Situational Hitting w/ Zone Hitting

[JayhawkerStL]

Re: Situational Hitting w/ Zone Hitting

I don't think skill is being taken out of the equation. You are still identifying the pitch and location, deciding if and when to swing, and whether to adjust for the location or to push it regardless.

PCI seems to offer both extra control that a batter doesn't actually have and an extra layer of difficulty, in my opinion.

Mostly, I think folks should use a system that fits their needs. There isn't a right or wrong way. And the fair, batting with a video game controller is never going to be realistic.

I'm always dubious of a video game mechanic being considered more or less sim. Sim is nothing more than a paint by numbers approach. We just adjust sliders until we get the results we want, regardless of game mechanic and skill level.


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[El_MaYiMbE]

Re: Situational Hitting w/ Zone Hitting

I don't think skill is being taken out of the equation. You are still identifying the pitch and location, deciding if and when to swing, and whether to adjust for the location or to push it regardless.

PCI seems to offer both extra control that a batter doesn't actually have and an extra layer of difficulty, in my opinion.

Mostly, I think folks should use a system that fits their needs. There isn't a right or wrong way. And the fair, batting with a video game controller is never going to be realistic.

I'm always dubious of a video game mechanic being considered more or less sim. Sim is nothing more than a paint by numbers approach. We just adjust sliders until we get the results we want, regardless of game mechanic and skill level.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Agree, but I have always had issues with hitting in this game. I feel like zone is too complex and not enough control over what matters (hit direction influence) and too much control over something that is instinct (bat placement).

So the purpose of this question was to see if those using zone hitting were on to something that I wasn't on to switching to Directional Hitting, but there is a case to be made for both, and they are both flawed in their own way.

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[killaxxbearsxxx]

Re: Situational Hitting w/ Zone Hitting

See....I feel like it's counter-intuative because directional hitting is actually both timing and directional.

So if you hide PCI and rely on timing to pull/push ball you are actually using directional (and timing hitting) but with zone hitting enabled.

Now, taken at face value it works because if there is an inside pitch that you are early on (you will pull it) or an outside pitch you are late on (you will hit other way) and that's okay. However the issue is when you want to put ball on ground or in air.

How can you get under a ball enough to lift it or on top a ball enough to ground it? The ball is moving too fast and you don't know it's final location.

In real life at the plate you don't aim your bat under the ball to lift it in the air. I mean literally you do, but there is no true aiming, your hand-eye coordination and swing type allow you to get under ball, this happens almost instinctively.

I feel with directional hitting....by pulling the direction you want the ball to go you are telling the batter what type of swing you want to put on ball, and let his "hand-eye coordination", contact rating, power, etc....Determine how successful the attempt is.

Now despite me thinking that's the best method and more "realistic" more often than not the results aren't there, but I still feel like I tried. With directional I feel I can only control where the bat goes and not where the ball goes.

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Hold on. You may force me back to directional hitting

Question 1:
Does zone hitting not take timing into consideration? I always thought it was timing + control over barrel placement

Question 2:
Does the direction in directional hitting control where you want to hit the ball? Or where you place your bat? For example can I inside out a ball by pulling the left stick to the left (right handed hitter)?

I think we're looking for the same amount of control (more or less) at the plate, I just thought zone hitting was the best way to get there.

Really I want a hitting mechanic that allows me to manipulate my timing and barrel placement, that way I can put different types of swings on the ball. I don't want to hold the stick left to try to hit the ball to the left side, I want to hold the stick left to simulate pulling my hands inside the ball, that way timing can be used to manipulate the result (left stick pull, early timing =pull, left stick pick, late timing =inside out)

Does this exist? And this the same thing you are asking for?

[killaxxbearsxxx]

Re: Situational Hitting w/ Zone Hitting

I don't think skill is being taken out of the equation. You are still identifying the pitch and location, deciding if and when to swing, and whether to adjust for the location or to push it regardless.

PCI seems to offer both extra control that a batter doesn't actually have and an extra layer of difficulty, in my opinion.

Mostly, I think folks should use a system that fits their needs. There isn't a right or wrong way. And the fair, batting with a video game controller is never going to be realistic.

I'm always dubious of a video game mechanic being considered more or less sim. Sim is nothing more than a paint by numbers approach. We just adjust sliders until we get the results we want, regardless of game mechanic and skill level.


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Noted. I'll find a word other than sim.

And of course It'll never be realistic, I don't want realistic because in that sense. then I'd have to fix the same mechanics that cut my career short just to play a video game. That wouldn't be fun at all. I'm just searching for something that's intuitive ya know? So I can use the same brain that went up to the plate in real life.

