47% of American Households Don't Pay Income Tax

[CraigSca]

Do you?

[Edward64]

Just submitted online last night. Yes.

[Radii]

Knowing what I do about FOFC's demographics, I would be shocked to see the honest 'no' votes here reach 10%, even knowing that we have some students and unfortunately unemployed amongst us.

[JediKooter]

I do. Not sure how I'm going to be able to pay this year if I don't find a job though...

[digamma]

Somewhat misleading as well, as the average worker is going to see Social Security and Medicare taken out of their paycheck and not distinguish that to be a distinct tax from "federal income tax."

[bulletsponge]

i do, just figured out how much

[SirFozzie]

Here's something interesting.. does this mean that they get ALL their federal income tax back as part of a refund.. or that they do not have to pay any further income tax when they file?

[CU Tiger]

I pay my share as a business owner and again as an individual...and then again another share because the gov't thinks I can....

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Here's something interesting.. does this mean that they get ALL their federal income tax back as part of a refund.. or that they do not have to pay any further income tax when they file?

The article makes it clear that after deductions they have NO TAX BURDEN...IOW everything they paid in as federal income tax is refunded and then some in certain cases.

[Swaggs]

Does this include retirees?

[SteveMax58]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

Does this include retirees?

That's a good question. I would sure think so in order to get to 47%.

[Drake]

I clicked the wrong button, so that's one less no vote.

[molson]

I voted yes, but the first-time homeowner's tax credit is going to wipe out my entire tax liability for 2009. But I think in the spirit of the poll, I should still vote yes.

Edit: Actually, reading the articles about this 47%, I would be included in that number for 2009, because that % includes those whose liability is wiped out by credits.

It is interesting though, that (according to these articles), a family of four with two kids making $50k will pay no federal income taxes in 2009. I make a little more than that and live alone. It's kind of silly that someone in my position doesn't have to pay a penny in income taxes.

[Autumn]

I voted yes, but for the past few years I would have been a no. Our child credits and earned income credits wiped out any self employment tax we had, but we're earning more now.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by molson

I voted yes, but the first-time homeowner's tax credit is going to wipe out my entire tax liability for 2009. But I think in the spirit of the poll, I should still vote yes.

Edit: Actually, reading the articles about this 47%, I would be included in that number for 2009, because that % includes those whose liability is wiped out by credits.

It is interesting though, that (according to these articles), a family of four with two kids making $50k will pay no federal income taxes in 2009. I make a little more than that and live alone. It's kind of silly that someone in my position doesn't have to pay a penny in income taxes.

Someone "in your position" does pay a penny in income taxes. Someone with a family of four making $50k does - that's a HUGE difference. You're talking about adding 3 more people to support on that same income.

[Apathetic Lurker]

Voted NO

Obama will be be givin' us some dinero this year..A LOT of dinero....We are talking Spitzer hooker kind of cash....with a bit left over for lots of beer and vodka....and chips


family of three

1 money grubbing little beastie teenrager
1 wife:working
1 old fat white guy: worked 3 months last year..rest of time on medical disability
1 whiny-ass mini shnauzer
1 brand new house

[Cringer]

Didn't pay any last year (in fact it worked out that the government should owe us, but they haven't paid yet), and would be surprised to pay anything this year.

[GoldenEagle]

Originally Posted by wade moore

Someone "in your position" does pay a penny in income taxes. Someone with a family of four making $50k does - that's a HUGE difference. You're talking about adding 3 more people to support on that same income.

I think what he is saying is that he is not paying any income taxes this year. But he is making the argument that someone in his position should be paying taxes.

I got hit with a pretty big tax bill this year, but that is to be expected. No kiddos yet.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by molson

I voted yes, but the first-time homeowner's tax credit is going to wipe out my entire tax liability for 2009. But I think in the spirit of the poll, I should still vote yes.

Edit: Actually, reading the articles about this 47%, I would be included in that number for 2009, because that % includes those whose liability is wiped out by credits.

It is interesting though, that (according to these articles), a family of four with two kids making $50k will pay no federal income taxes in 2009. I make a little more than that and live alone. It's kind of silly that someone in my position doesn't have to pay a penny in income taxes.

Originally Posted by GoldenEagle

I think what he is saying is that he is not paying any income taxes this year. But he is making the argument that someone in his position should be paying taxes.

I got hit with a pretty big tax bill this year, but that is to be expected. No kiddos yet.

