CPU Passing AI

[slickdtc]

Alright, I've been really playing this game a lot recently (I played it some during the NFL season but not too much), and this has got to be the most annoying thing so far.

The CPU Passer AI is terrible. I've played 3 games of my Washington Redskins franchise, and in all 3 games I've gotten at least 3 interceptions, with 2 games going for 4 INT's and 5 INT's. And it usually happens in the red zone.

I tried editting the opposing QB to have 99 "Pass Read Coverage", but it didn't work; the opposing QB threw 2 INT's in the 1st quarter alone.

So, is there any way for the opposing QB to not throw into triple coverage and get the ball picked off? I have CPU Passing at 40 (the maximum), Interceptions at 0 (minimum), and Human Coverage at about 5 clicks.

*It's not just a coincidence either. It happens all the time. The rest of the game I can get very accurate results, except INT's by the CPU QB.

And I don't have Action Replay, but I'm willing to edit my rosters if I must.

[baa7]

Re: CPU Passing AI

The CPU Passer AI is terrible. I've played 3 games of my Washington Redskins franchise, and in all 3 games I've gotten at least 3 interceptions, with 2 games going for 4 INT's and 5 INT's. And it usually happens in the red zone.

I tried editting the opposing QB to have 99 "Pass Read Coverage", but it didn't work; the opposing QB threw 2 INT's in the 1st quarter alone.

First, maybe try a search. This issue has been discussed before.

Now… what you’re describing – including the fruitless editing – is exactly what I observed and attempted to fix, and why I eventually gave up on 2K5. It’s a major, MAJOR flaw with the game… and something few people seem to have a problem with it seems. I’m guessing that’s because most people play online, and so that particular glitch doesn’t matter for most.

Yes, the programmers appear to have actually programmed the CPU QB to intentionally throw into double and triple coverage. My guess is someone went overboard with trying to program a bit of CPU error into the game. And like all 2K games, it wasn’t tested enough, and therefore happens way, WAY too often.

But, as I said, try a search. Maybe someone’s found something to lessen the problem, but I personally believe it’s something hard-coded into the game… like the idiotic DB play, the OL’s who step aside and let the DT’s come rushing in, the LB’s who let the QB run 5 yards past the LOS before pursuing him, and all the phony INT’s.

[NickChew]

Re: CPU Passing AI

Yea, that is an annoying part of this game. As with the other things stated by baa, which I agree with. There are a few ways to lessen the annoyance though, at least in my experience with 2K5.

For the AI passing game, I've lowered all QBs pass read coverage by about 30. I believe I have Brady or Manning at the highest rating, around 60 or so. Sounds kinda crazy, but it has helped for me. It almost gives the QBs a more human approach to reading coverage. Really cuts back on the automatic throws, where they throw the ball because thats where its "suppose" to go. And yet, when I've blitzed the AI QBs, most of the time they will read it and maybe hit the back out of the backfield, or hit the TE over the middle. And do it in a realistic manner, in my opinion.
Another major rating to adjust for QBs is stamina. In my last roster set, all QBs stamina is set to 99. Higher stamina for any position improves all around play.
You might also want to mess with composure a bit. I've lowered that rating as well. More so for the scrambling QBs, as it makes them a little more fidgity back in the pocket and more likely to take off (combined with a lower pass read coverage, like 40 or so...example Michael Vick)

Like I said, just a suggestion. But I've been fairly happy with the results. There are still gameplay elements in 2K5 that really shine over other games. I'll be playing it most of this season no doubt, giving Madden a gamefly rental most likely. But I just can't stand that gameplay and graphics. I really want to see a glimpse of next gen Madden gameplay footage.

[slickdtc]

Re: CPU Passing AI

Thanks for the input.

I ran a search (probably should have in the first place), and I think I came out with some good results. Consistency, Pass Accuracy, Pass Read Coverage, and Stamina should all be tampered with. I'll give it a try.

Here's where I found my information, just in case someone else wants to use it.

[baa7]

Re: CPU Passing AI

There are still gameplay elements in 2K5 that really shine over other games.

True... I'm just real grumpy this morning

[NickChew]

Re: CPU Passing AI

True... I'm just real grumpy this morning

lol, I hear ya. Not a morning person myself, especially as I sit here at work with nothing to do...and the clock ticks by on a Friday...when I could be home ignoring house work and the dog...and be playing Xbox

Ok back on topic....

