Poor bat-ball physics have a major affect on hitting & pitching

[shark547]

Re: Poor bat-ball physics have a major affect on hitting & pitching

Hmm..I have given up a fair amount of homers on pitches inside. Not sure why we are experiencing different things. My guy throws 99-100.

[LionsFan01]

Re: Poor bat-ball physics have a major affect on hitting & pitching

I've been noticing some of what the OP is talking about over the past week or so. Seems like on pitches inside (meaning over the inner third of the plate, not inside off the plate) if my timing is good, one of two things happens. Either I smash it foul despite the good timing, or I hit a sky high fly ball for an easy out. Occasionally I'll pull a hard liner down the line, and I've managed one homerun with a left handed hitter that barely cleared the wall because it was hit so high, but for the most part it's been foul balls and outs. The fly ball thing is more concerning to me because lately it seems like even when I have good timing and make hard contact (90+ mph exit velocity) I more often than not just hit high fly balls into the outfield. I can get a meatball squarely in the middle of the plate and just hit high fly balls all game long it feels like. Not that that shouldn't happen from time to time because baseball is full of randomness, but it feels like it happens more than it should. Honestly not sure what to make of it.

[KBLover]

Re: Poor bat-ball physics have a major affect on hitting & pitching

Just take a game pitching and throw nothing but high inside fastballs, the CPU can't do anything with them, that proves it right there.

Chapman gave up a HR 405 ft over the monster on a 101 MPH high-inside fastball.

Got smoked on a curve inside in the same game.

I want your CPU hitters!

[SpikeSpiegel]

Re: Poor bat-ball physics have a major affect on hitting & pitching

Chapman gave up a HR 405 ft over the monster on a 101 MPH high-inside fastball.

Got smoked on a curve inside in the same game.

I want your CPU hitters!

I've yet to see either the CPU or me properly hit a inside pitch above the belt that's on the inner half of the inner 3rd of the plate. I've seen the CPU be able to hit occasionally a pitch that's on the inner 3rd but on the half that's towards the center of the plate. Even then on inside pitches towards the center, it's like a 90% chance of it being hit foul if it's pulled. And if they're late, then it's almost always an out. Pitching is really boring as all I do is throw inside fastballs all game. You can see from that pitching chart, and that's not a lucky game either. You pretty much just get that first 1-2-3 inning using the exploit so-to-speak, then you're riding the confidence train basically the rest of the game. The timing window is bigger the lower in the strikezone so low inside pitches can be hit better. With how weird off-speed pitches feel to hit, I wouldn't be surprised if you could turn on them on the inside.

[KBLover]

Re: Poor bat-ball physics have a major affect on hitting & pitching

I've yet to see either the CPU or me properly hit a inside pitch above the belt that's on the inner half of the inner 3rd of the plate. I've seen the CPU be able to hit occasionally a pitch that's on the inner 3rd but on the half that's towards the center of the plate. Even then on inside pitches towards the center, it's like a 90% chance of it being hit foul if it's pulled. And if they're late, then it's almost always an out.

I don't know what the difference is other than maybe interface. I mean, I leave stuff over the middle on Classic and I HOPE it's just a pop up or line out at someone. I'm just on All-Star, even. I wouldn't even try throwing inside on Legend Classic. Probably would end up over the middle of the plate anyway.

Colon's season got ended on a liner back through the box on a pitch he left in the middle. (Real Colon hits his first HR, mine cracks his skull and is out for the season). I don't know - maybe you're good with your interface and that penalizes the CPU so it gets weak results a lot of times. That's the only thing I can think of since it's hard to "get good" with Classic.

[SpikeSpiegel]

Re: Poor bat-ball physics have a major affect on hitting & pitching

I don't know what the difference is other than maybe interface. I mean, I leave stuff over the middle on Classic and I HOPE it's just a pop up or line out at someone. I'm just on All-Star, even. I wouldn't even try throwing inside on Legend Classic. Probably would end up over the middle of the plate anyway.

I was using Analog in the game the charts are from. I've used the meter in other games and gotten the same results. I haven't used Classic this year because I don't like interfaces that have very little user input involved as then what's the point of me playing the game. The problem isn't that I don't leave pitches over the middle (I do as you can see from the charts), it's that the CPU or I can't hit inside pitches. I should be scared to go inside because I'm scared that I'll throw it over the inner 3rd and it'll get pulled into the stands for a HR, not because I'm worried about leaving it over the middle. I can throw outside and leave it over the middle too; I don't see how there's a greater chance of leaving it over the middle by going inside vs outside. There's a reason pitchers make a living off the outer 3rd and not the inner 3rd. Just play a game trying to throw inside with hard stuff all game and see what happens. You'd at least think the AI would be able to consistently time the fastball if that's all you throw but that's not the case.

