Sim Engine Discussion - Defensive Statistics

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  • JTommy67
    Pro
    • Jul 2012
    • 598

    #1

    Sim Engine Discussion - Defensive Statistics

    I wanted to share some thoughts about the sim engine and defensive statistics. I set a team's ratings to average values for fielding ability and arm accuracy to look at fielding percentages in the sim engine. I simmed ten seasons and recorded fielding stats.

    While I am sure that many of you are aware that fielding percentages are too high, I wanted to point out the following:

    I averaged the number of errors (in one season) for each position and compared to MLB statistics for 2015. Here is the breakdown:

    POS......... 2015......... SIM
    P............. 13.0.......... 7.5
    C............. 9.4........... 5.9
    1B........... 9.0........... 13.5
    2B........... 13.0......... 16.8
    3B........... 18.5.......... 9.3
    SS........... 17.0......... 12.4
    LF............ 5.2........... 4.6
    CF............ 4.5........... 5.1
    RF............ 5.0........... 9.3

    Aside from pitchers, the one that stands out the most is 3B. In real life, there are nearly twice as many errors as what we see in this game. All in all, you can see the distribution is significantly off.

    I bring this up in part because many have noticed that ERAs and run production are too low. The discrepancy in errors is large enough I think to consider it as a contributing factor.

    You might think that more errors would lead to more runs but not higher ERAs, but consider that more errors means longer innings, more plate appearances, higher pitch counts and downward pressure on starter innings. I first noticed this when I was playing around with fielding ratings on a 1941 test roster. When I tried to get fielding percentages down a bit I noticed higher ERA's and a massive increase in run production - and I never got the fielding percentages down far enough to reach actual 1941 levels.

    So I think there's something off here that may explain a number of deviations in the sim engine. My hope is that devs will look into this...maybe an easy fix, or it's equally possible that fixing this might cause a leak somewhere else in the boat.

    On a related note, it's possible to see how errors generated are affected by manipulating the fielding and arm accuracy ratings. Setting one to 99 and the other to zero will give you an idea how fielding and throwing errors are generated. Doing this for catchers I found that setting arm accuracy to 0 and fielding to 99 generated on average about 21 errors. Setting the opposite yielded only 6 errors, however.

    In real life, about 75% of all catcher errors are throwing errors, so the above figures would seem to indicate that this is backwards in the sim engine. If you have a catcher that is, say, 65 and 65 then he's generated way too many fielding errors (which are quite rare for catchers...just think about it) and way too few throwing errors.

    I didn't do this for the other positions but perhaps that may explain the above chart.

    Anyway, just some thoughts. I humbly request the devs to take a look if they haven't already.
    Last edited by JTommy67; 03-09-2017, 08:17 PM. Reason: formatting
  • squashbuggie
    Banned
    • Dec 2016
    • 371

    #2
    Re: Sim Engine Discussion - Defensive Statistics

    Originally posted by JTommy67
    I wanted to share some thoughts about the sim engine and defensive statistics. I set a team's ratings to average values for fielding ability and arm accuracy to look at fielding percentages in the sim engine. I simmed ten seasons and recorded fielding stats.

    While I am sure that many of you are aware that fielding percentages are too high, I wanted to point out the following:

    I averaged the number of errors (in one season) for each position and compared to MLB statistics for 2015. Here is the breakdown:

    POS......... 2015......... SIM
    P............. 13.0.......... 7.5
    C............. 9.4........... 5.9
    1B........... 9.0........... 13.5
    2B........... 13.0......... 16.8
    3B........... 18.5.......... 9.3
    SS........... 17.0......... 12.4
    LF............ 5.2........... 4.6
    CF............ 4.5........... 5.1
    RF............ 5.0........... 9.3

    Aside from pitchers, the one that stands out the most is 3B. In real life, there are nearly twice as many errors as what we see in this game. All in all, you can see the distribution is significantly off.