Er, he specifically said he voted yes - he is paying taxes. Then he specifically made the argument that according to the article someone with his income (~$50k) with a family of four would pay no federal income tax in 2009.

I didn't think there was a lot of mystery in what he said personally.

[MacroGuru]

I am expecting to pay this year...but my accountant will let me know this week.

Last year was unique, I paid one state, got a refund from another and broke even with the federal...my losses I had last year, I don't have this year.

[Doug5984]

I didn't read the entire article that I had seen talking about this the other day but I think what they mean when they say don't pay any federal tax isn't they break even at the end of the year- it's that they have 0 tax liability, like no withholdings and owe nothing. If you withheld 20k, made 50k then yeah you will get a lot back, but it's your own money you were letting uncle sam hold. Your tax liability would still be a few thoussand - and that is not counting social security & Medicare

[Flame Eater]

With tax credits, we actually MADE money on the Federal government this year! Typically, we pay though.

[JonInMiddleGA]

According to this AP article the 47% includes "About 47 percent will pay no federal income taxes at all for 2009. Either their incomes were too low, or they qualified for enough credits, deductions and exemptions to eliminate their liability. That's according to projections by the Tax Policy Center, a Washington research organization."

I read that as "those who had 0 tax liability remaining after all the figuring was done", which would mean a 100% refund if they paid anything in at all. It does not appear to be including those who simply don't have to write an additional check to cover insufficient withholding.

[molson]

Originally Posted by wade moore

Er, he specifically said he voted yes - he is paying taxes. Then he specifically made the argument that according to the article someone with his income (~$50k) with a family of four would pay no federal income tax in 2009.

I didn't think there was a lot of mystery in what he said personally.

I have no idea what your point is, I just think a single person making more than $50k should pay more than zero income taxes. I suppose this homebuyer's credit thing is a special exception. And I'm also surprised that a family of four making more than 50k pays zero income taxes. But I'm not comparing my situation to the family in any way. I'm just surprised that neither situation incurs any tax liability in 2009.

I did vote yes, because I "pay income taxes", every year, but in 2009, my tax liability will be 0 (I'm actually making a profit off of my taxes, because you get the full $8,000 homebuyer tax credit even if you didn't otherwise owe $8,000 in taxes that year). In 2010, I'll be paying income taxes again.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by molson

I have no idea what your point is, I just think a single person making more than $50k should pay more than zero income taxes. I suppose this homebuyer's credit thing is a special exception. And I'm also surprised that a family of four making more than 50k pays zero income taxes. But I'm not comparing my situation to the family in any way. I'm just surprised that neither situation incurs any tax liability in 2009.

I did vote yes, because I "pay income taxes", every year, but in 2009, my tax liability will be 0 (I'm actually making a profit off of my taxes, because you get the full $8,000 homebuyer tax credit even if you didn't otherwise owe $8,000 in taxes that year). In 2010, I'll be paying income taxes again.

But you shouldn't vote yes when the stat used is for this year. Because of the stimulus tax breaks and the home buyer credit a lot of people that would normally pay federal income taxes won't this year.

I'll pay next year, but this year I get to finish using my adoption tax credit and have zero federal income tax liability.

edit: This is just another example of how people see the "freeloaders" as others.

[larrymcg421]

I made $35,000 last year and still had a tax liability.

[cschex]

I was a no vote, between working for a non-profit, wife in school and the toddler we got some money back in credits.

[molson]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

But you shouldn't vote yes when the stat used is for this year. Because of the stimulus tax breaks and the home buyer credit a lot of people that would normally pay federal income taxes won't this year.

I'll pay next year, but this year I get to finish using my adoption tax credit and have zero federal income tax liability.

edit: This is just another example of how people see the "freeloaders" as others.

The poll just says "do you pay income taxes?" I do generally, but tried to explain the exception of this year in my post.

It will be interesting to see what happens to real estate values after the homebuyers' tax credit ends. It really is a ridiculous deal. If you can call an inflated tax credit a "deal". It's certainly the only reason I was in the market when I was. So the stimulus worked on me in that sense, so I'm not sure of the government's ROI, at least in my individual case.

And from what I've read in these articles (after I answered the poll), 47% is a higher number for this year, but a substantial portion of people are paying any income taxes any year.

[flere-imsaho]

We'll be paying plenty of tax this year, even with the kiddo deduction and seeing if we can get some sort of deduction for dependent care (it's with the accountant now).

