Devs made the best ever Ground grappling mechanics.
Clinch is based on the same grappling mechanics.
BUT
Clinch does not use many features of this grappling mechanics, so it looses its depth and mind game strategy.
Here are this missed features:
1) No Grapple block Reversals in Clinch.
There are 2 types of reversals in UFC 2: Grapple block (GB) reversal - by early deny opponent's grapple move, and Grapple move (GM) reversal - by inputting Throw, advanced transition or submission against opponent's transition.
> Give us the ability to advance our clinch position by early GB (deny) opponent's GM - i.e. GB reversal.
We also can use anti reversal input technique by swoop RS as we have in ground.
2) No LS usage in Clinch:
In UD3 when u are in the clinch:
- you are moving (LS) toward the opponent (closer) decrease his and yrs strike's damage b/c no amplitude (defensive option) but also gives you and yr opponent GA for any Grappling move (transition or throw)
- you are moving away from the opponent (far) increase yr and his strike damage b/c more space and more amplitude (offensive option) but also give you and yr opponent GDA (grapple disadvantage).
In other words, shorter distance in clinch > go to GM, more distance in Clinch > go to Strike.
so both fighters are checking each other LS moving tendencies to plain their strategy.
Movements toward/away from the opponent must NOT to be instant, they must take some time to complete for ex 1-2 sec. This will bring timing and checking in the game.
Bring the same to EA UFC 2 - this is easy by patch i think.
This will bring a purpose to LS movement in the clinch.
3) No usage of Whips in Clinch:
1. I perform MT Whip with buffered L1 Head Knee = the same Knee as w/o whip with the same damage (no damage bonus for the whip) + i loose more stamina for the whip
MT Knee is better than MT whip Knee.
How to block - just hold R2 pre-emptively all the time.
2. I perform SC Whip with buffered Knee = unique Knee for this whip but the damage the same as from Uppercut (no damage bonus for the whip) + I loose much stamina for the whip + break the clinch.
SC whip knee may to use vs players that dont know how to block it (R2 not R1)
How to block - just hold R2 pre-emptively all the time.
How it was in EA UFC 1:
- Unique powerful Knee from MT whip
- much more damage than standard MT Knee
- Whip cancels my Block and make it innactive for 1 sec and i must to re-press just after it become available and before the hit (need timing and reaction = skill to block)
RESUME: Devs, you made Whips in EA UFC 2 worse and useless than it was before in EA UFC 1.
How to fix:
- change blocking after whip (as like i said it was before in EA UFC 1)
- if possible give unique Knee for MT whip
- give damage bonus for the whip
4) We need Blank Grapple block animation:
http://www.operationsports.com/forum...ple-block.html
When we pay enough attention and saw Blank GB - we know that we must to do full grappling move (GM) , not a Fake GM.
When we dont see Blank GB - we dont have guaranteed GM window and need to perform Fake GM as a bate.
W/o Blank GB animation we never know what status has the opponent and what we need to do, so the gameplay becomes more random and unpredictable.
Blank Grapple block - you inputted Deny (R2+RS) in wrong time (w/o opponent's grapple move execution) OR in wrong direction in right time.
Blank GB doe not allow you to make a deny during 2 sec after it and all opponent's grapple moves that begins in that period will be guaranteed undeniable.
5) Buff Over-Under:
http://www.operationsports.com/forum...h-denials.html
It has broken logic and is too weak.
6) Bring Grapple Move Reversals into Clinch against Transitions:
We have this in Ground against some Transitions.
But we dont have this in Clinch against _Transitions_. Like we have it on Ground (Submission reversal vs Transition).
7) Very important! Change INPUT for GM Reversals in Clinch so it can not be done pre-emptively:
GM Reversal in ground requires from the 1.07 both triggers L2+R2, so Submission reversal can not be performed pre-emptively and has all penalties as we have with wrong timed Grapple block.
BUT
In clinch which has the same grappling mechanics WE CAN PRE_EMPTIVELY hold Throw/advanced transition reversals w/o any penalty and w/o loosing stamina. This may be right for stand up but absolutely wrong for Cinch/Grappling.
PRE_EMPTIVELY - i.e. you can hold the input even all the time w/o any cons and penalties, and get auto reversal when opponent will start his move. also there are no stamina drain for this so no any sign of your activated reversal and opponent dont see the danger = inbalance!
