Law School (Ping all lawyers and other folks who know them)

[Noop]

Alright after pretty much putting off law school for a year I have decided to enroll this fall. So if anyone has some advice for a OL(term used for people like me who aren't in law school but will be in the fall) such as prep, advice, guidance or whatever let me know.

I hope this gets some traction but if not I might have to start harassing the lawyers I know of on this board. Molson, Ksryup and who else?

[Ksyrup]

Have you already chosen a school?

Best thing you could do is familiarize yourself with cases, statutes, and the general legal process just so you have some baseline for what you're going to do. It's hard enough to dive right in and have to learn/understand the law they are teaching, but when you tack on all the other stuff, it makes it that much harder.

Work your ass off for the first year. In my experience (granted, I graduated 15 years ago...[holy shit!]), grades really only matter first semester or so. If you make top 10% or so, you'll get all the interviews unless you have some life/work experience that a firm might be interested in (for instance, we had a doctor and an former airline pilot who got some big-time interest from firms). After that, the old adage of C=JD is pretty much the way it works.

[Noop]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Have you already chosen a school?

Best thing you could do is familiarize yourself with cases, statutes, and the general legal process just so you have some baseline for what you're going to do. It's hard enough to dive right in and have to learn/understand the law they are teaching, but when you tack on all the other stuff, it makes it that much harder.

Work your ass off for the first year. In my experience (granted, I graduated 15 years ago...[holy shit!]), grades really only matter first semester or so. If you make top 10% or so, you'll get all the interviews unless you have some life/work experience that a firm might be interested in (for instance, we had a doctor and an former airline pilot who got some big-time interest from firms). After that, the old adage of C=JD is pretty much the way it works.

I have chosen the school however for the sake of anonymity I perfer not to say but it is a T50 school if that helps. I will say that Minnesota made one hell of an impression on me but the distance and cold were big negatives. I have heard that I should read "Getting to Maybe" and do LEEWS.

As for familiarizing myself with statues and such do you have any books you can recommend?

[Ksyrup]

Are you staying in-state? I'm sure there are books out there to prep for law school, but I'm not familiar with them. Honestly, I'd figure out what state you expect to practice in and try to familiarize yourself with their statutes, the nomenclature, the court structure, government, and read some cases just to try to learn a little bit about how to read a case before you get 5-6 classes worth of case reading assignments the first week of school.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Hey, Noop.

I'm a lawyer and am more than happy to help as well. I owe you for all of your kick-ass .gifs and what not.

Ksyrup's advice is good. I am 11 years removed from law school now and about 14 years removed from when I was entering it. I don't recall doing anything to prepare, though it couldn't hurt. I felt pretty lost the first couple of months.

I am not sure if reading statutes is really going to help. If you are attending a school that has a bit of a national reputation you aren't likely going to be focusing on any particular state statutes. Your typical first year course load wont be very statute heavy either from what I recall.

I think familiarizing yourself with some the language is a good way to go, but again, I didn't do anything so there's nothing I could recommend. There are a number of outline type guides out there that cover first year courses - criminal law, property, contracts, constitutional law, etc. - so looking over those could help, but, at least for me, outside of the classroom I would have trouble putting them into context.

The first year is hard. It's by far the hardest year. Like Ksyrup said, learning how to read cases is a bit of an art. It takes some time at first. The good thing is, however, is that a case that might take you an hour or so to read in your first year will only take you 10-15 minutes by your third year.

First year is also critical for things like law review and even summer internships and jobs. The best recommendation I could make is totally clear your schedule of almost everything. Sure, give yourself time to relax and have fun, but if you can avoid it, don't work at all during your first year and really bear down. A strong first year really goes a long, long way.

The legal market has recovered somewhat after the last couple of years, but it still remains soft. It's a much different world now. It used to be so long as you were at a top school and did well enough, not even great, you'd almost certainly be guaranteed a great firm job (if that's the path you chose) coming out of school. That's not so much the case anymore, but big firms are still hiring and if you do well there will be a job for you.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

The first year is hard. It's by far the hardest year. Like Ksyrup said, learning how to read cases is a bit of an art. It takes some time at first. The good thing is, however, is that a case that might take you an hour or so to read in your first year will only take you 10-15 minutes by your third year.

First year is also critical for things like law review and even summer internships and jobs.

