Utility Players

[ruskoz]

I was wonder if utility players will take a hit for other positions? Example Josh Harrison is on 2nd this year verse last year at 3rd and others. How is this going to be done this year?

[MrOldboy]

Re: Utility Players

I don't think any changes were made to how secondary positions work in 16. What has been needed for a while though is the ability to assign more secondary positions.

In the case of how secondary positions are added by the devs, my assumption is if they have innings played at that position they get that as a secondary. For example I expect Chris Coghlan to have RF, 2B, 3B and 1B as secondary options. They may have a threshold for how many innings are needed internally.

[eric7064]

Re: Utility Players

I'd love an option to "Train" someone in a new position. Similar to how Javy Baez is being used by the Cubs. May it takes a full season and 20 games played at the position. Bit it'd be cool.

[MrOldboy]

Re: Utility Players

I'd love an option to "Train" someone in a new position. Similar to how Javy Baez is being used by the Cubs. May it takes a full season and 20 games played at the position. Bit it'd be cool.

This is something I've been asking for in regard to minor league player progression. Same in RTTS. I'd like for the organization I've playing for request that I play a new position and once I play enough innings there I get a secondary making me more valuable to the MLB team. If I'm a SS and am used at 2B for most of my innings played I'd like for my main position to also be changed. You have a lot of control over things like how you train/improve and your position in RTTS. I'd be interested to see less control in some aspects and if my organization wants me to become a utility player, fulfill their desire if that helps me make the MLB team faster.

For the MLB team this could work as well I think. Take a case like Mauer. Say you have a catcher like Buster Posey on your team and you want to move him to 1B, well maybe you need to play him there during spring training to get enough innings to get a secondary there, and then after a lot of innings his position automatically changes to 1B without having to go edit the player.

[Bobhead]

Re: Utility Players

This is really my problem with the whole position system that The Show currently has.

It doesn't account for similar positions (like putting a LF in RF).

It does not account for a player playing at his non-optimal position (like Daniel Murphy, whose best position is third base in real life, but he gets a penalty for playing there in The Show because it is his "secondary" position.

It does not account for a player who is equally good at multiple primary positions.

And it doesn't account for the real life potential of learning new positions, or the unique compatibility between a player and a position: Not everyone can learn shortstop, for example.

Ideally, these positional assignments, and the arbitrary penalties that come with them, would not be weighed so heavily in the first place. Ratings should dictate what positions work for a certain player. You need a minimum reaction time to play third base well. A minimum range at shortstop. A minimum tracking ability at CF, minimum durability at C, etc...

Maybe an experience rating at each position also, and you're set. Maybe I'm leaving out some variable but there's surely a way to better capture the real life dynamic... These "permanent" positions need to be done away with.

[MrOldboy]

Re: Utility Players

This is really my problem with the whole position system that The Show currently has.

It doesn't account for similar positions (like putting a LF in RF).

It does not account for a player playing at his non-optimal position (like Daniel Murphy, whose best position is third base in real life, but he gets a penalty for playing there in The Show because it is his "secondary" position.

It does not account for a player who is equally good at multiple primary positions.

And it doesn't account for the real life potential of learning new positions, or the unique compatibility between a player and a position: Not everyone can learn shortstop, for example.

Ideally, these positional assignments, and the arbitrary penalties that come with them, would not be weighed so heavily in the first place. Ratings should dictate what positions work for a certain player. You need a minimum reaction time to play third base well. A minimum range at shortstop. A minimum tracking ability at CF, minimum durability at C, etc...

Maybe an experience rating at each position also, and you're set. Maybe I'm leaving out some variable but there's surely a way to better capture the real life dynamic... These "permanent" positions need to be done away with.

I feel like the rating system and primary/secondary system is pretty much stuck at this point. I don't think the devs see the need to overhaul this part of the game, but it could be refined.

The main issue is that we cannot create players who accurately play their respective positions as it is right now. You can't make a third baseman only have RF and LF as secondaries. You can't have an SS just have 2B and 3B, no 1B. And you can't create a true utility player, everything except catcher. If they can add this in and maybe add in positional weight (i.e. SS playing 2B only takes tiny hit while 3B playing CF takes larger hit) I think it would be improved a lot.

[TGov]

Re: Utility Players

I'd love an option to "Train" someone in a new position. Similar to how Javy Baez is being used by the Cubs. May it takes a full season and 20 games played at the position. Bit it'd be cool.

I would also love this feature, could use it for pitchers to stretch out to be starters or vise versa

[dran1984]

Re: Utility Players

I feel like the rating system and primary/secondary system is pretty much stuck at this point. I don't think the devs see the need to overhaul this part of the game, but it could be refined.

The main issue is that we cannot create players who accurately play their respective positions as it is right now. You can't make a third baseman only have RF and LF as secondaries. You can't have an SS just have 2B and 3B, no 1B. And you can't create a true utility player, everything except catcher. If they can add this in and maybe add in positional weight (i.e. SS playing 2B only takes tiny hit while 3B playing CF takes larger hit) I think it would be improved a lot.

