Found NEW BUNT Cheese! Smh. NEEDs TO BE PATCHED

[mikeq672]

Re: Found NEW BUNT Cheese! Smh. NEEDs TO BE PATCHED

You're missing the point. I could never make it in the majors. But I guarantee I can lay down a bunt against any pitcher at any level at a respectable rate. So why shouldn't a major league hitter, who has spent tens of thousands of hours with a bat in his hands, be able to lay down a bunt in a deserted half of an infield once in a while? What's more, they don't have to place it well either. The harder the better, which is really what the bunt rating should be about.

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No you couldnt. This is why bunting is at historically low rates across the league, its a lot harder than you think and becoming less and less worth it.

[Trackball]

Re: Found NEW BUNT Cheese! Smh. NEEDs TO BE PATCHED

I was able to get on base with Chase headley (Only Chase Headley) more often than not because the computer does an extreme infield shift to the right on him.

Because that's how you beat the shift.

By the way, the opponent was bunting a lot?

Why weren't you bringing the infield in? Or shifting to Bunt Defense?

[Greencollarbaseball]

Re: Found NEW BUNT Cheese! Smh. NEEDs TO BE PATCHED

No you couldnt. This is why bunting is at historically low rates across the league, its a lot harder than you think and becoming less and less worth it.

The only reason it is low is because of analytics, not because it's too hard.


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[MLB14]

Re: Found NEW BUNT Cheese! Smh. NEEDs TO BE PATCHED

The only reason it is low is because of analytics, not because it's too hard.


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I'd like to watch you try to lay down a decent bunt in the major leagues. I'd say it takes more finesse than hitting does.

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[CujoMatty]

Re: Found NEW BUNT Cheese! Smh. NEEDs TO BE PATCHED

So i decided to play 3 back to back games to see If i can win just by bunting. All I did was bunt with every batter. The answer to that question is no but I have figured out that when the fielding shift is set to extreme right (which is always set against Headley by the cpu) and you get a successful bunt with a guy like Chase Headley against the computer you will be safe to first every single time.

The fact that i can successfully lay a bunt down every time with a guy like Chase Headley who has a Bunt & Drag Bunt rating of 25 is ridiculous. This shows that they didnt test bunting enough. There is no reason why i should be able to go 3 for 4 with Chase Headley just by bunting because the computer is not smart enough to shift back to a normal defense.

Also i noticed that i was able to lay down a bunt successfully wayyyyyy toooo often with guys rated in the 20's in bunting. What I mean by successful bunt is the fact that you can put the ball in to play so often with guys rated so low in bunting. There should be more foul balls occurring by guys who have low bunt ratings and more foul balls for bunting in general.

I cant believe they didnt try and bunt with every player for 3 games to see what would happen before they released the game. The nerve of these guys lol.

This seems like such an over zealous attempt at finding something wrong with a game. This isnt even near as bad as money plays in Madden, money goals in NHL because at least against a human opponent its almost a complete non issue. Dont play the shift. I totally understand that bunting isnt balanced that well and should be looked into but you decided to do an experiment with horrible parameters to discover a flaw that can be solved by simple self control. The only opponent this works on is the CPU. Dont do it.
There are plenty of issues with this game that need to be fixed before this.

[nomo17k]

Re: Found NEW BUNT Cheese! Smh. NEEDs TO BE PATCHED

I don't like the wining tone of the original post, but I actually think the point about how the game AI is not intelligent enough to adapt to somewhat obvious strategy HUM players would made should be well taken.

I personally consider non-adaptive AI (i.e., CPU not adjusting its strategy by how HUM plays against it) is one of the areas where computer sports game is holding itself back... if there is a way we can consistently beat CPU and CPU does not try to avoid getting beaten, then it likely is legitimately an exploit...

There are things we can avoid by "house rules," but depending on the kind of issue, it can take away immersion when the situation happens in inopportune times.

For example, a couple years ago, bunting was too successful in the game... so I created an RTTS player and decided to only bunt for hit... I don't remember the exact numbers but I think I ended up creating better than .400 hitter out of it. I didn't try to increase (Drug) Bunt attribute, but he was a moderately high Power so that CPU doesn't try to but bunt shift on me... so it was very successful. Of course despite the Power attribute, he really was a slap hitter so by looking at offensive stats, a smarter AI would consider him a small-ball batter... but AI relies too much on (superfluous) Power attribute and not performance, so it keeps employing wrong strategy of not putting bunt shift on.