I'd highlight those two things. In particular - take that hour (or longer) to read that case. Reading old supreme court opinions for the first time and understanding them is whole new kettle of fish, there's nothing in your previous education that can really prepare you for it. I went a little overboard on the various study aids/case summaries/etc. Professors have mixed feelings on those but I think it helped me a lot to get the bigger picture of everything. But ya, the point was, take the extra hours to understand. Appellate law is really a language that you need to learn, and that's the language that American law schools generally use to teach law.

And two, the most important thing after your grades is getting that 1L summer job/internship. Those are very competitive these days. I spent many, many hours researching and applying to various firms and government offices. As it turned out, both my 1L and 2L summers I got (low) paying summer government jobs that didn't even exist before I pitched myself and what I would do for them. They were tremendous experiences and they got my foot in the door. I think you said that you were more interested in private/big law kind of stuff - I don't know much about that job market, but I think the point is the same - really commit to getting the best spot you can over the summers, whether that means creating your own opportunity, or aggressively preparing for the OCI process.

And I guess I'd add - I think it helps to, as much as possible, have that idea of what you want to do and where you want to practice. Ideally, you're going to school where you want to practice. If you're involved in law school, have summer gigs in that area, are meeting attorneys, etc, you'll be a known quantity in that legal community and that helps a lot....Though - it's not a fixed rule - I had another theory at one time that, depending on the size of the law school and the number and quality of nearby law schools, it was best to get away from that glut and gain your experience in places that don't have such an endless supply of cheap legal labor (for me, Alaska, and then Southern Idaho.) So there's no one right plan - but it helps to have a plan, I think. If you're going to do the straight OCI/big-law thing, that's going to be brutal and competitive - you really have to kick everyone else's ass and have that mindset early. I honestly didn't have the stomach/drive for that so I went more for the stealth job hunting route.

[JeeberD]

Originally Posted by Noop

As for familiarizing myself with statues and such do you have any books you can recommend?

This one should help...





Sorry, I couldn't resist

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

I am not sure if reading statutes is really going to help. If you are attending a school that has a bit of a national reputation you aren't likely going to be focusing on any particular state statutes. Your typical first year course load wont be very statute heavy either from what I recall.

Yeah, I guess I agree with that, especially for the first year. Although, in first year wills/trusts and criminal procedure, they included a healthy dose of Florida-specific law, which included references to statutes and rules. As I went further in law school and started taking some Florida speciality courses, there was much more emphasis on statutes. And of course, I ended up clerking and then working as an attorney for a state governmental agency, which was all about the statutes.

[albionmoonlight]

Yeah--1L year (and the first semester thereof) is very important. That can't be said enough.

I would also say to not drown yourself in canned study-aids and outlines and the like. Your professor will be giving the exam--not the canned outline people. It is much more important to understand what the professor thinks about torts--in her language--than the outline. Not saying that those aids don't have a place. But your study time is finite, and most of it should be spent on the casebook and the lecture notes.

Also, wait to buy anything that you want/need as a study aid until your first week or so. Anything that the bookstore will be charging full price for, you can buy off a 2L or a 3L for a bargain basement price. It is a buyer's market for used study aids, law dictionaries, etc.

I also found two things particularly helpful in prepping for exams. First, I wrote up detailed outlines of my notes and used that outline to study. I did NOT just copy and paste the notes into an outline. I rewrote them. The process of having to go through my notes and rewrite them was hugely helpful--moreso than actually having the outline itself.

Finally, UNC kept copies of old exams in a database in the library. Not sure how common that is. If at all possible, try to see if you can (legally & ethically) get copies of the old exams from your professors. Some even came with model answers. This, again, was HUGELY helpful. Some professors are more interested in how well you know the rules. Some with how good you are at taking rules from one context and placing them in another. Some always through in a hypothetical "policy" question (i.e., what are the pros and cons of [legal policy X] and what are some possible avenues of reform). Knowing the style and focus on the person giving the exam is such a leg up.

Good luck!

[Noop]

Good advice all around gents. I am very interested in opening my own firm and eventually parlaying that into an empire (big dreamer I know). I have interest in criminal and real estate with the latter being the what I want to do with my firm/empire.

The comments about first year being important has been echoed by others and I happy to hear it is definitely true across the board. I would like to live in Florida if possible but if school takes me to New York or Washington D.C. (note I wish Georgetown wasn't so expensive) I would do it for a while then open my own thing.

