Pop-Ups and Dribblers in front of the plate really need to be toned down...

[bobloblah1980]

Re: Pop-Ups and Dribblers in front of the plate really need to be toned down...

The higher the difficulty level, the higher the rate of popups and dribblers. I was stuck on super low level batting for a long time and just in the past 2 weeks I just jacked sliders in my favor and went to hall of fame. I did this because I can hit roughly the same but I actually get struck out. Like upwards of 7 times a game, and sometimes more. However, basically as a what I see as a difficulty simulation type move, popups and dribblers increase dramatically. Any type of pitch, pitcher, hitter, count, etc. It's frustrating when the pitcher let's a fastball go down broadway and you even guess pitch and jack it straight up.

Artificial difficulty is rather transparent. Huge criticism of the series as a whole.

So instead of the pop ups and dribblers what we're you getting grounder and foul balls? what difficulty were you originally playing at?

[bobloblah1980]

Re: Pop-Ups and Dribblers in front of the plate really need to be toned down...

I also wonder if this is a timing window issue. Because as we know the timing window gets smaller the higher the difficulty you go.. I may experiment with this

[KBLover]

Re: Pop-Ups and Dribblers in front of the plate really need to be toned down...

I also wonder if this is a timing window issue. Because as we know the timing window gets smaller the higher the difficulty you go.. I may experiment with this

I think it's more a PCI issue, at least on interfaces you don't control the PCI (I know that's Directional, not sure about Analog), but even when you do, larger can be easier to place well. When I see the CPU hit a poor hit like that, almost always the PCI is on the fringe of contact with the ball icon in the swing info. I think if the PCI was squared on those contacts, it would be a screamer foul. When I see the CPU hit balls like that, the ball icon is solidly inside the PCI.

Wider timing might actually produce MORE bad hits (because instead of outright misses, you get fringe timings - Very Early, which might still be a decent contact chance, instead of Too Early, which is much more often a miss, for example). No matter how wide the window is, the possibility for fringe timing is there, as far as we know, that might be what gets increased (the thinking that you might put more balls in play or foul more off, so that's why it's "easier"...kind of the hitting version of how lower difficulties mean more strikes because that's considered "easier").

Raising contact and timing does give you better chances at solid/perfect execution, but it raises everything...except misses, which it drops (by making other outcomes more likely). Those misses have to turn into SOMETHING. It might be terrible contact.

If it is a PCI issue - not sure if larger or smaller would be "better". Smaller might make for less fringe contact and more misses, but the fringe is always there and might be more likely because it's harder to get the PCI to "cover" the ball completely. I lean towards larger mostly because it makes the contact % better, but then that fringe contact problem shows up. Le sigh.

[WaitTilNextYear]

Re: Pop-Ups and Dribblers in front of the plate really need to be toned down...

While I notice a decent, and sometimes frustrating, amount of pop outs to the catcher and nubbers, how much of this is due to the game overdoing it and how much is due to my user inputs?

For example, when I pop out yet again, I almost always notice that, as a zone hitter, I just swung down the middle on a pitch in the upper 3rd of strike zone...is that a flaw in the game? Or is that how it should be with me swinging significantly underneath?

Similarly on little nubbers in front of the plate, usually my timing is way, way off when I get these and I've been lucky to make contact at all.

The ball physics can always use improving, but my hunch is a lot of these weak contact plays are due to user inputs and whether they have good/bad timing and good/bad location when using the zone hitting interface. Also sliders. I've lowered contact and jacked up solid hits a little to address some of the issues I was having.

[bobloblah1980]

Re: Pop-Ups and Dribblers in front of the plate really need to be toned down...

I've really noticed this how much more the cpu pitchers work the edges this year at least on all star anyways. Which, if you aren't using zone will really effect the pci placement.. there really seems to be a dramatic up in the zone , down in the zone approach from cpu pitchers, hence more dribblers/pop ups . At least that's what I see.

That's why I wonder about using high timing and lower contact and see if that helps..I may play with it at some point

[WaitTilNextYear]

Re: Pop-Ups and Dribblers in front of the plate really need to be toned down...

I've really noticed this how much more the cpu pitchers work the edges this year at least on all star anyways. Which, if you aren't using zone will really effect the pci placement.. there really seems to be a dramatic up in the zone , down in the zone approach from cpu pitchers, hence more dribblers/pop ups . At least that's what I see.

That's why I wonder about using high timing and lower contact and see if that helps..I may play with it at some point

Agreed. I've also noticed the drastic north and south approach the cpu takes and I also hit on All-Star. There is a lot of extreme high edge followed by extreme low edge of the strike zone in their sequencing.

Another thing I've noticed about the sequencing is the in-the-zone then out-of-the-zone tendency. For example, if the cpu pitcher hits strike one with a fastball on the outer half, the next pitch is nearly guaranteed to be out of the zone away. To the point that taking the 2nd pitch of an 0-1 at-bat is usually a good idea.

One additional thing that I haven't seen mentioned is the cpu's uncanny ability to hit corners and edges after going down in 3-0 counts. And this is with the cpu pitch accuracy sliders lowered substantially. You still get a fair share of meat pitches, but a lot of the time I am geared up with a power swing on 3-0 and 3-1 only for them to hit the black with an offspeed pitch. Not many pitchers can locate offspeed in counts like those.

[Bobhead]

Re: Pop-Ups and Dribblers in front of the plate really need to be toned down...

I also wonder if this is a timing window issue. Because as we know the timing window gets smaller the higher the difficulty you go.. I may experiment with this

In my experience the smaller timing window actually makes it less of a problem, because those balls are more likely to go foul/out of play.

