What ball physics still lacks

**nomo17k** · 01-10-2016, 05:49 AM

Re: What ball physics still lacks

I'd also say the bouncing ball in The Show dies down a little too much too fast on each contact with the ground. I don't think we see "ground ball" in the game keeps rolling deeper into outfield/foul territory as much as we see in the real-life videos.

**HypoLuxa13** · 01-10-2016, 08:45 AM

Re: What ball physics still lacks

I agree 100%, and I've been saying the exact same thing about balls down the line for a couple years. The hook/slice applied to hard hit balls down the line, and speed at which ground balls down the line die once they reach the outfield. MLB 15 is the best baseball game I've ever played, but this is one thing I'd love to see them improve for MLB 16.

**tessl** · 01-10-2016, 11:53 AM

Re: What ball physics still lacks

Originally posted by nomo17k

I thought there used to be a thread whose primary focus was on ball physics, but it could be buried in the "last-gen" sub-forum... I have always wanted to see a thread with videos comparing real-life ball physics and that in The Show to make it easier to see what the ball physics in The Show still lacks compared to what we see in real life.

I tend to think the ball physics in The Show has become pretty good, especially the last year or two with all the variety we started seeing in poor hit variety (the kind that leads to bloopers).

One thing that's still definitely missing is "doubles down the line," and this often leads people to discuss where the issue really arises from (often fielder speed & reaction), but I'd argue one major factor causing the lack of doubles down the line is that the ball in The Show kills "side spin" as soon as it makes contact with a surface.

For example, in real life, the ball hit down the line almost always keeps rolling toward the foul territory, as it tends to have ample side spin:

Spoiler

However, in The Show, similarly batted ball always totally loses side spin upon the very fist bounce off the ground, and keeps rolling straight with top spin:

Spoiler

This is one of the major reasons why hits down the line in The Show does not lead to doubles as often as we see in real life, because the right/left fielder can get to the ball when it is still in fair territory (or around the foul line) and it never rolls deep into the foul territory.

This is one thing I think the ball physics is still missing in The Show.

Do you have statistical data showing how often balls "down the line" result in doubles IRL vs the Show? How many feet from the foul line is "down the line"?

The reason I hesitate is because I've seen SCEA change the game to fix one thing and create other problems.

**forme95** · 01-10-2016, 03:41 PM

Re: What ball physics still lacks

I was looking for something else, and found this, http://www.operationsports.com/forum...l-physics.html

Was this what you were looking for Nomo?

**HypoLuxa13** · 01-10-2016, 06:54 PM

Re: What ball physics still lacks

One more thing about this: LF and RF CPU players get to the foul lines really quickly in The Show. I think they play straight up too often. Hence so many extra base hits happen into the gaps. Rarely do the corner outfielders play shaded towards the gaps. That, combined with the ball physics of hit balls down the line leads to very few extra base hits down the line. Unless you hit a line drive INTO the corner, extra base hits are tough.

Just another observation, maybe I'm the only one who has noticed this.

**nomo17k** · 01-10-2016, 07:56 PM

Re: What ball physics still lacks

Originally posted by forme95

I was looking for something else, and found this, http://www.operationsports.com/forum...l-physics.html

Was this what you were looking for Nomo?

I've seen that thread, but I was thinking more about actual video comparison thread. It could be a thread from a few years back when what was called TruBall physics was introduced. Many interest threads from the past are in the old last-gen forum and it won't surface when searching for this specific forum I guess.

Originally posted by HypoLuxa13

One more thing about this: LF and RF CPU players get to the foul lines really quickly in The Show. I think they play straight up too often. Hence so many extra base hits happen into the gaps. Rarely do the corner outfielders play shaded towards the gaps. That, combined with the ball physics of hit balls down the line leads to very few extra base hits down the line. Unless you hit a line drive INTO the corner, extra base hits are tough.

Just another observation, maybe I'm the only one who has noticed this.

I do think there's fielder positioning/speed/route aspect, but the positioning discussion has been going on forever in this specific context (i.e., lack of certain kinds of hits), and even though things have been improving and/or changed one way or another, I think overall the frequency of doubles is still not quite right *somewhere*, and my intention in the OP is that the batted ball not slicing down the line after the very first bounce is definitely something still *off* with the current ball physics.

IIRC, a few years ago, I think we didn't really see enough doubles to the gap either (likely due to fielders being too fast/always taking the shortest pass to the ball, etc.), and I think the corner fielders were then positioned slightly more toward the foul line to make gappers happen a bit more often. But then we now see doubles to the gap quite a bit, but we get an impression that corner fielders hug the line too much and see hits to the foul line not going for doubles as often as we expect seeing real-life games. If the ball keep slicing more, then that may improve the hit variety down the line.