I should graduate law school with very low debt (hurray for scholarships) and hopefully after working for a big firms have enough money to do my own thing. Who knows... I am just going in with the mindset that law school is a competition and networking is key.

One more question the exam is the only thing that matters correct? For those of you who are hiring partners does Law Review matter or do you prefer Moot Court?

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by Noop

One more question the exam is the only thing that matters correct? For those of you who are hiring partners does Law Review matter or do you prefer Moot Court?

In most classes, it is all about the exam. The syllabus will tell you if that is not the case.

And, in general Law Review is seen a most prestigious than Moot Court. Some people's mileage may vary on that, but that's the impression I got.

[Noop]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

In most classes, it is all about the exam. The syllabus will tell you if that is not the case.

And, in general Law Review is seen a most prestigious than Moot Court. Some people's mileage may vary on that, but that's the impression I got.

I suspected as much. When did you go to law school? Did you do any OL prep? If so can you share? Or if you heard anyone else who prepped.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Noop

Good advice all around gents. I am very interested in opening my own firm and eventually parlaying that into an empire (big dreamer I know). I have interest in criminal and real estate with the latter being the what I want to do with my firm/empire.

The comments about first year being important has been echoed by others and I happy to hear it is definitely true across the board. I would like to live in Florida if possible but if school takes me to New York or Washington D.C. (note I wish Georgetown wasn't so expensive) I would do it for a while then open my own thing.

I should graduate law school with very low debt (hurray for scholarships) and hopefully after working for a big firms have enough money to do my own thing. Who knows... I am just going in with the mindset that law school is a competition and networking is key.

One more question the exam is the only thing that matters correct? For those of you who are hiring partners does Law Review matter or do you prefer Moot Court?

Well, if your empire works out, perhaps I will join it at some point.

As for law review versus moot court. It really depends on the hiring partner and what you want to do. If you want to go into litigation, civil or criminal, Moot Court is great experience. Moot Court is less helpful if you want to do corporate or real estate, for example. Law Reveiw is generally solid and is definitely looked on favorably.

Neither are required. I didn't do either and got a job no problem. Then again, it was a different time when I was coming out and there were jobs a-plenty, so if the opportunity it there, take it.

[Noop]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Well, if your empire works out, perhaps I will join it at some point.

As for law review versus moot court. It really depends on the hiring partner and what you want to do. If you want to go into litigation, civil or criminal, Moot Court is great experience. Moot Court is less helpful if you want to do corporate or real estate, for example. Law Reveiw is generally solid and is definitely looked on favorably.

Neither are required. I didn't do either and got a job no problem. Then again, it was a different time when I was coming out and there were jobs a-plenty, so if the opportunity it there, take it.

It is definitely a sketchy job market right now especially with the overflow of lawyers now. In this process of learning about school I have tried to humble myself to realizing everyone else will be working just as hard as me. So things like Law Review, Moot Court or whatever might not even happen I just want to be above the median with hopes of cracking the top 10%.

When I get the empire off the ground and running (15 year plan after law school) I will give you a shout.

[Noop]

I do want to add that I am in between freaking out and feeling confident. I hope this is normal because it effects my coaching.

[stevew]

Is any of the LSAT stuff worth buying? I'm probably going to go to law school in 2 years when I finally graduate. I should have the grades and recommendations but want to make sure to nail the LSAT cause I'd prefer to get into (for example) Case Western instead of U of Akron.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by Noop

I suspected as much. When did you go to law school? Did you do any OL prep? If so can you share? Or if you heard anyone else who prepped.

99-02.

And I didn't really do any prep. I didn't have time--I was doing a volunteer year in Alaska and pretty much went right from that to law school.

I actually think that 0L prep of that nature is probably not super helpful, honestly. So much depends on your exams. And your exams depend on your professors. And before you can meet your professors, there is only so much you can do to help yourself.

Maybe the best prep would be to get all of your life in order (i.e. get your housing, finances, and transportation settled; figure out your routines vis a vis the grocery, etc.) before school so that you can focus on school 100% when you start. You don't want to be distracting yourself by having to wait for the cable guy to show up when you could have been doing all of that the weeks before. At a minimum, you could be using that time to get to know your classmates.

Oh, and, in life, I find the best "networking" happens when I am just trying to be friends with people. Whenever I have tried to "network," it has gone nowhere. The connections that have actually helped me professionally are people with whom I became friends who then happened to later be in a position to help me. YMMV.

