Pitcher Makeup explanation?

[bigd51]

Does anyone have a clear cut explanation for exactly how the individual makeup stats for a pitcher work?

For example, I know H/9affects your ability to limit solid contact and HR/9 affects your ability to limit HR's... but how does it happen? What aspects of the pitcher or batter does these things change to make them limit HR's and H/9?

[nickoppel]

Re: Pitcher Makeup explanation?

For Example: If a pitcher has H/9 greater than 90 the chances are very low for the batter to get hits through 9 innings but with thats said, Clayton Kershaw can still give up 9 hits. It just has a low chance for the batter

[nickoppel]

Re: Pitcher Makeup explanation?

Does anyone have a clear cut explanation for exactly how the individual makeup stats for a pitcher work?

For example, I know H/9affects your ability to limit solid contact and HR/9 affects your ability to limit HR's... but how does it happen? What aspects of the pitcher or batter does these things change to make them limit HR's and H/9?

For the second part of your question. If the batter has high plate vision and contact they are likely to raise the chances of a hit

[TheWarmWind]

Re: Pitcher Makeup explanation?

I'd need someone to confirm it, but I think it goes something like this:

H/9: is used along with the batters contact stat in order to create the size of the plate coverage indicator. Pitchers with higher H/9 will have batters that cover less of the plate.

K/9: Is combined with each individual pitch's movement stat, the pitchers pitching animation, pitch velocity, and the pitchers current stamina level in order to calculate how much/how sharply and in what exact direction a pitch moves.

BB/9: is combined with each individual pitch's control stat, pitch velocity, and current stamina level in order to determine the amount of control a pitcher has over a pitch. Pitchers with high BB/9 will be able to put the pitch where they want more often.

HR/9: is combined with pitch velocity, pitch type, and pitch location, along with the batters power rating, swing timing, and hot zones in order to determine the distance a ball travels off a batters bat. Pitchers with high H/9 will have the ball travel less on them.

Clutch: Determines how much a pitchers stats are effected by having runners on base, especially in scoring position. Pitchers with high clutch are barely effected by these situations.

Edit: I believe K/9 also combines with the batters plate vision in order to determine if a pitch near the plate coverage indicator is a foul ball or a swing through when swung at. I'm sure I'm missing some stuff. The "intangible ratings" are tough to explain.

[KBLover]

Re: Pitcher Makeup explanation?

Does anyone have a clear cut explanation for exactly how the individual makeup stats for a pitcher work?

For example, I know H/9affects your ability to limit solid contact and HR/9 affects your ability to limit HR's... but how does it happen? What aspects of the pitcher or batter does these things change to make them limit HR's and H/9?

HR/9 does nothing in "live" games (i.e. ones that play out on the screen). It only has impact on sim games, sadly.

As for how, this is what I think:

-H/9: shrinks the PCI for the opposing hitter, making it harder to get it "on the ball". Probably also lowers the success rate/hit chance when the PCI is "on the ball". For CPU hitters and Directional, impacts the chances the PCI will be "on the ball". Counters Contact rating.

-BB/9: This impacts how close the "aim point" will be to where the pitcher wants it (where you want it when you control the pitcher, i.e. like the control slider). It probably has some impact for meter/pulse but I don't know what they are. On Classic, it likely impacts the degree of error and how bad those errors are and perhaps the accuracy when you do max effort or with this year's slide step.

-K/9: Shrinks the PCI and timing window. Decreases the likelihood of contact in general and especially when the PCI is "off the ball". Counters Plate Vision.

-Velocity: Self-explanatory vs human batters and works to disrupt timing for CPU batters. I believe I read on here some time back that velocity also impacts solid contact chance and is the "HR/9 rating", so to speak, for "live" games.

-Control: Impacts the chances of really bad misses (i.e. consistency slider) and very wild pitches. Control seems to impact whether or not that pitch that's off the plate ends up hitting the batter or going to the backstop as opposed to BB/9 which impacts if it leaks over the plate/down the middle.

-Movement: This aids in creating strikeouts and fooling batters on the movement of the pitch itself. Seems to dictate where they try to swing based on where they think the pitch will be as it crosses the zone. This might also challenge Discipline if the pitch starts or looks in the zone but breaks out?

-Clutch: Modifier to the above when there's runners on base. I assume it's when the controller vibrates as it only does so in certain situations, but that might just be an indicator of a different sort (or perhaps not at all, just trying to emulate tense moments, etc).