Last year, middle infielders had some slow animation issues so I was able to generate a lot of infield hits, enough to make him hit close to .400, even by very crappy-rated hitter:



In real-file you'd expect your opponent to at least try to remedy the situation by playing infield shallower or something but CPU is not smart enough to do such a thing.

I think there are decent AI in the Show already (I think pitching AI is decent), but there are other places where there are a lot of room for improvements. Shift AI is one that can be smarter and more dynamic I think.

I think smarter, adaptive AI would be something that pushes the frontier of sports gaming in coming years. I hope the Show would be that game.

[Greencollarbaseball]

Found NEW BUNT Cheese! Smh. NEEDs TO BE PATCHED

I'd like to watch you try to lay down a decent bunt in the major leagues. I'd say it takes more finesse than hitting does.

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Having not faced 90+ in 15 years it would take me awhile, but I would eventually be able to lay some bunts down. That being said, my bunting ability and that of a Major League hitter, even one that doesn't but very often, are light years apart.

But like I said, analytics are why bunting is down. Not difficulty. http://www.thescore.com/mlb/news/1263275


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[nomo17k]

Re: Found NEW BUNT Cheese! Smh. NEEDs TO BE PATCHED

Having not faced 90+ in 15 years it would take me awhile, but I would eventually be able to lay some bunts down. That being said, my bunting ability and that of a Major League hitter, even one that doesn't but very often, are light years apart.

But like I said, analytics are why bunting is down. Not difficulty. http://www.thescore.com/mlb/news/1263275

I think it's more like sports analytics have shown that bunting is neither as successful nor easy as people used to think... Like a lot of people have associated bunting with "small ball" which is often linked to surer, lower risk strategy, but analytics have shown that bunting isn't really as reliable strategy (i.e., success rate isn't that high as people perceive), and even when it's successful, it doesn't lead to higher chance of scoring when considering you are handing out an out for it.

[Trackball]

Re: Found NEW BUNT Cheese! Smh. NEEDs TO BE PATCHED

I think it's more like sports analytics have shown that bunting is neither as successful nor easy as people used to think... Like a lot of people have associated bunting with "small ball" which is often linked to surer, lower risk strategy, but analytics have shown that bunting isn't really as reliable strategy (i.e., success rate isn't that high as people perceive), and even when it's successful, it doesn't lead to higher chance of scoring when considering you are handing out an out for it.

Yeah, basically, you actually score more runs with a man on first and no outs than you do with a man on second and one out.

Like the great (and loud) Earl Weaver said, "Your most precious possessions are your 27 outs."

Bunting shouldn't leave the game completely, but it should only be done in VERY specific circumstances, like if it's 1-1 or 1-0 in the ninth or later. When you're really, really desperate for a run, and that one run can alter the outcome of a game.

I hate seeing pitchers bunt almost as much as I hate the designated hitter.
It's trading something you CAN'T replace (an out) for something you CAN replace (90 feet of baserunning).

EDIT: Forgot about drag bunts meant for beating shifts. Those are also totally fine.

[DeJohn11]

Re: Found NEW BUNT Cheese! Smh. NEEDs TO BE PATCHED

Yeah, basically, you actually score more runs with a man on first and no outs than you do with a man on second and one out.

Like the great (and loud) Earl Weaver said, "Your most precious possessions are your 27 outs."

Bunting shouldn't leave the game completely, but it should only be done in VERY specific circumstances, like if it's 1-1 or 1-0 in the ninth or later. When you're really, really desperate for a run, and that one run can alter the outcome of a game.

I hate seeing pitchers bunt almost as much as I hate the designated hitter.
It's trading something you CAN'T replace (an out) for something you CAN replace (90 feet of baserunning).

EDIT: Forgot about drag bunts meant for beating shifts. Those are also totally fine.

I think the reasons pitchers bunt more often than not in that situation is to avoid double plays... which to your logic is twice as bad as a sac bunt. So, IMO its gotten to be more of avoiding 2 outs by giving them only 1. Getting a guy in scoring position is more icing on the cake than anything.

[Razeart2422]

Re: Found NEW BUNT Cheese! Smh. NEEDs TO BE PATCHED

I cant believe they didnt try and bunt with every player for 3 games to see what would happen before they released the game. The nerve of these guys lol.