[nomo17k]

Re: Poor bat-ball physics have a major affect on hitting & pitching

Got curious about the OP's claim since there is always some concern as to how much AI should punish HUM if HUM decides to do one thing over and over...

... and when I only pitched high and tight, I did get punished quite a bit.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/hOQRKU5ZulI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

You could argue AI should hit even better given that I was basically pitching the same way the entire game... but I think AI not being to adaptive to user strategy may be coded in that way for a purpose of not making too easily fooled by HUM... because if AI adapts to much to one strategy, HUM can figure that pattern out to basically "trap" him into it.


Even if the OP's claim is true (which I think is a little exaggerated), I don't think it is a physics issue... (because I really doubt the game actually does any rigorous physics simulation on the bat contact).. if AI is not hitting well against a particular strategy, I think that would be an AI issue, not physics.

[SpikeSpiegel]

Re: Poor bat-ball physics have a major affect on hitting &amp; pitching

Got curious about the OP's claim since there is always some concern as to how much AI should punish HUM if HUM decides to do one thing over and over...

... and when I only pitched high and tight, I did get punished quite a bit.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/hOQRKU5ZulI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

You could argue AI should hit even better given that I was basically pitching the same way the entire game... but I think AI not being to adaptive to user strategy may be coded in that way for a purpose of not making too easily fooled by HUM... because if AI adapts to much to one strategy, HUM can figure that pattern out to basically "trap" him into it.


Even if the OP's claim is true (which I think is a little exaggerated), I don't think it is a physics issue... (because I really doubt the game actually does any rigorous physics simulation on the bat contact).. if AI is not hitting well against a particular strategy, I think that would be an AI issue, not physics.

It's a physics issue because good timing on inside pitches results in pulled foul balls instead of HRs or doubles down the line. Other games in the series have had the same physics issues including at least MLB 06 (before it became "The Show") and 08 The Show; I haven't played 13-15. I'm willing to bet those 2 hits the AI got on the inner 3rd there were to the opposite field or up the middle. Go into batting practice and try to properly pull inside fastballs, you can't do it. And, you got through the first 5 innings throwing nothing but fastballs, you probably gave up almost all the hits in the one inning as well since they scored 6 runs. I'm also guessing you use Classic interface based on your strike % as that interface results in more meatballs as well. The CPU always has that one inning where they just hit anything and you have to be real careful there of location and pitcher & pitch confidence (especially with relievers as their confidence fluctuates so fast, you have to always have a guy ready to come in).

[nomo17k]

Re: Poor bat-ball physics have a major affect on hitting &amp; pitching

It's a physics issue because good timing on inside pitches results in pulled foul balls instead of HRs or doubles down the line. Other games in the series have had the same physics issues including at least MLB 06 (before it became "The Show") and 08 The Show; I haven't played 13-15. I'm willing to bet those 2 hits the AI got on the inner 3rd there were to the opposite field or up the middle. Go into batting practice and try to properly pull inside fastballs, you can't do it. And, you got through the first 5 innings throwing nothing but fastballs, you probably gave up almost all the hits in the one inning as well since they scored 6 runs. I'm also guessing you use Classic interface based on your strike % as that interface results in more meatballs as well. The CPU always has that one inning where they just hit anything and you have to be real careful there of location and pitcher & pitch confidence (especially with relievers as their confidence fluctuates so fast, you have to always have a guy ready to come in).

That game didn't go like you are describing at all.

Both Volquez and Harvey were allowing hits from the onset, about one per half inning, not so hardly hit but mostly on the pull side. In fact I don't remember any of them went "inside-out" which used to happen (perhaps prior to MLB 13?)... instead, we now tend to pop up inside pitches a lot, when you are late...

I used Pulse on Legend, since I thought Pulse might be the most accurate interface this year (and I'm not very good at using Analog or Meter anyways). But I actually used sliders that give slight boost to CPU, because CPU's offense is quite a bit "nerfed" with sliders at default this year... Perhaps I should've used sliders at default just for this testing.


Perhaps I'm just confusing things by claiming that this is not a physics issue because people use the term physics very liberally here in this forum, but what I personally mean by "physics" is literally solving physical equations. But I realize that's not a very meaningful distinction as it doesn't really matter to us how the game is coded anyways... it's the outcome that matters.