[El_MaYiMbE]

Re: Situational Hitting w/ Zone Hitting

Hold on. You may force me back to directional hitting

Question 1:
Does zone hitting not take timing into consideration? I always thought it was timing + control over barrel placement

Question 2:
Does the direction in directional hitting control where you want to hit the ball? Or where you place your bat? For example can I inside out a ball by pulling the left stick to the left (right handed hitter)?

I think we're looking for the same amount of control (more or less) at the plate, I just thought zone hitting was the best way to get there.

Really I want a hitting mechanic that allows me to manipulate my timing and barrel placement, that way I can put different types of swings on the ball. I don't want to hold the stick left to try to hit the ball to the left side, I want to hold the stick left to simulate pulling my hands inside the ball, that way timing can be used to manipulate the result (left stick pull, early timing =pull, left stick pick, late timing =inside out)

Does this exist? And this the same thing you are asking for?

We are kinda asking same thing....Seamless control of the hit result.

To answer your two main questions.

1. Zone does take timing to account 100%, it is as you describe.

2. Kinda, the right part of your PCI would need to be "behind" the ball kinda like this ( )O...Imagine parentheses is PCI and O is ball. So while it's possible that is waaaaay too complicated in my opinion to read the pitch, determine you wanna swing, determine you wanna inside/out the pitch AND place PCI in optimal location. All if this and you still cannot choose if you want the ball in the air or on ground!

I played baseball thru high school and into college, hitting is hard but NOT because of the things I mentioned above.

All of that takes longer to process than it does to actually happen both in real life and in the game. In MLB The Show you almost need to know location and pitch type in advance to get ALL of those right. While in real life all those things are reactions and not literal, conscious thoughts.

Meanwhile with directional you would push AWAY left stick with right handed hitter to indicate you want to hit the ball opposite field in conjunction with timing it accurately. If you push away and down (or up) you can also now influence ground (or air). Keyword here is influence, as it doesn't mean it will guarantee it.

When you come to plate you know where you want to hit the ball, so picking a location where you want to try and hit the ball is more realistic to me. You still need to wait for right pitch in right location, but it's more in line with what actually happens when you are at the dish.

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[JayhawkerStL]

Re: Situational Hitting w/ Zone Hitting

Yep, if you need to go the other way with the ball, you lay off the inside fastball for a strike, because you are waiting for a pitch away. This relates to why it is easier to hit with a 3-1 or 2-0 count. It's not necessarily because the pitcher is forced to groove a pitch, but because you have the advantage of looking for exactly what you want, knowing that if you take a strike, you are still not behind in the count.

[killaxxbearsxxx]

Re: Situational Hitting w/ Zone Hitting

We are kinda asking same thing....Seamless control of the hit result.

To answer your two main questions.

1. Zone does take timing to account 100%, it is as you describe.

2. Kinda, the right part of your PCI would need to be "behind" the ball kinda like this ( )O...Imagine parentheses is PCI and O is ball. So while it's possible that is waaaaay too complicated in my opinion to read the pitch, determine you wanna swing, determine you wanna inside/out the pitch AND place PCI in optimal location. All if this and you still cannot choose if you want the ball in the air or on ground!

I played baseball thru high school and into college, hitting is hard but NOT because of the things I mentioned above.

All of that takes longer to process than it does to actually happen both in real life and in the game. In MLB The Show you almost need to know location and pitch type in advance to get ALL of those right. While in real life all those things are reactions and not literal, conscious thoughts.

Meanwhile with directional you would push AWAY left stick with right handed hitter to indicate you want to hit the ball opposite field in conjunction with timing it accurately. If you push away and down (or up) you can also now influence ground (or air). Keyword here is influence, as it doesn't mean it will guarantee it.

When you come to plate you know where you want to hit the ball, so picking a location where you want to try and hit the ball is more realistic to me. You still need to wait for right pitch in right location, but it's more in line with what actually happens when you are at the dish.

Sent from my Pixel using Operation Sports mobile app

Okay I get it. See with me in real life my thought process isn't I've got to to try and hit the ball that way but more I've got to get the bat on the inside of ball to hit the ball that way, as I said earlier.

My problem with directional hitting is my desire to control where my bat is. If i see a pitch on the outside corner I want to push the left stick right and use later timing. If I see the pitch on the inside corner I want to put the stick left and use later timing.

This is why I stick to zone hitting, and to influence putting it on the ground I put the bat a level above where I think the ball is going to be. So say its a ball outside and at the knees. I won't go down with the stick all the way, I'll just go straight right and keep it thigh level (or so). It seems to work for me but I've only recently switched to zone so I couldn't tell you with absolute certainty that this works

[underdog13]

Re: Situational Hitting w/ Zone Hitting

Hold on. You may force me back to directional hitting

Question 1:
Does zone hitting not take timing into consideration? I always thought it was timing + control over barrel placement

Question 2:
Does the direction in directional hitting control where you want to hit the ball? Or where you place your bat? For example can I inside out a ball by pulling the left stick to the left (right handed hitter)?

