Pitchers release points.

[Klayups]

Do they matter?

Should they matter? Should there be swing timing bonus/minuses based on different pitchers?

One of the things that make baseball so interesting is the pitcher batter duel, this is obvious. But if you ever play vs the computer (as most of us do) it doesn't seem like having a pitcher with a unique delivery matters,

Can we as a community come up with a way to make it matter?

Something that makes sense and results in a in game mechanic that makes the game challenging and fun?

Release points should matter when you're playing a lot more. I;m just not sure how and wanted to open the discussion to the community.

[nomo17k]

Re: Pitchers release points.

The game does have a concept of release point, in that the pitches from side arm or guys with submarine-type delivery do break differently (i.e., a slider from side-arm breaks more laterally, not horizontally).

Also, we can see how important recognize pitch release when we face pitchers with glitchy deliveries in the game... (e.g., Fernando Salas delivery in this year's game seems to have the pitch coming out slightly offset from where his wrist snaps... which makes it difficult for me to pick up his pitches).

I think the concept of deception (due to pitch delivery) is often discussed among baseball people but still relatively unexplored with analytic minds as in sabermetrics and such. In that I'm not sure how accurately that part of baseball can be realistically reflected in the game, but I agree in general it would be fantastic if that affects the pitcher-batter matchup more significantly.

To some extent, though, some pitches probably are already harder to pick up in the game than in real life (e.g., change up).

[mr9inchesbpel]

Re: Pitchers release points.

The game does have a concept of release point, in that the pitches from side arm or guys with submarine-type delivery do break differently (i.e., a slider from side-arm breaks more laterally, not horizontally).

Also, we can see how important recognize pitch release when we face pitchers with glitchy deliveries in the game... (e.g., Fernando Salas delivery in this year's game seems to have the pitch coming out slightly offset from where his wrist snaps... which makes it difficult for me to pick up his pitches).

I think the concept of deception (due to pitch delivery) is often discussed among baseball people but still relatively unexplored with analytic minds as in sabermetrics and such. In that I'm not sure how accurately that part of baseball can be realistically reflected in the game, but I agree in general it would be fantastic if that affects the pitcher-batter matchup more significantly.

To some extent, though, some pitches probably are already harder to pick up in the game than in real life (e.g., change up).

Yeah outside of some glitchy animations this seems to be done pretty well in the game and much better then years previous.

What exactly is the OP asking for to be changed here?

[Klayups]

Re: Pitchers release points.

Yeah outside of some glitchy animations this seems to be done pretty well in the game and much better then years previous.

What exactly is the OP asking for to be changed here?

When you are playing vs the computer do you feel having a pitcher like Neshak who has a "different" arm angle release point gives you an advantage?

That is the point.

[nomo17k]

Re: Pitchers release points.

When you are playing vs the computer do you feel having a pitcher like Neshak who has a "different" arm angle release point gives you an advantage?

That is the point.

Pitching against CPU, I don't feel the difference as much... so there are definitely improvements to be made there.

However, it does greatly against Human opponents. In fact, most online guys (not me) complain about using side-arm pitchers to the extent that in a mode like Diamond Dynasty the game started restricting their usage.

[mr9inchesbpel]

Re: Pitchers release points.

When you are playing vs the computer do you feel having a pitcher like Neshak who has a "different" arm angle release point gives you an advantage?

That is the point.

If you can use the pitches that break to the side and locate them ( sliders, cutters, sinkers ) it can help but yeah the AI, doesn't seem like they are programmed to have issues picking up a pitcher with a side arm delivery.

Against other humans, yes it matters or when the computer brings in a pitcher with that delivery.

But how exactly could Sony put this into play anyway, maybe make it so they are more likely to chase sliders breaking away out of the zone from a side arm pitcher?

[Klayups]

Re: Pitchers release points.

If you can use the pitches that break to the side and locate them ( sliders, cutters, sinkers ) it can help but yeah the AI, doesn't seem like they are programmed to have issues picking up a pitcher with a side arm delivery.

Against other humans, yes it matters or when the computer brings in a pitcher with that delivery.

But how exactly could Sony put this into play anyway, maybe make it so they are more likely to chase sliders breaking away out of the zone from a side arm pitcher?

