Damn dog.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

I have a black lab. He's as inbred and stupid as a lab can be. He has a food obsession. When he got to the point of not being able to walk around the block without stopping I took him to the vet & was told that he needed to lose weight.

That's when the problems really started. Now that he dropped 35 pounds to a healthy 80 he destroys things for food. He'll eat practically anything. Walking him is a constant battle to watch for things he may eat. Once he actually ate the little plastic ring from a cap gun.

When I am gone he looks for food. He was getting into the trash (and destroying everything in the process. Then he started going into the sink if I had anything that needed to be washed. Broke a couple dishes, some glass... yes, there was blood. I finally built a door to keep him out of the kitchen. Now he climbs the furniture when I'm gone to get what may be on top... A few days ago it was a container of chocolate marshmallows from Whole Foods (recommended.) Today he really did it.

I walked him today when I got in without checking the apartment. When he hunched over the most god-awful light brown diarrhea came out. Looked like paint. But there was no food ANYWHERE where he could get to it. So he found this:



This dog got damn lucky that in his haste to eat the vitamins he sealed most of them off, or I'd be looking for a new dog. As it is I wonder what's next.

[spleen1015]

Caesar Milan!

[thesloppy]

Dogs cannot discern between EDIBLE and EATABLE. they think if they can get it in their mouth, it must be for eating.

Before I had a dog (R.I.P. Jake) I used to imagine dogs as this smart, loyal, noble animal, like Lassie was like on TV. Now, when I imagine a dog, the image that comes to mind is just a goat. Same goddamn thing.

[molson]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

Dogs cannot discern between EDIBLE and EATABLE. they think if they can get it in their mouth, it must be for eating.

Before I had a dog (R.I.P. Jake) I used to imagine dogs as this smart, loyal, noble animal, like Lassie was like on TV. Now, when I imagine a dog, the image that comes to mind is just a goat. Same goddamn thing.

Don't be throwing your dog under the bus. You can actually train dogs to not eat things they're not supposed to.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

What did Jake eat that was un-Lassie like?

My last dog was the coolest. I didn't even have to feed him daily... I'd just fill a big ass bowl with food. He's eat until full then leave the rest for later. Then a couple days later I'd hear him knock the bowl down the stairs. Time for food! He didn't even eat most dog treats. Milk Bone? It would sit there collecting dust. (R.I.P. Kidd)

[PilotMan]

I don't even want to tell you how our elderly greyhound has ruined our bedroom carpet. He is almost 12, has always had stomach problems, and is generally loved.

I almost killed him last week. It took the better part of an hour to clean up his mess, and it was all over. The carpet was on the docket to be changed anyway, just not this soon.

I have always had touble with my other one. She gets into everything, and when she was a puppy she was terrible. I have gotten used to it 11 years later. She is smart, and mean, and will live to be 100.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

OH GREAT...

I wondered why the whole apartment smeeled like multi-vitamins. Right under my computer chair I just found where he puked & licked it up. Time to clean the carpet (again)

Originally Posted by molson

Don't be throwing your dog under the bus. You can actually train dogs to not eat things they're not supposed to.

He knows when he does wrong... He will act all sorry. He still does it.

[Ryche]

My pup had developed the wonderful habit of chewing little holes in the carpet. Looks just lovely.

[lungs]

Funny, this morning I came out of my bedroom to the most god awful smell coming from my two dogs' crates. I took a look inside and both of them had shit all over their crates. They aren't a year old yet but neither had shit in their crate for some time now.

I'm pretty sure they got into something yesterday. I live out in the country so I let my dog's outside and let them roam. They came back inside yesterday and smelled like they'd been into something dead. I'm guessing that is what they were shitting out last night.

I hope it doesn't happen again tonight.

[terpkristin]

On the one hand, I'm sorry your dog's made such a mess...on the other, this reminds me of my old lab. The first night we had him (we got him as rescue when he was about 3), my mom was cooking pork, had a loin or whatever tied up on the counter. Not used to having a dog, much less one who could easily reach the counter on his hind legs, my mom turned away for a second, and in one fell swoop he stood up so his front paws were on the counter and had the entire loin in his mouth. About 2 seconds later, it was gone. We had pizza that night. Greatest. dog. ever.

/tk

[SackAttack]

There will be no badmouthing of black labs while I am in electronic earshot.

Are we clear, mister?

[M GO BLUE!!!]