[rudyjuly2]

Re: CPU Passing AI

You are absolutely right about the CPU QBs. Its really turned the game into a snoozer for me. I have human coverage at 0 with CPU passing at 40 and they are still terrible. I've tried editing read coverage up and down as well as maxing QBs fatigue as one poster said that helped. I didn't see any significant difference with anything I tried. One thing that does help a little is to increase everybody's arm strength so the ball gets there faster instead of letting 3 guys gets shots at interceptions.

The real reason behind the problem is that the old 2K games never had the QB throw deep. They re-wrote the logic so the CPU does go deep in 2K5 but their decision making is awful.

If you ever just have the CPU play each other (not simulate, actually match them up) and throw Peyton Manning out there against Brett Favre (with two average to bad defenses) and they will complete less than half of their passes and throw multiple picks every game. If anybody thinks they have fixed this problem I would love to read their fix and have them run a few CPU games to see how they react and what the results are. 99% of the time its not pretty.

[slickdtc]

Re: CPU Passing AI

Well, I editted Pass Read Coverage to 40 and the other things (Stamina, Pass Accuracy, Composure, Consistency) I put to 99.

So against editted Matt Hasselbeck, I only picked off one pass during the 2 minute drill. I had to go then, but I think 1 INT in 2 quarters is better then 2 INT in 1 quarter.

Going to have to keep playing and hopefully results come out good. This is the one thing really holding the game back from being nearly perfect for me.

[wwharton]

Re: CPU Passing AI

Yes, the programmers appear to have actually programmed the CPU QB to intentionally throw into double and triple coverage. My guess is someone went overboard with trying to program a bit of CPU error into the game. And like all 2K games, it wasn’t tested enough, and therefore happens way, WAY too often.

bingo! I think the biggest problem for 2k fans (I guess any fans but the VC crew really tried to fix what fans felt was wrong) is exaggeration. Someone sees one little thing, someone else confirms it and now it's the biggest thing in the world, the testers should all be fired, and the game is garbage b/c of it. It happened in NBA with the passing system and dunks. It's happened in baseball and has happened with other things in football.

This time, as Rudy said, it was to fix the deep ball problem but also b/c QBs always passed to the to the right guy at the right time. In reality this WAS the deep ball problem. No QBs waited long enough to have someone open deep b/c somebody was open before then. In 2k4 I lowered the awareness for all the QBs and you saw more deep balls and more bad decisions so that would lead me to believe this problem is due to a fix. I don't play much alone so, as mentioned, I don't notice it.

[The_Otrain]

Re: CPU Passing AI

Did you guys adjust the INT slider? It helps because it makes the defenders just tip or block passes instead of going for picks all the time.

[slickdtc]

Re: CPU Passing AI

Did you guys adjust the INT slider? It helps because it makes the defenders just tip or block passes instead of going for picks all the time.

Of course. That's the first instinct. It's always slider adjustments before roster edits.

[Sportsforever]

Re: CPU Passing AI

I too have been frustrated with this aspect of 2K5. I love this game, but I have been trying since last fall to fix the passing game so I can get down to business and really play out a franchise. My big problems with the AI passing have been the following:

1) Low Completion %

2) To many interceptions

Recently I read on here that increasing the stamina improves gameplay. I started looking, and all QB's have such low stamina ratings. I know the manual says that the stamina ratings are unique to each position, but they are still low (most are below 40). I ended up jacking up every player's stamina rating to 99 and playing with all sliders except for injury and fumble zeroed out. I have had the computer play out about 20 games the last few days tweaking some things here and there and here is what I have found:

I really believe the sliders are relative. What I mean by that is that for example, if you max out the CPU passing slider, but you leave the human slider at 0 the CPU does horrible. It seems that for some reason performance is better when they are equal (except if you use default settings). Not sure why. One other interesting thing I found is that if you move the fumble slider up (I usually have it at 21-22) to around 28-30 the interceptions really decrease. The only reason I can think of is that the game basically attempts to replicate the number of turnovers that should occur based on statistics. Since there are more fumbles at 28-30 there are fewer interceptions. I actually had to move the interception slider up from 0 to start seeing some because I went like 4 games without seeing one. Not sure if that was a coincidence or not, but I did think it was interesting. Anyway, after running all these games I have actually got the computer to play fairly well against itself. I generally see completion %'s between 55-65% with 2-3 picks a game. I had a couple games where McNabb completed 73-75% of his passes. I also had some games where a QB would complete like 45-50%, but actually this happens about 15% of the time in the NFL (I base that on looking through old boxscores from last year. Usually around 6-7 QB's a week are less than 50% completions). Sorry for the long post, but I am determined to fix this because I flat out love this game.

