn't matter if you are the greatest X's and O's guy around if you can't do that, you can encounter problems. I would say that if you know the guy well enough, talk to him. It sounds like he knows a dropping a division is a wise move, so maybe suggest C. If he doesn't have an assistant, talk to him about the parent that is preparing the email. You can approach this as a friend and fellow coach and make some suggestions on things that may help (Discipline, maybe a little more "fire" from him, organizaton etc) I would basically try and keep things intact and just improve the situation if possible. At this age IMO competition should be secondary and enjoyment/skill development first. That said, we all know it is not fun to lose week in and week out, so it should be the coaches job to prep the kids well enough to compete, while not making it a focal point if his/her message. Winning will take care of itself if you do those things (up to the point talent allows) and doesn't need to be discussed at this age. As for the email thing, not a good idea. The Parent needs to step up and discuss his concerns and perhaps you could serve as a buffer. Not that it you are obligated to, but as you mentioned you feel a sense of being connected to both sides. A laid back approach is very good at this age for a youth coach, but you still have to sprinkle it with enthusiasm and a bit of discipline, otherwise it come off like you don't care and the Kids will pick that up, no matter what age and you will lose them. At this age I believe as long as they can see the coach cares about them and the can see their own improvement (and have it recoginzed) they can still have fun even when they lose more than they win. Either way, youth sports "physics" as I call them can be tough when you are in the middle of them. Best of luck.

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