Best grass and dirt fields in a video game?

[MythicalGnome]

Re: Best grass and dirt fields in a video game?

I no way was I trying to say that The Show has nothing to render lol. Far from it. There are always people on field, complex animations, lighting, and we suppose grass and stadiums.

That was not my point. My point was that things do no inherently just change all the time in Sports games, and yes this is easier to render than something that has to account for say 64 players in an online match with millions of stats to zip through and animations for all those 64 players.

The Show is NOT BF1, and nor will it ever bad that complex for the GPU and CPU.

I'm not debating that the Engine takes time to build. We know it does. And we know EA chose Frostbite for a reason. It's a nice engine.

But then again we've been talking about things like jerseys, grass, and models WAY too long on these forums.

What I will give you is this: I hope they have it for 18. Meaning after whatever they reveal, and we know there are going to be graphical shortfalls for some of us, I hope they can finally get that stuff into 18 with a whole year not even thinking about about the PS3.

[MythicalGnome]

Re: Best grass and dirt fields in a video game?

Also to clear things up, the PS4 uses no DDR3 RAM at all. It's 8GB of GDDR5 RAM. About 5 to 6 reserved for graphics at this point no one is really sure.

The PS4 Pro gets an extra 1GB of DDR3 RAM to go along with higher clocked 8GB GDDR5 RAM.

It's very clear to everyone that knows some of the inner workings of tech that too much of this engine is still based on PS3 core foundations. We know there are limits to what you can do. But I really hope 18 pushes the system. Certain elements on the field stick out too much for me. And I wish I didn't care. It's great that these things don't bother everybody. More power to you.

[Bullit]

Re: Best grass and dirt fields in a video game?

Honestly, with my time schedule 17 just got a pass

For someone who has stated several times that you are not getting this game and moving on. You sure are spending a lot of time trolling about it.

You have shared your various opinions and thoughts, continuously hating in every thread and aspect of the game is getting old.

[TheWarmWind]

Re: Best grass and dirt fields in a video game?

First I'd like to say that I realize this is just a fantasy thread, not a wishlist or an expectation thread. I am curious though if there is a way to improve dirt and grass in the show without killing the framerate.

Remember, the show has to render all of the crowd, and even with pairing animations and repeated audience members, the strain on system resources is immense. Adding the best possible grass and dirt just isn't feasible.

Tessellation is a great effect that is light on system strain, but I've only ever seen it used on slighter variance textures, like cobblestone streets. Also, in the end it's a texture, and creating the lighting effects that currently exist (PBR) could be difficult at best. Shadows and ambient occlusion are also big parts of making an object look "real", but both are also big system hogs. Maybe a set of pre-rendered textures, and the one that loads depends on time of day? Honestly I think whatever solution they are using now is better than that.

I'm also not a fan of the new engine solution. It might provide longer term solutions, but for a small studio with a 1 year development cycle, a new engine is going to be a disaster. As awful a hardware and software infrastructure the PS3 was, I trust SDS to know themselves when a good time to switch is, if ever.

Of course, I'm one of the few who's perfectly fine with the look of the grass, and I'm willing to take lower rez dirt in exchange for higher framerates. I just like talking about this stuff.

[LastActionHero]

Re: Best grass and dirt fields in a video game?

Like I said/showed earlier. I would be happy if the grass is just 3d rendered while pitching and batting and during close replays. When the ball is in play I understand it is too much too ask and a better colour/texture would suffice.

I do like this shot.



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[Artman22]

Re: Best grass and dirt fields in a video game?

Hopefully the pro version will have better textures in general. Mlb the show to me looked the best on PS3 as far as sports. On the PS4 the majority of the sports games look better than the show.


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[MythicalGnome]

Re: Best grass and dirt fields in a video game?

Honestly, with my time schedule 17 just got a pass

For someone who has stated several times that you are not getting this game and moving on. You sure are spending a lot of time trolling about it.

You have shared your various opinions and thoughts, continuously hating in every thread and aspect of the game is getting old.

For one this is not true at all. I didn't make this thread. And I don't bump it every second or hour of the day either. I hardly even post here. We've been trying to talk about what games have the best fields, and how MLB can be improved. I know it's hard for some people that like this franchise to deal with people talking about negative aspects of the game, but the fact is this needs to be talked about. These things are important to the overall future of the franchise for some people.

