Could You Live on Minimum Wage?

[RainMaker]

My friend and I were arguing about this over the weekend. I was trying to make a case that it could be done. In fact, my belief is that the whining about this is completely overblown. Now here are the factors in place:

- You can live wherever you want.
- $6.55 an hour and 40 hours a week
- You have health insurance through your company

If I had that, I truly believe I could easily survive. Now life wouldn't be very extravvegent, but I could definitely get by.

[DaddyTorgo]

Hulu - 30 Days: Minimum Wage - Watch the full episode now.

[DaddyTorgo]

depends on what your definition of "survive" is I suppose, but I sure wouldn't want to after watching that (back when it premiered).

and they were multiple people working multiple jobs, not even 1 job (IIRC).

So my answer is hell no.

[stevew]

Min Wage is 7.25 now, i believe.

Anyways, not a chance, cause you won't get 40 hours a week with almost any "shit" job these days.

-Criteria that might allow you to survive-
Rent of less than 400 dollars a month, with utilities included
Ability to walk to work or good public transportation system


I know back in like 97 I was only making about 1000 a month, and we managed. Although it was far from pretty and prices on everything were a lot lower than they are now.

[Young Drachma]

13,624

as one person? Sure, you could do it. Would it be fun? Not really. With a family of 3 and say, one person not able to work? No way.

If both wage earners were making that? It'd still be far less than a picnic. But it's easier to say you could do it, when the reality is you'll likely never have to.

[DaddyTorgo]

you can do it as long as you never get sick or have to go to the doctor, or etc sure. but once you have an event like that, you're fucked.

[RendeR]

Two words



Fuck


No

[Radii]

A huge part of this depends on how much that group health plan through your company costs. A company paying minimum wage probably isn't doing a whole lot to help you there and your healthcare is very possibly 20% of your pay.

either way though, the answer is that I am 100% sure I could find a way to do it, likely with family support(ie housing) but I would be insanely unhappy about my situation.

The ability to do it long term again comes down to health. One accident, one surgery, and you're ruined, even with healthcare. Best case with a great health plan you have a deductible of $1500, and more likely the type of plan you're getting that you and a minimum wage paying company can afford has a $2500 deductible, ie 2 1/2 months salary.


When I was 21 I could have done this easily. I lived in a house with 3 other people near Ga Tech's campus, my rent was $225/mo, I didn't own a car and walked to the transit station to get anywhere, split utilities 4 ways, and yeah one could live on $12,000/year that way.


Now that I've had better, I'm sure I could do it as a matter of survival, but holy shit it would seem terrible.

[stevew]

If they are giving you free 100% free health care, then it's much more than just a min wage job. I mean, that's probably like 150 dollars a week or more.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

My friend and I were arguing about this over the weekend. I was trying to make a case that it could be done. In fact, my belief is that the whining about this is completely overblown. Now here are the factors in place:

- You can live wherever you want.
- $6.55 an hour and 40 hours a week
- You have health insurance through your company

If I had that, I truly believe I could easily survive. Now life wouldn't be very extravvegent, but I could definitely get by.

I'd like to see you try and do this without any help from family or close friends. Could you survive? Yes, you would still be living, but you're crazy if you think you can have any sort of a life with that. People who make minimum wage will often need to work two of those 40 hour a week jobs to get by.

[RainMaker]

Well lets use Wal-Mart as an example. What would be the cost of health insurance for a single person at a company like that?

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Danny

I'd like to see you try and do this without any help from family or close friends. Could you survive? Yes, you would still be living, but you're crazy if you think you can have any sort of a life with that. People who make minimum wage will often need to work two of those 40 hour a week jobs to get by.

I'm not talking about a life, I'm just talking about surviving.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I'm not talking about a life, I'm just talking about surviving.

Well then sure, unless something unexpected happens that most people have the ability to overcome, you would likely end up homeless.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

In fact, my belief is that the whining about this is completely overblown. Now here are the factors in place:

And this is the statement I have a problem with, unless you have walked in someone's shoes that has experienced this, I wouldn't so hastily decide that living in poverty is overblown. Sure, being in poverty in this country is better than it is in many other countries, but considering the lifestyles all of us here are used to, I'm sure it would be pretty bad.

[RainMaker]

You won't pay any income tax and you would get some money back from Earned Income Credit. You could qualify for some government assistance such as food stamps.

Now I'm talking about no cable TV, no cell phone, just bare bones living. Food costs aren't hard to keep down on your own and if you can find a way to use public transportation to get to work, you don't have to worry about a car payment or insurance.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Danny

And this is the statement I have a problem with, unless you have walked in someone's shoes that has experienced this, I wouldn't so hastily decide that living in poverty is overblown. Sure, being in poverty in this country is better than it is in many other countries, but considering the lifestyles all of us here are used to, I'm sure it would be pretty bad.

