Discussion: Hits down the line

[BML412]

Re: Discussion: Hits down the line

I think it has to do with the field being small too...I notice I rarely ever see hits that drop right over the outfielders heads too. Either the infielder gets to the outfield so far so suck or the outfielder closes the gap. I barely see any bloop hits just drop in.

[nemesis04]

Re: Discussion: Hits down the line

I think it has to do with the field being small too...I notice I rarely ever see hits that drop right over the outfielders heads too. Either the infielder gets to the outfield so far so suck or the outfielder closes the gap. I barely see any bloop hits just drop in.

Funny that you say this because I think I have seen the most bloop hits occur this year than any other year.

[JTommy67]

Re: Discussion: Hits down the line

I think it has to do with the field being small too....

After seeing a few posts such as these I went into replay at Wrigley, positioned the camera so it was looking straight down at the third base line from home plate to the left field wall. Using a ruler and some simple proportional math, I concluded that the distance being displayed was indeed correct. If home to third is 90 feet, then the distance to the wall down the line is 355 (or 353, whichever it is).


I did not, however, check any other ballparks.

[nemesis04]

Re: Discussion: Hits down the line

The ballparks are all to scale.

[nomo17k]

Re: Discussion: Hits down the line

The outfield size is definitely not the issue though. If you look into the stadium from high above using a quasi-fly cam using replay, you can actually see the dimension of the stadium. The stadiums are to scale with real-life thing.

To developers' credit, the game has improved outfielder plays tremendously the past couple iterations (they have been slowed down generally, they now take non-straight path to the ball landing spot, ball physics producing more "poor hits" which generates more bloopers which used to be really absent). I think, overall, fielding plays great this year.

The major shortcoming of fielding mechanism by now, in my opinion, is the lack of realistic momentum system (some aspects of momentum are implemented, but I think it's not quite enough ).

If you look at how real-life outfielders, you notice that they don't run to the ball at their full speed most of the time. I think the only time they can run close to full speed is when the ball landing spot is very far away from their initial positioning.

But most other times, they tend to accelerate/decelerate more slowly, in order to avoid fighting their own momentum when the ball moves unexpectedly while handling difficult bounces due to caroms and ball spin/wind, etc.

Because The Show does not really have a totally realistic momentum system, you (as well as CPU) don't have to tame momentum, so outfielders can still make plays quite a bit quicker than what real-life outfielders can, and in turn that gives us an impression that they are still quick to handle balls hit to the outfield.

That's what I've been feeling, anyways...

[Droptopeclipse]

Re: Discussion: Hits down the line

I've had instances in the last few games in rtts MLB level where I've been hit for two doubles and a triple down the line. On the other side of it though there have been quite a few of them down the line at third that just go straight as an arrow. I've even had back to back dribblers past Longoria that were almost identical.

[bcruise]

Re: Discussion: Hits down the line

I feel like if the momentum was made too realistic we'd run into the same problem as the basketball game with the players feeling too "weighty" and experiencing loss of control. I'm not saying that would be a bad thing, but there's a very vocal section of OS that wants more control over their player movement, not less. Even if it means the game looking less "sim". We get to some degree already in this game with the canned animation complaints.

It's one thing if the CPU used momentum correctly, but I guarantee we'd be hearing the same complaints if the user was bound by it too.

It's a tough dilemma for the devs, for sure. At the end of the day it's a video game, and it can't be everything for everyone.

Personally I do see doubles down the line, they just tend to occur in the same style as the one in the OP (which aren't exactly realistic situations) Just had one in a CPUvsCPU game, in fact:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/JH5OVGVr1iY?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[bcruise]

Re: Discussion: Hits down the line

Now.....THIS one looked pretty good IMO. The "bracing" animation fits because the RF was on a dead sprint towards the wall. Batter has good speed but not top-level, and this is still a triple regardless.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Swm5GayUzCk?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

It's hit and miss. A lot of times you'll get ones that look wrong or get cut off by the fielder, other times you'll get ones like this.

[Don Jon]

Re: Discussion: Hits down the line

bcruise yours seem to be a line drive straight into the corner, those I see get to the corner more often. I can rarely hit a grounder like chris davis' in the op, that ends up in a double. Those seem to be cut off way before I can turn towards 2nd

[nomo17k]

Re: Discussion: Hits down the line

I feel like if the momentum was made too realistic we'd run into the same problem as the basketball game with the players feeling too "weighty" and experiencing loss of control. I'm not saying that would be a bad thing, but there's a very vocal section of OS that wants more control over their player movement, not less. Even if it means the game looking less "sim". We get to some degree already in this game with the canned animation complaints.

It's one thing if the CPU used momentum correctly, but I guarantee we'd be hearing the same complaints if the user was bound by it too.