    I bring this up in part because many have noticed that ERAs and run production are too low. The discrepancy in errors is large enough I think to consider it as a contributing factor.

    You might think that more errors would lead to more runs but not higher ERAs, but consider that more errors means longer innings, more plate appearances, higher pitch counts and downward pressure on starter innings. I first noticed this when I was playing around with fielding ratings on a 1941 test roster. When I tried to get fielding percentages down a bit I noticed higher ERA's and a massive increase in run production - and I never got the fielding percentages down far enough to reach actual 1941 levels.

    So I think there's something off here that may explain a number of deviations in the sim engine. My hope is that devs will look into this...maybe an easy fix, or it's equally possible that fixing this might cause a leak somewhere else in the boat.

    On a related note, it's possible to see how errors generated are affected by manipulating the fielding and arm accuracy ratings. Setting one to 99 and the other to zero will give you an idea how fielding and throwing errors are generated. Doing this for catchers I found that setting arm accuracy to 0 and fielding to 99 generated on average about 21 errors. Setting the opposite yielded only 6 errors, however.

    In real life, about 75% of all catcher errors are throwing errors, so the above figures would seem to indicate that this is backwards in the sim engine. If you have a catcher that is, say, 65 and 65 then he's generated way too many fielding errors (which are quite rare for catchers...just think about it) and way too few throwing errors.

    I didn't do this for the other positions but perhaps that may explain the above chart.

    Anyway, just some thoughts. I humbly request the devs to take a look if they haven't already.
    good stuff. I think "80" should be the top rating given to fielding ability/arm accuracy. reaction and arm strength can be higher, pr layer. It seems like each "one point" in fa and aa equals 0.12 more errors, at least for infielders. I think 50 should be average for fa and aa. and great work on ur 75 roster, btw.

    God Bless

    Comment

    • Mike Lowe
      All Star
      • Dec 2006
      • 5287

      #3
      Re: Sim Engine Discussion - Defensive Statistics

      Great info, OP. There is a group of guys here who could contribute a great deal to their QA process, if only they'd seek out the help.

      There are folks upset they spend too much time on gimmicky stuff, but it truly is a necessary evil for a gaming company.

      So with that understanding, let some folks step up and help out in other areas such as THOROUGH and EARLY statistics QA.

      There are many reoccurring issues in this series (online franchise thread?), and our community could definitely help them satisfy both their stakeholders and casual fans, but also their hardcore base.

      Comment

      • HustlinOwl
        All Star
        • Mar 2004
        • 9713

        #4
        Re: Sim Engine Discussion - Defensive Statistics

        Originally posted by JTommy67
        I wanted to share some thoughts about the sim engine and defensive statistics. I set a team's ratings to average values for fielding ability and arm accuracy to look at fielding percentages in the sim engine. I simmed ten seasons and recorded fielding stats.

        While I am sure that many of you are aware that fielding percentages are too high, I wanted to point out the following:

        I averaged the number of errors (in one season) for each position and compared to MLB statistics for 2015. Here is the breakdown:

        POS......... 2015......... SIM
        P............. 13.0.......... 7.5
        C............. 9.4........... 5.9
        1B........... 9.0........... 13.5
        2B........... 13.0......... 16.8
        3B........... 18.5.......... 9.3
        SS........... 17.0......... 12.4
        LF............ 5.2........... 4.6
        CF............ 4.5........... 5.1
        RF............ 5.0........... 9.3

        Aside from pitchers, the one that stands out the most is 3B. In real life, there are nearly twice as many errors as what we see in this game. All in all, you can see the distribution is significantly off.

        I bring this up in part because many have noticed that ERAs and run production are too low. The discrepancy in errors is large enough I think to consider it as a contributing factor.

        You might think that more errors would lead to more runs but not higher ERAs, but consider that more errors means longer innings, more plate appearances, higher pitch counts and downward pressure on starter innings. I first noticed this when I was playing around with fielding ratings on a 1941 test roster. When I tried to get fielding percentages down a bit I noticed higher ERA's and a massive increase in run production - and I never got the fielding percentages down far enough to reach actual 1941 levels.