Originally Posted by terpkristin

On the one hand, I'm sorry your dog's made such a mess...on the other, this reminds me of my old lab. The first night we had him (we got him as rescue when he was about 3), my mom was cooking pork, had a loin or whatever tied up on the counter. Not used to having a dog, much less one who could easily reach the counter on his hind legs, my mom turned away for a second, and in one fell swoop he stood up so his front paws were on the counter and had the entire loin in his mouth. About 2 seconds later, it was gone. We had pizza that night. Greatest. dog. ever.

/tk

You missed the part about the hospital & the cast...

My mom's former dog waited patiently while she cooked country ribs (mmmm.) Sure enough one slipped off the tongs & didn't make it to the ground. We chased him around the yard for several minutes, not allowing him to swallow it. When we caught him mom pried it from his mouth, threw it back on the grill and said "that one is your grandma's." My sister wondered why mom was cracking up every time I asked grandma if she liked her dinner.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by molson

Don't be throwing your dog under the bus. You can actually train dogs to not eat things they're not supposed to.

+1

My dog is awesome about not eating anything that isnt given to him.

You could literally put a plate of food on the ground and he wouldn't touch it unless told to.

[Karlifornia]

Originally Posted by Lathum

+1

My dog is awesome about not eating anything that isnt given to him.

You could literally put a plate of food on the ground and he wouldn't touch it unless told to.

When I lived with my mom, we had a black chow chow named Allie (she's actually still alive and kicking at 12 years old). Wonderful, smart dog. Listens to everything you ask of her, doesn't chew anything but her bones, toys, or treats.

On the other hand, my roommates have a basset hound named Frank living with us now. Frank is....destructive. He's still young, though, so I'm holding out hope for him.

[CU Tiger]

#1...Labs need a LOT of exercise....if you are walking at a slow pace he could probably stand 4-5 hours without breaking a sweat. Mine has run of the back yard (4+ acres) and gets taken for a swim 1x a week which generally last an hour or so...(yes even in the winter, she jumps right in) #2 get a Kong and fill it with peanut butter...you shouldnt have anymore chewing problems. #3 For the random out of the blue diarrhea or vomit attack, and for the carpet eating dogs, mak sure your dog is on a heartworm preventative. Heartworms cause terrible acid reflux like symptoms and will cause squirts and vomit...dogs will eat grass to induce vomiting if they have an upset stomach so the acid reflux feelings start and thee they try to eat grass, being inside carpet=grass.... We just finished a round of treatment for heartworms that got into our labs....they are now on preventative...

[JonInMiddleGA]

Seems pretty obvious from reading this that the whatever weight loss regime needed to drop 1/3rd of his body weight created (or enhanced) some food anxiety issues for the dog. Kind of like people who suffered through the Depression tend to be hoarders, it sure sounds like he's concerned about his food status to the extent that he'll eat anything that doesn't eat him first.

I'm not much on a good bit of the psychological stuff that's done with pets these days but this does sound like a case where some professional therapy might help alleviate the problem.

[MrDNA]

Boy do I love my cats *self-satisfied smirk*

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by MrDNA

Boy do I love my cats *self-satisfied smirk*

Obviously you haven't tried to take weight off a chubby cat. You think the dog has food issues? Hoo boy.

[Ryche]

Best mess my dog has made was after she found half a rabbit in the backyard and then ate about a quarter of that. Promptly threw it back up in the house, with chunks of fur and everything else. So thankful she at least puked onto the hardwood flooring and not carpet.

[Dutch]

I have a yellow lab that is somewhat fat and full of energy. I'm afraid of what would happen if I put that dog on a diet. Well, at least now I am.

[Karlifornia]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Obviously you haven't tried to take weight off a chubby cat. You think the dog has food issues? Hoo boy.

Jon, you bastard. I go back and forth between loving you and hating you, but damn it if you didn't just win me over with your (unexpected from my end) love for cats. An earnest +1 to you, my friend.

[tarcone]

My Chocolate Lab eats those Kongs. They are overrated.
I think exercise is key. Ours had found the storage area in the basement. When we ar gone to work, we let her have the run of the house (with the exception of the bedrooms). She is 2. I know its probably early to let her run the house. But I feel she is a good home security system. Wife is in favor of kenneling all day. Ive spared the dog so far. FREEDOM.

[lungs]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Obviously you haven't tried to take weight off a chubby cat. You think the dog has food issues? Hoo boy.

+1

My indoor cat weighs over 20 pounds and was generously described by a vet as morbidly obese.

