SP, RP, CP Positions

[Godgers12]

Why does The Show have to have 3 separate pitcher positions for pitchers? I do not want the AI deciding on where to pitch who just because he has a SP, RP, or CP next to his name. The Reds lost Chapman to the DL, and they called up some 54 OVR pitcher to replace him, just because he was listed as a closer.

If they got rid of the pitcher positions then AI teams would start pitchers based on their stamina, amongst other things. And if they wanted a RP to become a starter then they could send him down to gain that stamina. They would also make their best RP combined with pitch clutch their closer, rather than close whoever has a CP next to their name. If they want to keep SP and RP, fine, but there is no reason to keep the CP position. There is also a sim stat issue with closers which is just another reason to get rid of them, they rarely seem to record more than 5 or 6 K/9, hell Chapman only had 39 K's on 39 saves, that is highly unrealistic. Also, the AI ONLY uses their closers in save situations for one inning, they never use them in tied games or for more than one inning.

So what do you guys think?

[MLB Bob]

Re: SP, RP, CP Positions

Change CP's to RP's should solve your issue. Its been discussed a lot around here. What I do is only have certain pitchers as CP and no one below MLB set as CP

[Mrmagoo]

Re: SP, RP, CP Positions

Or..... Maybe they could rewrite some of the AI decision making.... Just saying....

Thanks for the info on the work around tho!

[Knight165]

Re: SP, RP, CP Positions

Or..... Maybe they could rewrite some of the AI decision making.... Just saying....

So then how would you "force" the CPU to keep a player as a closer then?(if you are a stickler for MLB parity)
If you remove the designation.....it's locking you from making the CPU put a pitcher in as closer.
If you simply put everyone as a RP....it's going to choose the "best" option.
Both worlds ....
Just sayin'

M.K.
Knight165

[KBLover]

Re: SP, RP, CP Positions

So then how would you "force" the CPU to keep a player as a closer then?(if you are a stickler for MLB parity)
If you remove the designation.....it's locking you from making the CPU put a pitcher in as closer.
If you simply put everyone as a RP....it's going to choose the "best" option.
Both worlds ....
Just sayin'

While I understand some might say that if the AI didn't stick to real life that it's performing badly, I think it's worse AI that would rush a AA-level pitcher to the majors because he's the only one with the "CP" tag.

After all, what would a major league team do if their closer got hurt? Rush some guy from AA? Wouldn't they be more apt to look for solid options (not rushing kids) until/if they trade for a closer (or a reliever with closer stuff, which in this game would be marked as a "RP" with very solid ratings and pitch arsenal and, as such, not be considered "a closer" or "closer material" because only "actual closers" get the CP tag) or their guy returns.

As far as "forcing" it, use the clutch rating since that's supposed to be how the pitcher does in high leverage situations, which is when the closer typically (and just about always in MLBTS) pitches. At least then it can be a consideration along with the pitcher's stuff. Weight it "heavily" for the closer role if you must and give the "real" closers 85+ with the rest of the ratings to their production (at least then you could play it off as "not having closer experience" with it being reflected in an actual in-game state - his clutch rating - instead of pure imagination). Then, if the AI wants to groom a guy, it can use the Simulated Game (I think that's it) training, that raises PCLT.

I mean, I think it's silly to watch the CPU teams ride with some "closer" with a 6 ERA and -12 on all his progression while a young stud "RP" doesn't get even the opportunity to try because he doesn't have "CP" by his name, regardless of his 95+ heat and nasty off-speed. I don't envision that to be "like MLB" any more than Chapman not being the Reds closer because you took his "CP tag" away (assuming that would happen, which would be really...bad on the AI).

Just my feelings. Granted, I admit I'm against "predefined tags" of any kind in sports games because I don't think that's how real players are placed/used.

And, yeah, I can edit - but I also think the AI should see a 39-year-old with poor stuff and poor performance and think "maybe we should give that kid with the 97 MPH fastball a chance. Can't be any worse".

[Knight165]

Re: SP, RP, CP Positions

Like I said...if you make all pitchers RP...it's going to go with best available.
But a team like Colorado...or Milwuakee...rides one guy...without the CP role....you wouldn't get that necessarily......
Or in the case of the Mets.....if Parnell and Mejia were both healthy....I think the game would go with Parnell....while I think the Mets IRL would make him a setup guy and go with Mejia from here on out...If I didn't the ratings.....your way there would be nothing I could do but live with it. But I can simply make Parnell a RP and Mejia a CP....viola!

You guys asking for no designation ALREADY have that ability...why would your want to REMOVE the flip side?

M.K.
Knight165

[Mrmagoo]

Re: SP, RP, CP Positions

So then how would you "force" the CPU to keep a player as a closer then?(if you are a stickler for MLB parity)
If you remove the designation.....it's locking you from making the CPU put a pitcher in as closer.
If you simply put everyone as a RP....it's going to choose the "best" option.
Both worlds ....
Just sayin'

M.K.
Knight165

Surely you must have meant to respond to someone else. I have never said they should drop the designation.
I simply said they could possible rewrite some of the AI logic in regards to roster decisions.
That would be the best of this world (baseball sim)
Just saying...