        So I think there's something off here that may explain a number of deviations in the sim engine. My hope is that devs will look into this...maybe an easy fix, or it's equally possible that fixing this might cause a leak somewhere else in the boat.

        On a related note, it's possible to see how errors generated are affected by manipulating the fielding and arm accuracy ratings. Setting one to 99 and the other to zero will give you an idea how fielding and throwing errors are generated. Doing this for catchers I found that setting arm accuracy to 0 and fielding to 99 generated on average about 21 errors. Setting the opposite yielded only 6 errors, however.

        In real life, about 75% of all catcher errors are throwing errors, so the above figures would seem to indicate that this is backwards in the sim engine. If you have a catcher that is, say, 65 and 65 then he's generated way too many fielding errors (which are quite rare for catchers...just think about it) and way too few throwing errors.

        I didn't do this for the other positions but perhaps that may explain the above chart.

        Anyway, just some thoughts. I humbly request the devs to take a look if they haven't already.
        excellent, did you adjust the sliders for fielding and throwing errors?

        Comment

        • JTommy67
          Pro
          • Jul 2012
          • 598

          #5
          Re: Sim Engine Discussion - Defensive Statistics

          HustlinOwl:

          I've never found the fielding sliders to affect anything in the sim engine. I remember moving the sliders to zero and not noticing any change. I believe the only ones that do affect simming are the pitcher stamina sliders.

          EDIT: And one more thing I forgot to mention. You'll see that errors for right fielders are much higher. One reason seems to be that right fielders get more put outs than center and left fielders, which is also incorrect. In real life, center fielders get more put outs that the corner outfielders.
          Last edited by JTommy67; 03-10-2017, 06:35 PM.

          Comment

          • Mike Lowe
            All Star
            • Dec 2006
            • 5287

            #6
            Re: Sim Engine Discussion - Defensive Statistics

            Originally posted by JTommy67
            HustlinOwl:

            I've never found the fielding sliders to affect anything in the sim engine. I remember moving the sliders to zero and not noticing any change. I believe the only ones that do affect simming are the pitcher stamina sliders.
            And the injury slider and manager hook.

            Comment

            • JTommy67
              Pro
              • Jul 2012
              • 598

              #7
              Re: Sim Engine Discussion - Defensive Statistics

              Originally posted by Mike Lowe
              And the injury slider and manager hook.
              Right, I forgot those.

              Comment

              • Jaysguy44
                Banned
                • Mar 2017
                • 209

                #8
                Re: Sim Engine Discussion - Defensive Statistics

                Hire this man!

                Comment

                • Moss44
                  Rookie
                  • Mar 2014
                  • 304

                  #9
                  Re: Sim Engine Discussion - Defensive Statistics

                  Wow interesting sim. It's unfortunate that we don't have specific fielding error and throwing error sliders for each position but that might seem excessive by some people. Oh well
                  PSN: Moss394463

                  Comment

                  • WhiteBunny
                    Rookie
                    • Oct 2014
                    • 332

                    #10
                    Re: Sim Engine Discussion - Defensive Statistics

                    It would be interesting to give another shot to the error-stats with The Show 17: with the new player awareness, especially for the infielders, maybe we'll get even less errors ( ? )

                    Comment

                    • JaFFiTh
                      MVP
                      • Mar 2008
                      • 1685

                      #11
                      Re: Sim Engine Discussion - Defensive Statistics

                      Yeah my players in my rosters are actually rated much lower and I'm seeing much more errors. The teams I haven't done are very low but ones I've done are basically on par with real life.

                      All I did was using the Fan Scouting from Fangraphs. With exception of making sure none of players have below 30 fielding as it affects the reaction in game. Anything under 30 in fielding the players stops before they make a throw. (Would have thought that'd be under reaction attribute)

                      Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk

                      Comment

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