Weight control food means she'll just eat more of it. Now I try to find a happy medium of feeding her enough where she doesn't bug me all the time and not adding more weight onto her fat ass.

[terpkristin]

For people with overweight cats, how do you feed them? I mean, I've got a cat, he's about 12 pounds. He probably could stand to lose a little weight, but if you pet him, you see his skin is "loose" (if you pick it up, you're not picking up fat). I give him 1/2 cup of adult cat food in the morning (the stuff for indoor/less-active cats) and a little bit more at night (maybe 1/8 cup?). He's always ready when it's time for food, but I haven't found him opening cupboards or anything. All that said, I'm giving him less food than it recommends to give him on the side of the package, I worry about malnutrition as much as I worry about overfeeding..

/tk

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by terpkristin

For people with overweight cats, how do you feed them? I mean, I've got a cat, he's about 12 pounds. ... All that said, I'm giving him less food than it recommends to give him on the side of the package, I worry about malnutrition as much as I worry about overfeeding..

/tk

Like most things with cats, I'd say there's going to be a lot of YMMV with dealing with their weight. As more than one vet has explained to us, cats don't lose weight the same as dogs or humans, something about a different sort of metabolism. Dogs, like humans, will lose weight fairly steadily if you restrict their caloric intake. Otherwise healthy cats on the other hand generally get maximum weight loss in ounces a month no matter what you reasonably do with their food, so just cutting back probably won't work on a major weight problem.

In our major weight case, we had gotten a cat that was accustomed to eating Irish butter on a regular basis (no, I'm not kidding) and had gotten up around 25 pounds instead of the 12-13 pounds that was appropriate for him. He had other health issues going on as well so getting the weight down was becoming vital.

Since appointment feeding wasn't realistic with our schedules, we knew that on-demand feeding (i.e. there's always a bowl of food available) had to be part of the plan. Vets tend to hate that even though a lot of cats seem to enjoy it, but you have to deal with reality. So our vet recommended we try what had been coined the Catkins Diet. Basically a low-carb, high protein diet for cats. It makes sense when you consider what cats eat in the wild, it's not grass & grain, it's meat.

Naturally that brought us to the next problem: cats can be really fussy about their food, especially when it comes to changes in their food. Long story short, in order to integrate the new food with his old I resorted to measuring the mixture to slowly ramp up the new:old ratio. Too fast a change, he'd walk away & refuse it without fail. Roughly two years later, he was on around a 70-30 mix of mostly the high protein stuff, but more importantly he was a 15-16 pound cat.

While it's easy to say "oh they'll eat if they get hungry enough" with cats that's not necessarily a healthy approach. Again here, what multiple vets have told us consistently is that it takes as little as 48 hours without food & water for a cat to begin suffering damage to internal organs, damage that isn't reversible. Remember, these aren't people, they're cats with a body mass somewhere between an infant & a toddler, the margin of error you get to work with isn't nearly as great as an adult human or even a large dog.

Anyway, story aside, here's how I'd answer your question
1) Talk to your vet about the cat's weight. Where are they now, where should they be. And their recommendations (plural) about how to help get them there. If there's a serious weight problem, for the cat's sake don't just try to wing it on your own without good advice & support.

2) Be realistic. Insist that the plan take reality into account. If you're not home at consistent times every day because of work or other demands then a schedule that calls for carefully regulated feeding times isn't going to work & do little except frustrate both you and the cat. Work within the confines of what you can actually do, not what the perfect plan would normally dictate.

3) Be flexible. Measuring every bowl of food wasn't exactly my idea of fun but it was something that was working, so I stuck with it. Living in Hooterville at the time, it also meant eventually finding an online source to order the particular food that worked best, there wasn't a consistent local source within 50 miles of us.

4) Be reasonable. The object here is a healthy cat that's also happy. Keeping them away from table food on a daily basis is usually a good idea. Having a conniption if they happen to scarf a dropped potato chip once a week isn't usually necessary. Same goes with kitty treats or anything else that's part of their routine. If there's not some specific reason(s) for draconian measures then don't get completely carried away about it.

Our experience with cats & weight loss has consistently been that it's a marathon not a sprint. Get good advice, don't expect it to be a quick fix thing, don't expect unreasonable results, be willing to put in at least a little extra effort, pay attention to what's working for both you & the cat, then adjust the plan with your vet as needed. I'm proud to say that in the most extreme case we've had, our vet praised the outcome as one of the most successful weight loss ventures she'd ever seen with a cat, one that worked because we were persistent but realistic at the same time.

