Elephant in the Room: AI Bullpen Usage

[countryboy]

Re: Elephant in the Room: AI Bullpen Usage

this is easily my biggest gripe with gameplay. I am holding out hope that one of these years they find a way to get the computer to utilize his bullpen better than what he is now. Especially using lefty vs lefty matchups and taking out LH specialist when a right hander comes up.

I was hoping it was better this year, but it seems to be the same as year's past.

[KBLover]

Re: Elephant in the Room: AI Bullpen Usage

this is easily my biggest gripe with gameplay. I am holding out hope that one of these years they find a way to get the computer to utilize his bullpen better than what he is now. Especially using lefty vs lefty matchups and taking out LH specialist when a right hander comes up.

I don't know - I'd rather the AI leave in a guy like Bastardo (90 H/9, 95 K/9, even at 36) instead of removing him because a RHB is up after he gets out Harper and Davis.

Relief talent is such a premium where I'm at...I'd rather the AI stick with the good arms when they can use them instead of bringing marginal guys for match-up reasons. They see enough action when the few good arms need a day or two off.

Lowering a 60/90 hitter to 40/90 doesn't help when the pitcher is also giving up 20-30 points in multiple categories (maybe 40 in the case of Bastardo and the next guy).

Maybe MLB16 generates better relievers (please let that be so), so maybe when I'm in 2025, this won't be an issue and I'll be like the rest of folks in the thread.

[Grinder12000]

Re: Elephant in the Room: AI Bullpen Usage

Yea - I JUST finished an MoM game where the opposing pitcher was pitching a 2 hit 0 walk shut out with 75 pitches and they removed him after 1 hit in the 6th. SADLY the tired bullpen came in and shut the door - lost 1-0 in the rain.

[countryboy]

Re: Elephant in the Room: AI Bullpen Usage

I don't know - I'd rather the AI leave in a guy like Bastardo (90 H/9, 95 K/9, even at 36) instead of removing him because a RHB is up after he gets out Harper and Davis.

Relief talent is such a premium where I'm at...I'd rather the AI stick with the good arms when they can use them instead of bringing marginal guys for match-up reasons. They see enough action when the few good arms need a day or two off.

Maybe MLB16 generates better relievers (please let that be so), so maybe when I'm in 2025, this won't be an issue and I'll be like the rest of folks in the thread.

I don't mind a guy like Bastardo staying in or Siegrist because they are potent against both lefties and righties. However, if you have a guy like Randy Choate who is primarily a specialist who is used to get out lefties, I'd rather not see them face right handed hitters, especially righties that tear the cover off the ball against left handed pitching.

I agree its a fine line that can't be easy to code for because you don't want the cpu continuously taking out relievers for matchup reasons and run themselves out of arms, but it would be nice if they could somehow find a better balance than what they currently have.

And let me say this real quick, I would rather them have what they have now than the issue I just presented.

[KBLover]

Re: Elephant in the Room: AI Bullpen Usage

I don't mind a guy like Bastardo staying in or Siegrist because they are potent against both lefties and righties. However, if you have a guy like Randy Choate who is primarily a specialist who is used to get out lefties, I'd rather not see them face right handed hitters, especially righties that tear the cover off the ball against left handed pitching.

But that's the thing...there's no emulating Choate because there's no L/R splits for pitchers.

It's all about the hitter. So if Choate has decent ratings and hitter doesn't have a big advantage vs LHP - the realistic scenario doesn't play out. Pitcher doesn't drop off vs RHP (nor does he shine as a specialist because he doesn't have better vs LHB ratings). In your scenario, I actually see the CPU make changes. I can bet on seeing a lefty reliever when Harper (90 Con, 90 Pwr vs R) and Davis (80 Con, 90-something Pwr vs R) are even close to due up. Especially Harper since he's literally 30 points lower vs LHP.

I think what's be asked for can only be accomplished in the current engine by either going "same hand = stay, different hand = pull" or by giving most hitters significant differences lower against platoon disadvantage, which isn't always the case.

Pitchers need splits first. Then bullpen match-up logic can be improved and more realistic. Then Choate can be rated as and should be used as a vs. LHB specialist. Choate could be 90 H/9 vs LHB and 50 H/9 vs RHB. THEN we have something the AI can work with and devs can program accurately with less side effects.

I guess I'm saying the cart is before the horse and that the AI doesn't make these kinds of moves is because these kinds of guys don't actually exist in MLBTS.

We need to them exist in our MLBTS universes. Then we can skewer the AI for misusing them, imo.

Also, we need actual manager tendencies. Maybe the some teams will use bullpens in a way that would make Tony LaRussa sheds tears of joy and some are like "best arm available every time".

[countryboy]

Re: Elephant in the Room: AI Bullpen Usage

But that's the thing...there's no emulating Choate because there's no L/R splits for pitchers.

