Any Advice Signing coaches and scouts?

[Sgexpat]

Re: Any Advice Signing coaches and scouts?

As KBLover and others on the boards have said, you can not improve running speed, stamina, velocity, or break. However, while velocity and break will NEVER go down, stamina and speed ALMOST ALWAYS go down at least 1 a year, even players under 25. I find that kind of ridiculous but now I know better what to prioritize when signing fa, trading for prospects and drafting.

I’ve since gone through my players and determined this is correct. It doesn’t jive with the scouting process which shows the ceiling players have and for those traits the players often start at a lower level. Those used to go up, particularly in prospects, in MLB15. They should really fix that.

Its imperative that a starting pitcher have good "stuff"(break/velocity) as it wont ever improve, and even more so that they have an absurd amount of stamina. If you plan on keeping an ace 10+ years(think Thor or Jose Fernandez), you better make sure they have at least a 90 in stamina. By year 10 they could be under 80 and rarely complete games for you. Same goes for speed with fielders(not necessarily catchers or 1b). If you want a guy to be blitzing around in the outfield for a decade to come, they better be over 90.

For stamina and speed I already go through and reverse those regressions as a matter of course (that’s why editing is so powerful!). Will also do so for the CPU at the end of each season too.
I’ve been thinking about doing some random boosting to CPU and Human-owned prospects Speed, Stamina, and [now that I know] Velocity and Break at the end of each season. Not sure how I will do it yet, but at the end of this season I will, to ensure there is some development of these traits in the prospect pool across the league.

[Vtownwaves]

Re: Any Advice Signing coaches and scouts?

I’ve been thinking about doing some random boosting to CPU and Human-owned prospects Speed, Stamina, and [now that I know] Velocity and Break at the end of each season. Not sure how I will do it yet, but at the end of this season I will, to ensure there is some development of these traits in the prospect pool across the league.

I like this idea a LOT. Im thinkng of making specialists when boosting velocity and break unless they're almost even(within 5) then they'll "slowly"(based on potential) go up in both. SO for instance an A prospect might go up 5+ in one and maybe only 1 in the other, depending on age and current rating.

Im also thinking that a good enough fastball pitcher can ROUTINELY get someone out on 3 pitches in the middle of the plate with 95+mph heat. So to counter it, they wont get as much stamina boost as break pitchers. Prolly the same scale as before but even an 18 A prospect with 100mph(rare) might only get 1-5 in stamina a year(based on need of development).

However a starting break pitcher will get at LEAST 5 a year in stamina boosts. An 18 A pitcher, depending on need for improvement, might go up 10, but the boosts will gradually slow down as they get higher in rating/age. This is because a break pitcher isnt always hitting the strike zone, so smarter batters wont swing. This adds up in the pitch count, same with foul balls that might be harder to make contact if it was a 95+ mph fastball.

So whatever is their dominant rating will receive the bigger boost if both are going up(young prospects), or make it the only one I boost if they have a clear dominant trait. As for speed on position players, depending on need and potential/age, I'll try to get outfields up to 80 speed if they arent already, if they start above it, I'll slowly creep to 90, or 100 depending on where they are at the start. So if a 18 a prospect is already 80+, Im making him close to 100 by 28 latest. By that point he should have peaked athletically. Once you're 29, you dont get to go up in athletics. So as an A potential 28 is the last year you can improve on those "fixed ratings", B will be 27, c 26, d 25, F 24. Of course if a player reaches the potential needed to improve at that age, they continue to progress...


But i love the idea, you got my mind running laps trying to create scales and systems to implement...

[KBLover]

Re: Any Advice Signing coaches and scouts?

I’ve since gone through my players and determined this is correct. It doesn’t jive with the scouting process which shows the ceiling players have and for those traits the players often start at a lower level. Those used to go up, particularly in prospects, in MLB15. They should really fix that.

Yeah it seems this aspect is still very rough. At the very least allow training to increase the ratings if they can't go up "naturally", in addition to allowing it to slow/eliminate declines for players that aren't older.

The scouting process...I wonder about that, too. If a player has a ceiling of "50" - he'll never get better than whatever the "average" rating is? Ever? Do ratings now have hidden individual maximums? Are the "potential" grades listed really growth rates?