[miked]

Originally Posted by M GO BLUE!!!

He knows when he does wrong... He will act all sorry. He still does it.

I think this is a common misconception. He doesn't feel guilty or sorry, he just reacts to your feelings/attitude. Chances are, he has absolutely no idea what he did wrong. We took our dog through several training classes and were constantly reminded that the memory of a dog for reinforcement is about a minute. If you don't correct/reward behaviors right as they happen, they have no idea what you correcting/rewarding.

Our dog at a shitload of monkey grass berries one day in the backyard. She spent the next few hours asking to outside and basically shitting monkey grass berries. She had no idea, though it sucked, why she kept crapping these things up. Because she ate them hours ago, she did not equate the crapping to eating the berries. Case in point, I caught her the next day grazing on these berries again. Since I caught her and was able to correct it (a simple no shout and squirt bottle) she did not eat them again.

You either need to crate your dog while you are gone, or take extra care not to keep these things within any reach if you are not going to do that. Maybe a giant nyla bone to redirect the behavior, or try feeding more sporadically throughout the day. I'm not a professional so this is amateur advice, so I would consult a vet/trainer.

[LoneStarGirl]

We don't crate any of my dogs, but we do lock one in the laundry room while we are gone, one in the master bedroom and one in my office. I thought it was punishment locking them up while we are at work, but every morning when I am getting my shoes on they run to their rooms and sit there. My German Shepherd, Grunt, ate something terrible a few weeks ago and I came home from work and there were 8 different spots of diarrhea in my office. It took me over three hours on my hands and knees to clean it up and two spots are still there... but in two years its only happened once.

We can't let our dogs roam the house because the trashcan would be ripped apart, they would be on the furniture (which they dont get on while we are home, but when we are gone they think they have free reign) and dog hair would be everywhere! But hey at least they dont eat our vitamins

[miked]

My dog loves her crate. She gets a treat when she goes in (never use it for punishment) and when we are getting ready to go out, she'll run in there and wait for us to treat her and leave. Sometimes she even naps in it. You just have to be consistent, but a lot of times it is for their own good.

[flere-imsaho]

So, yesterday (Sunday) and I'm on the living room carpet with the 6-month son and the dog. We're all just hanging out. The dog is lying down watching the kid, the kid is submitting a series of toys to mouth inspection, and I'm lying there basically falling asleep.

Now, I love the two of them, but one of the "problems" is that both have a tendency to vomit (well, in the kid's case "spit up" is more accurate) with basically no warning.

Yep, you know where this is going.

I hear one sound from the dog and then "BLEAUGH", a nice yellow pile on the carpet, in front of the kid. Who doesn't notice it. However, as he just finished eating about 20 minutes earlier, it's probably perfectly coincidental that about 2 seconds later "BLOOP", a good chunk of formula ends up on the carpet, comingling with the dog vomit.

Zero to "OMG WTF!" in about 3 seconds flat.

[chesapeake]

Originally Posted by terpkristin

For people with overweight cats, how do you feed them?

Jon's advice is great, and similar to the route we took when our two 14+ pound cats got trimmed down to about 11 lbs. Your vet is the best place to start to get your cat to the best weight for him.

My girls eat less than your cat -- 1/4th cup each for the "big" meal and 1/8th each for brunch, so that is probably one reason they are lighter.

Our vet recommended Science Diet Indoor Cat food and it seems to be working pretty well. It is designed to take into account that indoor cats are even more lazy than their outdoor colleagues and need to reduce their calories appropriately.

They do yammer a lot to get fed around mealtimes, so we planned them to happen at a time when the noise wasn't a big deal. The automatic feeder was great for this -- we were able to time one feeding for the early afternoon when we were at work -- until the smartest cat I've ever met figured out how to open it whenever she wanted to. She can also open doors.

[lungs]

Damn it, my dogs shit in their crate again last night. They earned themselves two nights outdoors!

[M GO BLUE!!!]

Originally Posted by miked

I think this is a common misconception. He doesn't feel guilty or sorry, he just reacts to your feelings/attitude.

I can walk in the door and before I even know anything is different... one look at his demeanor will tell on him. He comes to me slowly, tail between legs. Of course, when I walked in and found garbage, broken glass & blood everywhere he was hiding...