[bknolla]

Re: CPU Passing AI

I have been following nickchews work for awhile now, and I just downloaded his latest roster update with edits, and one of my own. I have started a franchise with Finns new editor to get the new schedules, and have watched about 15 games now, and they are excellent. I made only one change to my roster, and that was to put all the pass read coverage for all quarterbacks at 0. They play really good with nicks other edits. I have watched games with 0 interceptions, and some with two or three, but they are all done within what I consider to be good defense, and not bad passing. I say again, the only other change I did was to lower all pass read coverage to 0, and I have really enjoyed watching the games more than playing them. I am actually spoiled, it's much more relaxing to watch than to have to play. I also use nicks settings for the most part, with fatigue at 12, and subin/subout at 90/100.

[adriano]

Re: CPU Passing AI

Alright, I've been really playing this game a lot recently (I played it some during the NFL season but not too much), and this has got to be the most annoying thing so far.

The CPU Passer AI is terrible. I've played 3 games of my Washington Redskins franchise, and in all 3 games I've gotten at least 3 interceptions, with 2 games going for 4 INT's and 5 INT's. And it usually happens in the red zone.

I tried editting the opposing QB to have 99 "Pass Read Coverage", but it didn't work; the opposing QB threw 2 INT's in the 1st quarter alone.

So, is there any way for the opposing QB to not throw into triple coverage and get the ball picked off? I have CPU Passing at 40 (the maximum), Interceptions at 0 (minimum), and Human Coverage at about 5 clicks.

*It's not just a coincidence either. It happens all the time. The rest of the game I can get very accurate results, except INT's by the CPU QB.

And I don't have Action Replay, but I'm willing to edit my rosters if I must.

Want to try my roster .. I have had some really realistic games.. just regular old all pro sliders no tweaks

[Rickster101]

Re: CPU Passing AI

I too have been frustrated with this aspect of 2K5. I love this game, but I have been trying since last fall to fix the passing game so I can get down to business and really play out a franchise. My big problems with the AI passing have been the following:

1) Low Completion %

2) To many interceptions

Recently I read on here that increasing the stamina improves gameplay. I started looking, and all QB's have such low stamina ratings. I know the manual says that the stamina ratings are unique to each position, but they are still low (most are below 40). I ended up jacking up every player's stamina rating to 99 and playing with all sliders except for injury and fumble zeroed out. I have had the computer play out about 20 games the last few days tweaking some things here and there and here is what I have found:

I really believe the sliders are relative. What I mean by that is that for example, if you max out the CPU passing slider, but you leave the human slider at 0 the CPU does horrible. It seems that for some reason performance is better when they are equal (except if you use default settings). Not sure why. One other interesting thing I found is that if you move the fumble slider up (I usually have it at 21-22) to around 28-30 the interceptions really decrease. The only reason I can think of is that the game basically attempts to replicate the number of turnovers that should occur based on statistics. Since there are more fumbles at 28-30 there are fewer interceptions. I actually had to move the interception slider up from 0 to start seeing some because I went like 4 games without seeing one. Not sure if that was a coincidence or not, but I did think it was interesting. Anyway, after running all these games I have actually got the computer to play fairly well against itself. I generally see completion %'s between 55-65% with 2-3 picks a game. I had a couple games where McNabb completed 73-75% of his passes. I also had some games where a QB would complete like 45-50%, but actually this happens about 15% of the time in the NFL (I base that on looking through old boxscores from last year. Usually around 6-7 QB's a week are less than 50% completions). Sorry for the long post, but I am determined to fix this because I flat out love this game.

This is actually a very interesting post and I like your thinking here bro it is definatly out of the norm from other postings I've read,what you've done is what I've always suspected but could never fully understand.

To me it seems that some sliders actually perform better when they're lower and according to your findings and stats posted here this "out of the box" thinking is something that holds some validity.

Case in point...take a closer look at "Nick Chews" sliders,not dominating or over powering but still along with his set of rosters very very effective.

Now I haven't gone over his latest rosters in detail but am familiar with his previous work and from what I do know they are every bit as good as any I've played with,still with his slider settings being so odd I would question just how did he do that.

Well draw your own conclusions and check them out for yourself in the meantime I'd be interested in seeing just what you used to get these figures you've posted here 55-65% is something I'd like to see for myself.


Holla Back y'all
Rickster101