Contract editing issue...

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  • Unlucky 13
    MVP
    • Apr 2009
    • 1707

    #16
    Re: Contract editing issue...

    OK, a few updates for anyone who's curious.

    I've simmed through 2015 four times while doing all of the off field stuff with the Cubs.

    During two of the four seasons, there were MAJOR trades going down, such as Cano for Stanton (happened twice). Not as many trades as in previous generations of the Show, but major players being moved, without question.

    However, there were far, far fewer players actually put up on the block. I'm curious as to whether this has to do with not yet playing with the OSFM rosters, as I've not played without them in years prior to this.

    After the 2015 season, almost all of the big name pitchers resign with their existing clubs every time. I say Cueto reach free agency once, but never Zimmerman, Shark, Price, or the other guys who are expected to be there in real life this fall. Price always signs a huge deal with Detriot, and the others sign one or two year deals with their current clubs. Obviously, that's not realistic.

    The only young high end position player that I've seen reach free agency is Jason Heyward, who did most of the time. Other than that, most of the free agents in the pool are generally age 33 or older. In most cases, teams are resigning their own young-ish guys (late 20s) to 1-3 year deals and letting the older guys test the market.

    I have not seen any high end players simply go unsigned after 2015. Some often take a long time to sign, such as well into January, but by February, the only guys left are either very old (35+) or very low end.

    There were probably fewer offseason trades between CPU teams, however, I often was offered trades myself in the offseason, which I cannot remember ever happening before, and that was great.

    As has always been the case, young players being unsigned until they're renewed or go through arbitration leads to very few vet for prospect trades, which is the opposite of real life.

    I only simmed through the 2016 offseason once to far, but I found the results to be mostly similar. The small sample size may be decieving though.

    Lastly, something that very well could be effecting lack of spending into the future are payroll reductions. In my franchise, my goals were to win my division and win the world series. Through four seasons, I had a winning record but missed the playoffs once, made it as the WC twice, and won the division once, losing in the WS that year.

    In every season where I didn't win the division, my budget was reduced by 10%, which was about a 15 mil cut. In the season where I lost the WS, my budget remained flat. If this is going on with the rest of the clubs, I could see it seriously eroding payroll room around the league.
    Anyone who claims to be a fan of two teams in the same pro sport is actually a fan of none.

    Comment

    • tabarnes19_SDS
      Game Designer
      • Feb 2003
      • 3084

      #17
      Re: Contract editing issue...

      Players signed late in the offseason, were they signed real cheap?

      The Show built in a few years ago a system where good players unsigned late in the offseason will sign cheap deals to not go unsigned.

      Trades slow up because the system sees the players as a poor fit due to the "perceived" over value. Plus teams only have 10 million spare to begin a franchise. To trade players salaries would have to match up.

      Baseball is young so many players are hitting arbitration and due raises in the offseason.

      The editing of contacts, right now, is good to get years and maybe a few over priced contracts in. Mass Editing won't work until the contract system is reworked to have the system offer deals relative to what real mlb deals are.

      Comment

      • Unlucky 13
        MVP
        • Apr 2009
        • 1707

        #18
        Re: Contract editing issue...

        Originally posted by tabarnes19
        Players signed late in the offseason, were they signed real cheap?

        The Show built in a few years ago a system where good players unsigned late in the offseason will sign cheap deals to not go unsigned.

        Trades slow up because the system sees the players as a poor fit due to the "perceived" over value. Plus teams only have 10 million spare to begin a franchise. To trade players salaries would have to match up.

        Baseball is young so many players are hitting arbitration and due raises in the offseason.

        The editing of contacts, right now, is good to get years and maybe a few over priced contracts in. Mass Editing won't work until the contract system is reworked to have the system offer deals relative to what real mlb deals are.
        High end older players signed later in the offseason still got big deals. Often Jose Bautista signs for like 3 years, 45 mil and a few pitchers are like that too.

        I've noted that once you hit the week where the arbitration cases are held, anyone left will sign a one year deal for the minimum if offered. However, pickings are often very slim, and the higher end guys left (ratings in the mid 70s) are at the very end of their careers. Good way to fill out your bench or bullpen with a few vets if you want to though.
        Anyone who claims to be a fan of two teams in the same pro sport is actually a fan of none.