So many unknown pieces of information.

[KBLover]

Re: Any Advice Signing coaches and scouts?

In regards to increasing fixed ratings - I'm going to do something quick and simple:

Roll a 12-sided die, subtract age adjustment. I'll do this for anyone in AAA or higher with a C or higher potential (to cut down work). No decreases for STA/SPD because the game does that fine on it's own. For others, negative results = rating dropping. This will occur during Spring Training.

Stamina (no declines for negative results):
If age > 29, age adjustment is 8 (so max gain is 4 and 33% chance of any gain).
If age is between 24 and 29, age adjustment is 6 (so max gain is 6 and 50% chance of any gain).
If age < 24, age adjustment is 4 (so max gain is 8 and chance 67% chance of any gain).


Speed (no declines for negative results):
If age > 26, age adjustment is 10 (so max gain is 2 and 17% chance of any gain).
If age is between 21 and 25, age adjustment is 9 (so max gain is 3 and 25% chance of any gain).
If age < 20, age adjustment is 8 (so max gain is 4 and chance 33% chance of any gain).


Velocity:
If age > 29, age adjustment is 10 (so max gain is 2 and 17% chance of any gain, if negative, take 1/2 only and round up - so max decline is 5).
If age is between 21 and 28, age adjustment is 8 (so max gain is 4 and 25% chance of any gain, if negative result, take 1/2 only and round up - so max decline is 4).
If age < 20, age adjustment is 8 (so max gain is 4 and chance 33% chance of any gain, if negative result, make no change).

Movement:
If age > 29, age adjustment is 8 (so max gain is 4 and 25% chance of any gain, if negative, take 1/2 only and round up - so max decline is 4).
If age is between 21 and 28, age adjustment is 6 (take 1/2 result only and round up, so max gain is 3 with 50% chance, max decline is 3).
If age < 20, age adjustment is 8 (so max gain is 4 and chance 33% chance of any gain, if negative result, make no change).

[Sgexpat]

Re: Any Advice Signing coaches and scouts?

In regards to increasing fixed ratings - I'm going to do something quick and simple:

Roll a 12-sided die, subtract age adjustment. I'll do this for anyone in AAA or higher with a C or higher potential (to cut down work). No decreases for STA/SPD because the game does that fine on it's own. For others, negative results = rating dropping. This will occur during Spring Training.

Stamina (no declines for negative results):
If age > 29, age adjustment is 8 (so max gain is 4 and 33% chance of any gain).
If age is between 24 and 29, age adjustment is 6 (so max gain is 6 and 50% chance of any gain).
If age < 24, age adjustment is 4 (so max gain is 8 and chance 67% chance of any gain).


Speed (no declines for negative results):
If age > 26, age adjustment is 10 (so max gain is 2 and 17% chance of any gain).
If age is between 21 and 25, age adjustment is 9 (so max gain is 3 and 25% chance of any gain).
If age < 20, age adjustment is 8 (so max gain is 4 and chance 33% chance of any gain).


Velocity:
If age > 29, age adjustment is 10 (so max gain is 2 and 17% chance of any gain, if negative, take 1/2 only and round up - so max decline is 5).
If age is between 21 and 28, age adjustment is 8 (so max gain is 4 and 25% chance of any gain, if negative result, take 1/2 only and round up - so max decline is 4).
If age < 20, age adjustment is 8 (so max gain is 4 and chance 33% chance of any gain, if negative result, make no change).

Movement:
If age > 29, age adjustment is 8 (so max gain is 4 and 25% chance of any gain, if negative, take 1/2 only and round up - so max decline is 4).
If age is between 21 and 28, age adjustment is 6 (take 1/2 result only and round up, so max gain is 3 with 50% chance, max decline is 3).
If age < 20, age adjustment is 8 (so max gain is 4 and chance 33% chance of any gain, if negative result, make no change).

This is the right way of thinking about it IMHO

[Vtownwaves]

Re: Any Advice Signing coaches and scouts?

I like that idea but I have a problem with random improvement, thats just me though. Im trying to make mine a little easier and I think Ive gotten to a point where Im just going to use the potential rating to determine where ratings will end.