This seems like such an over zealous attempt at finding something wrong with a game. This isnt even near as bad as money plays in Madden, money goals in NHL because at least against a human opponent its almost a complete non issue. Dont play the shift. I totally understand that bunting isnt balanced that well and should be looked into but you decided to do an experiment with horrible parameters to discover a flaw that can be solved by simple self control. The only opponent this works on is the CPU. Dont do it.
There are plenty of issues with this game that need to be fixed before this.

The fact that they put something in the game and don't test it. Is just stupid. Don't get me wrong I love MLB the Show. I am just pointing out something that should have been fixed years ago.

Low rated bunters should be missing the ball way more often and fouling it.

Right now as the game stands. There is no differentiation between a 20 rated bunter and a 90 rated bunter. They can both put the ball in play at the same rate.

They fixed Bunting this year in that you are not able to just bunt and get on base very often.

They have to make low rated bunters miss way more often. And leave the higher rated bunters as is.

[Bard]

Re: Found NEW BUNT Cheese! Smh. NEEDs TO BE PATCHED

Little side note.

Aren't you the guy (Razeart) that complains about the WWE games? Reversals are too easy?

It just sounds like you try to find a flaw in any game, which isn't even that bad, and make a huge deal out of it. I've seen this in two different forums now from you, and it honestly seems you like to complain about video games being too easy in a very specific area.

Who honestly is going to bunt with every hitter in a game? Is it strategy to bunt with Headley every time in the shift? It sure is. I would every time, and one day maybe the AI will have the ability to adjust accordingly, but we aren't there yet. Which is okay!

Just lay down house rules for yourself, it is a video game afterall.

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[Razeart2422]

Re: Found NEW BUNT Cheese! Smh. NEEDs TO BE PATCHED

Little side note.

Aren't you the guy (Razeart) that complains about the WWE games? Reversals are too easy?

It just sounds like you try to find a flaw in any game, which isn't even that bad, and make a huge deal out of it. I've seen this in two different forums now from you, and it honestly seems you like to complain about video games being too easy in a very specific area.

Who honestly is going to bunt with every hitter in a game? Is it strategy to bunt with Headley every time in the shift? It sure is. I would every time, and one day maybe the AI will have the ability to adjust accordingly, but we aren't there yet. Which is okay!

Just lay down house rules for yourself, it is a video game afterall.

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Lol. You have a great memory. Wwe 2k's reversals are too easy. I just want the developers to keep striving to make the game better. That's all. Didn't know that was a bad thing.

[BegBy]

Re: Found NEW BUNT Cheese! Smh. NEEDs TO BE PATCHED

Little side note.

Aren't you the guy (Razeart) that complains about the WWE games? Reversals are too easy?

It just sounds like you try to find a flaw in any game, which isn't even that bad, and make a huge deal out of it. I've seen this in two different forums now from you, and it honestly seems you like to complain about video games being too easy in a very specific area.

Who honestly is going to bunt with every hitter in a game? Is it strategy to bunt with Headley every time in the shift? It sure is. I would every time, and one day maybe the AI will have the ability to adjust accordingly, but we aren't there yet. Which is okay!

Just lay down house rules for yourself, it is a video game afterall.

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I think you'll find a lot of people complaining in several game threads. It's a website dedicated to sports games. A lot of sports video game enthusiasts play several games. They also complain/praise said titles.

I do. I absolutely crap on NBA 2k. I would crap on Madden too, but it's so bad I won't buy it.

The bunting in the game is weak sauce, and by now it should be better. Hard to argue that.

[kehlis]

Re: Found NEW BUNT Cheese! Smh. NEEDs TO BE PATCHED

A couple thoughts.

Those of you thinking you can jump in an MLB box and be able to start bunting are really being unrealistic but honestly that's not what this discussion is about so it really isn't relevant.

We're not talking about batters squaring around and dropping a perfect sac bunt.


We're talking about batters with low bunt ratings who are able to lay a perfect drag bunt down the line against an aggressive shift, not a square around and lay it down bunt. They need to get it past the pitcher to actually turn it into a hit.

It is pretty easy to do if you try it.


I will just say the best post was Nomo's who really lays out the greater problem which is the fact that the AI doesn't adjust to it.

The reason you don't see it happen IRL is because teams would adjust so the minimal gain a player would get out of it would result in adjustments later so they just try and beat the shift instead.