In fact this very problem is why I play on Hall of Fame difficulty (or even Legend sometimes), instead of All Star where I probably belong. A smaller PCI means less of that extremely weak contact, because you have less coverage overall. I'd rather be overmatched and swing and miss than repeatedly pop-up and dribbler out due to a flaw in the system.

[KBLover]

Re: Pop-Ups and Dribblers in front of the plate really need to be toned down...

While I notice a decent, and sometimes frustrating, amount of pop outs to the catcher and nubbers, how much of this is due to the game overdoing it and how much is due to my user inputs?

Considering I hit on Directional, there's not a whole lot of input I can do. That leaves the game.

And since I see popups (especially popups) with Good timing, even green PCI indicators, I don't think my timing is a consistent issue. Heck, I've hit harder balls on Early/Late timing, especially JE/JL. Those seems to also be away from fielders more. I swear "Good" = "Towards one of the primary fields (left, center, right)" and JE/JL is more to allies and E/L is more to the lines.

There's also no control over the RNG aspect of trajectory. A popup didn't have to be a popup. It could have been a lazy can of corn or a "low fly ball" with some pace on it that's tougher to defend. I see all three on "PCI on the bottom half of the ball". User input can't dictate which of those three beyond putting the PCI there (and in my case, I can't even do that which also means I can't fail to do so...removing user error).

One additional thing that I haven't seen mentioned is the cpu's uncanny ability to hit corners and edges after going down in 3-0 counts. And this is with the cpu pitch accuracy sliders lowered substantially.

Good lord, yes.

It's ridiculous. Screws with walk rates, swing rates (I have to keep swinging on 3-2 to protect the plate until they finally walk me or it's a BIP), contact rates (all those fouls are not misses and if I foul 6, 7, 8 pitches mutliple times a game...), ugh.

Only plus side is it runs up pitch count...but then it messes with that, too.

[bobloblah1980]

Re: Pop-Ups and Dribblers in front of the plate really need to be toned down...

Okay, is vet still the pound the strike zone too much level? For both the corner painting and the pop up issue? As the 1 poster said it wasn't as much of an issue on lower difficulties. What if we made human contact and whatnot way down to simulate AS difficulty level and if the pitching isn't as crazy on the corners maybe that's the way to go...thoughts?

[KBLover]

Re: Pop-Ups and Dribblers in front of the plate really need to be toned down...

Okay, is vet still the pound the strike zone too much level? For both the corner painting and the pop up issue? As the 1 poster said it wasn't as much of an issue on lower difficulties. What if we made human contact and whatnot way down to simulate AS difficulty level and if the pitching isn't as crazy on the corners maybe that's the way to go...thoughts?

I think vet and lower still is like that.

The only thing I think you'd lose with that is the walks unless you can get the CPU to miss bad enough to go out of the zone. Probably would need a very low strike freq and low consistency.

[bobloblah1980]

Re: Pop-Ups and Dribblers in front of the plate really need to be toned down...

Alright well I'm going to test out so excited of this stuff. . Anyone got some base vet hitting sliders to try out?

[KBLover]

Re: Pop-Ups and Dribblers in front of the plate really need to be toned down...

For testing and just seeing the effects/concept, I'd just go default.

I wouldn't even worry about the too many strikes at this point. Right now, you're interested in trajectories so I'd just focus on that and then go from there.

For example, test default, then test your theory with the timing slider, etc.

[bobloblah1980]

Re: Pop-Ups and Dribblers in front of the plate really need to be toned down...

For testing and just seeing the effects/concept, I'd just go default.

I wouldn't even worry about the too many strikes at this point. Right now, you're interested in trajectories so I'd just focus on that and then go from there.

For example, test default, then test your theory with the timing slider, etc.

Well yes and no.. because one of the issues on AS or higher is that the pitcher's are on the black steady which influences the pci, which influences the pop ups etc..so they kinda go hand in hand I believe. .... anyhow just to be clear I am looking for less dribbles ( not so much grounders) and infield pop ups not cans of corn correct?

I figure 10-20 games is a good sample size no?

[KBLover]

Re: Pop-Ups and Dribblers in front of the plate really need to be toned down...

Well yes and no.. because one of the issues on AS or higher is that the pitcher's are on the black steady which influences the pci, which influences the pop ups etc..so they kinda go hand in hand I believe. .... anyhow just to be clear I am looking for less dribbles ( not so much grounders) and infield pop ups not cans of corn correct?

I figure 10-20 games is a good sample size no?

Right, you just want less pop ups (especially infield flies and foul pop ups that stay in play) and 10 foot dribblers. If you turn the dribbler into 4-hoppers to short and the pop ups to routine flies to the outfield, that would be a positive sign.

10-20 games wouldn't be too bad. It's enough to see if you've lessened the trend and heading in the right direction at the least.

[bobloblah1980]

Re: Pop-Ups and Dribblers in front of the plate really need to be toned down...

Keep in mind I am in 2020 for my franchise but I am going to post basic game to game info for the next 10 -20 games all human hitter sliders are at veteran and 4 across the board and I'm focusing mostly on SP stats

Cpu SP D Keuchel 7.0 IP, 9h, 3R, 3ER, 2BB, 4K, 108 p
Relievers 2.0 IP, 4H, 2R, 2ER, 1K

for a 1st game, very interesting.. the hits were excessive but most stuff that would've been cheesey pop ups were fouls, cans of corn etc.. i even saw some choppers,and gap singles and i literally didn't see any dribblers..

I also didn't see the wild in/out, up/down on the black like in AS. Dallas was down in the zone as he should and I didn't really see crazy high FB until the hard throwing relievers came in.