Position changes are an important part of player development

[RandyBass]

Reliever Edwin Diaz was recently called up to the Mariners' after beginning the season as a starter at AA. As a starter he was sitting mid 90s with a good slider, but struggled with a third pitch, so they moved him to the pen and now he's throwing upper 90s on the 25 man. (Edit: and doesn't have as much need for a third pitch)

Bryce Harper was drafted as a catcher, but moved to the outfield so his bat could be fast tracked through the minors.

Just two examples of what actually takes place when MLB organizations run their frachises in real life, and stuff like this happens quite often.

In order for The Show to make that next step it has to figure out a way to factor this important aspect into the game.

[RandyBass]

Re: Position changes are an important part of player development

Should add, it even happens at the MLB level, though less often.

Obvious scenarios are for when guys get old and move to corner positions or out from behind the plate. Then you have anomalies like say John Smoltz becoming a closer, though not sure what all factored into that, and if it was injury concerns or what.

Bottom line is, franchise needs, scouting ability, coaching ability, player ability, and yes probably even injury concerns play a part in this decision making process.

[KBLover]

Re: Position changes are an important part of player development

Reliever Edwin Diaz was recently called up to the Mariners' after beginning the season as a starter at AA. As a starter he was sitting mid 90s with a good slider, but struggled with a third pitch, so they moved him to the pen and now he's throwing upper 90s on the 25 man. (Edit: and doesn't have as much need for a third pitch)

Bryce Harper was drafted as a catcher, but moved to the outfield so his bat could be fast tracked through the minors.

Just two examples of what actually takes place when MLB organizations run their frachises in real life, and stuff like this happens quite often.

In order for The Show to make that next step it has to figure out a way to factor this important aspect into the game.

I do it manually. If a kid has/ends up with defensive ratings that would suggest one position over another, then I'd move him. Or if I have a talent that would be a ML at another spot, I'll move him and if his defensive ratings aren't quite there, he'll spend time in the minors to try to gain them. A starter with 2 pitch types (I consider 2-seam/Sinker the same, 4-seam/RFB the same, all the curves the same, all the changes, including palmball, the same for this purpose), I'll play him and if he struggles, I'll turn him into a reliever sometimes, etc.

I'm not sure how the development system would be able to do that because it's as much a judgement call/organization-specific call that it might be hard to program accurately. Even OOTP doesn't automatically move players - you have to do it and play them at whatever position so they gain experience with it.

Getting the AI teams to do it reasonably would be a tall order in-and-of itself.

[WaitTilNextYear]

Re: Position changes are an important part of player development

This sort of random (but hopefully somewhat realistic...shouldn't go from a DH-only type to SS) position dynamism would add a lot to the game. As would an email "so and so is playing around with a new pitch" and maybe by throwing it more the pitch itself could improve. Two examples of dynamism in the game I would like to see.

[RandyBass]

Re: Position changes are an important part of player development

Getting the AI teams to do it reasonably would be a tall order in-and-of itself.

Wouldn't be that hard, just come up with "standard moves" like C to 1B, CF to corner OF, etc. And limit the AI's possible moves to those. Maybe also have ratings for every position to help guide the AI. Then base it on frachise needs for the most part.

Could maybe also tally up all the position changes made the past 5 years or so, and put a cap on it based on those numbers, to keep things from going bonkers.

Ian Desmond, another guy... Pulling a Robin Yount.

This would add a lot to Franchise Mode.

[RandyBass]

Re: Position changes are an important part of player development

This sort of random (but hopefully somewhat realistic...shouldn't go from a DH-only type to SS) position dynamism would add a lot to the game. As would an email "so and so is playing around with a new pitch" and maybe by throwing it more the pitch itself could improve. Two examples of dynamism in the game I would like to see.

Pitch development (or lack there of) would be cool, and could serve as a factor into how guys are used. Typically relievers have less pitches than starters, and when moved to the pen they generally gain a touch of velocity because they can let loose and not worry about going through 3+ innings.

[EWRMETS]

Re: Position changes are an important part of player development

Something else that would be cool but probably hard to implement would be diminished velocity for pitchers based on age and usage. Like in real life, older pitchers would lose velocity and rely more on breaking pitches or sinkers/cutters.

[Vtownwaves]

Re: Position changes are an important part of player development

You know, I think they just need a system where they show a player's overall at every position. They already have formulas based on ratings for each position, give us the end result. Also show us an avg for every rating at that position. For instance there might be some strong arms infield but the avg should be higher in the outfield in general and rf more than other positions. If we had this info available we and the cpu could use it to better develop talent from drafts.