        Comment

        • WaitTilNextYear
          Go Cubs Go
          • Mar 2013
          • 16830

          #19
          Re: Contract editing issue...

          Came upon this thread and wanted to share my data that I've posted elsewhere:

          http://www.operationsports.com/forum...5&postcount=16
          Chicago Cubs | Chicago Bulls | Green Bay Packers | Michigan Wolverines

          Comment

          • Unlucky 13
            MVP
            • Apr 2009
            • 1707

            #20
            Re: Contract editing issue...

            Originally posted by WaitTilNextYear
            Came upon this thread and wanted to share my data that I've posted elsewhere:

            http://www.operationsports.com/forum...5&postcount=16
            OK, thanks for the info man.

            For me, as someone who

            A) Contract accuracy is hugely, hugely important for my own enjoyment, and
            B) Will almost certainly never play or sim past 2018

            Its mostly a non issue. However, I can see how it might be for others.
            Anyone who claims to be a fan of two teams in the same pro sport is actually a fan of none.

            Comment

            • geisterhome
              MVP
              • Sep 2011
              • 2101

              #21
              Re: Contract editing issue...

              Originally posted by RidinDwnKingsley
              I saw this as well during testing, for OSFM V1 we will make sure years are correct but wont touch $$$ on mega contracts


              Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
              Great news. Editing those contracts will mess up more than it'll do to increase the realism.
              Spending time with Jesus!

              -Glad to be an Operation Sports Member!-

              Comment

              • johntait1
                Rookie
                • Feb 2015
                • 116

                #22
                Re: Contract editing issue...

                I already posted this on another thread, but I was wondering on if making player contracts proportional to the in game budget would work? What I mean is real life player salary*in game team budget/real life team budget. That way all the teams would still have a budget that adds up to the in game one, but the players would have a contract value that is proportional to real life, so players who are on team friendly contracts would still have them(relatively) in game and teams would still try to get rid of "bad" contracts(relative to the other values of contracts in the game).

                If someone would be willing to try this for OSFM and Hybrid it'd be much appreciated.

                Comment

                • tabarnes19_SDS
                  Game Designer
                  • Feb 2003
                  • 3084

                  #23
                  Re: Contract editing issue...

                  Originally posted by johntait1
                  I already posted this on another thread, but I was wondering on if making player contracts proportional to the in game budget would work? What I mean is real life player salary*in game team budget/real life team budget. That way all the teams would still have a budget that adds up to the in game one, but the players would have a contract value that is proportional to real life, so players who are on team friendly contracts would still have them(relatively) in game and teams would still try to get rid of "bad" contracts(relative to the other values of contracts in the game).

                  If someone would be willing to try this for OSFM and Hybrid it'd be much appreciated.
                  The problem with that is after season 1 the cpu is going to sign players at the rate/formula that it has developed.

                  I want realistic contracts as much as the next guy, but the impact on trade logic alone is not worth it to me.

                  I'm going to edit years and some of the bad contracts in baseball and that's it.

                  Comment

                  • Unlucky 13
                    MVP
                    • Apr 2009
                    • 1707

                    #24
                    Re: Contract editing issue...

                    One thing that I was concerned about was that once a team's budget got to a certain level, it wouldn't go up anymore. As I said, in my four Cubs seasons, despite having a winning record every year and making the playoffs 3/4, my payroll went down 3/4 years and stayed flat the other one. (started around 160 mil every season)

                    However, as WaitTilNextYear showed in his spreadsheet, some team's payrolls will rise, even when they're around the 200 mil mark, if they meet their goals (whatever those happen to be). And I see some teams in there who's year to year went up about 15%, so it can happen. It's just going to be harder than in years' past, when any winning record pretty much guaranteed a raise of 10% or so.

                    And I for one love seeing teams that have been stupid with their money - signing aging players to huge deals - get what's coming to them via karma, even if it's not what's going to happen in real life (some teams will raise budgets forever).