**saintjimbo1885** · 01-10-2016, 10:33 PM

Re: What ball physics still lacks

Doubles down the line and into the corners is something that PYS does very well.

Here's an example from a game I played tonight and although the runner just made it to second, it should be noted that he is very slow. (The blue bar bottom left indicates his speed.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5uMmOUKYQc

And another!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQi43YkGt6g

**Will I Am** · 01-11-2016, 12:58 AM

Re: What ball physics still lacks

Originally posted by saintjimbo1885

Doubles down the line and into the corners is something that PYS does very well.

Here's an example from a game I played tonight and although the runner just made it to second, it should be noted that he is very slow. (The blue bar bottom left indicates his speed.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5uMmOUKYQc

And another!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQi43YkGt6g

I love that game.

**seanjeezy** · 01-12-2016, 01:20 AM

Re: What ball physics still lacks

Originally posted by nomo17k

I'd also say the bouncing ball in The Show dies down a little too much too fast on each contact with the ground. I don't think we see "ground ball" in the game keeps rolling deeper into outfield/foul territory as much as we see in the real-life videos.

There has to be a friction coefficient issue because the grass absolutely kills the majority of the momentum the ball has. Maybe the coefficient used is for longer grown grass?

Batted balls clearly have enough exit velocity since fly balls that hit the wall have relatively strong ricochets (unless the elasticity of the padding is off as well).

I think I've brought this up before in previous physics discussions - is it possible to hit a ground ball as hard as a line drive or a home run in this game, or are ground balls a product of "bad" contact? I think this was answered before but I honestly don't remember.

**nomo17k** · 01-12-2016, 04:21 AM

Re: What ball physics still lacks

Originally posted by seanjeezy

There has to be a friction coefficient issue because the grass absolutely kills the majority of the momentum the ball has. Maybe the coefficient used is for longer grown grass?

Batted balls clearly have enough exit velocity since fly balls that hit the wall have relatively strong ricochets (unless the elasticity of the padding is off as well).

I doubt the contact between the ball and (any) surface in the game is rigorously modeled in terms of physics (primarily because it's unnecessary; simpler model would make the ball move just as realistic), so I don't know if it's friction coefficient per se, but it does look like bouncing off the ground takes momentum in the direction of motion away a bit much. In most real-life videos like the ones I cited, the ball can keep going after several bounces and even roll for a while afterward.

As for side spin, friction from the ground works in the opposite direction of the motion of the ball, so the side spin shouldn't be affected as much and certainly should not be totally killed on contact like we see in the game videos.

I think I've brought this up before in previous physics discussions - is it possible to hit a ground ball as hard as a line drive or a home run in this game, or are ground balls a product of "bad" contact? I think this was answered before but I honestly don't remember.

That's another issue which is more relevant in view of lack of high bouncing chopper:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/kfgVvw8E-4o" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

The above is a bad example in a sense it's a rare kind of chopper (the batted ball appeared to have really high, weird spin) so I would blame the game for not reproducing it, but this kind of chopper would be relatively common:

<iframe src='http://m.mlb.com/shared/video/embed/embed.html?content_id=24489177&width=400&height=22 4&property=mlb' width='400' height='224' frameborder='0'>Your browser does not support iframes.</iframe>

but I doubt we see this in the game now... so it might be that the game is not producing ground-ball/chopper equivalent of towering fly balls/pop-ups.

**spitoon** · 01-12-2016, 10:41 PM

Re: What ball physics still lacks

This is one of my few complaints about The Show.

I have no stats to prove this, but "most" balls hit down the lines end up as doubles in MLB, while very few result in doubles in The Show. (It's pretty easy to find videos of both).

I'd be very happy if this was addressed. I was thinking about messing with fielder speed, but I'm pretty happy with the balls in the gap this year and I worry that it would get out of whack with any changes.

**takki** · 01-13-2016, 06:27 AM

Re: What ball physics still lacks

There seems to be a general lack of "hoppers", where the ball is bouncing and it is impossible to risk catching it. They have to block it and catch it before throwing instead. Or balls that completely bounce over players.

Also there is a lack of "dinkers" where the ball gets smacked over the infielders and quickly drops shallow into the outfield. There are way too many pop flies in this game and not enough shallow dropping balls. You almost never see outfield pop singles in this game. All outfield singles come from lasers being driven into the gaps in the outfield. Otherwise, it is always caught. This is also because the players move too fast in this game and easily can get to pop flies.

And we all know the problems with line drives in this series. They almost never happen.

What ball physics still lacks

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