Thats the purpose of this thread...so we can discuss the possibilities.

[Klayups]

Re: Pitchers release points.

I was thinking

Maybe there could be a "eye" rating and a "delivery" rating that work with/against each other.

This way having a guy with a funky delivery / release point holds a little more weight.

[cardinalbird5]

Re: Pitchers release points.

Its represented in their per nines usually.

Id like to see this game to start adding perks or badges to players to make them more unique. Give Chris Gomez first pitch swinger badge and Neshek some type of nasty slider badge or some bonus I dk . Give certain hitters a fastball badge or breaking ball badge. I think PYS has alot of stuff like this.

As for this thread....ill say it again....the per nine attributes mean alot vs cpu so that's the best they can do. Maybe if they added a perk to downgrade right handed hitters vs Neshek?

[mr9inchesbpel]

Re: Pitchers release points.

Its represented in their per nines usually.

Id like to see this game to start adding perks or badges to players to make them more unique. Give Chris Gomez first pitch swinger badge and Neshek some type of nasty slider badge or some bonus I dk . Give certain hitters a fastball badge or breaking ball badge. I think PYS has alot of stuff like this.

As for this thread....ill say it again....the per nine attributes mean alot vs cpu so that's the best they can do. Maybe if they added a perk to downgrade right handed hitters vs Neshek?

Didn't some older 2K games have Inside edge that showed player tendencies which would show on how likely they are to swing or take pitches, to go after the first pitch, chase on two strikes, or what sort of pitch a pitcher usually throws? Did this actually change the AI or was it just for show? Maybe for next year SCEA could implement something like this.

[Armor and Sword]

Re: Pitchers release points.

IRL release points are a critical part of hitting.

On The Show I make a concerted effort to pick up on the release point of any pitcher I am facing, so I can pick up the pitch better.

[nomo17k]

Re: Pitchers release points.

I was thinking

Maybe there could be a "eye" rating and a "delivery" rating that work with/against each other.

This way having a guy with a funky delivery / release point holds a little more weight.

I think the combination of Plate Vision and Plate Discipline as well as the Pitch Break attributes should in principle affect the aspect of the game we are talking about... but I personally feel they don't respond as differently to different pitch types as I feel they should. And I don't feel as wide a separation between CPU hitters in their ability to lay off (bad) pitches.

Another point is, I think much of what we call deception in pitch release is probably due to the difficulty of picking up different pitches coming out of hand, and given that no pitchers really tip their pitches in the game (their delivery is always consistent, unlike real-life pitchers), we could probably say that they are as deceptive as they can be, in terms of their delivery. And it's probably unrealistic for us to expect that the game will replicating "tipping" pitches based on slight difference in pitch delivery.

More likely way to incorporate deception is to make it harder to pick up different pitches right off the release point. Right now, it's not impossible (although still difficult and takes time) to distinguish different pitches right after the release (in part because 4SFB is REALLY straight in this game), but we could imagine the game making it slightly tougher to judge different pitches in their initial trajectories out of pitcher's hand.

[cardinalbird5]

Re: Pitchers release points.

Didn't some older 2K games have Inside edge that showed player tendencies which would show on how likely they are to swing or take pitches, to go after the first pitch, chase on two strikes, or what sort of pitch a pitcher usually throws? Did this actually change the AI or was it just for show? Maybe for next year SCEA could implement something like this.

Yeah and that was cool, but that isn't quite the same thing I am talking about. Those were derived from precise statistics and it showed you the percentages of when a pitcher would throw a certain pitch. It was cool, but I want something in the game to distinguish their tendencies (hitting, fielding, baserunning, and pitching) and characteristics other than a percentage. There were also passive skills, such as players hitting better during the summer or pitchers doing better in cooler weather or hitters hitting better at certain spots in the lineup. PYS had tons of these "special skills" and it was really cool. I'd be content with something like special skills or the 2k Insider thing. I just want something to dictate individual MLB players a bit more other than the basic Con/Pwr vs R/L and Pvis/Pdisc.

[Klayups]

Re: Pitchers release points.

Good discussion guys, thanks.