Sliding into first

[kehlis]

Re: Sliding into first

Okay then. Have a good one.

[Jr.]

Re: Sliding into first

My first part was disputing the support you made for your argument. You said it's faster sometimes by showing videos of guys being safe, a video that said running is faster, and a link to an article that argues a different point.

My second point about sprinters was added because I don't think it's faster at all. You said that you don't always think it's faster, but sometimes you think it is. I disagree, I don't think it's ever faster.

I think sliding into first is only viable if you need to avoid a tag. I think baserunners that do it when there is no tag are incredibly dumb and are only risking injury to make it more likely that they'll be out. My reasoning for that is based in biomechanics. You have to load up to slide, which means you are slowing down your momentum. I've never seen someone slide without having to change their stride (which slows them down).

[ShaBoomer]

Re: Sliding into first

You too bud.

[ManiacMatt1782]

Re: Sliding into first

Any baseball coach I ever had told me you pretty much never slide into 1st for the reasons mentioned above, plus injury risk. It's just not a smart play. Guys feel like the are making an extra effort, but as evidence has proven, if you can run through the bag, and do not have to stop yourself it is faster to go through the bag. Now if you have to avoid a tag on an errant throw that pulls the 1st baseman off the bag, that is a different story, sliding may be the only way to get around or under the tag. But in general sliding into 1st is a mistake, even if some professionals still make it.

[Mizzou24]

Re: Sliding into first

I've slid on a few plays where a guy muffs the grounder and has to find it and it was successful. But typically I don't slide.


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[pjs24]

Re: Sliding into first

Show me some data that says it's slower then please. Also, explain why you see runners slide into first on non-tagging plays.

Also, your point about what the umps are listening for when making a call at 1st is no longer accurate. The rules have changed because of expanded instant replay. The ball is now considered to be caught the instant it is in the glove, not when it makes the sound of hitting the pocket.

Let's just leave it at this: Runners slide into 1st for many reasons. It happens in real life, and it happens in the game. Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

It's science, man. It's been on that ESPN Sports Science. Players do it bc they're stupid. They foolishly think it's helpful. It's no wonder one of the worst players in the game is essentially KNOWN for it... Nick Punto.

Mind you in the comparison of the world, Nick Punto is a brilliant ballplayer and to get a 14 year career out of those skills is an achievement, but in the realm of MLB, he's trash. 76 OPS+ says it all. And his trademark is sliding into to first to make it look like he's hustling. He's also the idiot who rips off his teammates jerseys to celebrate walkoffs. So holding up that the players do it as a reason for its viability doesn't hold much water.

[pjs24]

Re: Sliding into first

Here's Giambi sliding into first on a non-tag play, in a game where the Indians are winning 14-2. So in other words, he didn't even need to reach base, but he really wanted the hit:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTikOHMCNLg

Puig sliding into first, non-tag play. Beat the throw by a millisecond:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eSGnnF5p-c

And to show I'm not biased, here's EPSN's Sport Science segment on running vs. diving:

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=10766501

In this video they find that running is 10ms faster than diving from 10ft. However, the video only shows this from the perspective of 1 runner, who as you can see in the video, didn't dive/slide into 1st very well.

And for fans of Mythbusters:

http://www.discovery.com/tv-shows/my...an-running.htm

If you saw this episode, Mythbusters confirmed sliding can be faster than running through, depending on the situation.



I'd also like to point out that I didn't say it was ALWAYS faster. But sometimes it is. Like I said, if you screw up your gait when you leave the box you may have to half-step to line yourself up with the bag. In this case, sliding can be faster.

Should've read through before responding to your first one since you included the SS clip I referenced.

I don't doubt that you can find singular instances where sliding may've helped, but it's OVERWHELMINGLY used in situations where it not at all the right choice.

[pjs24]

Re: Sliding into first

I never said it was always faster. What I said was there are situations when it is beneficial to slide rather than run through. If there weren't, then nobody would do it. But that's not reality.

This isn't really correct. Especially the part of "If there weren't, then nobody would do it" because that gives people WAAAAAAAY too much credit. People consistently do lots of things they think are beneficial when they really aren't. Sliding it first is one of them, especially the frequency and situations that they choose to do it.

[caseyj622]

Re: Sliding into first

The only time it happens to me is on a GIDP when I try to slide into 2nd and break up the throw, my guy running to first always slides also. It's a bug. I hope it will be patched.

[bfindeisen]

Re: Sliding into first

Haha, what a joke this thread has become. Did you ever figure out your original problem OP?

The arguing over semantics is silly. I am fairly certain most agree that sliding into first is generally a bad play, but there are ABSOLUTELY times when sliding into first is the difference between being safe and out (first baseman pulled off bag by throw and attempts a tag). It shouldn't be done regularly by any player, but in certain circumstances it is effective.

If it were the playoffs and there were 2 outs and my team needed a baserunner or hit and there is play at first where the throw pulls the firstbaseman down line towards home and he attempts a sweep tag, you better believe I'm sliding underneath it to outside of first.

[ShaBoomer]

Re: Sliding into first

The arguing over semantics was silly. I fairly certain most agree that sliding into first is generally a bad play, but there are ABSOLUTELY times when sliding into first is the difference between being safe and out (first baseman pulled off bag by throw and attempts a tag). It shouldn't be done regularly by any player, but it certain circumstances it is effective.

This was exactly the point I was trying to make, but people don't read anything these days. They just want to be "right".

I even said that I personally don't like sliding into first. My point was simply that there are circumstances where players think it's a good idea, and it's more than just to avoid a tag. If there weren't, then players wouldn't do it. It really is that simple. Does it mean it was the right decision? Not always, but they still do it.

But if people want to argue, then argue away.

[purplerat]

Re: Sliding into first

This was exactly the point I was trying to make, but people don't read anything these days. They just want to be "right".

I even said that I personally don't like sliding into first. My point was simply that there are circumstances where players think it's a good idea, and it's more than just to avoid a tag. If there weren't, then players wouldn't do it. It really is that simple. Does it mean it was the right decision? Not always, but they still do it.

But if people want to argue, then argue away.

Actually what you said is that it's "Sometimes faster" to slide into first rather than run through it and that's what people have disagreed with, saying it's never faster to slide as opposed to running through. Maybe the words "sometime" and "faster" mean something different to you than what everybody else assumes them to mean?

[ShaBoomer]

Re: Sliding into first

Actually what you said is that it's "Sometimes faster" to slide into first rather than run through it and that's what people have disagreed with, saying it's never faster to slide as opposed to running through. Maybe the words "sometime" and "faster" mean something different to you than what everybody else assumes them to mean?

And for some people, sometimes it is. If those people who slide into 1st didn't think it was faster, they wouldn't do it.

[Jr.]

Re: Sliding into first

And for some people, sometimes it is. If those people who slide into 1st didn't think it was faster, they wouldn't do it.

People think and do a lot of stuff that is wrong. Just because they think and do slide into first, doesn't mean that it's actually faster.

No one ever said it wasn't smart to slide when you're trying to avoid a tag. That point is obvious and doesn't need to be discussed. But it's absolutely not faster to slide than running through something, which you illustrated yourself with one of the links you posted.

And to your backhanded comments about always needing to be right. I don't always need to be right, but when I know I am right I will stand by it.

[bfindeisen]

Re: Sliding into first

And for some people, sometimes it is. If those people who slide into 1st didn't think it was faster, they wouldn't do it.

And here we go again...a totally pointless argument about semantics. Whether it's faster or not is totally irrelevant. I player does what he needs to do to be safe. He's not thinking it's faster or slower; it's instinctual.