AI pickoff attempts

[Steven78]

Re: AI pickoff attempts

Agreed. The entire pickoff/leadoff system needs a complete overhaul.

[kehlis]

Re: AI pickoff attempts

This is an excellent post.

Except for the part about the amount of attempts being a problem. For me that's not the issue. I think it's the success rate.

Unless you mean attempts to second only. Then in which case, I tend to agree with you (again), for the most part.

Then again, I have no idea how many attempts happen in real life. My best guess is an ultra-mega ton.

No you are right, my intent was with regards to success rate more so than attempts.

I think this game has skewed the line for me between the two so I mistyped but you are right, the amount of attempts isn't the problem, it's the success rate.

[@legendm0de]

Re: AI pickoff attempts

alot of points here, you shouldn't be penalized just for taking a lead but the issue is more buggy than just that. My biggest issue with pickoffs are two things.

the killer is that as soon as you even take half a step of a lead, the cpu pitcher seemingly automatically knows the instant you pressed the button and he fires a pickoff attempt often times before you even finish taking a lead. That is the most glaring part that's unrealistic, obviously it would take the pitcher a few seconds to realize he even may need to actually throw a pickoff attempt. But with this games insistence on everyone picking up the pace, it's all done in a flash, take a lead, get picked off immediately

But even further, the problem with pickoff attempts gets even worse to me, and I'm sharing a video about it from a game I was playing tonight well before I even saw this topic, my audio is not clear b/c mic was on the floor. I was ustreaming at the time and talking to myself. But the gist of what I'm saying is, because the pickoff is a cutscene opposed to in real time, your reflexes to Return back to your base are interrupted. If I'm still in my batters view and I see the pitcher turning toward first base, I'd surely bet that my reaction time as the baserunner would be a tick faster, than responding after a cutscene has initiated and camera's have changed over yet the pitcher is already in his motion to pick off.

You already have no point of view as a baserunner to start, so your chance of reacting timely enough as you should is severely handicapped, and ultimately that's the most unfair part about it. Combine all of these factors and it's a badly broken part of the game, and it always has been. I don't have time to lose two baserunners in a game that I'm playing my *** off in, just to flawed pickoff systems, as I did tonight.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/x1hRvqEQypI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

It's best not to take a lead at all, but that's not a fix. Often times, I want to take a lead to distract the pitcher, making him throwover or give me an indication that he's not paying enough attention. Or to simply get a head start in some situations for xbhs and hit/run situations etc, and not to steal but I have no real power to do these sort of things. In cases when I want to control the baserunner, it requires me to (like I did in this video), completely ignore my batter and focus on the runner and still doesn't always pan out.

[Heroesandvillains]

Re: AI pickoff attempts

alot of points here, you shouldn't be penalized just for taking a lead but the issue is more buggy than just that. My biggest issue with pickoffs are two things.

the killer is that as soon as you even take half a step of a lead, the cpu pitcher seemingly automatically knows the instant you pressed the button and he fires a pickoff attempt often times before you even finish taking a lead. That is the most glaring part that's unrealistic, obviously it would take the pitcher a few seconds to realize he even may need to actually throw a pickoff attempt. But with this games insistence on everyone picking up the pace, it's all done in a flash, take a lead, get picked off immediately

But even further, the problem with pickoff attempts gets even worse to me, and I'm sharing a video about it from a game I was playing tonight well before I even saw this topic, my audio is not clear b/c mic was on the floor. I was ustreaming at the time and talking to myself. But the gist of what I'm saying is, because the pickoff is a cutscene opposed to in real time, your reflexes to Return back to your base are interrupted. If I'm still in my batters view and I see the pitcher turning toward first base, I'd surely bet that my reaction time as the baserunner would be a tick faster, than responding after a cutscene has initiated and camera's have changed over yet the pitcher is already in his motion to pick off.

You already have no point of view as a baserunner to start, so your chance of reacting timely enough as you should is severely handicapped, and ultimately that's the most unfair part about it. Combine all of these factors and it's a badly broken part of the game, and it always has been. I don't have time to lose two baserunners in a game that I'm playing my *** off in, just to flawed pickoff systems, as I did tonight.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/x1hRvqEQypI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

It's best not to take a lead at all, but that's not a fix. Often times, I want to take a lead to distract the pitcher, making him throwover or give me an indication that he's not paying enough attention. Or to simply get a head start in some situations for xbhs and hit/run situations etc, and not to steal but I have no real power to do these sort of things. In cases when I want to control the baserunner, it requires me to (like I did in this video), completely ignore my batter and focus on the runner and still doesn't always pan out.

Thanks for the video.

One thing; the player has no control over diving back to the bag once the pickoff has been initiated. It's all ratings/dice roll based.

There used to be a hidden rating for pickoffs that was given to the pitcher. Obviously I can't say for certain that the rating is still there (again...hidden), but I'd have to assume it still is.

Though I could be wrong. I haven't seen a Developer discuss it in awhile.

[@legendm0de]

Re: AI pickoff attempts

Thanks for the video.

One thing; the player has no control over diving back to the bag once the pickoff has been initiated. It's all ratings/dice roll based.