I love how mods here conveniently bypass the things that I do positively for this game and forum. You out of everyone seem hellbent on censoring everything negative about this game. I've seen you bump into threads repeatedly to censor them from open discourse that has neither gotten out of control or really any different than anywhere else when it comes to improving a game. Whatever, that is your right.

I have repeatedly offered in-depth information about the Minnesota Twins organization and stadium for these developers every year. I have continually praised other aspects of the game leading up to release. I've helped out with rosters before. I've supported the actual game over 4 times at full price, sometimes buying for friends.

It seems like whenever I make super positive posts everyone is fine. But whenever I make a negative post on this board all the sudden it's F You dude you are terrible, we'll ban you, we'll censor you, shut your mouth now. In effect, this is the approach of your last post.

Yes, this season might get a pass. But you took my quote out of context. I don't have time for everything anymore. Baseball is a huge time sink. With no major things FOR ME being upgraded I have to pass on the full 80 dollar buy-in for this period.

So yes I did expect more with fields. I was pretty disappointed again, but realize they might need more time to tune their engine after the PS3 cut. That's fine. You don't see me making threads saying the game sucks or I hate the devs. In fact, unless something interests me, or the devs post more information, I don't post all that much.

CHILL OUT.

[MythicalGnome]

Re: Best grass and dirt fields in a video game?

First I'd like to say that I realize this is just a fantasy thread, not a wishlist or an expectation thread. I am curious though if there is a way to improve dirt and grass in the show without killing the framerate.

Remember, the show has to render all of the crowd, and even with pairing animations and repeated audience members, the strain on system resources is immense. Adding the best possible grass and dirt just isn't feasible.

Tessellation is a great effect that is light on system strain, but I've only ever seen it used on slighter variance textures, like cobblestone streets. Also, in the end it's a texture, and creating the lighting effects that currently exist (PBR) could be difficult at best. Shadows and ambient occlusion are also big parts of making an object look "real", but both are also big system hogs. Maybe a set of pre-rendered textures, and the one that loads depends on time of day? Honestly I think whatever solution they are using now is better than that.

I'm also not a fan of the new engine solution. It might provide longer term solutions, but for a small studio with a 1 year development cycle, a new engine is going to be a disaster. As awful a hardware and software infrastructure the PS3 was, I trust SDS to know themselves when a good time to switch is, if ever.

Of course, I'm one of the few who's perfectly fine with the look of the grass, and I'm willing to take lower rez dirt in exchange for higher framerates. I just like talking about this stuff.

To me certain aspects of the engine seemed like they were coded for the PS3 pretty hard in some areas, making it more difficult to get change through and have it be up to their standard.

Yes, it is very possible to not hurt the framerate and get better fields, with better colors, textures, lighting, et cetera. But you will need artists and programmers ready to work together to get a realistic tone to all the stadiums, an accurate one at that, and you will have to be able to basically cut out the PS3 engine stuff and rewrite it.

The PS4 is a very capable machine. 60FPS is asking a lot from it. But the PS3 was the main problem IMO, in that its specs were just kind of terrible in the first place compared to where technology has gone.

Writing all your graphical systems for 512MB of RAM is not something anyone wants to do.

So if not anything major this year, I do expect by MLB 18 they will have figured out most of their engine problems. In reality, the biggest concerns, which include textures and coloring, those things could be done much easier than just a full 3D grass implementation. It is tricky finding good textures for grass. I would much prefer a 3D implementation that gets the coloring down right so it doesn't look so dead in certain stadiums.

[Caulfield]

Re: Best grass and dirt fields in a video game?

For one this is not true at all. I didn't make this thread. And I don't bump it every second or hour of the day either. I hardly even post here. We've been trying to talk about what games have the best fields, and how MLB can be improved. I know it's hard for some people that like this franchise to deal with people talking about negative aspects of the game, but the fact is this needs to be talked about. These things are important to the overall future of the franchise for some people.

I love how mods here conveniently bypass the things that I do positively for this game and forum. You out of everyone seem hellbent on censoring everything negative about this game. I've seen you bump into threads repeatedly to censor them from open discourse that has neither gotten out of control or really any different than anywhere else when it comes to improving a game. Whatever, that is your right.