This is my problem with the thew out-of-position logic this year. Players are going to take hits when they are playing positions that they play regularly. For example, Ben Zobrist. For the life of me I can't figure out why they used him and his Cubs to show of the new logic. A majority of his value is that he can play 1B, 2B, 3B, SS, LF, and RF with the same ability. In no way should he take major hits at any of these positions. And for third basemen, they are positioned at the SS position a lot of times due to the defensive shifts. They should be able to field the routine balls and turn routine double plays without taking big hits in ratings and animations. Then you have some other players that are athletic enough they can play different positions better then other players. Steve Pearce last year for the Orioles had never played 2B until the Orioles put him there due to injuries. He turned out to be average at the position.


I get the whole reason behind the new logic, but it is far from a realistic solution.

[tessl]

Re: Utility Players

I feel like the rating system and primary/secondary system is pretty much stuck at this point. I don't think the devs see the need to overhaul this part of the game, but it could be refined.

The main issue is that we cannot create players who accurately play their respective positions as it is right now. You can't make a third baseman only have RF and LF as secondaries. You can't have an SS just have 2B and 3B, no 1B. And you can't create a true utility player, everything except catcher. If they can add this in and maybe add in positional weight (i.e. SS playing 2B only takes tiny hit while 3B playing CF takes larger hit) I think it would be improved a lot.

One one of the early streams they showed some animations designed to punish a player at a position which he doesn't have as primary or secondary. They have done some work on it but not a complete overhaul and I don't think a complete overhaul is needed.

[MrOldboy]

Re: Utility Players

This is my problem with the thew out-of-position logic this year. Players are going to take hits when they are playing positions that they play regularly. For example, Ben Zobrist. For the life of me I can't figure out why they used him and his Cubs to show of the new logic. A majority of his value is that he can play 1B, 2B, 3B, SS, LF, and RF with the same ability. In no way should he take major hits at any of these positions. And for third basemen, they are positioned at the SS position a lot of times due to the defensive shifts. They should be able to field the routine balls and turn routine double plays without taking big hits in ratings and animations. Then you have some other players that are athletic enough they can play different positions better then other players. Steve Pearce last year for the Orioles had never played 2B until the Orioles put him there due to injuries. He turned out to be average at the position.


I get the whole reason behind the new logic, but it is far from a realistic solution.

One one of the early streams they showed some animations designed to punish a player at a position which he doesn't have as primary or secondary. They have done some work on it but not a complete overhaul and I don't think a complete overhaul is needed.

Exactly why the main issue is that we are not given the chance to assign a players true positions. Every possible secondary should be an option IMO, but I would take just a few more secondary position options a this point. If they allow this then I think the secondary position logic they use is not that big of a deal. It could be refined more, but it would be in a pretty good place.

[ninertravel]

Re: Utility Players

the whole thing is only in because of stupid dumb online players who like to put Ortiz at 2B and won't take a hit for it, once again a feature put in that us offline people have to suffer throughb because of online cheesers


but yeah we need to have more options for secondary people like Prado Zoberist Holt thease guys play everywhere and why is it only SCE can edit their postions to how it should be and we can't for other players when our franchise has already started?

[JTommy67]

Re: Utility Players

Exactly why the main issue is that we are not given the chance to assign a players true positions. Every possible secondary should be an option IMO, but I would take just a few more secondary position options a this point. If they allow this then I think the secondary position logic they use is not that big of a deal. It could be refined more, but it would be in a pretty good place.

When you navigate to 'secondary position' when editing a player, a popup screen should come up where you can check every position the guy can play. Wouldn't solve the problem of some players taking an unnecessary hit, but at least we could assign proper positions.

[MrOldboy]

Re: Utility Players

When you navigate to 'secondary position' when editing a player, a popup screen should come up where you can check every position the guy can play. Wouldn't solve the problem of some players taking an unnecessary hit, but at least we could assign proper positions.

That was what I saw asked for in the wish list threads and I agree it would probably be the easiest method. Regarding some players not getting reduction, I don't think the devs will ever give us this option as it would mean at minimum another option in the edit player menu. The devs need the ratings to apply to all players and in their minds most players have a main position and some can also play another, but not at the level of their main position. I agree with this on a broad level, but of course that is not true for every player. I think as it is now the system in the game is fine, except that we cannot assign any secondary we want.

[ScouserHUN]

Re: Utility Players

Ramone mentioned it, that playing in a secondary position result in a 5% defensive attribute drop (for example 87 -> 83), but it is not going to affect tha animations (out fo position logic)

If you play a player in a position that is not listed as primary or secondary, he is going to get a huge drop in attributes + he is going to have those clumsy animations.

[NEOPARADIGM]

Re: Utility Players

When you navigate to 'secondary position' when editing a player, a popup screen should come up where you can check every position the guy can play. Wouldn't solve the problem of some players taking an unnecessary hit, but at least we could assign proper positions.

Yeah this is good. Or even just a simple (yes/no) designation for "UTIL" that would mean a player only takes a 15 or 20% hit when you play him at an unassigned position instead of 40% or whatever it is.