8) Missed new Grappling mechanics features from the Clinch:
As many including myself said many times, devs, you made AWESOME new Grappling mechanics - very deep, various, strategic, skillful, and very authentic. On the GROUND.
BUT
Clinch uses THE SAME Grappling mechanics, but strangely dont have many features of it.
This needs to be fixed to bring the same depth, skill, realism and strategy to the Clinch as we have on the Ground.
Here the full list:
1) Grapple block reversal
So, Perfect swoop is not needed.
2) No similar Arm trap technique (grapple strike counter)
3) No momentums (Only one - [If I go from sub MT to SC] I can momentum Single and Double leg TD (not for all TDs/Throws; not for dom MT fighter).
4) No context specific grapple moves.
Context specific GM (Context GM) – GM which becomes available only in specific context [when the opponent starts his GM and until it ends, i.e. while I am in intermediate sub position caused by his GM execution]; this GM’s icon shows up in Grapple HUD instead of standard GM.
5) No persistent transitions.
PERSISTENT TRANSITION (PT) – some of GM, that will continue to execute even after the opponent completes his attempted GM.
6) Grapple mover reversals (counter TD by Submission) strangely has another input and can be pre-emptive w/o any penalties.
7) No GM Reversal vs Transition in Clinch - as we have it on Ground (Submission reversal vs Transition).
Please, bring the same depth to the clinch as we have it on the ground!
____________________________________
9) And i still have not seen an answer for one unclear question:
How Blank Block (against strikes) affect Grapple advantage in Clinch and Ground?
GPD gave us an awesome Grappling tutorial:
Blank Block - you hold R2 or R1 against strikes, but this gives you a Grapple disadvantage if opponent is performing a Takedown instead of strike.
In this tutorial we see a topic about Grappling advantage (GA):
As we see Blocking only in Stand up and only High blocking gives us GA.
But here GPD said that on the ground Blank Blocking (Blank = holding block w/o getting strike) also give GA:
http://www.operationsports.com/forum...n-exploit.html
10) Keep gained GA from damaged legs in stand up to Clinch for Throws/TDs from it:
After some testing in Practice w GA (Grapple advantage) gauge i noticed the bug - Damaged Legs takes no effect on GA in CLINCH, only in Stand up.
Damaged leg (even one) increases GA meter in Stand up; more red leg = more GA. But when initiate a Clinch, GA resetting to 0 and does not take effect on Clinch Throws and TDs. I think this is not right.
> How ti fix: Clinch need to separate its GA: with damaged Legs no GA for transitions in Clinch, but remain GA for Throws and TDs because this is realistic.
11) Needs to make more various and more difficult Throws' denial, at least TWO DIRECTIONS FOR DENIAL OF THROWS/TDs from CLINCH:
- 2 directions for 2 types of Throws: based on pulling and on pushing off.
Also
implement new TAKEDOWN SWITCH mechanics:
http://www.operationsports.com/forum...scussions.html
So i have a questions that are very important for gameplay:
1 question: holding Blank (i.e. w/o actual blocked opponent's strike) Block in Clinch and Ground (not Stand up) also gives GA to the opponent?
2 question: in Clinch and Ground which Block level, High or Low gives GA to the opponent or both are equal?
3 question: Does Low block (R2) in Stand up gives GA to the opponent or only High block (R1)?
LEGEND:
Blank Block - you hold R2 or R1 against strikes, but this gives you a Grapple disadvantage if opponent is performing a Takedown instead of strike.
Blank Grapple block - you inputted Deny (R2+RS) in wrong time (w/o opponent's grapple move execution) OR in wrong direction in right time.
Blank GB doe not allow you to make a deny during 2 sec after it and all opponent's grapple moves that begins in that period will be guaranteed undeniable.
Grapple move (GM) - any move that uses Grapple HUD diagram (Transition, Throw, Takedown, Submission)
LS - Left analog stick on gamepad
MT Whip - Muay Thai whip
SC Whip - Single collar whip
PRE_EMPTIVELY - i.e. you can hold the input even all the time w/o any cons and penalties, and get auto reversal when opponent will start his move. also there are no stamina drain for this so no any sign of your activated reversal and opponent dont see the danger = inbalance!
Clinch is based on the same grappling mechanics.