So an A potential will be seeking to become 90+ at stamina/speed before they turn 29. Where they end will depend on what they started at THEIR FIRST YEAR BARRING PROGRESSION. If they progress in potential, the moment it happens will become the new starting point. So ANY A potential with 79+ in stamina or speed to start will peak at 99 by age 28, boosting them more early than late(declining improvements as they age). If they're 18-20, I might say 69 is the cutoff for 99 rating. If they were an older(21+) prospect, 78 would become a 98, 77=97, and so on.

Same for every other letter, just based on basic grades. 21 B potential that started at 65 would stop improving at 27 years old with an 85(if they were 18-20 they could be as low as a 55 and still reach 85. Wont even touch Cs Ds or Fs. they have little to no shot of making it to my mlb roster most likely. Point being Im not gonna improve anyone more than 15-30 points through a career in anything. Not unless you're a raw 18yo A potential, maybe you'll go up higher than that. I'll switch positions if I think you cant make it happen where you are with a fixed rating.

And after looking at editing the roster closer, I doubt I'll do many adjustments to velocity or break. If I did, it would prolly be velocity up 1 mph per year on each pitch for only a and b prospects(as many points as necessary per pitch). Its not as if you NEED high velocity or break to dominate, its just easier if you have it. Kyle hendricks is an 87 overall now when he's happy and has neither velocity(53) nor break(74) in the 80s. His fastest pitch is like 88 mph... Still goes 15 and 5 most years, something like that.

So ill just focus my trading signing and drafting on pitchers above 80s in those 2 and just boost stamina if needed. Wont worry about boosting speed of corner infielders and catchers as much either. They're usually slower power hitters anyway to my knowledge. dont wanna spend 10 years making progressions....

[Sgexpat]

Re: Any Advice Signing coaches and scouts?

I like that idea but I have a problem with random improvement, thats just me though. Im trying to make mine a little easier and I think Ive gotten to a point where Im just going to use the potential rating to determine where ratings will end.

So an A potential will be seeking to become above 90 at stamina/speed before they turn 29. Where they end will depend on what they started at THEIR FIRST YEAR BARRING PROGRESSION. If they progress in potential, the moment it happens will become the new starting point. So An A potential with 71 in stamina or speed will peak at 91, boosting them more early than late(declining improvements as they age). Same for every other letter, just based on basic grades. B potential that started at 65 would stop improving at 27 years old with an 85. C prospect who starts at 58 would end with a 78 at 26 years old.

Wouldn’t this be too deterministic? I think the dice roll helps with the unpredictability – its more organic / immersive – IRL its pretty hard to determine who will reach their full potential and how (e.g. sometimes a guy comes in as a fireballer and ends up as a control artist or guy comes in as a soft tossing starter but ends up successful as a LOOGY throwing harder for a lefty batter or two out of the pen etc) etc.

Wont even touch ds or fs. they have no shot of making it most likely. Point being Im not gonna improve anyone more than 15-30 points through a career in anything. Not unless you're a raw 18yo A potential, maybe you'll go up higher than that. I'll switch positions if I think you cant make it happen where you are with a fixed rating. And after looking at editing the roster closer, I doubt I'll do many adjustments to velocity or break. If I did, it would prolly be velocity up 1 mph per year on each pitch for only a and b prospects(as many points as necessary per pitch).

Broadly makes sense

I might not even touch c prospects till they become a b through performance when it comes to velocity. Its not as if you NEED high velocity or break to dominate, its just easier if you have it. Kyle hendricks is an 87 overall now when he's happy and has neither velocity(53) nor break(74) in the 80s. His fastest pitch is like 88 mph... Still goes 15 and 5 most years, something like that.

Agreed, yeah, the goal shouldn’t be to get every pitcher to develop in these areas

So ill just focus my trading signing and drafting on pitchers above 80s in those 2 and just boost stamina if needed. Wont worry about boosting speed of corner infielders and catchers as much either. They're usually slower power hitters anyway to my knowledge. dont wanna spend 10 years making progressions....

This all makes sense. You could also look at body type (6’3 240 pound dudes shouldn’t be getting speed boosts…ever)

[KBLover]

Re: Any Advice Signing coaches and scouts?

