Career Stats and SABR Confirmed

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  • WaitTilNextYear
    Go Cubs Go
    • Mar 2013
    • 16830

    #16
    Re: Career Stats and SABR Confirmed

    Originally posted by 55
    We also survived over 4.5 billion years without electricity, running water, etc. but those things sure are nice to have as a bonus, aren't they?
    Are you repping bacteria, my friend? lol. Humankind ain't been around nearly that long. Point well taken though.

    Originally posted by aguero90
    Hahaha, true. But in a lot of ways, a good amount of those kind of stats are projection based. They love to computerize everything, and try and tell you that a guy like Heyward, just because of his War, is worth the huge contract he got, when in reality, when you look at his "baseball stats," he's not worth nearly as much as he got. I'm sorry, but 13 homers and 60 some odd RBI isn't worth that. Guess it just bugs me! And don't get me started on shifts, I think they give up just as much hits as they take away.
    "Projection-based" means it's yet to happen. The SABR stuff can be either for the past or the future.

    Different people define their "baseball stats" in different ways. If it means bubble gum stats to you, then that's cool. That's all I cared about 25 years ago when I was a young turk.

    But if all you consider is HR and RBI, c'mon into the present with the rest of us, will you?
    Chicago Cubs | Chicago Bulls | Green Bay Packers | Michigan Wolverines

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    • aguero90
      MVP
      • Oct 2013
      • 1252

      #17
      Re: Career Stats and SABR Confirmed

      Don't get me wrong, there is a place for all the new age stats, I just think people have lost sight of the stats that make baseball the game we love, you know? When it comes right down to it at the end of the day, if you're hitting .300, or hitting for power, then you're doing the job. I think the game gets bogged down sometimes, see the ball, hit the ball. Lol, I sound like I'm 70, not 25. I guess it's because I fell in love with the game when I was 8 in 98, and it took a while to get used to saber metrics.
      1458, not counting playoffs, that's the number of games in a row I haven't missed! Go Yanks!

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      • 55
        Banned
        • Mar 2006
        • 20857

        #18
        Re: Career Stats and SABR Confirmed

        Originally posted by WaitTilNextYear
        Are you repping bacteria, my friend? lol. Humankind ain't been around nearly that long. Point well taken though.
        Was talking about the earth in general.

        As far as homosapiens are concerned, we went without the aforementioned things for 3 million years, so yeah. Point still stands.

        Either way, I'm cautiously optimistic that these career stats will track in subsequent seasons in franchise mode. That has been my number one issue with this game for a decade and I fervently hope it has finally been remedied.

        Comment

        • WaitTilNextYear
          Go Cubs Go
          • Mar 2013
          • 16830

          #19
          Re: Career Stats and SABR Confirmed

          Originally posted by aguero90
          Don't get me wrong, there is a place for all the new age stats, I just think people have lost sight of the stats that make baseball the game we love, you know? When it comes right down to it at the end of the day, if you're hitting .300, or hitting for power, then you're doing the job. I think the game gets bogged down sometimes, see the ball, hit the ball. Lol, I sound like I'm 70, not 25. I guess it's because I fell in love with the game when I was 8 in 98, and it took a while to get used to saber metrics.
          A lot of people like and use both. Some stats are more accessible/fun/easy to talk about and others are more complete for evaluating players.

          Originally posted by 55
          Was talking about the earth in general.

          As far as homosapiens are concerned, we went without the aforementioned things for 3 million years, so yeah. Point still stands.

          Either way, I'm cautiously optimistic that these career stats will track in subsequent seasons in franchise mode. That has been my number one issue with this game for a decade and I fervently hope it has finally been remedied.
          Are you talking about homo sapiens sapiens? lol

          It's looking that way. Watching the Game Informer stream, they had all of Joe Mauer's previous years on his player card. I couldn't imagine it not collecting yearly stats into the future with this being the case.
          Chicago Cubs | Chicago Bulls | Green Bay Packers | Michigan Wolverines

          Comment

          • aguero90
            MVP
            • Oct 2013
            • 1252

            #20
            Re: Career Stats and SABR Confirmed

            That is cool, I hope commentary references lifetime numbers between pitcher and batter like 2k did.
            1458, not counting playoffs, that's the number of games in a row I haven't missed! Go Yanks!

            Comment

            • 55
              Banned
              • Mar 2006
              • 20857

              #21
              Re: Career Stats and SABR Confirmed

              Another thing I was wondering about is how will saves from previous years (that didn't track career stats) work with this year's game now that career stats are tracked?

              Comment

              • tabarnes19_SDS
                Game Designer
                • Feb 2003
                • 3084

                #22
                Re: Career Stats and SABR Confirmed

                Originally posted by 55
                Another thing I was wondering about is how will saves from previous years (that didn't track career stats) work with this year's game now that career stats are tracked?
                I wonder as well. I assume they would be 0s for the stats not tracked. Players that are on the game Ramone had mentioned previously have id's which allow them to have modifications made to animations and such, so maybe that can happen with carryover savez. Only issue is then they would not be the stats that were accrued in your world.

                If the carryover save happens before the first year ends I'm betting they can keep the stats because most stats are kept until the end of the season.

                Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk

                Comment

                • MrOldboy
                  MVP
                  • Feb 2011
                  • 2653

                  #23
                  Re: Career Stats and SABR Confirmed

                  Originally posted by aguero90
                  Hahaha, true. But in a lot of ways, a good amount of those kind of stats are projection based. They love to computerize everything, and try and tell you that a guy like Heyward, just because of his War, is worth the huge contract he got, when in reality, when you look at his "baseball stats," he's not worth nearly as much as he got. I'm sorry, but 13 homers and 60 some odd RBI isn't worth that. Guess it just bugs me! And don't get me started on shifts, I think they give up just as much hits as they take away.
                  How do you value his defensive value when looking at his "baseball stats". Half the game is played out on the diamond so there is immense value there. Do you care about a low K%? If you thin that way then your right fielder of choice would be Chris Davis since Boras seems to think he's a utility player. WAR compares players to one another, that is basically all that the average person needs to take out of it. It looks at both defense and offense. That is where the disconnect comes in I think, the disagreement with how defense is valued. The thing that I go tell people is to go look up past players that they feel were defensively valuable. More often than not the sabermetric evaluations agree. When Willie Mays won his string of gold gloves, guess what he was also valued highly be his defensive WAR.

                  Comment

                  • aguero90
                    MVP
                    • Oct 2013
                    • 1252

                    #24
                    Re: Career Stats and SABR Confirmed

                    Well, true. Although before all the saber stats, we didn't need formulas to tell who was a good defender, you just knew with the eye test, and the way players played the field. It's useful yes, but not something we can't do without. I guess it's one of the reasons I don't like projection, the game isn't played on paper, so why try and project a teams win loss record. It makes great debate, but that's all.
                    1458, not counting playoffs, that's the number of games in a row I haven't missed! Go Yanks!

                    Comment

                    • Benz87
                      #OwnTheFuture
                      • Jan 2005
                      • 1320

                      #25
                      Re: Career Stats and SABR Confirmed

                      I could like without WAR, give me something as simple as career stolen bases and it will be an improvement over the severe lack of franchise stat tracking that has plagued this series.
                      Green Bay Packers | Milwaukee Bucks | Milwaukee Brewers

                      Comment

                      • MrOldboy
                        MVP
                        • Feb 2011
                        • 2653

                        #26
                        Re: Career Stats and SABR Confirmed

                        Originally posted by aguero90
                        Well, true. Although before all the saber stats, we didn't need formulas to tell who was a good defender, you just knew with the eye test, and the way players played the field. It's useful yes, but not something we can't do without. I guess it's one of the reasons I don't like projection, the game isn't played on paper, so why try and project a teams win loss record. It makes great debate, but that's all.
                        But we have objectively proven through statistical analysis that some defenders that pass the "eye test" actually do not perform that well. i.e. How many fly balls did he get to? Is he making great diving catches because he is getting to more fly balls or are his jumps just making him late to get to normal fly balls? For instance Matt Kemp won two gold gloves while performing mediocre defensively fairly recently.

                        Comment

                        • aguero90
                          MVP
                          • Oct 2013
                          • 1252

                          #27
                          Re: Career Stats and SABR Confirmed

                          You make a good point. I guess the true thing that gets to me when you hear saber guys talk, is how little they care about "old school stats." I'd rather see a guy put a ball in play, than strike out over 200 times, and then people say that strikeouts don't matter, as long as they hit 40 homers. I watch all 162 Yanks games every year, and nothing gets me mad more than a runner in scoring position with none out, and they can't play small ball and get the run in.
                          1458, not counting playoffs, that's the number of games in a row I haven't missed! Go Yanks!

                          Comment

                          • MrOldboy
                            MVP
                            • Feb 2011
                            • 2653

                            #28
                            Re: Career Stats and SABR Confirmed

                            Originally posted by aguero90
                            You make a good point. I guess the true thing that gets to me when you hear saber guys talk, is how little they care about "old school stats." I'd rather see a guy put a ball in play, than strike out over 200 times, and then people say that strikeouts don't matter, as long as they hit 40 homers. I watch all 162 Yanks games every year, and nothing gets me mad more than a runner in scoring position with none out, and they can't play small ball and get the run in.
                            That argument has sort of gone away, the whole three-true-outcome way of thinking. People who actually care don't think Adam Dunn was that valuable given his defense. He may have hit tons of home runs, but offensively he wasn't as valuable as his 40+ HRs appear given his rate stats like the ones you mentioned. Heyward's defense isn't where all his value comes from either like some journalists or broadcasters like to haev you believe. Even with his sort of mediocre looking batting line it is still way above average given his other rate stats like as you point out K% and BB%. I think you are actually thinking more in line with how the sabermetric guys think.

                            There is still a place for the type of scouting you are talking about that can't be captured in one stat like WAR. There are some calculations for things like clutch which take into account getting players in from scoring positions and 3rd w/less 2 outs. But old school scouting won't go away. You see coaches and scouts rave about things like what you list. Even non-stat based things. Look at Puig. He is actually a pretty valuable player, but he is getting a reputation where teams won't pay up what the Dodgers are asking. He is only valuable on paper though. I get what you saying, but I think you gotta look at the paper and the real life player to properly evaluate modern baseball.
                            Last edited by MrOldboy; 02-21-2016, 09:16 PM.

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