I was extremely poor in college and was able to live on under $10,000 a year. I had a couple roommates and was able to really go cheap on food and other stuff. I'd even have enough to go out on occasion.

My thoughts are that it can be done. Certainly having major life altering events such as a major illness causes huge problems. But if you are able to avoid those, you should be able to get by. I just think we've hit a point where we expect minimum wage to afford a nice cell phone and cable TV when these should be considered luxuries.

[Danny]

And what happens if the bus is late or misses it's route one day and you're late for work and lose your job for that? Heat and water and power even for a small place can run quite high if you're in a cold/hot environment.

Also, it was said earlier, but most businesses will not give the minimum wage workers 40 hours, nor will they get free health insurance.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I was extremely poor in college and was able to live on under $10,000 a year. I had a couple roommates and was able to really go cheap on food and other stuff. I'd even have enough to go out on occasion.

My thoughts are that it can be done. Certainly having major life altering events such as a major illness causes huge problems. But if you are able to avoid those, you should be able to get by. I just think we've hit a point where we expect minimum wage to afford a nice cell phone and cable TV when these should be considered luxuries.

i'm not sure i get what you mean about what we expect minimum wage to afford...

[DaddyTorgo]

you'll be eating rice and beans every night too. and lord forbid your water or power goes out in your apartment...you're screwed.

college is different than life.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Danny

And what happens if the bus is late or misses it's route one day and you're late for work and lose your job for that? Heat and water and power even for a small place can run quite high if you're in a cold/hot environment.

Also, it was said earlier, but most businesses will not give the minimum wage workers 40 hours, nor will they get free health insurance.

That's life. There are a lot of people who take public transportation and are able to keep their jobs.

Those can be high costs but with roommates can be cut down drastically. Also living in a warmer climate would avoid having to pay for heating costs in the winter.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I was extremely poor in college and was able to live on under $10,000 a year. I had a couple roommates and was able to really go cheap on food and other stuff. I'd even have enough to go out on occasion.

My thoughts are that it can be done. Certainly having major life altering events such as a major illness causes huge problems. But if you are able to avoid those, you should be able to get by. I just think we've hit a point where we expect minimum wage to afford a nice cell phone and cable TV when these should be considered luxuries.

And you were a bachelor with roommates like you said, you also were young and healthy. You say major injury, but what if you just break your foot? There goes your job. What if you have a family?

You're right, under your circumstances if everything always goes 100% according to plan and is 100% ideal (no family, no injury, etc...) it can be done. But life generally doesn't work like that.

[Radii]

My sister manages a dominos, I'm fairly sure that the health plan she has access to would cost her between $150-$250/mo as a single person, I forget the exact amount. She is obviously in a better situation as a manager, but its the same plan that the min. wage staff is offered if they hang around long enough and become eligible. The plans available to her were not very good either, with $30 office copays and $2k deductibles.

Three years ago working full time at a tech company I paid less per month for better health coverage for me+spouse.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

you'll be eating rice and beans every night too. and lord forbid your water or power goes out in your apartment...you're screwed.

college is different than life.

You can eat a lot more than that. Food is cheap if you play the game right.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

You can eat a lot more than that. Food is cheap if you play the game right.

well i was exaggerating, but eating massively unhealthy (ie off the dollar menu everyday) will result in malnutrition and health problems that will have you end up in the hospital and thus bankrupt you completely also

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

i'm not sure i get what you mean about what we expect minimum wage to afford...

I just feel like our expectations for what a minimum standard of life is much higher than it needs to be. I feel like people believe that cell phones, air conditioning and cable TV should be things we all have.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I just feel like our expectations for what a minimum standard of life is much higher than it needs to be. I feel like people believe that cell phones, air conditioning and cable TV should be things we all have.

i don't think so.

maybe the middle-class feels that way, but i think if you went out there and asked people living close to the poverty line they wouldn't feel those were things they should be "entitled" to or should defiantly be able to afford. I'm also not sure how you can make such a blanket generalization, especially since you clearly are not currently lacking any of those things. Upon what do you base this feeling?

[Danny]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I just feel like our expectations for what a minimum standard of life is much higher than it needs to be. I feel like people believe that cell phones, air conditioning and cable TV should be things we all have.

I just think you're assuming everyone under this scenario everyone is a single, young, healthy, male.

Also, making what you said leaves 0 room for things to go wrong. And things do go wrong.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

well i was exaggerating, but eating massively unhealthy (ie off the dollar menu everyday) will result in malnutrition and health problems that will have you end up in the hospital and thus bankrupt you completely also

I think eating is overblown. I'll take the points on health care costs and such, but you can really live cheap on food and not eat that bad. I did it for a couple years and still hate paying a lot for food.

