I want realistic stats, but not like this...

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  • fanofbaseball
    Rookie
    • Apr 2017
    • 65

    #1

    I want realistic stats, but not like this...

    I very much want a sim experience and was on the bandwagon for HR's to be put in check.

    My post patch stats are to my liking. However, the means by which those likeable stats are being produced is a miserable game play experience. I'm being rewarded when I should fail and failing when I should be rewarded.

    When I say "rewarded", I do not mean that I should receive a hit for every green center-dotted PCI placement, but rather that every green center-dotted PCI placement should produce a well struck baseball, hit or out. But it does not. Three games in row Asdrubal Cabrera softly flied out to CF on squared up pitches down the middle of the plate. Two games later, he hits an oppo bomb to win the game with late timing on a pitch down and in, which the patch was supposed to fix. I don't want a HR on that crap, it provides no satisfaction and I would rather lose. Likewise, it ruins the game experience when squared up pitches continually result in lazy fly-balls. And my franchise Jon Jay experience is far worse than Cabrera.

    Post patch, the ball physics don't align with the input. I'm experiencing excessive top-spin and seemingly squared up balls are resulting in ground balls and lazy fly-balls far more than line drives. The results seem to be completely indeterministic in relation to the input.

    2016 introduced "precision hitting", whereby we were supposed to be better rewarded and penalized for our successes and failures. While I felt "precision hitting" mostly amounted to marketing speak and was a fallacy, the changes were a significant improvement over 2015 whereby it was commonplace that green center-dotted PCI placement produced popups. This recent patch has taken us back to 2015.

    While even sliders couldn't completely tame the HR/scoring bonanza of the initial release, I would gladly take that experience over the current for which there isn't a slider adjustment.

    Other than deciding to swing or not swing, my input doesn't seem to have much impact on the results. Essentially, this patch has produced OOTP with animation and significantly increased time expenditure to get through a game. And that combination sucks.
  • nomo17k
    Permanently Banned
    • Feb 2011
    • 5735

    #2
    Re: I want realistic stats, but not like this...

    Are you talking about hitting online or offline?
    The Show CPU vs. CPU game stats: 2018,17,16,15,14,13,12,11

    Comment

    • fanofbaseball
      Rookie
      • Apr 2017
      • 65

      #3
      Re: I want realistic stats, but not like this...

      Originally posted by nomo17k
      Are you talking about hitting online or offline?
      I'm speaking to offline hitting with zone in Franchise, DD Conquest/Play CPU, and Play Now.

      Comment

      • underdog13
        MVP
        • Apr 2012
        • 3222

        #4
        Re: I want realistic stats, but not like this...

        Respectively disagree. The green/yellow conundrum was the same pre patches as well.
        PSN: Dalton1985
        Steam: Failure To Communicate

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        • CaseIH
          MVP
          • Sep 2013
          • 3945

          #5
          Re: I want realistic stats, but not like this...

          I use analog so I dont know about the PCI being green or whatever, but IMO hitting is fine, was pre patch and seems to be now for me anyway. There are times when I make good contact, or think I do, and its not being.

          Personally I didnt see too many Hr being hit either by me or the CPU. Granted Im sure most of you are better at hitting than me, my reaction time and reflexes just arent that good anymore. I still do a good job pitching, but hitting not so much, main reason I ended up giving in and going to dynamic mode it shows I pitch HOF, but aint much over rookie with hitting
          Everyone who exalts themselves will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted- Luke14-11

          Favorite teams:
          MLB- Reds/ and whoever is playing the Cubs
          NBA- Pacers
          NFL- Dolphins & Colts

          Comment

          • fanofbaseball
            Rookie
            • Apr 2017
            • 65

            #6
            Re: I want realistic stats, but not like this...

            Originally posted by underdog13
            Respectively disagree. The green/yellow conundrum was the same pre patches as well.
            Respectively, I question what specifically you might have to disagree with. You are correct the "green/yellow conundrum" did exists pre-patch. Had you stated it existed in previous revisions of this game you would have been even more correct. But even had you stated that, given my initial statements were specifically directed toward 2017 patches and that, at least at a high level, I referenced a lineage of changes in the previous two revisions of this game, I fail to recognize what possible basis you might have to disagree. Please do elaborate, as I'm currently of the belief that you provided a drive-by response without even entertaining the possibility that my initial statements had some merit.

            Comment

            • nomo17k
              Permanently Banned
              • Feb 2011
              • 5735

              #7
              Re: I want realistic stats, but not like this...

              So, one thing about this "green/yellow conundrum" is that the context is the kind of issue people over at TheShowNation forums are talking about, often in the context of online hitting, isn't it?

              The color of PCI in the swing feedback merely means red is too early/late, yellow is early/late, and green is good... IIRC.