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Seems pretty obvious from reading this that the whatever weight loss regime needed to drop 1/3rd of his body weight created (or enhanced) some food anxiety issues for the dog. Kind of like people who suffered through the Depression tend to be hoarders, it sure sounds like he's concerned about his food status to the extent that he'll eat anything that doesn't eat him first.

Basically it involved a weight control food & cutting back about 1/2 to 1/3 what I had been giving him. He's now back on the regular Iams, getting about 2/3 to 3/4 what he previously got... but when he eats he swallows it whole. About 1 cup is gone within 10 seconds.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by chesapeake

She can also open doors.

Ain't that a bitch? Our big tom can do that, freaked us out the first time we watched him do it.

Freaked him out too when he let himself out of the basement door into the garage ... and our other adult cat at the time apparently closed it behind him. Took her hours to forgive me for letting him back in.

[Glengoyne]

Couple of things...Lungs, in my understanding dogs won't go (as in 'take a dump') in their crates unless there is something considerably wrong...that is why crate training work for potty training. I'd be a little concerned.

On dogs not knowing what they've done. I'm not sure. Our cardigan corgi will seriously avert eye contact when we return to find he has done something wrong. If he won't look at us when we enter, we start looking for what he's done. We've found lots of stuff. Chairs overturned, a box of chocolates eaten, garbage tipped over, pharmaceutical bottles that went the way of M Go Blue's vitamins, a hole in the carpet(we were home for that one), all..no ALL of my sister's mini-blinds, and assorted other odds and ends that we've left lying around. In any case, he's really slowed down on his neurotic behavior with real access to the out doors while we're out.

Oh another thing that people in this thread should know. You can purge a dog's stomach by feeding them a tablespoon or so of Hydrogen Peroxide. As you can probably imagine...it isn't pretty.

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by miked

I think this is a common misconception. He doesn't feel guilty or sorry, he just reacts to your feelings/attitude. Chances are, he has absolutely no idea what he did wrong. We took our dog through several training classes and were constantly reminded that the memory of a dog for reinforcement is about a minute. If you don't correct/reward behaviors right as they happen, they have no idea what you correcting/rewarding.

Our dog at a shitload of monkey grass berries one day in the backyard. She spent the next few hours asking to outside and basically shitting monkey grass berries. She had no idea, though it sucked, why she kept crapping these things up. Because she ate them hours ago, she did not equate the crapping to eating the berries. Case in point, I caught her the next day grazing on these berries again. Since I caught her and was able to correct it (a simple no shout and squirt bottle) she did not eat them again.

You either need to crate your dog while you are gone, or take extra care not to keep these things within any reach if you are not going to do that. Maybe a giant nyla bone to redirect the behavior, or try feeding more sporadically throughout the day. I'm not a professional so this is amateur advice, so I would consult a vet/trainer.

I think you are missing a key point.
If a dog is not taught what is right/wrong and you just yeell or hit, then no they do not know they have done wrong.

BUT if they have learned an act is right/wrong and then do it, they will sulk and expect punishment.

this wasnt apparently the first time, so he already knew punishment would result from the act, seeing his master meant it was punishment time.

Also that someone said dogs wont go in a crate unless something is bad wrong, is laughable. My labs will go to their crate anytime they have been bad or even if they are tired and dont want to play. Crate training works because dogs have an inherent sense of hygiene and will not as a rule shit where they sleep. Wanna break a dog from pooping in their crate, dont clean it for a few days (j/k)

[miked]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

I think you are missing a key point.
If a dog is not taught what is right/wrong and you just yeell or hit, then no they do not know they have done wrong.

BUT if they have learned an act is right/wrong and then do it, they will sulk and expect punishment.

this wasnt apparently the first time, so he already knew punishment would result from the act, seeing his master meant it was punishment time.

Also that someone said dogs wont go in a crate unless something is bad wrong, is laughable. My labs will go to their crate anytime they have been bad or even if they are tired and dont want to play. Crate training works because dogs have an inherent sense of hygiene and will not as a rule shit where they sleep. Wanna break a dog from pooping in their crate, dont clean it for a few days (j/k)

Well, the first part of your statement is quite controversial, as many behaviorists feel they are reacting to your energy, though some do believe they are remembering the punishment and expecting it. I think it's doubtful he knew it was "punishment time" but I'm not 100% on that, so take it for what it is. However, clearly the dog referenced above should not be left home alone without supervision or a crate.

My dog loves her crate, it's clean, and she gets treats for going in there.