I'm more annoyed that we can't contribute to our Roth IRAs anymore (true for the past few years) than the amount of tax we'll pay.

Well, with the exception that I resent the money Cook County (IL) takes from me each year, but that's not related to federal.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by molson

I have no idea what your point is, I just think a single person making more than $50k should pay more than zero income taxes. I suppose this homebuyer's credit thing is a special exception. And I'm also surprised that a family of four making more than 50k pays zero income taxes. But I'm not comparing my situation to the family in any way. I'm just surprised that neither situation incurs any tax liability in 2009.

I did vote yes, because I "pay income taxes", every year, but in 2009, my tax liability will be 0 (I'm actually making a profit off of my taxes, because you get the full $8,000 homebuyer tax credit even if you didn't otherwise owe $8,000 in taxes that year). In 2010, I'll be paying income taxes again.

Yeah, I didn't understand what you were explaining tbh.

I think that a family of 4, with $50k total income not paying taxes is ok by me - especially if by some miracle they are homeowners.

A single person with $50k income and an 8k tax credit - eh.. not sure that that is so bad depending on your other credits.

Where is the line to you? I mean, is someone with $25k and a kid not paying taxes ok? If so, why isn't $50k for parents and two kids?

I'm not sure where you draw the line, but based on living on $35k with no kids, $50k for a family of 4 having no liability isn't completely shocking to me.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Apathetic Lurker

Voted NO

Obama will be be givin' us some dinero this year..A LOT of dinero....We are talking Spitzer hooker kind of cash....with a bit left over for lots of beer and vodka....and chips


family of three

1 money grubbing little beastie teenrager
1 wife:working
1 old fat white guy: worked 3 months last year..rest of time on medical disability
1 whiny-ass mini shnauzer
1 brand new house

Not sure if it applies here, but in general- just because you're getting a refund doesn't mean you're paying income tax. You and your wife were presumably paying in all year. Unless you're getting back every buck you paid, then you're still paying income tax. You just lent Uncle Sam some of your cash interest free for the year, you nice guy

SI

[RedKingGold]

Well, if you say you haven't, you're a prude. If you say you have you're a slut. It's a trap. You want to but you can't, and when you do you wish you didn't, right?

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Not sure if it applies here, but in general- just because you're getting a refund doesn't mean you're paying income tax. You and your wife were presumably paying in all year. Unless you're getting back every buck you paid, then you're still paying income tax. You just lent Uncle Sam some of your cash interest free for the year, you nice guy

SI

Actually, he's getting back thousands more than he paid in. Earned Income Child credit and the New Home Tax credit are both credits that will pay you over and above any refund of the money you already paid. There was a couple of years I got a few thousand in EIC without paying a dime. He's probably looking at somewhere in the neighbourhood of 8 to 10 grand. Possibily more (the house credit goes up to like 8 alone. EIC 3k per kid or so.)

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by wade moore

Yeah, I didn't understand what you were explaining tbh.

I think that a family of 4, with $50k total income not paying taxes is ok by me - especially if by some miracle they are homeowners.

A single person with $50k income and an 8k tax credit - eh.. not sure that that is so bad depending on your other credits.

Where is the line to you? I mean, is someone with $25k and a kid not paying taxes ok? If so, why isn't $50k for parents and two kids?

I'm not sure where you draw the line, but based on living on $35k with no kids, $50k for a family of 4 having no liability isn't completely shocking to me.

I don't jive with this notion that we need to give people with kids all these credits. It's their choice to have children and expenses come along with it. I understand why it's done, it just seems ridiculous to me. Someone puts a much bigger burden on the resources we use and pays in less for it.

[Masked]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I don't jive with this notion that we need to give people with kids all these credits. It's their choice to have children and expenses come along with it. I understand why it's done, it just seems ridiculous to me. Someone puts a much bigger burden on the resources we use and pays in less for it.

To take an opposing view - more kids (and young, working age immigrants) would go a long way to fixing both Social Security and Medicare.

[sterlingice]

Except that we don't have jobs for a whole lot of them

SI

[Terps]

I get paid in cash, so that's a no.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Masked

To take an opposing view - more kids (and young, working age immigrants) would go a long way to fixing both Social Security and Medicare.

If you want to make it a ponzi scheme.

[Mac Howard]

We're always being told similar stuff here - that a significant percentage of the population pays no net tax. In fact, when you ask if they've included things like sales taxes, car/road taxes, fuel taxes, house purchase taxes etc then they admit "Ah no, we can't estimate them so we don't include them". Nevertheless the media (particularly right wing media) like to promote the idea of too many people not paying taxes when the true number is significantly less that quoted.