Loaf of generic bread + jar of peanut butter + jar of jelly = 10 sandwiches for maybe $5. You can buy big bags of brown rice and frozen vegetables for next to nothing. Eggs are relatively cheap and can be a quick meal for under $1. Cans of soup, beans, or veggies are relatively cheap. Generic noodles and a jar of generic pasta sauce is cheap. There are a lot of ways to eat somewhat healthy for somewhat cheap.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I think eating is overblown. I'll take the points on health care costs and such, but you can really live cheap on food and not eat that bad. I did it for a couple years and still hate paying a lot for food.

Loaf of generic bread + jar of peanut butter + jar of jelly = 10 sandwiches for maybe $5. You can buy big bags of brown rice and frozen vegetables for next to nothing. Eggs are relatively cheap and can be a quick meal for under $1. Cans of soup, beans, or veggies are relatively cheap. Generic noodles and a jar of generic pasta sauce is cheap. There are a lot of ways to eat somewhat healthy for somewhat cheap.

fair enough

loaf of bread + jar of peanut butter was one of my staples when i was working at starbucks for dinners there. throw the bread in the fridge and i've got 10 days worth of dinners right there

[Danny]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I think eating is overblown. I'll take the points on health care costs and such, but you can really live cheap on food and not eat that bad. I did it for a couple years and still hate paying a lot for food.

Loaf of generic bread + jar of peanut butter + jar of jelly = 10 sandwiches for maybe $5. You can buy big bags of brown rice and frozen vegetables for next to nothing. Eggs are relatively cheap and can be a quick meal for under $1. Cans of soup, beans, or veggies are relatively cheap. Generic noodles and a jar of generic pasta sauce is cheap. There are a lot of ways to eat somewhat healthy for somewhat cheap.

This is one point I agree with you on. I eat a pretty good amount of food, but you could easily eat for under $100 a month for one person and not eat unhealthy. Find a ethnic grocery store to buy fruits and vegetables from (about 1/3 t o a 1/4 the price of Ralphs/Vons), then buy cheap other stuff or clip coupons.

[Danny]

And even with the good amount of a food I eat, I'd say my wife and I only spend around $300 a month on food. If we had to, we could cut them down to under $200, but it would be very bare bones.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Danny

This is one point I agree with you on. I eat a pretty good amount of food, but you could easily eat for under $100 a month for one person and not eat unhealthy. Find a ethnic grocery store to buy fruits and vegetables from (about 1/3 t o a 1/4 the price of Ralphs/Vons), then buy cheap other stuff or clip coupons.

i'm generally a cheap eater too and hate paying a ton for food.

[DaddyTorgo]

you could probably eat for like 2 weeks on a whole chicken as a single person, and if you know how to break it down...add some frozen veggies and rice in for a soup and you're good for even more

[Danny]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

i'm generally a cheap eater too and hate paying a ton for food.

When I worked at Vons, it pained me to see how a large percentage of the people with food stamps handled spending their money.

[k0ruptr]

If you have your renting a room (ie roommates), instead of a house, this can be done easily, and still live decently. If your renting an actual house, well then your screwed.

[k0ruptr]

Originally Posted by Danny

This is one point I agree with you on. I eat a pretty good amount of food, but you could easily eat for under $100 a month for one person and not eat unhealthy. Find a ethnic grocery store to buy fruits and vegetables from (about 1/3 t o a 1/4 the price of Ralphs/Vons), then buy cheap other stuff or clip coupons.

not to mention farmers markets.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

i don't think so.

maybe the middle-class feels that way, but i think if you went out there and asked people living close to the poverty line they wouldn't feel those were things they should be "entitled" to or should defiantly be able to afford. I'm also not sure how you can make such a blanket generalization, especially since you clearly are not currently lacking any of those things. Upon what do you base this feeling?

We are setting up government programs for some of these things. We pay fees on our phone bills for programs like Lifeline. Our tax dollars go toward programs that help pay air conditioning bills. We've also had bills on the table to force cable companies into changing how they are allowed to bill people in an effort to make it more accessible for lower income households.

That to me is a change in what we consider bare necessities.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by k0ruptr

If you have your renting a room (ie roommates), instead of a house, this can be done easily, and still live decently. If your renting an actual house, well then your screwed.

Also depends on location. I am in Los Angeles and even a really crappy apartment in a bad neighborhood costs $700 a month.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I just think we've hit a point where we expect minimum wage to afford a nice cell phone and cable TV when these should be considered luxuries.