I think we're looking for the same amount of control (more or less) at the plate, I just thought zone hitting was the best way to get there.

Really I want a hitting mechanic that allows me to manipulate my timing and barrel placement, that way I can put different types of swings on the ball. I don't want to hold the stick left to try to hit the ball to the left side, I want to hold the stick left to simulate pulling my hands inside the ball, that way timing can be used to manipulate the result (left stick pull, early timing =pull, left stick pick, late timing =inside out)

Does this exist? And this the same thing you are asking for?

Zone hitting does take timing into account

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[p00p1]

Re: Situational Hitting w/ Zone Hitting

I've been holding out hope they'll eventually include an MVP style interface. Like directional, but you use the analog stick to aim towards the pitch location and the result is based on your accuracy and timing.

[killaxxbearsxxx]

Re: Situational Hitting w/ Zone Hitting

Yep, if you need to go the other way with the ball, you lay off the inside fastball for a strike, because you are waiting for a pitch away. This relates to why it is easier to hit with a 3-1 or 2-0 count. It's not necessarily because the pitcher is forced to groove a pitch, but because you have the advantage of looking for exactly what you want, knowing that if you take a strike, you are still not behind in the count.

Yeah I understand this, but I've never played anybody who's thrown anything hittable outside (on purpose) in these situations so I made the adjustment of looking for fastball in or out and putting it on the right side of the field

[El_MaYiMbE]

Re: Situational Hitting w/ Zone Hitting

Okay I get it. See with me in real life my thought process isn't I've got to to try and hit the ball that way but more I've got to get the bat on the inside of ball to hit the ball that way, as I said earlier.

My problem with directional hitting is my desire to control where my bat is. If i see a pitch on the outside corner I want to push the left stick right and use later timing. If I see the pitch on the inside corner I want to put the stick left and use later timing.

This is why I stick to zone hitting, and to influence putting it on the ground I put the bat a level above where I think the ball is going to be. So say its a ball outside and at the knees. I won't go down with the stick all the way, I'll just go straight right and keep it thigh level (or so). It seems to work for me but I've only recently switched to zone so I couldn't tell you with absolute certainty that this works

That's too complex when compared to real life hitting. As I said real life hitting is harder than that but for completely different reasons.

So while it takes more skill to hit with zone hitting, it's for the wrong reasons in my opinion.

But we are spinning in circles. I get why some like zone and I am not 100% sure it's not the better option, I might have to get out of my own way of thinking.

But what I do know is that hitting feels like it's missing something and idk what the remedy is.

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[killaxxbearsxxx]

Re: Situational Hitting w/ Zone Hitting

I've been holding out hope they'll eventually include an MVP style interface. Like directional, but you use the analog stick to aim towards the pitch location and the result is based on your accuracy and timing.

Like a zone/directional hybrid? That would literally be perfect for me

R.I.P MVP

[killaxxbearsxxx]

Re: Situational Hitting w/ Zone Hitting

That's too complex when compared to real life hitting. As I said real life hitting is harder than that but for completely different reasons.

So while it takes more skill to hit with zone hitting, it's for the wrong reasons in my opinion.

But we are spinning in circles. I get why some like zone and I am not 100% sure it's not the better option, I might have to get out of my own way of thinking.

But what I do know is that hitting feels like it's missing something and idk what the remedy is.

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Maybe we just have two different approaches to our at bats because what I'm explaining is my literal real life hitting approach..this complex thing is what I did in real life.

Wouldn't be the first time people had different approaches to hitting though. I just think we're all chasing what feels intuitive to us and what that entails is different for everyone

[El_MaYiMbE]

Re: Situational Hitting w/ Zone Hitting

I've been holding out hope they'll eventually include an MVP style interface. Like directional, but you use the analog stick to aim towards the pitch location and the result is based on your accuracy and timing.

MVP used directional hitting as implemented in MLB The Show....They are exactly the same.

In the The Show you should pull in for inside pitches and push out on outside pitches, push up for fly balls, down for ground balls, and any combo of all of the above, just like in MVP. That is not video game logic, that is baseball fundamentals....Go with the pitch.

MVP hitting system = MLB The Show directional hitting. Results may vary but their usage is the same.

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[killaxxbearsxxx]

Re: Situational Hitting w/ Zone Hitting

MVP used directional hitting as implemented in MLB The Show....They are exactly the same.

In the The Show you should pull in for inside pitches and push out on outside pitches, push up for fly balls, down for ground balls, and any combo of all of the above, just like in MVP. That is not video game logic, that is baseball fundamentals....Go with the pitch.

MVP hitting system = MLB The Show directional hitting. Results may vary but their usage is the same.

Sent from my Pixel using Operation Sports mobile app

See now I'm confused so I think im going to go lab with directional hitting and see if I can manipulate the timing and get the experience I want