Examples: Nate Jones is a 60's H/9, 85-ish K/9. When he's on, he gets K's, but if the hitters start zoning in on his pitches, he's in trouble. The ball can get hit really hard off him then.

Aaron Sanchez is similar, a notch better (70's H/9, 97 K/9).

With guys like this, I can tell if they are "off" if they aren't getting K's OR every out they get is via K. That's trouble in the making. The CPU gets its PCI "on the ball" and it's hit hard, but if the K/9 "procs" then it's a K.

Clay Huff is an 80 H/9 with like 20 K/9 (literally). He has a hard time striking out anyone...result? TONS OF FOUL BALLS. Just foul foul foul foul foul foul. Hitters can't hit him solidly a lot of times, but since the timing window and PCI are wide and he can't counter PVis nicely...well...FOUL FOUL FOUL FOUL FOUL

Jose Fernandez is 90's in both K/9 and H/9 (99 H/9 I believe). Unless he's "off" or a lot of "unlucky" things go against him, he's shrinking timing windows and the PCI AND if they do get "on the ball", the chance of a good hit is low. Only hope is that his 60's control and BB/9 betray him enough to get some meatballs and hanging curves.

Just my thoughts based on what I think I see comparing stats to my player's ratings and how they perform during games.

[tessl]

Re: Pitcher Makeup explanation?

HR/9 does nothing in "live" games (i.e. ones that play out on the screen). It only has impact on sim games, sadly.

As for how, this is what I think:

-H/9: shrinks the PCI for the opposing hitter, making it harder to get it "on the ball". Probably also lowers the success rate/hit chance when the PCI is "on the ball". For CPU hitters and Directional, impacts the chances the PCI will be "on the ball". Counters Contact rating.

-BB/9: This impacts how close the "aim point" will be to where the pitcher wants it (where you want it when you control the pitcher, i.e. like the control slider). It probably has some impact for meter/pulse but I don't know what they are. On Classic, it likely impacts the degree of error and how bad those errors are and perhaps the accuracy when you do max effort or with this year's slide step.

-K/9: Shrinks the PCI and timing window. Decreases the likelihood of contact in general and especially when the PCI is "off the ball". Counters Plate Vision.

-Velocity: Self-explanatory vs human batters and works to disrupt timing for CPU batters. I believe I read on here some time back that velocity also impacts solid contact chance and is the "HR/9 rating", so to speak, for "live" games.

-Control: Impacts the chances of really bad misses (i.e. consistency slider) and very wild pitches. Control seems to impact whether or not that pitch that's off the plate ends up hitting the batter or going to the backstop as opposed to BB/9 which impacts if it leaks over the plate/down the middle.

-Movement: This aids in creating strikeouts and fooling batters on the movement of the pitch itself. Seems to dictate where they try to swing based on where they think the pitch will be as it crosses the zone. This might also challenge Discipline if the pitch starts or looks in the zone but breaks out?

-Clutch: Modifier to the above when there's runners on base. I assume it's when the controller vibrates as it only does so in certain situations, but that might just be an indicator of a different sort (or perhaps not at all, just trying to emulate tense moments, etc).


Just my thoughts based on what I think I see comparing stats to my player's ratings and how they perform during games.

I knew the hr/9 information, didn't know the control and movement stuff. Thanks for posting that.


I've never seen clutch explained but a possible clue was a couple years ago in pitch analysis there was a filter for risp/clutch.

The only time pitches showed up on that screen was when a runner was in scoring position in a tied game IIRC.

[bigd51]

Re: Pitcher Makeup explanation?

Man, that makes so much sense now. I've been trying to figure out just what exactly to look for in a pitcher for a few years now and the only thing I've been able to come up with is make sure the pitcher has a high H/9 rating. Any time I see a pitcher with a low H/9, I always stay away because it feels like that's the only rating that matter, really, to avoid high ERA's. I've even gotten to the point where I didn't feel the pitchers velocity and movement mattered, only control.

Thanks guys for taking the time to go into detail like that. The hardest part for me was figuring out what's factored in and how it impacts the game, so that's gonna help me a lot.

[bigd51]

Re: Pitcher Makeup explanation?

Another question, if you don't mind... is a pitcher's makeup a factor when simming through games and fast-forwarding in-game? I'm assuming it does, correct?

[TheWarmWind]

Re: Pitcher Makeup explanation?