[Apathetic Lurker]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Actually, he's getting back thousands more than he paid in. Earned Income Child credit and the New Home Tax credit are both credits that will pay you over and above any refund of the money you already paid. There was a couple of years I got a few thousand in EIC without paying a dime. He's probably looking at somewhere in the neighbourhood of 8 to 10 grand. Possibily more (the house credit goes up to like 8 alone. EIC 3k per kid or so.)

little over 8k...It would be a lot more but my dang royalties throw a wrench into my mad loot from uncle Sam......

[Greyroofoo]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I don't jive with this notion that we need to give people with kids all these credits. It's their choice to have children and expenses come along with it. I understand why it's done, it just seems ridiculous to me. Someone puts a much bigger burden on the resources we use and pays in less for it.

[Apathetic Lurker]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I don't jive with this notion that we need to give people with kids all these credits. It's their choice to have children and expenses come along with it. I understand why it's done, it just seems ridiculous to me. Someone puts a much bigger burden on the resources we use and pays in less for it.

Eventually it evens out..Right now we might pay less, but eventually these kids we are attempting to raise will be the ones paying into the system to help support you while you become the bigger burden on the resources whilst paying less for it....

[lordscarlet]

Someone posted this link on facebook and it made me think of this thread: 47% of Tea Partiers Pay No Federal Income Taxes! - Business - The Atlantic

[molson]

Originally Posted by lordscarlet

Someone posted this link on facebook and it made me think of this thread: 47% of Tea Partiers Pay No Federal Income Taxes! - Business - The Atlantic

I don't think there's a minimum salary requirement for someone to be able to have the opinion that the goverment should be run more efficiently.

The argument in that article is just weird. The real spirit of the "tea party" movement (which has sadly tainted a smaller but signficant movement during the '08 election), is federal spending/influence, not oppressive taxes. I'm sure most of the sane tea party-esque people would be fine with a moderate flat tax that would require half of them to chip in more. I don't think (the sane ones) are arguing that more people should have zero tax liability, as that articles suggests.

[JPhillips]

Shouldn't people who think we shouldn't pay as much in taxes be happy that so many people don't have to pay federal income taxes?

[molson]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Shouldn't people who think we shouldn't pay as much in taxes be happy that so many people don't have to pay federal income taxes?

I think they'd be happy with the same amount of income taxes (zero, for many of them), if the federal government spent less.

The tea party thing has done a tremendous job of making efficient government seem like a fringe idea. Either the Deomcratic party lucked into this, or they have some special operatives that set the tea party up from the ground level.

[Pumpy Tudors]

I think half the people in this thread are arguing that the sky is blue, and the other half are arguing that the Blackhawks are going to win the Stanley Cup.

I paid taxes, and I only made $39.95 last year plus shipping.

[Marc Vaughan]

I've paid tax each year since emigrating - tbh I don't feel hard done by doing so and I hope the money I pay goes towards providing useful things for society.

To be frank I'd be willing to pay a heavier tax burden if it meant that everyone in the country had decent health cover etc. ... but then I'm used to England so have been continually bemused by the pittance people pay in taxes here (and even more so that they complain about it despite the fact the percentage paid is fairly small compared to European countries).

[path12]

Economic Scene - Yes, 47% of Households Owe No Taxes. Look Closer. - NYTimes.com

Digs into the original meme a little bit, I thought it was interesting.

[SteveMax58]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Shouldn't people who think we shouldn't pay as much in taxes be happy that so many people don't have to pay federal income taxes?

I don't think the majority of "average" people have as much of a problem with people who pay no income tax, as they do with the (deliberate imo) obfuscation of tax revenues & and the subsequent methods the government uses to collect them.

Couple that with the fact that collectively we have to then pay people to collect & enforce laws of these taxes...all which adds no efficiency or increased quality of life for the country(with the exception of those collecting/enforcing or receiving)...and the view is that it is not much different than paying people to dig holes just to fill them back in.

Then...add in the fact that these same entities that decide such things for the entire country also seem to believe that the same recklessness that got us to the brink of fiscal armageddon also continue to do the same thing with no end in sight...and I'm not sure why more people dont see this as something to stop playing partisan BS talking point shootout and actually begin "paying as you go". So, if you want to increase the deficit THIS year, you must raise tax revenue THIS year to justify.