Statistics/scoring management

[Blzer]

Two cases the game has gotten wrong in the past game I played:

1) Bases loaded, two outs. Passed ball gets by the catcher, run scores. Unearned run, I understand that. Same batter later draws a walk. Run should become earned, but never does in-game, even by the end of the inning. That runner "would have scored" as a result of that walk.

2) Runner on first base attempts to steal second. Throw to second base is right on target and would have nabbed the runner by plenty. Ball pops off the shortstop's glove, and the runner makes it safely. There are only two possible ways to score this: stolen base or E6 (field). I believe the latter would have been the right call. The game scored it an E2 (throw). A catcher cannot get a throwing error on this play, much like 2B/SS not getting a throwing error trying to turn a double play and overthrowing the ball to 1B.

I'm not registered to SCEA's forums so I'm not exactly bug-reporting right now, unless there is a form you can enter it in there without registering. Just thought I'd throw these out there, and see what other instances you all have noticed with this.

[gp005]

Re: Statistics/scoring management

playing as the pitcher.. first batter singles (altuve), 2nd batter strike out, 3rd batter hits a ground ball which Tulo makes an error E6, next batter singles, altuve scores, followed by a double Correa scores.... both runs are earned
Should those runs be earned? it was an easy DP that should have ended the inning

[NDAlum]

Re: Statistics/scoring management

I don't believe you can assume a double play

[Blzer]

Re: Statistics/scoring management

playing as the pitcher.. first batter singles (altuve), 2nd batter strike out, 3rd batter hits a ground ball which Tulo makes an error E6, next batter singles, altuve scores, followed by a double Correa scores.... both runs are earned
Should those runs be earned? it was an easy DP that should have ended the inning

1) Was it a fielding error, or a throwing error?
2a) Did the third batter advance to second on said error?
2b) Was the double certain to score a runner had he been on first base?

If #1 is the case, there are definitely unearned runs in play. If 2a is YES and 2b is NO, you're supposed to give the pitcher the benefit of the doubt, in which case the third batter should also be an unearned run if you ultimately completed that inning without hassle.

[gp005]

Re: Statistics/scoring management

1) Was it a fielding error, or a throwing error?
2a) Did the third batter advance to second on said error?
2b) Was the double certain to score a runner had he been on first base?

If #1 is the case, there are definitely unearned runs in play. If 2a is YES and 2b is NO, you're supposed to give the pitcher the benefit of the doubt, in which case the third batter should also be an unearned run if you ultimately completed that inning without hassle.

it was a fielding error... right at the defender

[phantomshark]

Re: Statistics/scoring management

it was a fielding error... right at the defender

Runs are earned. You can only assume 1 out. Only way runs would be unearned is if they got the first out and you had a throwing error attempting to complete the DP, then the out you are assuming would be the 2nd out of the DP.

[Blzer]

Re: Statistics/scoring management

Runs are earned. You can only assume 1 out. Only way runs would be unearned is if they got the first out and you had a throwing error attempting to complete the DP, then the out you are assuming would be the 2nd out of the DP.

Yes, but if the runner that made it to second base made it safely because of the fielding error, his run will be unearned regardless of what happens after the fact, because he shouldn't be on base. Forget the double play, I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about the runner going to second base.

[gp005]

Re: Statistics/scoring management

Yes, but if the runner that made it to second base made it safely because of the fielding error, his run will be unearned regardless of what happens after the fact, because he shouldn't be on base. Forget the double play, I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about the runner going to second base.

thats exactly what i thought...

[Jr.]

Re: Statistics/scoring management

playing as the pitcher.. first batter singles (altuve), 2nd batter strike out, 3rd batter hits a ground ball which Tulo makes an error E6, next batter singles, altuve scores, followed by a double Correa scores.... both runs are earned
Should those runs be earned? it was an easy DP that should have ended the inning

it was a fielding error... right at the defender

Altuve's run is unearned, but the runner on 1st is an earned run because you don't assume a DP, no matter how routine it seems.

[gp005]

Re: Statistics/scoring management

thanks.. i was more certain of the 1st run being unearned... but this makes sense Jr.

[Blzer]

Re: Statistics/scoring management

Altuve's run is unearned, but the runner on 1st is an earned run because you don't assume a DP, no matter how routine it seems.

Unless a "third out" is made prior to that runner on 1st scoring. Like say the next batter strikes out, then that runner scores later. In that case, it would be unearned, as well as every other run following for the rest of that inning.

[Jr.]

Re: Statistics/scoring management

Unless a "third out" is made prior to that runner on 1st scoring. Like say the next batter strikes out, then that runner scores later. In that case, it would be unearned, as well as every other run following for the rest of that inning.

That would be a completely different situation.

[coach422001]

Re: Statistics/scoring management

Altuve's run is unearned, but the runner on 1st is an earned run because you don't assume a DP, no matter how routine it seems.

But don't you have to get 'an out' to not assume you'd get 2? Altuve advanced on the error and Correa reached on same error. If Tulo got the out at second but his bobble cost him the double play then I say Correa's run is earned. Likewise, if he threw Correa out, then Altuve advances on the fielder's choice. But if you get nobody at all, wouldn't both runs then be unearned?
But clearly from the OP they both shouldn't be 'earned'.

[Blzer]

Re: Statistics/scoring management

But don't you have to get 'an out' to not assume you'd get 2? Altuve advanced on the error and Correa reached on same error. If Tulo got the out at second but his bobble cost him the double play then I say Correa's run is earned. Likewise, if he threw Correa out, then Altuve advances on the fielder's choice. But if you get nobody at all, wouldn't both runs then be unearned?
But clearly from the OP they both shouldn't be 'earned'.

Nope, double play is never assumed unless you're referring to a fielding error from the player receiving the ball at first base (likely the first baseman, or the pitcher). Otherwise, a double play is considered to be a play that requires more than ordinary effort, and the batter-runner will never assume to be doubled up on any play that doesn't have a good throw beat him. This is all the same thing for a stolen base.

As I mentioned before, the only way that runner becomes unearned is if there is an out/error that is made which would have been the "third out" of the inning, and he subsequently scores on that play or a play afterward. He could also become unearned if he advances to second base on the same play that was made attempting to complete the double play but is halted by an error, and he scores on a later hit that would not have scored him from first base.

For example, say Tulo attempts to turn the DP and wings his throw to 1B, and the runner advances to second base as a result. There is no throwing error for the batter-runner reaching first base, but that throw does charge Tulo with an error because the runner made it to second base as a result of the throw. Now, if the next batter singles and scores the runner, that will be unearned because the runner would only be assumed to reach second or third base on that hit. It could later become earned (see my OP example with the base on balls), but for the time being it wouldn't be marked as such.

This kind of thing must be hellish to program in-game.

[Jr.]

Re: Statistics/scoring management

But don't you have to get 'an out' to not assume you'd get 2? Altuve advanced on the error and Correa reached on same error.

You can never assume the 2nd out of a double play, so even if there is an error on the 1st out, the assumption is a fielder's choice with the batter safe at 1st. So the scoring for Correa's AB is just a FC 6-4/4-6 or whatever. The error is only given for Altuve advancing to 2B.

If Tulo got the out at second but his bobble cost him the double play then I say Correa's run is earned. Likewise, if he threw Correa out, then Altuve advances on the fielder's choice.

This isn't a fielder's choice. Fielder's choice is scored when the defense attempts to get an out on a runner that is already on base (thus they chose to try to get that runner out) rather than the assumed out on the batter.