I like that idea but I have a problem with random improvement, thats just me though.

The whole progression system is built on random improvement/declines...

[Vtownwaves]

Re: Any Advice Signing coaches and scouts?

I know it is KB, I hate it to be honest. But I come from the madden system that was implemented a few years back where you just get xp every game and build up the stats you want(think RTTS). So to me, I feel if someone has a potential in the 90s, they should reach their potential... unless performance changes that. Theres always the opportunity that a person with high potential will LOSE some. They may go on a terrible slump or get beaten up on the mound for a while. If they become a b instead of an a, just like progressing from b to a, I will make the necessary changes.I will stop their progression at 27, and I will stop them from reaching the 90s for those ratings(stamina and speed). But I'd rather see improvement be more based on production and potential than randomly rolling dice.

Also sarge, I totally agree on your points. Every pitcher shouldnt be reaching 80+ ratings in velocity or break, only ones who deserve it. I'll have to figure something out for break but I'll prolly just make it like stamina and speed where its potential based. If your potential is an 85, thats where you should avg out on break. Maybe your best break pitch can get to an 89 but it still wont be a 90 and your lowest break pitch will make it so you round out to an 85 break rating. But this will only be for people who have higher break than velocity. If you have more velocity, Im not gonna worry much about your break, and vice versa.

Funny side note, when you said the thing about bigger players not getting speed, I took it the wrong way at first thinking you meant velocity. Went on a tangent about how some of the strongest pitchers were bigger than your "maxs" and how it all translated to stronger fastballs... then I reread it and was like, oh ****, he meant running speed.... DELETE PARAGRAPH!

[KBLover]

Re: Any Advice Signing coaches and scouts?

I know it is KB, I hate it to be honest. But I come from the madden system that was implemented a few years back where you just get xp every game and build up the stats you want(think RTTS). So to me, I feel if someone has a potential in the 90s, they should reach their potential... unless performance changes that.

And I detested the XP system in Madden. I played under it in M13...couldn't stand it. Had to come up with a system that actually gave players a chance to fail/grow slow, etc. If only irl players progressed as smoothly and seamlessly as Madden makes it seem...

Much much preferred the M12 system. It had flaws, but at least I couldn't just sit back and guarantee a path to greatness for a great college draftee. I wanted the chance to draft Ryan Leaf (Manziel wasn't a thing in 2012 ) or one of the litany of "top college kids" that are more hype than substance.

That is a challenge real organizations face, and I think a realistic system has to allow for it separate and apart from performance (especially the "he's slumping so he's getting worse" logic games like to use - a slump is a slump, a streak is a streak...it's not indicative in such small samples). I'll probably revise the movement/velocity to include chances of declines to try to recreate it.

[Sgexpat]

Re: Any Advice Signing coaches and scouts?

And I detested the XP system in Madden. I played under it in M13...couldn't stand it. Had to come up with a system that actually gave players a chance to fail/grow slow, etc. If only irl players progressed as smoothly and seamlessly as Madden makes it seem...

Much much preferred the M12 system. It had flaws, but at least I couldn't just sit back and guarantee a path to greatness for a great college draftee. I wanted the chance to draft Ryan Leaf (Manziel wasn't a thing in 2012 ) or one of the litany of "top college kids" that are more hype than substance.

That is a challenge real organizations face, and I think a realistic system has to allow for it separate and apart from performance (especially the "he's slumping so he's getting worse" logic games like to use - a slump is a slump, a streak is a streak...it's not indicative in such small samples). I'll probably revise the movement/velocity to include chances of declines to try to recreate it.

This problem has put me off Madden basically. In addition to the rationale you provided I find it to be administratively cumbersome. Its nice to not have to worry about distributing points in The Show.

Madden has it backwards. Atheletic traits and skills LEAD TO performance not the other way around. Guys bring skills into the NFL and perfect them in the offseason, in TC, and through experience - not by hitting specific milestones per game. Them hitting milestones just shows off what they can already do when at their best.

This is not realistic at all and makes no sense (!), in addition to annoyingly forcing you to try and play a certain way to get guys to their milestones which just makes no sense (e.g. you better get WR1 to 100 yards per game or so, or he starts regressing... that's just silly to force the ball a certain way or alter your run-pass mix to do this stuff).