Another question, if you don't mind... is a pitcher's makeup a factor when simming through games and fast-forwarding in-game? I'm assuming it does, correct?

I'm not sure but I would bet that it does. I sim all my minor league games and I have pitchers who have MLB ready pitch speed, control and movement, yet they still don't rise above the rest of the pack because the "intangibles" (H/9, BB/9, etc) aren't there yet, and it shows in the results.

[bigd51]

Re: Pitcher Makeup explanation?

I'm not sure but I would bet that it does. I sim all my minor league games and I have pitchers who have MLB ready pitch speed, control and movement, yet they still don't rise above the rest of the pack because the "intangibles" (H/9, BB/9, etc) aren't there yet, and it shows in the results.

When it comes to pitchers, what do you mostly focus on in training? For me, the only thing I really train is makeup and let the other stats just grow naturally. I just haven't found the need to really train any other stats as the makeup seems to be the dominant stat that defines a pitchers performance. I've had older guys losing velocity, control, and break at a rapid pace, but kept performing well when simming due to their high makeup stats. On the flip side, it's really hard for a pitcher with a low H/9 stat to perform well at all, even if his other ratings are high, so I find them pitchers kind of pointless to use..

[KBLover]

Re: Pitcher Makeup explanation?

Another question, if you don't mind... is a pitcher's makeup a factor when simming through games and fast-forwarding in-game? I'm assuming it does, correct?

Yes - and in these situations that includes HR/9.

When it comes to pitchers, what do you mostly focus on in training? For me, the only thing I really train is makeup and let the other stats just grow naturally. I just haven't found the need to really train any other stats as the makeup seems to be the dominant stat that defines a pitchers performance. I've had older guys losing velocity, control, and break at a rapid pace, but kept performing well when simming due to their high makeup stats. On the flip side, it's really hard for a pitcher with a low H/9 stat to perform well at all, even if his other ratings are high, so I find them pitchers kind of pointless to use..

For me, it depends.

If they have good pitches (Velocity/Control/Movement), I will focus on the /9 ratings first, then some time on the pitches.

If they have decent /9, I will focus on the pitches, and then start working on the /9.

You are correctly that the /9 make up a lot of the performance if you sim those minor league games, etc. That said, if I plan to use the pitcher at the majors, or he could potentially be major league depth (like for an injury, etc), then I will try to get their pitches at least decent.

I don't consider a prospect ready until both his /9 and his pitches are at least decent. If he has just one or the other, it wouldn't work too well in "live" games, imo.

[TheWarmWind]

Re: Pitcher Makeup explanation?

When it comes to pitchers, what do you mostly focus on in training? For me, the only thing I really train is makeup and let the other stats just grow naturally. I just haven't found the need to really train any other stats as the makeup seems to be the dominant stat that defines a pitchers performance. I've had older guys losing velocity, control, and break at a rapid pace, but kept performing well when simming due to their high makeup stats. On the flip side, it's really hard for a pitcher with a low H/9 stat to perform well at all, even if his other ratings are high, so I find them pitchers kind of pointless to use..

I have a minimum of where I require pitches to be in order to consider them MLB ready, so in the end I train everything. Also, if a pitcher has a high H/9, K/9, and BB/9, I'm not really concerned about HR/9. I do have a minimum to consider a pitcher MLB ready in those stats too, but my minimum for HR/9 is really low. Once a prospect has all their stats MLB ready, the only thing I consider is in game performance, since I play all of my games.

[bigd51]

Re: Pitcher Makeup explanation?

I have a minimum of where I require pitches to be in order to consider them MLB ready, so in the end I train everything. Also, if a pitcher has a high H/9, K/9, and BB/9, I'm not really concerned about HR/9. I do have a minimum to consider a pitcher MLB ready in those stats too, but my minimum for HR/9 is really low. Once a prospect has all their stats MLB ready, the only thing I consider is in game performance, since I play all of my games.

When deciding who's 'roster ready' with position players, do you put more importance on offensive ratings over defensive or the other way around? Or do they have to meet a minimum rating for all their individual stats to get the call?

[Houston]

Re: Pitcher Makeup explanation?

I hope this might answer your questions and explain a little more.

[rjackson]

Re: Pitcher Makeup explanation?

My understanding is that HR/9 only affects better location pitches like those on the corners when playing. No affect on pitches deep in the zone, only PWR is important in that case. Look at batter analysis screen to see deep pitches.