Hitting: I Think I Just Made a Huge Discovery!?

[Shergie51]

I had to share this with everyone because i know alot of us have troubles with hitting regardless of what style of hitting you use or sliders.

After hitting an opposite field grounder (being supposedly late on a pitch) i went and checked the relay cuz i didnt believe it. (I had it on DIRECTIONAL by the way)

Rather than me post videos, just do this yourself to see what im talking about...

So watching the replay the stride part is automatic and i just press the button to swing. There is a slight gap (split seconds in which the batter completely freezes) that doesent seem to connect the swing and the stride. Since the stride is automatic and if i didnt swing the batter would finish through his stride by putting his foot back on the ground, wouldn't this mean that the pause is a result of me pressing the button to swing?

Meaning its almost like lag in the line from me pressing the button to him swinging. Its clear to me that The first thing that happens when you press the button to hit is there is a split second gap/lag/glitch that does not connect the stride and the follow-through and throws everything off.

Now that by itself would not prove or mean anything but it is the next part that made me feel like I discovered something, although I do not know what.

I switched hitting over to pure analog to see if that same error connecting the stride and follow-through would still exist if I manually controlled the stride as well.

There was no gap! Now I know I should've probably kept on testing this theory to make sure it's true, but if so wouldn't this be huge?

I feel like most people probably use the button input when swinging right? So I think people have adjusted their swing to compensate for this, and even though they might be good hitters, this is why sometimes things just don't feel right.

I posted this in such a way that I hope someone who is more knowledgeable than me will take this idea and go further with it, as I am not an expert on designing video games or knowing how they work.

It's funny because I never had a problem with hitting before and I used pure analog.

However i am on disability for a severe nerve disease that primarily affects my hands and i switched to buttons because sometimes it hurts too much to use pure analog.

I have to hold the controller with one hand and use the other hand to swing the bat, whereas on buttons i dont have to actually grab and hold the controller and pressing down on a button is a lot less physically stressful to perform than grabbing/holding with one hand and grabbing/holding with The other hand while going down and then up quickly with the thumb.

Anyways to note: i was using M.Cabrera (stance,stride,follow-through) and as always I was playing off-line.



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[RockPowderDownLoL]

Re: Hitting: I Think I Just Made a Huge Discovery!?

refer to my posts or posts on theshownation: saskatcheWHAT I have said this in more ways than one for the past year at least. sorry to hear about your current condition btw. i personally assume real human kinetics are part of this game which is why i use zone plus analog because with buttons sometimes the batter either strides too early or too late, either causing his momentum to get their too early or too late(off balance), respectively.

[ggsimmonds]

Re: Hitting: I Think I Just Made a Huge Discovery!?

I thought this was well known ever since they added analog hitting? I briefly tried it years ago and remember you have to pull back on the stick for your stride, while its automatic on button hitting.

Its one of the pros to using analog hitting because it allows for better timing or more "natural" swinging.

[bcruise]

Re: Hitting: I Think I Just Made a Huge Discovery!?

The analog function for the stride timing has no effect - it's only visual. You need to at least pull back if you're using "Stride" Analog Type (as opposed to "flick), but that's it - timing doesn't matter. It just looks like a really wonky swing if you don't time it at least relatively close, but it'll still have the same power behind it.

Years ago it DID have an effect (and the timing was shown in the swing analysis, and you could see your PCI visibly shrink/get bigger on poor/perfect timing respectively). But it probably went underused, and was taken out of the game.

[punx317]

Re: Hitting: I Think I Just Made a Huge Discovery!?

I had to share this with everyone because i know alot of us have troubles with hitting regardless of what style of hitting you use or sliders.

After hitting an opposite field grounder (being supposedly late on a pitch) i went and checked the relay cuz i didnt believe it. (I had it on DIRECTIONAL by the way)

Rather than me post videos, just do this yourself to see what im talking about...

So watching the replay the stride part is automatic and i just press the button to swing. There is a slight gap (split seconds in which the batter completely freezes) that doesent seem to connect the swing and the stride. Since the stride is automatic and if i didnt swing the batter would finish through his stride by putting his foot back on the ground, wouldn't this mean that the pause is a result of me pressing the button to swing?