I think what's be asked for can only be accomplished in the current engine by either going "same hand = stay, different hand = pull" or by giving most hitters significant differences lower against platoon disadvantage, which isn't always the case.

Pitchers need splits first. Then bullpen match-up logic can be improved and more realistic. Then Choate can be rated as and should be used as a vs. LHB specialist. Choate could be 90 H/9 vs LHB and 50 H/9 vs RHB. THEN we have something the AI can work with and devs can program accurately with less side effects.

This is what I'm hoping they add someday.

Also, we need actual manager tendencies. Maybe the some teams will use bullpens in a way that would make Tony LaRussa sheds tears of joy and some are like "best arm available every time".

Been waiting on this as well for quite a while.

[CanOfCornCobb]

Re: Elephant in the Room: AI Bullpen Usage

I had to quit playing my 7inn game fantasy season last year after 20games because I came back to win in the 7th or in extras about 5 times because the AI could not detect that the 7th was the final inning and so they would either leave their ailing starter in or just switch to a mid reliever. I love this years edition, but I just wish they wouldve spent time addressing issues like these instead of spending countless hours creating a mode like conquest. This must be one of the most difficult things to program because even in real life pitching changes are extremely variable in the 6,7,8th innings based on a variety of things in the current situation. At the the very least Id like them to be able to detect RP pitch counts and even the handedness of the next 3 batters the following inning.

[sportomatic75]

Re: Elephant in the Room: AI Bullpen Usage

I feel like SCEA has their priorities out of line sometimes. This bullpen and management logic should come way before introducing new modes. I just remembered from the past, the AI would pinch hit in a very odd situation and most of the time it was not a good pinch hitter that was used. There should be implementation of logic of using stats to decide who will pinch hit or come int the game to pitch at a certain point.

[DarthRambo]

Re: Elephant in the Room: AI Bullpen Usage

I have to switch controller select screen to do the stupid CPU AI BP myself

As I said the way to get around it is when you feel that the AI shouldn't be replacing a starter or you wanna control their BP to be realistic quickly pause the game (thankfully this year you can do that ANYTIME this time!! even after a strikeout!) go to select team and change to the other team, then quickly switch back after each out to stop the AI from hooking a starter, and simply make the changes if you want to, if the dumb AI want to bring in a Closer who has no energy I quickly hook him before he can even pitch by switching teams, in real life he would not be pitching no matter what after 3 days, at least thats how Joe manages the yankees!

This is what I try to do. Last game they pulled Stroman after 6.2ip after a walk with 2 outs in the 7th. Jays only up 2-1 and Stroman just reaching 80+ pitches. By far the worst part of the game. I can easily manage their bullpen but controlling when they pull a starter is tough to remember to hit pause in close games.

The cpu goes by the SCORE for when to pull the SP. A tied game or they are only up by 1 run the leash is short once the 7th inning hits. A single guy reaches bases in any way the SP is pulled. This has to be fixed someday!!

[KBLover]

Re: Elephant in the Room: AI Bullpen Usage

The cpu goes by the SCORE for when to pull the SP. A tied game or they are only up by 1 run the leash is short once the 7th inning hits. A single guy reaches bases in any way the SP is pulled. This has to be fixed someday!!

And make the manager hook slider more powerful. I have it turned all the way down and it doesn't matter. They aren't kidding when they say "situation is still the dominant factor" in the description.

[Beatles]

Re: Elephant in the Room: AI Bullpen Usage

the A1 managing BP is always pathetic they will bring a closer in the 9th NO MATTER WHAT if it's a close situation meaning if their CP is gased because he has pitched the last 3 days I just know I am gonna make a comeback the AI NEVER uses fatigue logic it keeps using score logic

I have to switch controller select screen to do the stupid CPU AI BP myself

This is what I resorted to in last years game. I played it on PS3 so I just assumed it was an issue with that system. Sadly though, I was wrong and it's still happening in 16 on PS4.

[nomo17k]

Re: Elephant in the Room: AI Bullpen Usage

This simply doesn't happen in MLB these days, but it is still common in The Show:



I think CPU manager hasn't changed at all for the last several years.

[DarthRambo]

Re: Elephant in the Room: AI Bullpen Usage

This simply doesn't happen in MLB these days, but it is still common in The Show:



I think CPU manager hasn't changed at all for the last several years.

If that doesn't show the AI only goes by the score then idk what does lol. Wow!

[Greencollarbaseball]

Re: Elephant in the Room: AI Bullpen Usage

This simply doesn't happen in MLB these days, but it is still common in The Show:







I think CPU manager hasn't changed at all for the last several years.

Gotta get that shut out. Lol

[oldtimey]

Re: Elephant in the Room: AI Bullpen Usage

I have developed somewhat of a workaround for these issues.
Please read the thread " Setting pitch count limits with pitcher stamina ratings."
Also in the thread, I describe how I get more realistic usage in the bullpen.