              Not that I agree with the current balance of power generated on pull vs. away swing (I think power generation should be more lopsided toward pull... you shouldn't be consistently be able to go away trying to go for the fences IMO)..., but I think the game means to produce more solid hit when you are slightly/just late when you are swinging away, so the fact that you can hit solidly away with yellow timing, to some extent, is by design I think.
              The Show CPU vs. CPU game stats: 2018,17,16,15,14,13,12,11

              Comment

              • underdog13
                MVP
                • Apr 2012
                • 3222

                #8
                Re: I want realistic stats, but not like this...

                Originally posted by fanofbaseball
                Respectively, I question what specifically you might have to disagree with. You are correct the "green/yellow conundrum" did exists pre-patch. Had you stated it existed in previous revisions of this game you would have been even more correct. But even had you stated that, given my initial statements were specifically directed toward 2017 patches and that, at least at a high level, I referenced a lineage of changes in the previous two revisions of this game, I fail to recognize what possible basis you might have to disagree. Please do elaborate, as I'm currently of the belief that you provided a drive-by response without even entertaining the possibility that my initial statements had some merit.
                Ok I'll try to clarify my statement.

                There was an issue with too much power generated on hits that seemed to not have deserved that sort of power, and an issue of inconsistencies between yellow swings and green swings.

                Those could be intertwined or separate based on your personal opinion.

                I feel patch 1.0.4 help elevate the first issue and not so much the second one.

                I also feel like hitting in 16 with zone was better and smoother even without the ball physics.

                If I have your opinion correct you believe that hitting, especially inconsistent results with green/yellow swings is worse after this patch, correct?
                PSN: Dalton1985
                Steam: Failure To Communicate

                Comment

                • nomo17k
                  Permanently Banned
                  • Feb 2011
                  • 5735

                  #9
                  Re: I want realistic stats, but not like this...

                  One thing I'd kind of agree with this year's game is that the feel for hitting has changed slightly... I wouldn't use the word "off" yet since that then has to assume that hitting has been "just right" in prior iterations of the game.

                  I think the pre-patch wacky ball physics with too much spin and HR power was simply an oversight and due to lack of proper QA and testing, so let's just keep that out of consideration...

                  I think the biggest change in the feel might be coming from that fact that this year's game has vastly greater hit variety than previous iterations, and that's mostly by the fact that the game now has greater "poor hit" variety, like flares and soft line drives/fly balls, more than say MLB 16 and prior. Before 15/16, I think the game really struggled to produce those poorly batted balls (hence lack of flares falling in between in/outfielders).

                  But then some of those solid hits in previous iterations of the game now actually translates into more softly hit kind, so sometimes I feel the ball doesn't carry as much as I remember feeling in the previous iterations of the game.

                  That may be a trade off for the game finally being able to reproduce certain kinds of hits that used to be entirely missing from the game.

                  I still need to get in more hitting to see if I end up feeling "off", but given the amount of changes in the new game, I think some adjustments are expected.
                  The Show CPU vs. CPU game stats: 2018,17,16,15,14,13,12,11

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                  • fanofbaseball
                    Rookie
                    • Apr 2017
                    • 65

                    #10
                    Re: I want realistic stats, but not like this...

                    Originally posted by nomo17k
                    So, one thing about this "green/yellow conundrum" is that the context is the kind of issue people over at TheShowNation forums are talking about, often in the context of online hitting, isn't it?

                    The color of PCI in the swing feedback merely means red is too early/late, yellow is early/late, and green is good... IIRC.

                    Not that I agree with the current balance of power generated on pull vs. away swing (I think power generation should be more lopsided toward pull... you shouldn't be consistently be able to go away trying to go for the fences IMO)..., but I think the game means to produce more solid hit when you are slightly/just late when you are swinging away, so the fact that you can hit solidly away with yellow timing, to some extent, is by design I think.
                    Yes, theshownation crowd has been harping on the yellow/green issue and most seem to be coming from an online standpoint. I don't play online. At a surface level, there appears to be overlap between my thoughts and theirs. Their feedback seems to mostly be related to insufficient offensive production post-patch and my feedback is that there is sufficient offensive production post-patch but I don't like how that production is occurring.

                    Making assumptions, I believe the shownation crowd highly enjoyed the offensive production of the initial release and is upset that some of that offense has gone away.

                    In some aspects I also really enjoyed the initial release, for different but overlapping reasons. The initial release provided more accurate feedback to user input than any previous releases. The accuracy was too forgiving and needed to be adjusted. However, I don't like how it was accomplished. I have no issues with my stats. My issue is how my stats are now being compiled, that being my stats are being manufactured by the game rather than being a result of my input. I believe the excessive HR issue to mostly be a CPU algorithm problem of leaving too many pitches over the plate. That issue has clearly been patched, but along with it the hitting input seems to have gone back to 2015, whereby zone user input takes a complete back seat to attributes. I want attributes to play a role, but they shouldn't completely usurp my input, which they appear to be doing. There was a middle ground between the initial release and the patch results. SDS failed to find the middle ground.