BUT
Clinch does not use many features of this grappling mechanics, so it looses its depth and mind game strategy.
Here are this missed features:
1) No Grapple block Reversals in Clinch.
There are 2 types of reversals in UFC 2: Grapple block (GB) reversal - by early deny opponent's grapple move, and Grapple move (GM) reversal - by inputting Throw, advanced transition or submission against opponent's transition.
> Give us the ability to advance our clinch position by early GB (deny) opponent's GM - i.e. GB reversal.
We also can use anti reversal input technique by swoop RS as we have in ground.
2) No LS usage in Clinch:
In UD3 when u are in the clinch:
- you are moving (LS) toward the opponent (closer) decrease his and yrs strike's damage b/c no amplitude (defensive option) but also gives you and yr opponent GA for any Grappling move (transition or throw)
- you are moving away from the opponent (far) increase yr and his strike damage b/c more space and more amplitude (offensive option) but also give you and yr opponent GDA (grapple disadvantage).
In other words, shorter distance in clinch > go to GM, more distance in Clinch > go to Strike.
so both fighters are checking each other LS moving tendencies to plain their strategy.
Movements toward/away from the opponent must NOT to be instant, they must take some time to complete for ex 1-2 sec. This will bring timing and checking in the game.
Bring the same to EA UFC 2 - this is easy by patch i think.
This will bring a purpose to LS movement in the clinch.
3) No usage of Whips in Clinch:
1. I perform MT Whip with buffered L1 Head Knee = the same Knee as w/o whip with the same damage (no damage bonus for the whip) + i loose more stamina for the whip
MT Knee is better than MT whip Knee.
How to block - just hold R2 pre-emptively all the time.
2. I perform SC Whip with buffered Knee = unique Knee for this whip but the damage the same as from Uppercut (no damage bonus for the whip) + I loose much stamina for the whip + break the clinch.
SC whip knee may to use vs players that dont know how to block it (R2 not R1)
How to block - just hold R2 pre-emptively all the time.
How it was in EA UFC 1:
- Unique powerful Knee from MT whip
- much more damage than standard MT Knee
- Whip cancels my Block and make it innactive for 1 sec and i must to re-press just after it become available and before the hit (need timing and reaction = skill to block)
RESUME: Devs, you made Whips in EA UFC 2 worse and useless than it was before in EA UFC 1.
How to fix:
- change blocking after whip (as like i said it was before in EA UFC 1)
- if possible give unique Knee for MT whip
- give damage bonus for the whip
4) We need Blank Grapple block animation:
http://www.operationsports.com/forum...ple-block.html
When we pay enough attention and saw Blank GB - we know that we must to do full grappling move (GM) , not a Fake GM.
When we dont see Blank GB - we dont have guaranteed GM window and need to perform Fake GM as a bate.
W/o Blank GB animation we never know what status has the opponent and what we need to do, so the gameplay becomes more random and unpredictable.
Blank Grapple block - you inputted Deny (R2+RS) in wrong time (w/o opponent's grapple move execution) OR in wrong direction in right time.
Blank GB doe not allow you to make a deny during 2 sec after it and all opponent's grapple moves that begins in that period will be guaranteed undeniable.
5) Buff Over-Under:
http://www.operationsports.com/forum...h-denials.html
It has broken logic and is too weak.
6) Bring Grapple Move Reversals into Clinch against Transitions:
We have this in Ground against some Transitions.
But we dont have this in Clinch against _Transitions_. Like we have it on Ground (Submission reversal vs Transition).
7) Very important! Change INPUT for GM Reversals in Clinch so it can not be done pre-emptively:
GM Reversal in ground requires from the 1.07 both triggers L2+R2, so Submission reversal can not be performed pre-emptively and has all penalties as we have with wrong timed Grapple block.
BUT
In clinch which has the same grappling mechanics WE CAN PRE_EMPTIVELY hold Throw/advanced transition reversals w/o any penalty and w/o loosing stamina. This may be right for stand up but absolutely wrong for Cinch/Grappling.
PRE_EMPTIVELY - i.e. you can hold the input even all the time w/o any cons and penalties, and get auto reversal when opponent will start his move. also there are no stamina drain for this so no any sign of your activated reversal and opponent dont see the danger = inbalance!