It's a tough dilemma for the devs, for sure. At the end of the day it's a video game, and it can't be everything for everyone.

...

I think I should clarify what I mean by the better momentum system... I would actually want to clearly distinguish it from "canned animation" system, which is more like the current system used by The Show, and ideally I don't think that's the way things like this should be implemented.

What I mean is that you are in total control of the motion of your body, but the body movement is susceptible to inevitable effect of momentum, so you have to control your body movement in such a way that you have to take into account that your body has some weight.

I am awfully embarrassingly dating myself, but the following two retro shooting games illustrate my point well:

Movement without any concept of momentum (Xevious):

Spoiler

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/RGwqwIGs0B8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Movement with a proper concept of momentum (Exerion):

Spoiler

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/vpgk4JJlUK4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Now, with Exerion, the gamer is still in total control of the fighter jet, but he simply must control it anticipating the effect of momentum. None of the jet's movement is canned, and the game isn't losing control at any moment.

Of course these are flying objects so the effect of momentum is much more exaggerated, but even though baseball players feel this to a lesser extent, they still move taking into account the effect of momentum.

Now.....THIS one looked pretty good IMO. The "bracing" animation fits because the RF was on a dead sprint towards the wall. Batter has good speed but not top-level, and this is still a triple regardless.

Spoiler

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Swm5GayUzCk?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

It's hit and miss. A lot of times you'll get ones that look wrong or get cut off by the fielder, other times you'll get ones like this.

So with the example in this video, what I would think a real-life RF would have done is to (1) start sprinting as fast as possible right off the contact, (2) as he approaches the landing position he decelerates significantly, making sure he doesn't crash into the wall or overshoot the ball landing spot (which the CPU controlled fielder does), (3) slow down enough while evaluating which way the ball actually bounces off the wall (4) and then literally go pick up and throw it back to the infield.

That is a significant slower play than what CPU fielder did here... In the end, it was likely a triple either way, but the difference is that CPU went into that canned "sucked-in" animation which everyone hates to go into and that took time allowing the runner to take an extra base, but in real-life the whole sequence slows down because he has to control his own momentum.

[Don Jon]

Re: Discussion: Hits down the line

I agree with your points nomo, taking the video you responded to above, the RF did a 40 yard dash to the fence and picked up the ball along the wall, all without decelerating. If one tried that in real life their head would hit against the wall and it wouldn't end well.

[spitoon]

Re: Discussion: Hits down the line

Now.....THIS one looked pretty good IMO. The "bracing" animation fits because the RF was on a dead sprint towards the wall. Batter has good speed but not top-level, and this is still a triple regardless.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Swm5GayUzCk?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

It's hit and miss. A lot of times you'll get ones that look wrong or get cut off by the fielder, other times you'll get ones like this.

This is probably my biggest complaint. They have made progress toward it, but it's still not right.

One of the problems that I see is that the friction on the field is too high. Couple that with outfielders getting great jumps and maybe being a bit too fast, I rarely see balls make it all the way into the corner (like the one in the video).

Not a "down the line" hit, but last night, I hit a line drive in the gap at 105MPH. Split the outfielders perfectly but it didn't make it to the wall. It stopped short of the warning track. I just think the friction is a bit high...

[CanOfCornCobb]

Re: Discussion: Hits down the line

This is embarrassing on SCEA's part..... i mean this is pretty much physically impossible to hit this ball this hard with the type of spin it has on it. There's no way I could ever even hit a ball this way with any type of hitting interface and get a base hit on it. How does this not roll foul? This cost me the game. Even if it continued the path it usually does for most groundballs it would've rolled foul. Im just in shock that I could hit a ball down the line with opposite spin on it.....idk even know what to say...its just unreal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdyWlqZj8AM

[CanOfCornCobb]

Re: Discussion: Hits down the line

Things like this get buried, ignored, and never make it into the edition of the game because no one else really cares. This is a major issue. How can anyone watch my video and say that it is not an issue with the game? This is why stuff like this never gets fixed. This type of hit has been in the game since I started playing back in 08 or 09. Im not going to let this thread get buried again. SCEA has to change this for next years' game.

[KBLover]

Re: Discussion: Hits down the line

This is embarrassing on SCEA's part..... i mean this is pretty much physically impossible to hit this ball this hard with the type of spin it has on it. There's no way I could ever even hit a ball this way with any type of hitting interface and get a base hit on it. How does this not roll foul? This cost me the game. Even if it continued the path it usually does for most groundballs it would've rolled foul. Im just in shock that I could hit a ball down the line with opposite spin on it.....idk even know what to say...its just unreal.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdyWlqZj8AM

That guy should play pool. That's some serious english on that ball.

Wow - I think the third baseman was in shock that it didn't go foul.