                    The more I think about it, the only problem that I have is that many of the GM goals seem unrealistically high. Expecting a third of the teams to win the WS in a 3 year window, for example.
                    Last edited by Unlucky 13; 04-08-2015, 12:26 PM.
                    Anyone who claims to be a fan of two teams in the same pro sport is actually a fan of none.

                    Comment

                    • adamj2281
                      Pro
                      • Mar 2008
                      • 814

                      #25
                      Re: Contract editing issue...

                      Originally posted by johntait1
                      I already posted this on another thread, but I was wondering on if making player contracts proportional to the in game budget would work? What I mean is real life player salary*in game team budget/real life team budget. That way all the teams would still have a budget that adds up to the in game one, but the players would have a contract value that is proportional to real life, so players who are on team friendly contracts would still have them(relatively) in game and teams would still try to get rid of "bad" contracts(relative to the other values of contracts in the game).

                      If someone would be willing to try this for OSFM and Hybrid it'd be much appreciated.
                      There's a post where tabernes or someone modified certain contracts to simulate this. It should be percentage based, or at least relatively comparable, so......for example, Ryan Howard's ratings are lower and the system gives him a somewhat lower salary than actual, I'll increase these to at least be the among the highest on his individual team so that it's at least comparatively a burden.

                      Comment

                      • cardsfan2222
                        Pro
                        • Apr 2009
                        • 872

                        #26
                        Re: Contract editing issue...

                        I started a Cardinals franchise and simmed to the offseason to see how everything worked. No matter what type of contract I offered to Jason Heyward, I would get a message the next day that the Cardinals could not afford his contract and the offer was withdrawn. I had 60 million in available budget, and even offering 1 year at 8 million would say I couldn't afford him. I don't do 30 team control, so it looks like I won't be unable to re-sign him after this year.

                        Comment

                        • tabarnes19_SDS
                          Game Designer
                          • Feb 2003
                          • 3084

                          #27
                          Re: Contract editing issue...

                          Originally posted by cardsfan2222
                          I started a Cardinals franchise and simmed to the offseason to see how everything worked. No matter what type of contract I offered to Jason Heyward, I would get a message the next day that the Cardinals could not afford his contract and the offer was withdrawn. I had 60 million in available budget, and even offering 1 year at 8 million would say I couldn't afford him. I don't do 30 team control, so it looks like I won't be unable to re-sign him after this year.
                          It's the steps needed to complete the offseason. http://www.operationsports.com/forum...offseason.html

                          Comment

                          • Unlucky 13
                            MVP
                            • Apr 2009
                            • 1707

                            #28
                            Re: Contract editing issue...

                            Originally posted by tabarnes19
                            It's the steps needed to complete the offseason. http://www.operationsports.com/forum...offseason.html
                            I never knew that about the 40 man. Answers a few questions I've had in the past too.

                            I've had that same thing "you cannot offer a contract to him", when I have twice as much budget room as his yearly salary would be, taking everything into account.
                            Anyone who claims to be a fan of two teams in the same pro sport is actually a fan of none.

                            Comment

                            • cardsfan2222
                              Pro
                              • Apr 2009
                              • 872

                              #29
                              Re: Contract editing issue...

                              Originally posted by tabarnes19
                              It's the steps needed to complete the offseason. http://www.operationsports.com/forum...offseason.html
                              Thank you. This is the first time I've bought the game since 2012, so a lot of things have changed since then.

                              Comment

                              • johntait1
                                Rookie
                                • Feb 2015
                                • 116

                                #30
                                Re: Contract editing issue...

                                Originally posted by tabarnes19
                                The problem with that is after season 1 the cpu is going to sign players at the rate/formula that it has developed.

                                I want realistic contracts as much as the next guy, but the impact on trade logic alone is not worth it to me.

                                I'm going to edit years and some of the bad contracts in baseball and that's it.
                                Could you explain how this would be a problem? All the contracts using my idea would add up to the in game budget right? So the CPU signing at the in game formula would still fit in the budget, since the budget with the edited contracts would be the same as the original in game one, just that some players have relatively higher contracts and some have relatively lower ones than the original SCEA ones.

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