I have repeatedly offered in-depth information about the Minnesota Twins organization and stadium for these developers every year. I have continually praised other aspects of the game leading up to release. I've helped out with rosters before. I've supported the actual game over 4 times at full price, sometimes buying for friends.

It seems like whenever I make super positive posts everyone is fine. But whenever I make a negative post on this board all the sudden it's F You dude you are terrible, we'll ban you, we'll censor you, shut your mouth now. In effect, this is the approach of your last post.

Yes, this season might get a pass. But you took my quote out of context. I don't have time for everything anymore. Baseball is a huge time sink. With no major things FOR ME being upgraded I have to pass on the full 80 dollar buy-in for this period.

So yes I did expect more with fields. I was pretty disappointed again, but realize they might need more time to tune their engine after the PS3 cut. That's fine. You don't see me making threads saying the game sucks or I hate the devs. In fact, unless something interests me, or the devs post more information, I don't post all that much.

CHILL OUT.

Nothing wrong with making omelettes, you just have to be sure to keep the shell out of the eggs when you break them. Inflammatory statements will generally elicit a response from someone, so if you post something negative, its reasonable to expect a mod to step in and keep things in control. If you dont want those mods to do so, take the negative comments and rephrase them into constructive criticism. Still, its all a matter of opinion either side one falls on the grass/dirt issue. For me personally, the grass and dirt could look like something out of PS1 but that's just not anywhere on my priorities to address. There is so much other that is right with the Show that this game is worth .22 cents a day to warrant a yearly purchase from my viewpoint. (.22 X 365 = $80plus)

[Bullit]

Re: Best grass and dirt fields in a video game?

Nothing wrong with making omelettes, you just have to be sure to keep the shell out of the eggs when you break them. Inflammatory statements will generally elicit a response from someone, so if you post something negative, its reasonable to expect a mod to step in and keep things in control. If you dont want those mods to do so, take the negative comments and rephrase them into constructive criticism. Still, its all a matter of opinion either side one falls on the grass/dirt issue. For me personally, the grass and dirt could look like something out of PS1 but that's just not anywhere on my priorities to address. There is so much other that is right with the Show that this game is worth .22 cents a day to warrant a yearly purchase from my viewpoint. (.22 X 365 = $80plus)

This was the exact point I was going to make.

MythicalGnome: I have no problem with negative comments about The Show. I do have a problem when the negative comments are insulting, attacking the Devs or other OS members.

It is not my job to censor OS. But it is my responsibility to keep things within the TOS. All mods do this by reading most if not all threads and posts that are made. I personally only really play The Show so I do focus most of my attention in here.

Yes you have contributed to OS and The Show forums. We don't point out your good posts, because that is the way you are supposed to act. You don't get rewarded for following the rules. But you do get the attention of Mods when you don't.

I did not take you post out of context, it shows your intent. You dont have the time so you are going to pass on the game this year. I apologize if you think I did or that this is something personal.

One last thought, telling a Mod to Chill out is not really the way to get treated the way you seem to want to be treated.

PS: Not for nothing. But most moderating is done because of reported posts that have either bothered somebody or violated TOS. Mods dont follow you around monitoring every post just to see if you are naughtry or nice.

Well except for P.A.D I follow him around just to get on his nerves. But that is just our thing and it works for us.

[Poke]

Re: Best grass and dirt fields in a video game?

Metal Gear Solid V

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[Bobhead]

Re: Best grass and dirt fields in a video game?

The Show has been and still is running on a core engine designed for a decade plus old hardware. It has nothing to do with anything related to grass and draw distance. The Show is not in any way doing more than something like Driveclub, or Dying Light, or GTA5, or Witcher 3, nor will it ever have to. There is no constant movement in The Show except for ballpark things. They have almost no draw distance to account for but what is in the stadium. There is almost no moving foliage in the entire game.

Yes, there is a lot that goes into ballparks and recreating them in 3D. But the PS4 is a very capable console. The problem is their engine is nowhere near ready to handle next-gen stuff. We even have a PS4 Pro now. There is no excuse for any of this.

We are literally talking about making the grass a proper color for each stadium. This has nothing to do with performance issues. It has to do with the team not caring about being a sim anymore. 2K did grass better than The Show on PS3 lol.

Better textures on the grass should be leading to absolutely no performance issues either. We are not even talking about having 3d grass right now. A modder could have had better textures and grass coloring on each stadium in 3 months! I can guarantee you that. Yet it takes 8 years for anything to happen with an 80 man team?