                    Comment

                    • Nolove626
                      Banned
                      • Nov 2012
                      • 150

                      #11
                      Re: I want realistic stats, but not like this...

                      Originally posted by nomo17k
                      So, one thing about this "green/yellow conundrum" is that the context is the kind of issue people over at TheShowNation forums are talking about, often in the context of online hitting, isn't it?

                      The color of PCI in the swing feedback merely means red is too early/late, yellow is early/late, and green is good... IIRC.

                      Not that I agree with the current balance of power generated on pull vs. away swing (I think power generation should be more lopsided toward pull... you shouldn't be consistently be able to go away trying to go for the fences IMO)..., but I think the game means to produce more solid hit when you are slightly/just late when you are swinging away, so the fact that you can hit solidly away with yellow timing, to some extent, is by design I think.
                      Very well said. Pull hits should generate consistent harder hit balls. Unfortunately, since the patch this is just not the case.

                      Comment

                      • nomo17k
                        Permanently Banned
                        • Feb 2011
                        • 5735

                        #12
                        Re: I want realistic stats, but not like this...

                        Originally posted by Nolove626
                        Very well said. Pull hits should generate consistent harder hit balls. Unfortunately, since the patch this is just not the case.
                        I don't actually think the patch(es) has anything to do with the apparent changes some people are feeling about the hitting.... I think it's just power (i.e., mostly exit velocity of balls off the bat), but since it got kinda nerfed across the board, some people feel that everything about the offense has been nerfed.

                        The patch v1.04 did nerf power, but I actually doubt any other aspect of hitting has been changed that much, if at all (in terms of CPU offense, I only needed to increase Power slider by one to bring offense to the pre-patch level... nothing else).

                        I cannot speak much about the inside pitches hit away for HRs... I've seen some videos on YouTube but the games on Diamond Dynasty with all these hitters big PCI really makes it hard to see if the issue is the game or DD... But before the patch, almost all balls hit in the air had extended hang time (due to too much backspin), so I could imagine routine fly balls hit away could have easily gone over the fence.

                        But honestly I think pre-patch power was just too much.
                        The Show CPU vs. CPU game stats: 2018,17,16,15,14,13,12,11

                        Comment

                        • Nolove626
                          Banned
                          • Nov 2012
                          • 150

                          #13
                          Re: I want realistic stats, but not like this...

                          Originally posted by nomo17k
                          I don't actually think the patch(es) has anything to do with the apparent changes some people are feeling about the hitting.... I think it's just power (i.e., mostly exit velocity of balls off the bat), but since it got kinda nerfed across the board, some people feel that everything about the offense has been nerfed.

                          The patch v1.04 did nerf power, but I actually doubt any other aspect of hitting has been changed that much, if at all (in terms of CPU offense, I only needed to increase Power slider by one to bring offense to the pre-patch level... nothing else).

                          I cannot speak much about the inside pitches hit away for HRs... I've seen some videos on YouTube but the games on Diamond Dynasty with all these hitters big PCI really makes it hard to see if the issue is the game or DD... But before the patch, almost all balls hit in the air had extended hang time (due to too much backspin), so I could imagine routine fly balls hit away could have easily gone over the fence.

                          But honestly I think pre-patch power was just too much.
                          Prior to 1.04 I was able to pull balls on the inside with good timing. Early timing I was fouling them as should be. Post patch anything pull influenced is either foul or weekly hit. This leads me to believe 1.04 is causing the issue. I did however increase human timing to 6 and solid contact to 6 which has somewhat calmed the issue. But if it anywhere near the black or a paint pitch forget it, it's going foul regardless of good timing.

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                          • nomo17k
                            Permanently Banned
                            • Feb 2011
                            • 5735

                            #14
                            Re: I want realistic stats, but not like this...

                            Originally posted by Nolove626
                            Prior to 1.04 I was able to pull balls on the inside with good timing. Early timing I was fouling them as should be. Post patch anything pull influenced is either foul or weekly hit. This leads me to believe 1.04 is causing the issue. I did however increase human timing to 6 and solid contact to 6 which has somewhat calmed the issue. But if it anywhere near the black or a paint pitch forget it, it's going foul regardless of good timing.
                            Which hitting interface are you using?
                            The Show CPU vs. CPU game stats: 2018,17,16,15,14,13,12,11

                            Comment

                            • Nolove626
                              Banned
                              • Nov 2012
                              • 150

                              #15
                              Re: I want realistic stats, but not like this...

                              Originally posted by nomo17k
                              Which hitting interface are you using?
                              I was using directional. But swing influence doesn't seem to be working this year so I switch to zone recticle

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