Meaning its almost like lag in the line from me pressing the button to him swinging. Its clear to me that The first thing that happens when you press the button to hit is there is a split second gap/lag/glitch that does not connect the stride and the follow-through and throws everything off.

Now that by itself would not prove or mean anything but it is the next part that made me feel like I discovered something, although I do not know what.

I switched hitting over to pure analog to see if that same error connecting the stride and follow-through would still exist if I manually controlled the stride as well.

There was no gap! Now I know I should've probably kept on testing this theory to make sure it's true, but if so wouldn't this be huge?

I feel like most people probably use the button input when swinging right? So I think people have adjusted their swing to compensate for this, and even though they might be good hitters, this is why sometimes things just don't feel right.

I posted this in such a way that I hope someone who is more knowledgeable than me will take this idea and go further with it, as I am not an expert on designing video games or knowing how they work.

It's funny because I never had a problem with hitting before and I used pure analog.

However i am on disability for a severe nerve disease that primarily affects my hands and i switched to buttons because sometimes it hurts too much to use pure analog.

I have to hold the controller with one hand and use the other hand to swing the bat, whereas on buttons i dont have to actually grab and hold the controller and pressing down on a button is a lot less physically stressful to perform than grabbing/holding with one hand and grabbing/holding with The other hand while going down and then up quickly with the thumb.

Anyways to note: i was using M.Cabrera (stance,stride,follow-through) and as always I was playing off-line.



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Great write up bro I'm checking it out now but just wanted to say switched to buttons as well because of a neurological condition called benign essential tremor. Do you use meter pitching? I've always used analog but this year is proving to be the last using analog pitching as the shaking is getting to bad. Also zone hitting is on its last leg

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[bobloblah1980]

Re: Hitting: I Think I Just Made a Huge Discovery!?

I've used Analog hitting forever and I've always believed the timing window seems to be a little off to me. I've always had to bump it up to 6 or 7 depending on the year of the gamr

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[RockPowderDownLoL]

Re: Hitting: I Think I Just Made a Huge Discovery!?

The analog function for the stride timing has no effect - it's only visual. You need to at least pull back if you're using "Stride" Analog Type (as opposed to "flick), but that's it - timing doesn't matter. It just looks like a really wonky swing if you don't time it at least relatively close, but it'll still have the same power behind it.

Years ago it DID have an effect (and the timing was shown in the swing analysis, and you could see your PCI visibly shrink/get bigger on poor/perfect timing respectively). But it probably went underused, and was taken out of the game.

haha this is not true at all and it is funny how confident you are about it. every batter has a different time when to stride. you really got to know how to understand how an actual stride works to understand what each player's timing is. go to the batting cages and replicate any mlb players stride and you will understand stride timing.

[Steven78]

Re: Hitting: I Think I Just Made a Huge Discovery!?

haha this is not true at all and it is funny how confident you are about it. every batter has a different time when to stride. you really got to know how to understand how an actual stride works to understand what each player's timing is. go to the batting cages and replicate any mlb players stride and you will understand stride timing.

Bcruise is 100% correct.

I believe the devs even confirmed it two or so years ago.

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[bcruise]

Re: Hitting: I Think I Just Made a Huge Discovery!?

Bcruise is 100% correct.

I believe the devs even confirmed it two or so years ago.

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I had hoped I'd be able to find a dev quote but...no luck. I wouldn't have stated that quite so matter-of-factly if I thought I couldn't find one.

Here's some history though, and it explains why I believe timing doesn't matter anymore for stride:

Prior to MLB '15 (I forget how many years it existed), Stride existed as a component of Pure Analog Hitting, complete with its own section in the swing analysis window, real-time PCI feedback, and even a slider to control the difficulty of the stride timing. The PCI feedback for this in particular was very unique - it showed the circle actually gradually expanding on screen if you had good timing - not just immediately frame-snapping to a larger size. This system was removed in MLB '15, leaving only the forward "flick" option for that year. In '16 it was brought back, but only as an analog option alongside "flick". None of what I described above returned to the game, however - no slider, no pci feedback, no swing analysis. It's simply not the same system that was in the game before.