[Knight165]

Re: SP, RP, CP Positions

Surely you must have meant to respond to someone else. I have never said they should drop the designation.
I simply said they could possible rewrite some of the AI logic in regards to roster decisions.
That would be the best of this world (baseball sim)
Just saying...

Fair enough.
But making all RP's and CP's .....RP's....that logic is already in place.
"Best" RP is put at CP most of the time.

M.K.
Knight165

[reyes the roof]

Re: SP, RP, CP Positions

One possible solution is to have a 2nd position designation like the position players have. That way if your closer goes down, someone on the major league roster who has closer as his 2nd position can slide in, rather than calling up a designated closer from AAA or AA to make his debut as a closer

[Knight165]

Re: SP, RP, CP Positions

One possible solution is to have a 2nd position designation like the position players have. That way if your closer goes down, someone on the major league roster who has closer as his 2nd position can slide in, rather than calling up a designated closer from AAA or AA to make his debut as a closer

That's a great idea!

M.K.
Knight165

[Bobhead]

Re: SP, RP, CP Positions

Or just only give the CP tag to the team's current closer? Why are minor league players getting marked as a Closer in the first place? That's really the silly part, when you think about it. No one is a closer until they get to the MLB level and prove themselves as one. If you're a closer, you wouldn't still be at the AA level!

Thus the solution is incredibly simple. The CP tag should be off limits for all players without MLB service time, including prospects, and computer-generated players.

(unless I manually edit it on).

[Heroesandvillains]

Re: SP, RP, CP Positions

Let's back this up a second and talk about whether the CP role is even working properly in played games. Full disclosure: I have Manager Hook at 4 so perhaps this is why this is happening.

In save situations against the CPU (meaning I'm the one losing) a lot of times, the CPU isn't even bringing in their closer at all or when they do, it's after an out or two has already been recorded in the 9th.

For instance, I was playing a game the other day. The CPU rallied in the 8th to take the lead and they started the 9th with their setup guy (he pitched the 8th). After he recorded two outs, they then brought in their closer to record the final out.

I've seen a bunch of instances where this or something similar has happened. It's almost as if the CPU isn't "preparing" for their closer to pitch in the event they make a comeback. Like they simply don't have enough time to warm the guy up and they surprise themselves by taking the lead.

Has anyone else seen this?

[HopiDesertPriest]

Re: SP, RP, CP Positions

Let's back this up a second and talk about whether the CP role is even working properly in played games. Full disclosure: I have Manager Hook at 4 so perhaps this is why this is happening.

In save situations against the CPU (meaning I'm the one losing) a lot of times, the CPU isn't even bringing in their closer at all or when they do, it's after an out or two has already been recorded in the 9th.

For instance, I was playing a game the other day. The CPU rallied in the 8th to take the lead and they started the 9th with their setup guy (he pitched the 8th). After he recorded two outs, they then brought in their closer to record the final out.

I've seen a bunch of instances where this or something similar has happened. It's almost as if the CPU isn't "preparing" for their closer to pitch in the event they make a comeback. Like they simply don't have enough time to warm the guy up and they surprise themselves by taking the lead.

Has anyone else seen this?

yes, I have seen this. that is why I usually make cpu pitching decisions to get correct late-game match-ups and save opps.

[KBLover]

Re: SP, RP, CP Positions

Let's back this up a second and talk about whether the CP role is even working properly in played games. Full disclosure: I have Manager Hook at 4 so perhaps this is why this is happening.

In save situations against the CPU (meaning I'm the one losing) a lot of times, the CPU isn't even bringing in their closer at all or when they do, it's after an out or two has already been recorded in the 9th.

For instance, I was playing a game the other day. The CPU rallied in the 8th to take the lead and they started the 9th with their setup guy (he pitched the 8th). After he recorded two outs, they then brought in their closer to record the final out.

I've seen a bunch of instances where this or something similar has happened. It's almost as if the CPU isn't "preparing" for their closer to pitch in the event they make a comeback. Like they simply don't have enough time to warm the guy up and they surprise themselves by taking the lead.

Has anyone else seen this?

Yep, I've seen that. I have my hook on 2 so it should be faster and maybe that's why it's not a serious a problem as it could be for me.

Or they have guys warming that aren't the closer even with the lead in the 8th (so they should be setting up for the 9th), but then it will go through like 2 pitchers first and then closer comes out.

Seems like it should use the mound visit if need be to buy time for the closer if they were indeed "surprised" by a turn in the game or don't have their bullpen set up for whatever reason.

[Heroesandvillains]

Re: SP, RP, CP Positions

Yep, I've seen that. I have my hook on 2 so it should be faster and maybe that's why it's not a serious a problem as it could be for me.

Or they have guys warming that aren't the closer even with the lead in the 8th (so they should be setting up for the 9th), but then it will go through like 2 pitchers first and then closer comes out.

Seems like it should use the mound visit if need be to buy time for the closer if they were indeed "surprised" by a turn in the game or don't have their bullpen set up for whatever reason.

Thanks. I think you described the issue I'm seeing better than I did.

One thing though; doesn't dropping hook make managers LESS LIKELY to pull a pitcher? I think you defined it reversed to how it actually should be effecting you.

Otherwise, yes. Good post. I see the same stuff in the same exact way. It's actually a rarity for me to see a save situation work the way it should. I wonder if even dropping the hook slider one click (let alone 3 clicks for you) is the cause?