[Noop]

Originally Posted by stevew

Is any of the LSAT stuff worth buying? I'm probably going to go to law school in 2 years when I finally graduate. I should have the grades and recommendations but want to make sure to nail the LSAT cause I'd prefer to get into (for example) Case Western instead of U of Akron.

The first time I took the LSAT I took it cold with no prep. Scored a 157 the next time I used Powerscore, Princeton Review and as many practice test as i can find and buy. I did this and crushed the LSAT with a score over 165. I know others may have told you this but make sure you do good on the LSAT. If you crush it you will be in line for scholarships which will allow you to leave school with zero to no debt. I think that is important considering that law school can accrue about 100k in debt for students.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Noop

I do want to add that I am in between freaking out and feeling confident. I hope this is normal because it effects my coaching.

This is completely normal. Exactly how I felt going in.

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Maybe the best prep would be to get all of your life in order (i.e. get your housing, finances, and transportation settled; figure out your routines vis a vis the grocery, etc.) before school so that you can focus on school 100% when you start. You don't want to be distracting yourself by having to wait for the cable guy to show up when you could have been doing all of that the weeks before. At a minimum, you could be using that time to get to know your classmates.

I totally agree with this. I didn't do any kind of prep work going into law school, but I had nothing else other than law school to deal with going in. It was my entire focus for the first semester and much of my focus during my second semester. I lived in the law school dorms my first year. It helped because it takes care of a lot of that, housing, finances, transportation, food, etc.). The downside was, however, that your world becomes for insular and the pressure can get silly, especially during finals times.

[Noop]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

99-02.

And I didn't really do any prep. I didn't have time--I was doing a volunteer year in Alaska and pretty much went right from that to law school.

I actually think that 0L prep of that nature is probably not super helpful, honestly. So much depends on your exams. And your exams depend on your professors. And before you can meet your professors, there is only so much you can do to help yourself.

Maybe the best prep would be to get all of your life in order (i.e. get your housing, finances, and transportation settled; figure out your routines vis a vis the grocery, etc.) before school so that you can focus on school 100% when you start. You don't want to be distracting yourself by having to wait for the cable guy to show up when you could have been doing all of that the weeks before. At a minimum, you could be using that time to get to know your classmates.

Oh, and, in life, I find the best "networking" happens when I am just trying to be friends with people. Whenever I have tried to "network," it has gone nowhere. The connections that have actually helped me professionally are people with whom I became friends who then happened to later be in a position to help me. YMMV.

I wish I could move before August but I have to finish up my AAU commitments. I have about 10 days to get settled in at my new place so hopefully I will be good to go with everything. I guess a benefit for me would be a tournament is being held near the school i am attending (hour and a half ride) and I will be able to check out the local scene.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Noop

It is definitely a sketchy job market right now especially with the overflow of lawyers now. In this process of learning about school I have tried to humble myself to realizing everyone else will be working just as hard as me. So things like Law Review, Moot Court or whatever might not even happen I just want to be above the median with hopes of cracking the top 10%.

It's good to try to be humble - law schools are under serious heat right now for lying about job placements and salary data, etc. And the thing with law school rankings - there's usually a super elite small handful of students at the top, and a bigger group of very smart, very motivated students who will fall anywhere in that top 50%, (but outside the top 5%). And while the rankings and evaluating of students is probably mostly fair and accurate - there's still some about randomness in how things ultimately shake out. You're not borrowing a ton, so this doesn't apply as much to you, but many students are taking huge loans and banking on big law, and that's just not going to materialize for most of them outside of the top 14 law schools. And for the ones that it does work out for - you have to really want to that lifestyle - 2k+ billing hours or whatever, etc. Some people can definitely pull off the life balance with that type of schedule, but I think a lot struggle with it.

[Ksyrup]

For 1L exam prep, it was helpful for us to break into 2-3 person outline groups and create outlines together. Not only were we able to better fill in the gaps we might have had in our notes with what others had in their notes, but during the process, the discussions we had over stuff we didn't quite understand were invaluable. It should go without saying, though, that you need to be supremely confident in the people you are working with. I was lucky to have a group of about 8 solid people I was good friends with, and we kinda broke out into our own little groups based mainly on which of us had the same professors.