...And, then there's the fact that I can hit tape measure HR's with good contact if I'm holding the stride even before the pitcher's motion begins. You simply couldn't do that with the old system.

You are, of course, free to believe whatever you want. I actually like trying to time the stride so it looks like a smooth swing, even if I'm certain that it doesn't matter. Pure Analog is my second hitting option behind Zone, when I feel like letting the AI have more say in the outcome.

[Shergie51]

Hitting: I Think I Just Made a Huge Discovery!?

I think some of yall are missing my point. Stride has everything to do with timing for me personally only because i try and realistically replicate the proper stride timing of when to pull down (not as pitcher releases but slightly before) and when to push up to get that good feeling down then up motion. If you are doing it this way then of course it affects your actual user timing.

However, this has nothing at all to do with what my post is about. I think i understand the confusion so let me explain it like this:

Both sides are technically correct, it just depends on how you stride. Yes i do believe if you just hold back and preload the stride the whole time (or simply flick) the hit would be the same (stride being purely vidual)...and since simply flicking up isnt much different than pressing a button there would seem to be no difference in timing.

However, even simply using this example, what im saying is there is no "hitch" or lag error when using analog like there is when using buttons.

If this is true it could lead to a whole host of problems (like different pause/hitch times in different batters/stances) and could lead to why, at least for me, sometimes the results when hitting dont match on the screen with what i feel really happened.

Ex: sometimes i check the replay cuz in my mind i could swear there was no way i was late on a pitch but somehow i hit it waaay foul to the ooposite field.

I hate that the discussion went down that path cuz stride timing is irrelevant to what im saying.

Also to who asked, i REFUSE to do anything other than pure analog pitching. Pitching is my favorite thing to do and it feels so realistic using pure analog. In fact, i more times than not i will just control the pitching and i will only hit with one particular guy in the lineup that day. I will go to quick manage for batting. Yea, it can be painful pitching with my hands. You should see all the homemade gadgets i use to be able to hold the controller stable in the right angle so i can pitch effectively.lol

Anyway, thanks to everyone that contributed to this post


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[RockPowderDownLoL]

Re: Hitting: I Think I Just Made a Huge Discovery!?

i don't think they can include swing analysis feedback for the stride because it varies for a variety of reasons. it was very confusing in '14. 16 was when i noticed that my stride had to be timed differently for different pitches and pitchers. different stride times yield different results. if u try to start your stride late with ryon healy its impossible to drive a high fastball up the middle let alone fair . i've experimented quite extensively with a variety of hitters and pitchers and whether the devs confirm it either way i wouldn't believe them because i don't think they even use the stride analog function. they could always confirm it again. they do read the forums here...

[El_MaYiMbE]

Re: Hitting: I Think I Just Made a Huge Discovery!?

I noticed what the OP has stated in the past. It seems like when you use a hitting method that does not take stride into account, it causes late swings to have a "hiccup". The devs tried to say that being late in the game isn't always a bad swing that at times it represents staying inside the ball. However, the animations do not reflect that...and neither do the results...at least not consistently enough.

I understand why it happens, but it does not happen to the CPU and they still hit balls the other way.

Hitting in this game has been off since I first started playing the franchise in '08 or '09. Over the years it has progressively gotten better, but it still doesn't feel "real".

I am hoping they scrap the hitting engine soon.
Note: I don't mean ball physics (it needs improvement but much better over the years). I mean the logic behind what constitutes a good or bad hit.

When batting in the game, regardless of which hitting method you are using, the hitter doesn't change the path of the barrel of the bat. In the game, if you want to hit an inside pitch you need to swing earlier to make the barrel meet the ball, when you want to hit an outside pitch you swing later to wait and have the barrel meet the ball....

In real life that is only part of it...hitters extend or tuck hands in depending on pitch location too.
I feel that in The Show its the same swing no matter what, and the bat's path to the ball is strictly based on timing.

I feel the only way to hit ball the other way is to be late on a pitch.
But tucking hands in, and consciously going with the pitch, and driving it the other way, with perfect timing, in real life...is how most opposite field hits are made. In real life you don't have to be late to hit ball the other way, or early to pull.

I feel thats the biggest issue with hitting.