There used to be a hidden rating for pickoffs that was given to the pitcher. Obviously I can't say for certain that the rating is still there (again...hidden), but I'd have to assume it still is.

Though I could be wrong. I haven't seen a Developer discuss it in awhile.

Well actually I was going to include this in my post but it was long enough as it is, but there are times where you are in control of your own recovery back to first base. It's not always cpu controlled and in this instance I was responsible for going back and my reflexes were just so handicapped, that I couldn't make it back.

What I do is when taking a lead I always assume I'm in control of going back as well, even if it's cpu controlled. But you can always feel whether the slide back was cpu controlled or if you actually did it or not. Usually when it's user controlled you will fail 80-90% of the time.

But can anyone else affirm that you are randomly in control of your baserunner and when he goes back to avoid a pickoff?

[Heroesandvillains]

Re: AI pickoff attempts

Well actually I was going to include this in my post but it was long enough as it is, but there are times where you are in control of your own recovery back to first base. It's not always cpu controlled and in this instance I was responsible for going back and my reflexes were just so handicapped, that I couldn't make it back.

What I do is when taking a lead I always assume I'm in control of going back as well, even if it's cpu controlled. But you can always feel whether the slide back was cpu controlled or if you actually did it or not. Usually when it's user controlled you will fail 80-90% of the time.

But can anyone else affirm that you are randomly in control of your baserunner and when he goes back to avoid a pickoff?

Wouldn't the fact that the player always dives back (whether too late or not) when not doing anything be evidence enough?

[@legendm0de]

Re: AI pickoff attempts

They always dive back on their own, late or not as you said. There are also times when you have the ability yourself to slide back into the plate.

There are times where there is a noticeable delay before the pickoff is actually thrown, this is when you have the ability to slide on your own control back to 1B. It's never predictable when this is going to happen or not so that's why I always assume that I could be in control of this and I take no chances.

Ordinarily, the pickoff is just a quick cutscene that clearly feels like you don't have any control over what is being done. That's when you know for certain you were not in control of that play but the other moments, when there is a noticeable delay before the whole pickoff is initiated that is when you have control. Or at least that's when I feel like I have control. They will still slide back though if you do nothing, but you will always be out by country mile.

[allhailben7]

Re: AI pickoff attempts

The pickoffs themselves seem to be way too fast. In RTTS, you have to have perfect timing or be holding down to get back on time. In Base Stealing Training, I have been picked off several times simply because the dive back animation has like .5 second delay or something. Even when you're holding down, your player will only dive back when the pitcher releases the ball.

If you try to react to his move instead, your runner seems to delay his dive by how much time you miss your dive command by. It doesn't matter if you try to dive back before he throws it, he will dive way after and be thrown out.

I have 92 Speed and 75 steal, by the way.

[allhailben7]

Re: AI pickoff attempts

We shouldn't have to always hold the stick down as the only way to avoid being picked off in RTTS.

[@legendm0de]

Re: AI pickoff attempts

The pickoffs themselves seem to be way too fast. In RTTS, you have to have perfect timing or be holding down to get back on time. In Base Stealing Training, I have been picked off several times simply because the dive back animation has like .5 second delay or something. Even when you're holding down, your player will only dive back when the pitcher releases the ball.

If you try to react to his move instead, your runner seems to delay his dive by how much time you miss your dive command by. It doesn't matter if you try to dive back before he throws it, he will dive way after and be thrown out.

I have 92 Speed and 75 steal, by the way.

This is because the baserunner animation is nearly always the same thing, whether it's their jump on the 1st step, or them sliding back. There is hardly any variety but more important than that is we don't control the baserunners directly at all. All we are doing is triggering an animation, but the baserunner control is not 1:1 in my opinion. Doing the baserunning training mode highlights to me what is causing basestealing/running to be an issue for both RTTS control and regular batting control in those moments where you are required to go back yourself.

[burjeffton]

Re: AI pickoff attempts

I've tried to abstain from whining too much about this, but it's one of the few systems in the game that are broken. The LOGIC isn't broken, but taking anything more than the standard lead results in multiple pick-off attempts, until the player is simply tired of it. 4 of them... 5 of them... then I quit leading off. Also, the constant throws to 2B just aren't realistic.

Holding the stick down back to the bag is not even a gameplay mechanic. It requires no reaction or input...

This is a small thing - Been enjoying RTTS a lot this year.

[@legendm0de]

Re: AI pickoff attempts

It has been brought up before I believe in long lost threads, but the default lead baserunners take is also quite enormous for a default lead. It's probably the equivalent of an actual base stealers lead. I remember watching live games and analyst would say stuff like, usually a base stealer will start his lead off from the cut line of grass around 1st Base. Going beyond that grass is a pretty grossly big lead by MLB standards. In this game, the default position starts you right at the cut of grass, almost even further than that. Therefore, taking an actual "lead" in this game is only going to make you even more easy to get picked off because you are extremely too far off base.

But gameplay wise the biggest disadvantage in my opinion is the lack of synchronizing the user controls with the actions of the baserunner. As I said before all we're doing is triggering a limited variety of animations when we slide, steal or return to avoid pickoff. If everything we did were controlled like how we control outfielders, you would see a much better system.