I can't tell you how many players I've moved from every other position to 2b, just to have them capable of becoming quality if not star players when they were a 50 or so elsewhere. Same with moving weaker armed outfielders to lf. It makes them viable. The game should be able to do that as well.

[Jr.]

Re: Position changes are an important part of player development

You know, I think they just need a system where they show a player's overall at every position. They already have formulas based on ratings for each position, give us the end result. Also show us an avg for every rating at that position. For instance there might be some strong arms infield but the avg should be higher in the outfield in general and rf more than other positions. If we had this info available we and the cpu could use it to better develop talent from drafts.

I can't tell you how many players I've moved from every other position to 2b, just to have them capable of becoming quality if not star players when they were a 50 or so elsewhere. Same with moving weaker armed outfielders to lf. It makes them viable. The game should be able to do that as well.

This is what I'm thinking, too. I don't know how you can design an mechanism within the game to move guys to new positions, but they already have position-based OVRs in the game. They can expand upon that and make that determine primary/secondary positions rather than the arbitrary -10% for secondary positions and -40% when they're completely out of position that they do now.

This would allow for the greatest flexibility and natural adjustments by the CPU.

[Bobhead]

Re: Position changes are an important part of player development

This is what I'm thinking, too. I don't know how you can design an mechanism within the game to move guys to new positions, but they already have position-based OVRs in the game. They can expand upon that and make that determine primary/secondary positions rather than the arbitrary -10% for secondary positions and -40% when they're completely out of position that they do now.

This would allow for the greatest flexibility and natural adjustments by the CPU.

In a perfect world, a complex "mechanism" wouldn't be needed. Usually in real life, the player's ability tells you what position changes are possible: You can look at David Ortiz and Mike Trout's defensive stats and have a pretty good idea of which one would be a more successful shortstop.

That same player ability should already be represented in the ratings.

Examples:

A catcher with a reaction of 10 would have a hard time moving to 3B.
A third baseman with a speed of 57 would not be moved to CF.
A CF with a reaction of 90 might be moved to SS.
A 1B with decent speed and a fielding of 85 would likely be moved to the corner OF.

[Jr.]

Re: Position changes are an important part of player development

In a perfect world, a complex "mechanism" wouldn't be needed. Usually, the player's ability tells you what positions are possible, and that same player ability should already be represented in the ratings.

Examples:

A catcher with a reaction of 10 would have a hard time moving to 3B.
A third baseman with a speed of 57 would not be moved to CF.
A CF with a reaction of 90 might be moved to SS.
A 1B with decent speed and a fielding of 85 would likely be moved to the corner OF.

Yeah that's what I meant by they kind of do this already. I've noticed players' OVR adjusting when you change their position. They should remove the idea of choosing secondary positions and just make it based off of what is necessary to play a certain position, like you're saying.

[woody2goody]

Re: Position changes are an important part of player development

Pro Evolution Soccer has a feature where you can pick a primary position, and then as many secondary positions as necessary, not just preset ones.

Also, when you move a player's position within the lineup you can see their overall rating for each position.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

[KBLover]

Re: Position changes are an important part of player development

Pro Evolution Soccer has a feature where you can pick a primary position, and then as many secondary positions as necessary, not just preset ones.

Also, when you move a player's position within the lineup you can see their overall rating for each position.

That's the way it should be. In fact, I wish there were no positions at all for players. Their skills determine where they should play on the field. Since you can play anyone anywhere anyway (lol) their skills should say how much they suffer and the OVR can adjust accordingly to give the user an idea.

Why do we need positions attached to players when we have their raw skill ratings?

Then we wouldn't even need a "development system for positions" like Bobhead said - how ever their skills mature based on talent and training and injury/health determines how their career arc goes.

If only...I guess.

[WaitTilNextYear]

Re: Position changes are an important part of player development

Why do we need positions attached to players when we have their raw skill ratings?

I'd think most casuals (the guys playing the microtransaction modes who are more interested in getting stuff and leveling up) that don't know much would be irate at not having pre-set positions and not knowing where guys should play. Much like the simple numerical 0-99 rating scale, well-defined positions allow for casuals to spend as little time as possible on team/game management, while maximizing their time getting loot.

I also think the positions are probably a crutch for the AI. I think the cpu would have a tough time managing rosters without positions to base its logic on.

[Ghost Of The Year]

Re: Position changes are an important part of player development

As long as I can edit a players position after I start my season, the way it is presently, I'm fine with it as it stands currently. For example, if I were to start a franchise in the late 1970's I could play one season with Dale Murphy as a catcher, like he started, then when the year was right, edit him to be a firstbaseman, then centerfield, then eventually rightfield. I don't care how the CPU runs it's organisation. Whatever limitations it has, I just like to think of it as the CPU not being the humble genius I am that stands before you today.