There are probably outlines floating around for particular professors, too. I found those to be helpful as a supplement to what I was preparing. In 3L, there was one outline that was so well done, I only went to class 5 days and got an A. By that point, I was ready to leave school and all about clerking. At FSU, there is the legend of a guy who graduated a few years before me (early 90s) who spent his entire last semester of law school working in Miami. He came back for finals, passedf all of his classes, and graduated.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

there is the legend of a guy who graduated a few years before me (early 90s) who spent his entire last semester of law school working in Miami. He came back for finals, passedf all of his classes, and graduated.

Ha, I head about that legend, or some variation of it - I think on one of those sleazy law school message boards (autoadmit - I think it was called something else when I was in school). It's true though, if you get A's 1L year, you should be able to get A's in your sleep 3L year - you're much better off working on your career at that point (or even on your drinking beer career).

[britrock88]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

99-02.

And I didn't really do any prep. I didn't have time--I was doing a volunteer year in Alaska and pretty much went right from that to law school.

I actually think that 0L prep of that nature is probably not super helpful, honestly. So much depends on your exams. And your exams depend on your professors. And before you can meet your professors, there is only so much you can do to help yourself.

Maybe the best prep would be to get all of your life in order (i.e. get your housing, finances, and transportation settled; figure out your routines vis a vis the grocery, etc.) before school so that you can focus on school 100% when you start. You don't want to be distracting yourself by having to wait for the cable guy to show up when you could have been doing all of that the weeks before. At a minimum, you could be using that time to get to know your classmates.

Oh, and, in life, I find the best "networking" happens when I am just trying to be friends with people. Whenever I have tried to "network," it has gone nowhere. The connections that have actually helped me professionally are people with whom I became friends who then happened to later be in a position to help me. YMMV.

Trust everything AM tells you. He's a UNC law grad.

- UNC 3L

[Noop]

Originally Posted by britrock88

Trust everything AM tells you. He's a UNC law grad.

- UNC 3L

What did you do before law school any prep?

Question for you guys anyone do Law Review, Moot Court or graduated with latin honors?

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by britrock88

Trust everything AM tells you. He's a UNC law grad.

- UNC 3L

Cool. How are things over there? Who are the best professors? Bad profs? General mood vis a vis economic opportunity?

[lcjjdnh]

I wouldn't worry too much about preparing before law school. Getting to Maybe might be worth reading just to get a sense of what law school exams are like-they're much different than most people expect-but other than that, I don't think you'd really get much out of studying before school starts.

Likewise, I wouldn't bother with supplements too much. They can be helpful if there's a topic you really don't understand, but, for the most part, the information you need is in your book or the professor talked about in class. I found it much more helpful to work through any unclear material on my own instead of just going straight to a supplement.

In terms of exams, most of the advice throughout this thread seems right to me. Practice exam, as someone mentioned, are probably the most important thing to do. Learning the actual material isn't too difficult; sure, there are some tricky topics, but most of it is pretty straightforward. But for exams you need to do more than just regurgitate that information-you have to apply it to a new set of facts, which they don't necessarily show you how to do in class.

For jobs, 1L grades should likely be your top priority. How good your grades need to be depends on the school you attend. As will what you want to do after 1L summer. If you go to a top school and have good grades, your 1L summer job will be largely irrelevant for 2L summer (which is much more important for an offer after graduation). If that's not the case, hustling for a 1L job is probably a bit more important.

[lcjjdnh]

Oh, and as much as it's become a cliche, there is something to be said for the whole "thinking like a lawyer" concept. You need to grasp that goal of exams is usually to build good arguments for both sides of an issue. This requires thinking about the facts, the potential approaches the court could take, and analyzing the next set of questions for the potential routes the court could take.

People too often look for a "right" answer. But the point of most good exam questions is that they're filled with ambiguities. There is no right answer; the analysis is much more important than the conclusion.

[Noop]

Originally Posted by lcjjdnh

Oh, and as much as it's become a cliche, there is something to be said for the whole "thinking like a lawyer" concept. You need to grasp that goal of exams is usually to build good arguments for both sides of an issue. This requires thinking about the facts, the potential approaches the court could take, and analyzing the next set of questions for the potential routes the court could take.

People too often look for a "right" answer. But the point of most good exam questions is that they're filled with ambiguities. There is no right answer; the analysis is much more important than the conclusion.

Good info. I have read "Getting to Maybe" and they pretty much talk about this in the book. One thing I don't get is how to go about writing it in essay form. I guess I need to go online and find some model answers to see how to put it together.