The grass in this game is beyond pathetic. It's terrible. It's been terrible for years upon years. And yet no one steps up to do anything with it. There really is no excuse for this IMO. But priorities. Apparently, The Show devs think their grass accurately recreates the in a ballpark feel you have when you go to a stadium.

About all it recreates for me is playing on a console in 2002. I honestly cannot even believe we are talking about something that looks so bad in 2017. Every other sports game with grass looks better than The Show at this point.

I think suggesting the devs don't care is way over the line (and also false, as evidenced by all the extra things they do, like post here). Everything else, though harsh, is fair, and I pretty much agree.

Personally, I couldn't care less about grass or dirt. The visual quality of these things doesn't actually affect what happens in a game, so it could be pink or transparent for all I care.

That being said, it is inexcusable that we are still having these conversations after like 8 years, including multiple years on a very powerful console with a ton of untapped potential.

You can't tell me the grass in a baseball field is somehow more daunting or less doable than one of the many city-based games you and others have named. A single outfield of grass is nowhere near the complexity of rendering the entire universe of grass, trees, and foliage that exists at Central Park, for example.

There's no real reason it can't be done. I'm pretty shocked this remains an issue.

[MythicalGnome]

Re: Best grass and dirt fields in a video game?

In reality I do blame the PS3 renderer. I guess I set myself up for disappointment thinking because they had a year without it even in action fully that things would get better. We'll see on the reveal. I happen to think, and it's not like I want this to be the truth, that grass and dirt are pretty important to the overall immersion of being a ballplayer. And when I play on the field I would like it to be pretty close to real.

Right now we still playin' on what looks to me like a mat textured and shaded in 8 years ago. That is my only real beef with it all.

I can wait until 18. But I would like the issue to receive some major attention because I think the flagship MLB game is in danger of not becoming as relevant as it could be because of these weak reveals. I know everyone has their opinions, but graphics will definitely turn on some casuals.

It's good they are putting in some great foundation work. One of these releases I hope goes to the graphics core in a huge way. I mean, 18 would be the second year with a PS4 Pro and no PS3 architecture. There aren't too many excuses that could be thrown around if nothing is done by then. IMO at least.

[Blzer]

Re: Best grass and dirt fields in a video game?

I'm sure people have noticed that MLB.com uses The Show's player and stadium models for the Gamecast feature (or whatever it's called), but they change the dirt and grass to a static image.

Here is an example:





Now I'm not saying: "Hey, these guys can do it so why can't the developers?" That is a stupid question that automatically requires berating the individual who asks it haha. However, I always did find it interesting that it's the one thing that the site artists made themselves consciously aware of altering from the visuals that were lent over for them.

I don't know the inner-workings behind the deal whatsoever, but at the very least you are looking at a "prettier" set of dirt and grass textures in a shot like the one above, and hope someday that it can be achieved in the game itself whilst maintaining a smooth framerate.

Will this be the year? Who knows. There are still several graphical upgrades/changes/features that are still left unmentioned.

[MythicalGnome]

Re: Best grass and dirt fields in a video game?

I'm sure people have noticed that MLB.com uses The Show's player and stadium models for the Gamecast feature (or whatever it's called), but they change the dirt and grass to a static image.

Here is an example:





Now I'm not saying: "Hey, these guys can do it so why can't the developers?" That is a stupid question that automatically requires berating the individual who asks it haha. However, I always did find it interesting that it's the one thing that the site artists made themselves consciously aware of altering from the visuals that were lent over for them.

I don't know the inner-workings behind the deal whatsoever, but at the very least you are looking at a "prettier" set of dirt and grass textures in a shot like the one above, and hope someday that it can be achieved in the game itself whilst maintaining a smooth framerate.

Will this be the year? Who knows. There are still several graphical upgrades/changes/features that are still left unmentioned.

That is a really nice example of the problem with the game. And we all know that the old PS3 renderer is much to blame. But it will be year 4 or 5 of PS4 when something happens? I really hope there are some good ideas on how to make things happen by 18.

To me even a high def texture overall would fit the bill decently. Just color the grass more in line with realism and the game would be that much better. As for 3D grass well the PS4 is certainly capable of it. The Pro more so.