[Vtownwaves]

Re: Any Advice Signing coaches and scouts?

I hear ya both, I understand the complaints. And thats fine, you're more than welcome to feel that way. I get that the madden system isnt as "sim" as this game. But at least in the madden system, I can take a nobody and make them a star. Plenty of good players go undrafted and then become studs. You cant really do that with this game unless they have the potential to do so already. Potential is a bull**** idea that limits players ability to develop.

That may be more realistic, but Im a bigger fan of the nba 2k system and the madden system than this one. Its TOO random, theres no way to definitively build your players the way you'd like them to grow. You have no clue how its going to work out. I should be able to develop stamina and velocity on pitches up to a certain age through training. I should be able to develop speed. A person who never did wind sprints often in their life, who starts to do them on a regular basis... guess what.... THEY ADD SPEED. How do you **** that up?

I like the ability to affect how well players develop through prioritizing them in my gameplan and directing how they evolve, especially in like mygm on 2k. You develop your gm well enough, you just sign monster sized 18 yo players that are even in the 50s overall, develop them 3 years and they dominate. Its fun! Also builds up the talent pool in the league by making something special out of nothing, CREATING DIFFICULTY...

Same thing can happen in madden where you get a wr who has the athletics but not the technique to dominate. By playing the games yourself, and reaching those milestones, you can now develop that guy. But simming or not focusing on him makes it harder. Sure he might not make it in real life, but he has the athleticism, should be able to focus on him to build up his skills...

Its all in what you want in a game. I dont want it to be a crap shoot. Im not gambling here, this is for fun. Im playing a video game and I want to know that if I put in the work in the bullpen, ALL THREE ****ING RATINGS ARE GONNA BE IMPROVED. Like thats just stupid. And sure, make an auto version so people who dont want to boost specific stats can have it progress more "realistically", but give me the rtts options in franchise. Make it so every single player in all the leagues get xp for their games, so that we can see how they're actually performing. Its not that hard. Its been done before for years...

[VonRye]

Re: Any Advice Signing coaches and scouts?

I should be able to develop speed. A person who never did wind sprints often in their life, who starts to do them on a regular basis... guess what.... THEY ADD SPEED. How do you **** that up?

NFL Hall of Famer Aeneas Williams significantly lowered his 40 time in college through training.

He was always searching for credible mentors. At Southern, teammate Brian Thomas, also from New Orleans, helped him improve his time in the 40-yard dash from 4.60 to 4.28. The following season, Williams had 11 interceptions, tying him for the national lead.

http://www.theadvocate.com/new_orlea...01dd7a9e9.html

[Sgexpat]

Re: Any Advice Signing coaches and scouts?

I hear ya both, I understand the complaints. And thats fine, you're more than welcome to feel that way. I get that the madden system isnt as "sim" as this game. But at least in the madden system, I can take a nobody and make them a star. Plenty of good players go undrafted and then become studs. You cant really do that with this game unless they have the potential to do so already. Potential is a bull**** idea that limits players ability to develop.

Of course, TEHO on the model. Regarding the idea of potential, given it can flex, I’m not sure its as rigid as you imply – have you done full seasons and had some key guys move up or down in potential?

That may be more realistic, but Im a bigger fan of the nba 2k system and the madden system than this one. Its TOO random, theres no way to definitively build your players the way you'd like them to grow. You have no clue how its going to work out. I should be able to develop stamina and velocity on pitches up to a certain age through training. I should be able to develop speed. A person who never did wind sprints often in their life, who starts to do them on a regular basis... guess what.... THEY ADD SPEED. How do you **** that up?

I think all the traits can still improve through your training selection AFAIK. I think the discussion about the traits that never go up (e.g. speed / stamina) pertains to if those aren’t trained. Perhaps other readers can chime in if I’m wrong. That said, yeah, its not great they missed those moving up and that really should’ve been patched.

[Lavar]

Re: Any Advice Signing coaches and scouts?

Question, when you guys schedule training how long do you schedule a players training in a particular field, 1 day , 1 week, 1 month ?

Thanks