[britrock88]

Originally Posted by Noop

What did you do before law school any prep?

Question for you guys anyone do Law Review, Moot Court or graduated with latin honors?

I tried to read Getting to Maybe (could've used the help). You've already done it, so I don't have to tell you that it's worthwhile. My advice would be to unwind so that you're ready to put in a solid effort getting the hang of the legal atmosphere your 1L year. If you're totally new to it (I wasn't), go hang out in a county courthouse for a day; if you're near a larger city or state capital, see if there is a federal district courthouse to sit in on, or a state/federal appellate court (if any hear arguments over the summer). That exposure makes lots of otherwise oblique concepts and terminology more relatable.

I'm on Moot Court... technically. I would have tried out for a journal except for a death in the family during the competition dates, and I didn't have the grades to skip the writing competition. So I went out for Moot Court, and ended up as the guy who writes the constitutional law problem for the competition we host. (Albion, if you knew someone who did that while you were at UNC, you feel my pain.) So I'm getting an experience somewhere between MC and LR, but only the 1 MC credit (as opposed to 2-5 for senior staffing or editing a journal). Journals are more prestigious, but if you want to litigate, MC or Trial Team is your most practical way to go.

To get around to AM's concern about attitudes vis a vis the economy in a roundabout way... I'm glad you're in a good situation -- not going into much debt at a T50 school. I don't know that I'd recommend law school in other circumstances. Then again, I have never been the type that was on fire for the law; I look at law school more practically as an advanced degree that is very broad in application.

For students on an individual basis, though, the top of our class still lands BigLaw jobs or prestigious public interest work easily. From there down, it's a matter of selectivity on the students' parts on what kind of gigs they land. I feel fortunate in having two fairly good-sounding summer experiences -- at a Court of Appeals and at a US Attorney's Office -- but that comes with the cost of not earning much of anything for my time or earning a job offer for post-graduation. I don't know whether to try to clerk (young, debt not an issue, like not having 60-80 hour weeks), or to get a full-time gig so I don't have to go through the search process 4 times in 4 years.

If I had 1L year to do again, I would pick up one commercial outline (by a professor of yours, if you're lucky), in any class, just to get a feel for what you're actually meant to get out of reading the cases and notes and problems. Once you feel comfortable with what I call the distillation process -- reading a case, whittling the case down to its essential rules, then imagining how those rules would apply in different fact situations -- you're golden.

[stevew]

Are tests handwritten or do you type answers in a computer? You're going to laugh but I basically have no handwriting skills anymore. My hand gets all cramped and stuff pretty quickly. It's a skill you lose over time I guess. I was out of school for like 16 years.

[lcjjdnh]

Computer.

[Noop]

Well today I received some interesting news. I was given a scholarship by a school I had eliminated due to distance and prestige. However this recent scholarship definitely has me rethinking things a bit. I wonder how much of a dick would I be to ask the school I am attending to match this?

Some details... it is a full scholly with the only stipulation being stay at least at the median. The current one I have requires I stay in the top 30% while that is not impossible I know this school has a lot of brilliant people. Maybe I can negoiate with my school to lower the requirement and add some money.

So would they look at me like a smuck for asking again?

[molson]

Originally Posted by Noop

Well today I received some interesting news. I was given a scholarship by a school I had eliminated due to distance and prestige. However this recent scholarship definitely has me rethinking things a bit. I wonder how much of a dick would I be to ask the school I am attending to match this?

Some details... it is a full scholly with the only stipulation being stay at least at the median. The current one I have requires I stay in the top 30% while that is not impossible I know this school has a lot of brilliant people. Maybe I can negoiate with my school to lower the requirement and add some money.

So would they look at me like a smuck for asking again?

The conditional merit scholarships are under a lot of heat lately, just an FYI:

Are Law Schools Deceiving Students by Offering Merit Scholarships? - Law Blog - WSJ

It sounds as if the scholarships you've been offered are conditioned on rank rather than grade, which I guess is better, but don't underestimate a law school's willingness to deceive you. If it's a true full scholarship if you stay in the top 50%, that's pretty tempting, as long as you're not going to far down the rankings to get it.

I wouldn't feel bad at all about asking a law school to improve their offer.