8) Missed new Grappling mechanics features from the Clinch:
As many including myself said many times, devs, you made AWESOME new Grappling mechanics - very deep, various, strategic, skillful, and very authentic. On the GROUND.
BUT
Clinch uses THE SAME Grappling mechanics, but strangely dont have many features of it.
This needs to be fixed to bring the same depth, skill, realism and strategy to the Clinch as we have on the Ground.
Here the full list:
1) Grapple block reversal
So, Perfect swoop is not needed.
2) No similar Arm trap technique (grapple strike counter)
3) No momentums (Only one - [If I go from sub MT to SC] I can momentum Single and Double leg TD (not for all TDs/Throws; not for dom MT fighter).
4) No context specific grapple moves.
Context specific GM (Context GM) – GM which becomes available only in specific context [when the opponent starts his GM and until it ends, i.e. while I am in intermediate sub position caused by his GM execution]; this GM’s icon shows up in Grapple HUD instead of standard GM.
5) No persistent transitions.
PERSISTENT TRANSITION (PT) – some of GM, that will continue to execute even after the opponent completes his attempted GM.
6) Grapple mover reversals (counter TD by Submission) strangely has another input and can be pre-emptive w/o any penalties.
7) No GM Reversal vs Transition in Clinch - as we have it on Ground (Submission reversal vs Transition).
Please, bring the same depth to the clinch as we have it on the ground!
____________________________________
9) And i still have not seen an answer for one unclear question:
How Blank Block (against strikes) affect Grapple advantage in Clinch and Ground?
GPD gave us an awesome Grappling tutorial:
Blank Block - you hold R2 or R1 against strikes, but this gives you a Grapple disadvantage if opponent is performing a Takedown instead of strike.
In this tutorial we see a topic about Grappling advantage (GA):
Grapple Advantage – Standing Takedowns
High Blocking
If you are currently holding the high block button, you are at a grapple disadvantage.
High Blocking
If you are currently holding the high block button, you are at a grapple disadvantage.
But here GPD said that on the ground Blank Blocking (Blank = holding block w/o getting strike) also give GA:
http://www.operationsports.com/forum...n-exploit.html
10) Keep gained GA from damaged legs in stand up to Clinch for Throws/TDs from it:
After some testing in Practice w GA (Grapple advantage) gauge i noticed the bug - Damaged Legs takes no effect on GA in CLINCH, only in Stand up.
Damaged leg (even one) increases GA meter in Stand up; more red leg = more GA. But when initiate a Clinch, GA resetting to 0 and does not take effect on Clinch Throws and TDs. I think this is not right.
> How ti fix: Clinch need to separate its GA: with damaged Legs no GA for transitions in Clinch, but remain GA for Throws and TDs because this is realistic.
11) Needs to make more various and more difficult Throws' denial, at least TWO DIRECTIONS FOR DENIAL OF THROWS/TDs from CLINCH:
- 2 directions for 2 types of Throws: based on pulling and on pushing off.
Also
implement new TAKEDOWN SWITCH mechanics:
http://www.operationsports.com/forum...scussions.html
So i have a questions that are very important for gameplay:
1 question: holding Blank (i.e. w/o actual blocked opponent's strike) Block in Clinch and Ground (not Stand up) also gives GA to the opponent?
2 question: in Clinch and Ground which Block level, High or Low gives GA to the opponent or both are equal?
3 question: Does Low block (R2) in Stand up gives GA to the opponent or only High block (R1)?
LEGEND:
Blank Block - you hold R2 or R1 against strikes, but this gives you a Grapple disadvantage if opponent is performing a Takedown instead of strike.
Blank Grapple block - you inputted Deny (R2+RS) in wrong time (w/o opponent's grapple move execution) OR in wrong direction in right time.
Blank GB doe not allow you to make a deny during 2 sec after it and all opponent's grapple moves that begins in that period will be guaranteed undeniable.
Grapple move (GM) - any move that uses Grapple HUD diagram (Transition, Throw, Takedown, Submission)
LS - Left analog stick on gamepad
MT Whip - Muay Thai whip
SC Whip - Single collar whip
PRE_EMPTIVELY - i.e. you can hold the input even all the time w/o any cons and penalties, and get auto reversal when opponent will start his move. also there are no stamina drain for this so no any sign of your activated reversal and opponent dont see the danger = inbalance!
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