I think it makes things harder to discuss this issue if the OP hasn't played MLB 13 - 15... as there has been quite a "swing" in how pitch/swing timing has been calibrated in those recent iterations of The Show... MLB 13 was the weirdest of all (I did not like it at all), but since then I think one year was tighter (i.e., harder to catch up to high inside fastball) than another... and this year is kinda like MLB 13 in a sense that timing window isn't as tight (compared to MLB 15, which was pretty tight).

So if OP's claim is simply that it is a bit too easy to pull in MLB 16, then I totally agree... I think it should be a little bit tighter (but perhaps not as tight as MLB 15).

However I'm guessing that this is probably done because with the new Precision Input, perhaps the devs thought it would become harder to hit in general (because placing PCI accurately matters more), so the timing window might have been "overcorrected".

Just a speculation though.

[Bobhead]

Re: Poor bat-ball physics have a major affect on hitting &amp; pitching

I've not had much problem pulling pitches, and I've definitely not had much problem having the CPU pull pitches against me.

I do have my complaints with the ball physics, but this is not one of them.

[SpikeSpiegel]

Re: Poor bat-ball physics have a major affect on hitting &amp; pitching

That game didn't go like you are describing at all.

Both Volquez and Harvey were allowing hits from the onset, about one per half inning, not so hardly hit but mostly on the pull side. In fact I don't remember any of them went "inside-out" which used to happen (perhaps prior to MLB 13?)... instead, we now tend to pop up inside pitches a lot, when you are late...

I used Pulse on Legend, since I thought Pulse might be the most accurate interface this year (and I'm not very good at using Analog or Meter anyways). But I actually used sliders that give slight boost to CPU, because CPU's offense is quite a bit "nerfed" with sliders at default this year... Perhaps I should've used sliders at default just for this testing.


Perhaps I'm just confusing things by claiming that this is not a physics issue because people use the term physics very liberally here in this forum, but what I personally mean by "physics" is literally solving physical equations. But I realize that's not a very meaningful distinction as it doesn't really matter to us how the game is coded anyways... it's the outcome that matters.


I think it makes things harder to discuss this issue if the OP hasn't played MLB 13 - 15... as there has been quite a "swing" in how pitch/swing timing has been calibrated in those recent iterations of The Show... MLB 13 was the weirdest of all (I did not like it at all), but since then I think one year was tighter (i.e., harder to catch up to high inside fastball) than another... and this year is kinda like MLB 13 in a sense that timing window isn't as tight (compared to MLB 15, which was pretty tight).

So if OP's claim is simply that it is a bit too easy to pull in MLB 16, then I totally agree... I think it should be a little bit tighter (but perhaps not as tight as MLB 15).

However I'm guessing that this is probably done because with the new Precision Input, perhaps the devs thought it would become harder to hit in general (because placing PCI accurately matters more), so the timing window might have been "overcorrected".

Just a speculation though.

Like a previous poster said, MLB 12 was spot-on with timing with regards to hitting. That's really is crux of a baseball game. Why even mess with it if it was basically perfect? When I made contact in 12, I knew exactly where the ball was going to go (direction-wise) in that moment from contact to the camera switching to the field view. I could hit that grounder to the right side to move runners with ease and even online (when most players cheesed with the bunt). In 16, I swing and I feel like I waited back and everything, and I'm pulling the ball (not just slightly, but pulling it foul). Then, I go to the replay and I see the bat crossing the plate exactly how I felt I swung but the ball going in a direction that doesn't make sense. On that David Ross fly ball foul (in the Youtube video), I felt like waited back well, then I go to the replay and the bat doesn't even fully cross the plate on point of contact so the ball should go just ever so slightly to the opposite field, yet it's pulled foul.

Whether the math is off or something else, the timing at the plate just isn't right. Maybe they overcompensated for TV input lag. I purposefully bought an HDTV on the smaller side that uses a monitor panel so it has very very low input lag. I played The Show on PS3 on a SDTV so there was no input lag in fact.

I've not had much problem pulling pitches, and I've definitely not had much problem having the CPU pull pitches against me.

I do have my complaints with the ball physics, but this is not one of them.

It's not an issue of pulling pitches. It's an issue of hitting inside pitches on the black or near the black with authority to the pull field and not going foul. I pull pitches I'm "late" on as shown in the Youtube video in my first post.