Edit: Those kinds of scholarships can definitely create great opportunities, I'm just saying to remember to think of your law school as a used car salesman. The hammer is going to fall on this stuff sooner or later but as long as you're aware of it and vigilant of it, it doesn't have to effect you.

[britrock88]

If the full ride is still T50, take it. Otherwise, negotiate with your original choice.

[JediKooter]

Sounds like your first test in becoming a lawyer...negotiate.

[stevew]

Is there a substantial advantage to being familiar with Latin? I was just going to take Spanish because I am familiar, but if there's an edge to being semi proficient with Latin I will probably look to take that instead.

[lcjjdnh]

I don't think so. Even if latin comes into play (and I can't really think of many, if any situations, where it has), I'd doubt knowing it would have any real correlation to making you successful. Others may disagree, but learning the law isn't the hard part of law school; it's learning how to spot issues in fact patterns and using the tools you've learned to analyze them.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by lcjjdnh

I don't think so. Even if latin comes into play (and I can't really think of many, if any situations, where it has), I'd doubt knowing it would have any real correlation to making you successful. Others may disagree, but learning the law isn't the hard part of law school; it's learning how to spot issues in fact patterns and using the tools you've learned to analyze them.

I agree. Any Latin phrase that you encounter can be googled and translated in about 3 seconds. What matters is what the actual legal doctrine is, not what the terms mean in Latin.

[Ksyrup]

...although if you're unlucky, you'll run into an asshole professor who will ask that kind of question to embarrass you.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by stevew

Is there a substantial advantage to being familiar with Latin? I was just going to take Spanish because I am familiar, but if there's an edge to being semi proficient with Latin I will probably look to take that instead.

I don't think so for the reasons mentioned above. I took two years of Latin in college. I needed to take a language and chose it for some reason. I did great in Latin at college, though, I admit, but the time I went to law school I had forgotten almost all of it except for like 2 sentences:

"Manus lavat manum."

"Gladiator capit consileum en harena."

Oh, and "Caesar dixit". He dixited lots of things.

[britrock88]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

"Caesar dixit". He dixited lots of things.

I lawled.

[molson]

I enjoyed Latin in high school but it has absolutely nothing to do with law school or being a lawyer. In criminal work, there's a ton of latin phrases that come up, but I don't even know the literal english translations of most of them, I just know their legal meaning - they're basically just pseudo-English legal terms you have to learn. Like "sua sponte". I don't know what the literal translation of that is (until I looked it up just now), I just know it means that a court did something on its own, without being prompted by a motion from either party.

[Ksyrup]

Go shove your quid pro quo where the sua sponte don't shine!

[Noop]

Update.

No.

[Noop]

I want to add that I think I have officially gone over board with regard to my prep for Law School. I have read 5 books about law schools/exams and I have done this essay writing program. In addition to that I have began to read over supplements that teach Black Letter Law.

I want to stop and just enjoy the summer but my fear of not doing well is compelling me to work. I visit another board dedicated to law students and some of my future classmates have been prepping since April. Any of you guys have any tips for improving my writing?

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by Noop

I want to add that I think I have officially gone over board with regard to my prep for Law School. I have read 5 books about law schools/exams and I have done this essay writing program. In addition to that I have began to read over supplements that teach Black Letter Law.

I want to stop and just enjoy the summer but my fear of not doing well is compelling me to work. I visit another board dedicated to law students and some of my future classmates have been prepping since April. Any of you guys have any tips for improving my writing?

Burnout can be a concern. And a message board like that gives you a very skewed sample size. The students who want to show off how hard they are working are the ones who will post that they have been prepping since April. Don't use them as a guide.

I'm not saying be completely lazy. But it is a marathon and not a sprint. And you don't want to run for 50 miles before the marathon begins. This is one of your last free summers. Don't spend it all in the library.

[Glengoyne]

Not a Lawyer, but I've read some of the above and have a question.

If reading cases and decisions is a learned art. It also sounds like once that art is learned, reading cases will take a fraction of the time. So is there a good way to get a head start on learning this vital skill?

If there is, that seems like a good way to prepare. It will end up giving you the gift of time.

[corbes]

A lawyer here. Let me vote on the side of "relax." I see almost no upside in spending your entire summer memorizing things. That sounds like an exercise in futility. I would rather see you take a trip to another country or go an extended hike or something like that. It is most important that you enter the fall fresh.

[Noop]

I appreciate this guys. I have decided against learning black letter law and just focus on learning how to write exams.