Are you really going to begrudge someone on minimum wage a cell phone and cable TV? I know it's sadly unrealistic to pay absolutely everybody in this country a living wage, but I don't think anybody who works 40 hours a week should be expected to live in poverty and without any luxuries entirely. While I can grasp why you may think a cell phone and cable TV qualify as luxuries, I can't grasp why exactly minimum wage workers shouldn't be allowed any luxuries? If someone makes the minimum wage, does everybody who doesn't get to decide what is appropriate for them to spend it on?

[k0ruptr]

also I'm not sure how it works in the mainland, but from my experience here in Hawaii, It's actually the minimum wage jobs that give you 40+ hours of work , and the ones that pay more that cut your hours to less.

[k0ruptr]

Originally Posted by Danny

Also depends on location. I am in Los Angeles and even a really crappy apartment in a bad neighborhood costs $700 a month.

And I look at 700 a month as Cheap! apartments / houses here are closer to 900-1000 a month for crappy places.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by k0ruptr

also I'm not sure how it works in the mainland, but from my experience here in Hawaii, It's actually the minimum wage jobs that give you 40+ hours of work , and the ones that pay more that cut your hours to less.

Often companies will give you the amount of hours right below where they have to give you benefits.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by k0ruptr

And I look at 700 a month as Cheap! apartments / houses here are closer to 900-1000 a month for crappy places.

I'm willing to bet the $900 place in Hawaii is a lot better than the $700 place in Los Angeles

[k0ruptr]

Originally Posted by Danny

Often companies will give you the amount of hours right below where they have to give you benefits.

this is absolutely true, and how it works where I'm at for a lot of companies.

[k0ruptr]

Originally Posted by Danny

I'm willing to bet the $900 place in Hawaii is a lot better than the $700 place in Los Angeles

yea your probably right about that...

[stevew]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

We are setting up government programs for some of these things. We pay fees on our phone bills for programs like Lifeline. Our tax dollars go toward programs that help pay air conditioning bills. We've also had bills on the table to force cable companies into changing how they are allowed to bill people in an effort to make it more accessible for lower income households.

That to me is a change in what we consider bare necessities.

I agree with you. I was thinking when I was mowing my grass. Back in the day the poor would garden or grow food...basically try to exist. It had to suck back then, and I'm sure a lot of people died.

Now it's basically better to be poor than working poor. Poor will get all manner of breaks on everything like health care, food stamps, heating bills, electric bills, rent, and probably even transportation.

If you make like 40K as a family of 4 you're not getting any of that stuff, you have to pay for everything. Which is basically the way it should be.

Regardless, the system is fucked.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

fair enough

loaf of bread + jar of peanut butter was one of my staples when i was working at starbucks for dinners there. throw the bread in the fridge and i've got 10 days worth of dinners right there

I worked at Starbucks too back in the day. Taking home a couple bagels at night was always a nice breakfast the next morning.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by stevew

I agree with you. I was thinking when I was mowing my grass. Back in the day the poor would garden or grow food...basically try to exist. It had to suck back then, and I'm sure a lot of people died.

Now it's basically better to be poor than working poor. Poor will get all manner of breaks on everything like health care, food stamps, heating bills, electric bills, rent, and probably even transportation.

If you make like 40K as a family of 4 you're not getting any of that stuff, you have to pay for everything. Which is basically the way it should be.

Regardless, the system is fucked.

This is true, there are a lot of people and families out there who are working extremely hard to still barely get by (and sometimes not) and those that take advantage of government programs and are not being a functioning member of society.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by k0ruptr

And I look at 700 a month as Cheap! apartments / houses here are closer to 900-1000 a month for crappy places.

I was really surprised at the "Homeless" communities on some of the beaches in Hawaii and was told some people chose to live that way, basically setting up tents and using nearby public showers and restrooms.

I was talking to the guide about it on one of our stops and he said quite a few people that have tents set up on the beach work minimum wage jobs that don't have any stress or entail any real skills and surf. Food is their only real overhead and he told me he knew a few that did quite well living like that. I found this all very interesting, as on the mainland you usually don't find people that are homeless by choice.

But in keeping with the theme of the thread, looking at the way these "beach" people as the guide called them live, it is not only feasible there but actually preferred in their situation.

[RainMaker]

I think everyone could learn a thing or two from the migrant workers who come up from Mexico and other countries every year. I rememember working in a factory in the Summer at 20 and these guys lived in a dumpy house for cheap rent. They grew a ton of tomatoes and peppers in the backyard and would basically bring in a tortilla stuffed with stuff and beans everyday for lunch. I can't imagine they were spending over $20 a week in food. They were extremely frugal and never bought a snack out of the machine or went out for fast food like everyone else.